Why do you accept this mess?

[Battlefury]

I would like to know your opinion about the state of acceptance due to specific points:

1. Prices increasing with each new release.

2. Rules bloated. It sometimes takes more than 4 books / releases to have all of the rules together.

3. Power level increasing with new releases, leaving older armies behind.

4. GW basically neglecting certain factions, wich just don't get anything new and up to date.

5. Models being locked behind paywalls, or big box sets, for a long period of time.

6. FAQ debacle.

7. Massive FOMO


Why do you accept this mess? Looking for individual opinions here.

cheers///

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Battlefury

[AaronWilson]

I guess my answer is I don't? I've not bought anything new in a long time, I play casually with local people and we just play what we want, roll some dice and have a laugh.

If people aren't happy with the game they probably shouldn't continue to buy models / books / fund the process. 

[Marcvs]

32 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

I would like to know you opinion about the state of acceptance due to specific points:

1. Prices increasing with each new release.

2. Rules bloated. It sometimes takes more than 4 ooks / releases to have all of the rules together.

3. Power level increasing with new releases, leaving older armies behind.

4. GW basically neglecting certain factions, wich just don't get anything new and up to date.

5. Models being locked behind paywalls, or big box sets, for a long period of time.

6. FAQ debacle.

7. Massive FOMO


Why do you accept this mess? Looking for individual opinions here.

cheers///

 

Because I like fantasy, I like miniature wargaming and Age of Sigmar is the game that is played at my club which covers this. Additionally, I have changed countries and cities a lot in my life and I believe I have a higher chance of being able to keep playing it if/when I move somehwere else. Also, I haven't seen alternatives which I would rather play.

As for the specific points:

1 - It's still acceptable for my hobby budget. Further: the area where I live and play is more and more accepting of 3rd party models even in tournaments so this can be mitigated.

2- doesn't bother me too much

3- This is very hard to prove. Are Bonesplitterz or Kruelboyz good because they are a new release?

4- Yeah, this is not great. Individually, I am lucky I didn't pick these armies

5- ****** move. Again largely mitigated by the acceptance for 3rd party models in my area.

6- All in all, I would call it more of a "yawn" than a debacle.

7- I try to keep my impulses in check. I only buy miniatures for the one (and a half, cause coalition) armies that I play and I only buy stuff for which I have a specific list in mind.

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

I don't. I've bought a 3D printer and am moving to OnePageRules as my system of choice. I buy the AoS models I like so as to maintain visual cohesion for my models, I pick up the paints I need when Army Painter and Vallejo can't offer me a more accurate color or better mix, and I follow the story of my favorite factions, but at this point, AoS is more something that I opt into from time to time as part of a wider wargaming hobby than a full hobby in and of itself.

[Gitzdee]

Because i am having fun.

Edit: This is my answer to all your questions. If it starts getting to the point that its not worth it for me because i stop having fun i need to find something else to spend my time on.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Iksdee

[novakai]

Well 2 is only happening in 40K at the moment so it doesn’t really affect AoS 

3 is as well but it TBD for this AoS cycle

4 is the the only one I care about but it with how the community obsession with rule update we kind of deserve to be in this position so eh

5. they have been doing a bit better but it easy to just proxy the hero most of the time before they get release separately

6. I have no exceptation of update and FAQ so whatever

1 and 7. Fiscal responsibility it work lol
 

[Kaleb Daark]

1 hour ago, Battlefury said:

I would like to know you opinion about the state of acceptance due to specific points:

1. Prices increasing with each new release.

2. Rules bloated. It sometimes takes more than 4 ooks / releases to have all of the rules together.

3. Power level increasing with new releases, leaving older armies behind.

4. GW basically neglecting certain factions, wich just don't get anything new and up to date.

5. Models being locked behind paywalls, or big box sets, for a long period of time.

6. FAQ debacle.

7. Massive FOMO


Why do you accept this mess? Looking for individual opinions here.

cheers///

 

 

The answer to any thread like this is always a resounding no, we've all got our misgivings,  but unless you're the majority shareholder of GW stock your belly aching is going to fall on deaf ears as far as the mothership ar concerned.

As always with things like this, you have to vote with your wallet and your feet.

Any business will just look at profits. If they fall consistently then and only then questions are asked.

If you keep spending irrespective of your misgivings then nothing will change.

If you don't like it don't spend.  It's harsh to say but it's what GW would say to you.  Everything you're talking about is the direction they obviously want to go in and all the while the money is dropping into the bank they really are fine with that path.

It's just the way it is. 

Sadly threads like this don't serve anything other than to give you three pages of angry and a mod telling you to can it and lock it up at the end of it.

[Kadeton]

AoS is primarily my "don't take it seriously" game, which I play when I just want to spend an evening pushing models, chucking dice and cracking jokes with a friend. I also play competitively, but mainly because friends drag me along to events. As such:

1. Price increases don't really affect me. I already have two armies and I don't feel the need to expand on them just because new stuff gets released. If I was going to get into a third army, it would be because someone was selling it second-hand.

2. This doesn't worry me, it's just a few more files to open.

3. I play my armies regardless of their current "power level", against whatever my opponent is playing. I find the luck of the dice has way more influence than the strength of the list.

4. I played Beastclaw Raiders in tournaments back when they had their own book and were absolute trash, for years. Learning to find satisfaction even in the games you don't win is something I'd strongly recommend.

5. Meh. I don't need the "new hotness". If I'm in my local store and I see a model I like, I'll buy it. If not, that's fine too.

6. Not sure which specific debacle you mean, but every time there's a FAQ people always get in a flap about it. The excitement usually dies down after a couple of weeks and everything carries on as before.

7. This is the big one, which basically enables all the others. I'm not worried about missing out. If GW dumped the entire AoS line tomorrow, I'd shrug and move on to another game, there are tons of great games to choose from. I'm not invested, which is very freeing.

[Wordy9th]

I think the question could be better phrased, it's pouting and reads a bit like youtuber clickbait. Also because when you ask the question 'why do you put up with this' the answer is fairly simple and uninteresting. Obviously because the positives outweigh the negatives at that moment in time for me, or the person currently engaging in the voluntary luxury hobby.

 

I could be trite and end it there, but I'll approach the questions with some good faith.

1) I can afford it is the short answer. The long one is obviously based on numerous factors. I understand price increases because of inflation, covid, a plethora of third party releases and so on. I generally don't think the prices are that bad, particularly if you plan around the purchases, buy via third party stores and so on. Your milage may vary but yet again because of the question the answer is 'if you don't want to voluntarily engage in a trade with Games Workshop ltd then don't'.

2) I remember 40k 2nd / 3rd ed and WHFB, this is a fair sight better. If you're the FAQ / Broken Realms / Tome Celestial type of guy then you probably enjoy all this. Depth is nice when you're invested in the hobby. It poses challenges for new players but that's a different issue.

3 - 4) This is an issue sure, one that would deserve its own discussion. I'd dare say however that unless you play one of a few flagship factions you're likely to always have your turn after your book release watching everyone else power scale or receive attention beyond you to an extent. You are but one child of GW and everyone else must have their place in the sun. (Unless you're beasts of chaos)

5) Not exactly perfect, but I've never been stung by it personally. Add it to the positive / minus calculations.

6) It was fine. Interested in seeing how it will be going forward, there are some rules I'd ask GW to look at a bit better. Certain warscrolls feel whack and could use adjustment. 

7) Control yourself, you're an adult. (It's pretty lame though).

 

 

[zilberfrid]

I mostly don't, but cherrypick a box every now and then.

The modelling quality is very good, though the shift to monopose models even for infantry type units makes them a lot less attractive.

The rules are better than something like 40k or Necromunda, but are not worth the price.

Edited January 17, 2022 by zilberfrid

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, Battlefury said:

I would like to know you opinion about the state of acceptance due to specific points:

1. Prices increasing with each new release.

That seems to be the standard for every business trying to sell me stuff. If stuff getting more expensive was a deal breaker, I don't even know what hobbies I could even safely get into. I have always looked at prices just in the moment: Does this seem worth it to me right now? So far, the price has usully been high, but justifiable for what I am getting.

2. Rules bloated. It sometimes takes more than 4 ooks / releases to have all of the rules together.

Sucks, but has not personally affected me and the armies I play. I am not angry enough about it in the abstract to quit the game. Plus, there are aggregator websites which I don't feel bad about using.

3. Power level increasing with new releases, leaving older armies behind.

I don't see this one. It seems to me that the armies that can't currently compete are those that had bad books on release or had their rules broken by the transition to 3rd edition. I can't think of an army that got power crept out of viability. As much as we gripe about the rules, they are honestly balanced OK. Especially in casual/home play where you can just ask your friend not to bring the really abusive stuff.

4. GW basically neglecting certain factions, wich just don't get anything new and up to date.

I don't see this one either. Every faction at least gets books and rules updates on a fairly consisten schedule. Big releases seem limited less by GW not wanting to put them out, and more by not being able to. Up until the pandemic there was a constant stream of 3-4 big model releases year plus a bunch of small bonus releases such as Warhammer Quest, Warcry, Underworlds and commemorative models.

5. Models being locked behind paywalls, or big box sets, for a long period of time.

I don't know what pay walls you see apart from big box sets. The box set limited time exclusivity is not something I love, but there is always kitbash potential or ebay. So far, this has not impacted me personally.

6. FAQ debacle.

Which one are you talking about? I personally don't think the latest FAQ was bad. It didn't do enough as far as points are concerned, but otherwise I thought it was pretty good.

7. Massive FOMO

People always talk about FOMO marketing being GW's new mode of operation, but I don't see it at all. I have been able to get every new model I wanted in the recent past no problem, and they don't really make models or special rules limited time offers (not counting warhammer day/anniversary models). Are people just talking about big box sets selling out quickly when they say FOMO? Because I don't buy those in the first place, and that might be the reason the supposed fear does not affect me.

---

There is a lot I would love GW to do differently. They should definitely join the 21st century and release their rules in a more contemporary way as well as try to lower barriers to entry. Taking a step back and looking at AoS objectively, the game is not in a bad state compared to others. The balance is honestly OK for a competitive game with a list building aspect. It could be better, but it is OK. GW's marketing is trending more exploitative, but is in many ways just catching up to the industry standard. Prices are high for what you get, but it's not Magic cards or video game weapon skins. If you actually paint all your models, the hobby is not that expensive to participate in, as far as money-per-time is considered. I honestly don't know an alternative to warhammer I could point to that is as good in the areas I care about (good models, interesting game, constant support with updates).

[Maogrim]

Is this thread aiming at redpilling us towards how bad and evil GW is, aka getting us to quit their products?

Because that's what it reads like by your constant use of negative adjectives (bloated), verbs (neglect, leaving behind) and nouns (mess, debacle), even though you're 'just asking questions'. These are relevant questions, but by the way of framing them in this destructive and incredibly salty manner you are, in my opinion, doing noone a favour.

Hence I'm not adding to the vitriol you want to concoct.

[Chikout]

Ok I'll answer in good faith.

1- I think the quality of the figures has been constantly increasing for the last 20 years. Also I have a budget of £200 a year for gw minis. This hasn't changed so I just end up buying fewer minis. I have less free time than I used so kind of works out ok. 

Rules bloat- needing four books is a rare case. The app has also alleviated a lot of this. Also I buy books for lore first, rules second so it doesn't bother that much. 

Power creep is a myth. Power fluctuation is more accurate. It is a little annoying but I'm not a competitive gamer and I don't play against people who like to push the rules. 

Neglected factions. Nothing in AoS is near as bad as the imperial guard or nids for 40k. Every single AoS faction has had something since AoS launched. 

Models being locked behind big box sets. I don't care. It usually takes me a year to paint an army, so if I start collecting a new faction when the book comes out, the individual minis will be out before I'm done painting the army. 

FAQ. Yeah it's a tad annoying but I house rule many of my own games so it's not an earth shattering problem. 

Fomo. I've never felt it, at least not in the way implied. There are always hundreds of models that I want to buy and paint and numerous games I want to play. The thing that prevents me is time. If there are a handful of exclusive items its often something a relief. 

The models are awesome, the lore is cool and the games are fun. 

The thing I find most difficult to put up with is the negativity of the community. 

[Lightbox]

The hobby as a whole is pretty fun for me, models prices are high sure but once I have an army built or a unit built etc it's not like I suddenly have to buy it all over again (if we want to talk about expensive hobbies let me redirect you to the various trading card games I play... at least GW models feel a bit better for value) When I buy warhammer kits I'm buying something that is going to last pretty much for as long as I play, I don't have to buy new armies or new models all the time (I mean I do but that's my own poor choices 😅) if I was a tournament player though who constantly went out and bought whatever spammable new hotness was a thing then yeah, my wallet would feel it a lot more. But generally everything seems to be going up in price thanks to the wonders of inflation... and whilst I'm on the topic of costs when I look at how much things like my makeup often adds up to I honestly feel like GW kits are maybe not as bad as I used to think... but that's because for me a model kit has a lot of personal value. Plus there are a lot of great 3rd party sites to get kits cheaper if I feel strapped for cash. And also 3rd party models, because I play in a casual club environment where people don't mind so much.

Power level increase feels like such an odd topic because we've got years of experience that actually no, each new release is not better than the last. Is a modern book better than an old one that was bad even when it came out? Sure but that's kind of to be expected, I remember when the meta used to be that a single book would rule for like a solid YEAR or two, that hasn't quite been the case in a long while and many books still come out that feel more balanced along the ideal middle ranges (Soulblight for example)

As for rules in lots of books... it's a pain but for the most part I've only really noticed it with extra allegiances or single warscrolls (which you can always find online) besides Lumineth but they (so far) have been an outlier in terms of book longevity and caused quite a ruckus so hopefully will be the last where that happens. 

FAQ's are FAQ's, by this point we know they generally won't rock the boat and exist to tidy up rules interactions and such. Some people still seem to expect them to be a whole new book though which is weird... I'm also heavily against only being able to use small parts of a battletome because so much has been FAQ'd, it stops it being accessible to new players.

FOMO is also an odd one, and for me not something I've felt to be honest. Sure I may lose out on the occasional foot hero who is... okay but doesn't rock the boat. But I can always kitbash or get it secondhand, usually I don't need a battlebox because if I play that army I ususally have those units. I also don't mind warhammer day models because they're just alternate sculpts of existing units so no fomo there. Cursed city is a completely different issue which was fairly unprecedented and Is now finally being rectified. I wanted cursed city but didn't get it because I couldn't afford it at the time, I just accepted that and moved on with my life.

 

I will also agree with earlier sentiments that this post seems worded in a very provocative way and does feel clickbaity. I personally don't feel that it's the best way to foster a discussion? I feel neutrality would be better so people's opinions are their own and not influenced by deliberately influential/provocative terms and descriptions. It's like the difference between asking someone "Do you think freddos cost too much?" and "How could you accept the terrible price increase on Freddos?" one is just asking an opinion, the other is making someone look and feel like a bad person for being okay with it.

[dmorley21]

3 hours ago, Battlefury said:

I would like to know you opinion about the state of acceptance due to specific points:

1. Prices increasing with each new release.

2. Rules bloated. It sometimes takes more than 4 ooks / releases to have all of the rules together.

3. Power level increasing with new releases, leaving older armies behind.

4. GW basically neglecting certain factions, wich just don't get anything new and up to date.

5. Models being locked behind paywalls, or big box sets, for a long period of time.

6. FAQ debacle.

7. Massive FOMO


Why do you accept this mess? Looking for individual opinions here.

cheers///

 

1. It's annoying, but I'm not somebody who collects a pile a shame. So it takes me a while to build and then paint... so the price is much more spread out for me than somebody who just buys whatever is new. 

2. The app has fixed a lot of that - for now. I can find the rules for everything I need in the app. 

3. I don't think that's true. Kruleboyz have not done overly well. People were pretty down on Nurgle (though I think it's a good book). I think largely it's just the nature of the new edition - that left certain armies behind. 

4. That's just not true IMO. That happened back when I played WHFB, but every army save Nurgle and Idoneth had a book in 2nd edition, and those two had books right before and now seemingly at the beginning of 3rd edition, plus got lots of supplemental updates. I think people have gotten too used to instantaneous results; I'm actually quite pleased with the rate books and armies get updated. 

5. Annoying, but easy enough to find them secondhand. 

6. What debacle? I enjoyed the most recent FAQ/balance update, and appreciate that FAQs are now in the app. 

7. I just don't buy stuff unless it's for an army I'm currently working on/playing. If I feel I need a limited release model after the fact, I can always get second hand for an upcharge. Typically, I just feel like I don't need it after the fact. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

34 minutes ago, Lightbox said:

if I was a tournament player though who constantly went out and bought whatever spammable new hotness was a thing then yeah, my wallet would feel it a lot more.

This might be why some people feel so bad about the state of AoS, because from a competitive perspective the game is kind of awful. Very little stability in the rules, yet paradoxically some abusive lists seems to survive for years. If my prospect for AoS was to have to buy a new 2000 point army every few months (probably selling off an old one in the process), paint and base it to tournament standard and then still get wrecked by Morathi and the Bowsnakes or the newest spam list that squeaked in just before the relevant FAQ and that nobody could have predicted would be a thing when I built my army, I would also feel that it's not a good game.

The thing is, that's just not how I (and probably a lot of other people) engage with AoS at all. I just slow-grow a few armies by buying a box of models I like every month or so and then play games at home against friends. Engaging with the painting and modeling components of the AoS honestly takes up a lot more of my time than actually playing. And I use the same models in other games as well, so that's a baseline value that's there for me regardless of the rules of AoS proper at any given time. I am into AoS at least as much for the creative expression component as I am for the actual game, and if I take those two together as a whole I think what GW is offering is pretty nice. But I can see how if you mostly ignore the part where you build up an army and really make it your own, then AoS starts looking a lot worse.

[Beliman]

1. Prices increasing with each new release.
If there is something expensive that I cannot afford, i just don't buy it. 

2. Rules bloated. It sometimes takes more than 4 ooks / releases to have all of the rules together.
About books and released material: Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but I don't have any problems with books, campaigns, White Dwarfs, etc... I like them all. The more, the better (that's why I buy Soulbound too: I even tried to make a Brightspear army in Cities of Cities... it was a completely failure but whatever).
About rules: I play an army that nobody knows exactly how it should be played... yep, a bit more quality of rules woudl be appreciated.

3. Power level increasing with new releases, leaving older armies behind.
Fake news.

4. GW basically neglecting certain factions, wich just don't get anything new and up to date.
It sucks to be a dwarf.

5. Models being locked behind paywalls, or big box sets, for a long period of time.
It could be horrible if KOs had a lot of battleboxes and new releases... but NOP. 

6. FAQ debacle.
They are good (waiting for Nurgle FAQs btw...) and I think that the only problem is not having all the rules in a free digital file like 90% of other wargames. Sometimes they are awesome, sometimes they are bad, like everything in this life, so...

7. Massive FOMO
Even if we had some temporary releases like Bugmansson or Dagnai (Cursed City), it was always easy to buy.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Beliman
Edited

[Gaz Taylor]

My thoughts on this super click baity topic! Now to be clear as I suspect some people think this - I have nothing to do with GW and all for criticism when valid.

1. Prices increasing with each new release.

Whilst I’m not a fan of price increases, this is just one of those things as cost of things go up. I can remember when petrol was less than a pound and I could also get a pint of beer for less than £2. I’m not quite sure what you are getting at here unless it’s you would like things to be cheaper? I would too as it means more models!

2. Rules bloated. It sometimes takes more than 4 ooks / releases to have all of the rules together.

I don’t think this is the case with AOS. There is a element of this but this is something GW have done for years. People want new rules to explore elements of their army or a new way of playing. Im not a fan of multiple books to play a game.

3. Power level increasing with new releases, leaving older armies behind.

I think this is just the nature of the beast. I’ve been playing GW games for nearly 30 years and it’s always been like this. It’s better than it used to but they could do better.

4. GW basically neglecting certain factions, wich just don't get anything new and up to date.

I think this is just they only have so much resource to do stuff. This is one of the reasons in my opinion why we have Warcry and Underworlds, so they can explore these ideas and ranges. From a pure AOS point of view, I suspect there is a limit to what they can support and why some stuff gets neglected/forgotten about.

5. Models being locked behind paywalls, or big box sets, for a long period of time.

Guessing this is about the limited sets like the recent one with Fyreslayers and Deepkin? I have no issue with this as if I was into those factions and wanted the new model I would get it or I would just wait. Depends on the set.

6. FAQ debacle.

Not sure what you mean about this unless it’s not getting the updates straight away? GW should be better with the timings of things. Also whilst I don’t agree with some of the updates in the Christmas one, I accept I do not know the release schedule or where they want to take the game. I’m just pleased it’s in a great format and it will help evolve the game (at a reasonable pace as well!).

7. Massive FOMO

Its not really a GW issue. Just magpie gamers wanting all the new stuff! 🤣😁

 

I think GW are doing a good job but they can do better. I think the with dripping of AOS releases and news isn’t great and is one area they should improve on (but I know some is outside of their control like shipping). I like the state of the game but I also know it will change when the next few books drop and whatever updates we get. 
 

I think some people get fixated upon how they think the game should play, that they want change but also fear it. This is a hobby we do for fun and it should be fun, not a chore! For example the question about FOMO - is this really an issue or something you don’t like? Is it’s GWs fault for trying to sell to people like this because there is a market for it? I’m not a fan of it but it’s not on my list of things I hate or is evil!

[Gitzdee]

FOMO has never been an issue to me. All the limited models i wanted out of boxes or any thing like blackstone fortress/cursed city i have bought on the secondhand market. And to make things even better, most of the time i've bought them cheaper than the average GW hero model.

[pnkdth]

1. Prices: I only buy 2nd hand and 3rd party + the prices from GW have lead to much fewer and less frequent purchases and other companies getting a much large slice of the pie now.

2. Rules bloat: I think this applies to 40k and not AoS.

3. Power level: Same as above, a 40k issue mostly.

4. Neglecting factions: Yes, this is frustrating. However, with Tome Celestial they're doing something. For the sake of BoC players I really hope their upcoming one will give them something to be excited about.

5. Models behind paywalls: A mixed bag since, usually, boxed sets come with heavily discounted models. Quite a lot of my stuff are due to good value boxes and patience.

6. FAQ: Yeah, FAQs for FAQs is not a good look. I want to see where battlescroll is going to take us.

7. FOMO: I can see it very much in Kill Team and 40k but again, I think AoS is spared from this. However, as stated in point 4 a healthy dose of patience cures you of FOMO. If you find yourself getting super excited and opening your wallet to easily I highly recommend talking to a professional. I'd recommend almost everyone to do so since there's so much hidden underlying stuff we're not even aware of controlling our daily lives for irrational reasons. So don't think I'm shaming anyone here, this is genuine life advice. Your mind and brain is a pretty hecking important part of your body. Take care of it!

Point 2, 3, and 7: Is a big problem for 40k. I returned back to 40k during 8th when fan vids and communication seemed like, "woah, GW really have stepped up their community building game A LOT. This is awesome!", and while power creep were already a thing the bloated beast that is 9th edition made me go, yeah, no thanks. Each release in 40k right now are just introducing sillier and more over the top things (which fits the universe but not so much the game).

-

Overall, recent times have changed a lot of my gaming habits. I focus way more on skirmish games and, let me tell you, it is a heck of a lot easier to get someone to invest in 45-60 minutes in a game with about 7ish models each than "oh, you gotta dedicate months and tons of money just to get in the door. DONT QUESTION IT!". GW are acting as if they're a premium brand who deliver the best of the best when they do not. I still enjoy the rules and, especially, the setting a lot but it is no longer a centrepiece of my hobbying. Which is maybe exactly what GW needs. Some proper competition to step their game up. Not to mention all the new creative and innovative game design coming up from indie studios which will make the hobby a richer and better place for us overall.

Like others say, the moment you stop leaning on GW for your hobby fix is the moment you become free to enjoy the wealth of amazing experiences there are to taste in the tabletop mini sphere. In many ways the hobby seem to go through the same phase as MMORPGs did when all of the suddenly gaming exploded with tons of new games and different genres. I no longer say, "I play warhammer" for example since there are many more games in the mix now and warhammer isn't even "my main" anymore as you would say in MMORPG terms.

[Koala]

Can i go just slightly OT?

The reactions to the topic are why i just like TGA. There sure is some negativity and criticism but the baseline attidude of most people here is "it is a Hobby. So i will either have some fun with or get out of it". ( Which is, btw, also my answer to the questions)

[Overread]

MODERATOR NOTICE - I'm going to leave this thread open for now as whilst the opening post is more complaining/grumbling than we generally allow, thus far the replies have been very mature, sensible and constructive. Which is exactly what we aim for on TGA - the potential to have critical discussions, but avoiding constant negativity. 

[JackStreicher]

6 hours ago, Battlefury said:

I would like to know you opinion about the state of acceptance due to specific points:

1. Prices increasing with each new release.

2. Rules bloated. It sometimes takes more than 4 ooks / releases to have all of the rules together.

3. Power level increasing with new releases, leaving older armies behind.

4. GW basically neglecting certain factions, wich just don't get anything new and up to date.

5. Models being locked behind paywalls, or big box sets, for a long period of time.

6. FAQ debacle.

7. Massive FOMO


Why do you accept this mess? Looking for individual opinions here.

cheers///

 

First off: You are asking very valid questions despite some people being rude towards you for doing so. (lough and confused smilies)
In fact I think most of us don't think about it in the way of issues the game has but the fun it can offer. So to speak most of us rather look at the side of the games' potential instead of it's weaknesses. Which sometimes makes us blind to issues we create by ourselves for our hobby.
In this case we should perhaps seperate the product from the producer. The product is fine-ish. However I personally would describe my relationship with the producer and the way they handle their product as a toxic relationship: You stick around because you remember the good times you've had, however they demand way more than they are giving back, growing bolder and bolder every quarter.

I am going to answer as truthfully as I can:

1. Prices increasing with each new release.
- I am in a position where a friend of mine owns an independent Store and offers me quite a big discount. Without it my purchases would have been reduced massively. I've already reduced my consumption due to €/Model reaching ridiculous levels even if you cut the price by 30-40%.

2. Rules bloated. It sometimes takes more than 4 ooks / releases to have all of the rules together.
- This one hit me hard. I am rather unhappy with the 3 editions despite my enthusiasm at the beginning. I've stopped buying books altogether (40K and AoS). One point is the bloat, it's excruciating to me. I don't want to have to put up with it. Another point is the rate of which books become obsolete combined with the (imo) absurd price of it.

3. Power level increasing with new releases, leaving older armies behind.

- I don't think this is the case tbh. It seems more or less random: Some new releases are really good, others are bad, depending on how well the designers handled a faction. Strangely enough this is more of an issue with 40K. However imo 40K drives this way because the devs are trying to make every book and entry cool and useful, sometimes they miss the mark by a siginifcant margin (Orks, both AoS and 40K).

4. GW basically neglecting certain factions, wich just don't get anything new and up to date.

- This is nothing but upsetting. Simply out of masochism: I waited 3 Editions for Bretonnia to get a remake. That's what... 8-10 years? Guess what: They were removed from the game
The way factions and releases are handled is a horrible mess. They should at least give us a crude estimation about when factions might be updated. Waiting years for an update is quite frankly inacceptable since we're all mortal beings.

5. Models being locked behind paywalls, or big box sets, for a long period of time.
- This is a mild annoyance since eBay sorts that kind of issue out rather quickly

6. FAQ debacle.
- A shameful display: They have the money, they have the staff (or get new stuff with money if they need more people), they had the time they simply didn't botgher. I haven't played a single game since that FAQ it utterly destroyed my motivation to play or paint AoS. It was too little, too late and it was also too badly executed. Sure it's a start, however we should expect more than that and they should deliver way more than that.

7. Massive FOMO
- It feels to me like this has decreased as of late, so not much of an issue. 

 

TLDR: As long as you have fun it's fine. Once you lose the fun it's time for a break or to stop.
I am personally keeping myself happy about the hobby by taking a break from AoS and buying way less, working on my old 40K backlog.

Edited January 17, 2022 by JackStreicher

[Nizrah]

1. I never bought anything from the GW store beucase there is only 1 in my country in capital city XD. So i buy from internet stores for reasonable prices in my currency. But everythings is going up so i dont mind that GW raise prices aswell. Its how it work lmao. 

2.  No a problem. I have all rules I need on my phone. 

3. Its not true. 

4. Its a shame but its how GW operate with their realse cycle. 

5. You can just buy them secondhandly? What's the problem? XD 

6. No idea what FOMO is. 

IMO your list/complains are a bit out of touch. 

[Arzalyn]

2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The thing is, that's just not how I (and probably a lot of other people) engage with AoS at all. I just slow-grow a few armies by buying a box of models I like every month or so and then play games at home against friends. Engaging with the painting and modeling components of the AoS honestly takes up a lot more of my time than actually playing. And I use the same models in other games as well, so that's a baseline value that's there for me regardless of the rules of AoS proper at any given time. I am into AoS at least as much for the creative expression component as I am for the actual game, and if I take those two together as a whole I think what GW is offering is pretty nice. But I can see how if you mostly ignore the part where you build up an army and really make it your own, then AoS starts looking a lot worse.

You are spot on, the majority of people that are in the hobby are for the hobby part more than the game. The slow pace of constructing a army make the price increases and model exclusivity not something that noticeable for the majority of the people. Rules problems are a problem mostly if you are just going to tournaments to have some games. If the majority of your games are with a regular group of friends its much easier to create some custom changes or adjusts lists and things like that. Even looking to tournaments, a good amount of people that frequently attend them do so more as a chance to get some games and show their painted army rather than trying to win.

In part rules and things like that seem to be more problematic than they are because they are what we can talk about easily. We can discuss a lot more about how well a unit perform or about lists than talk about someone else narrative campaign or the color scheme they choose for their army. Not that we don't have rules problems, but we have a echo boxes that get a minority of the people in the hobby in the end.

Of the points presented in the thread, model prices, exclusive models and factions getting nothing new are the points that affect the majority of the people that engage the hobby. We talked about prices already and others have pointed here that availability isn't has much of a issue with ebay and other second hand sellers. About faction update, its generally a problem only after you picked a faction and "finished" it or if you like its lore/rules but not the models. The amount of time people need to get in the first point helps alleviate this problem. For the second, people will probably just pick something else they like or go for 3rd parties/3d prints if there is no other faction that interest them.