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Overread

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Everything posted by Overread

  1. Open and Narrative are basically GW saying "do whatever you want - you can play with matchsticks and require your opponent to drink a shot of whisky every time they lose a mortal wound on a model" if you want. It's just formalised casual play. So yeah if you and your opponent agree to it you can play with hidden armies; secret deployments; abnormal points values; without points; with no army limits; with no grand alliance limits etc....
  2. No worries. It should be noted that pretty much every GW game has been the same - open information approach. So its one of those things experienced players take for granted even without checking (hence why most of us didn't even glance at the rules or know where to look for an official stance on it). IF GW were to change it to hidden information it would be something they'd have to highlight very specifically in the rules; otherwise most players will generally assume its full open disclosure of information.
  3. @Sleboda check one post before your last
  4. Page 311 of the Big Rule Book under Matched Play rules. Army Roster subsection - first paragraph states that you write out your army list and show it to your opponent prior to deployment/start of the battle. Below that it states the content of the roster - basically all army details. The only details you can leave off are specifically mentioned on warscroll cards such as which unit an assassin unit is hidden within. Typically those note that the unit is written on a separate bit of paper and that is placed in a visual but covered spot during the game and is revealed when you reveal the assassin in the unit (or that unit is destroyed).
  5. Yes and no - armies would have spies and spyglasses and scrying stones and stuff. So they'd have an idea what your opponent was using. Plus Warhammer is, by and large, an open information game. Barring a few very select examples, all the details of your army are available to your opponent and vis versa. It's a means by which one simulates experience on the part of the games general and intelligence and loads of other bits. It also helps reduce casual cheating by having opponents read your list and being aware of its content. It also becomes part of choice making - if they know you've got a specific artifact on a specific unit then they can treat that unit differently to how they otherwise might treat it without said artifact.
  6. If immersion isn't important go spend half an hour talking to some Skaven players and dare them not to "skaven speak". You'll get drowned in double words and double meaning words being thrown at you every which way like mad. Immersion means different things to different people and lets remember that a tabletop 35mm game is going to be representing things differently to a 15mm wargame and both are worlds away from what a top end computer game can achieve. Warhammer Fantasy 35mm tabletop had rank and file and formations - Warhammer TW does too. But only in TW do you get even anywhere near the realistic representation of rank and file battles; and even then most are still tiny (in real armies one can easily start talking about thousands to hundreds of thousands and for Fantasy you could be talking many hundreds of thousands or even millions for an army like skaven). So in the end there's certainly a point at which one has to use ones imagination. I'd argue that, yes, at launch AoS wasn't so good with that. The lore was weakly defined (after Old World); the setting was still finding its feet; GW weren't giving clear direction either and you can see that in the BL novels that came out and how things have shifted from those early tales. Whence the realms were nearly infinite now they are finite; where once they had almost no boundary now they do etc... Furthermore we are setting the lore deepen. It's crazy to think that GW didn't plan this out better, but honestly I think its due to the nature of how they launched AoS under the banner that all that mattered was the models; lore, rules; background etc.. were all not ranked as important enough next to models. Things have changed now and the BL authors and the Battletome teams are really pushing the setting forward and getting things firmed up here and there.
  7. @amysrevenge to be fair that might change come next year when more tomes are out and the armies are more shored up across the board for AoS. Heck even this coming Winter it should be a very different ballgame for AoS than it was this past winter. That said yeah if they are cobbling together general alliance armies then chances are they won't eb doing as well. Personally I hope GW either lets General Alliance armies remain as they are or only get modest attention - its not that I hate the idea of them, its that balance tends to fly out the window once your'e allying together factions purely on lore and when the factions are not "made" to be allies. It can seriously mess with the balance to the point where you can end up with super powerful min-max combos.
  8. No its more that one day you wake up and a bit of the moon has fallen off and landed in old farmer Jack's field. Then a week later you notice a few goblins -then a few more -then gosh darn it you've got yourself a full on infestation!
  9. It depends on the context of the game as to what gets revealed when. In general you are not expected to know anything in advance of deployment, except for the race/faction you are going to play against (and in a tournament you won't even know that). At deployment you'd be expected to have locked in your army list so that you can show your opponent what's in it and deploy onto the table. There's no secrets at this stage save the ones that the rules allow for; which is mostly relating to things like Assassin type units that can "hide" within another unit. You still have to declare the unit is part of your army, just not what unit they are in (you are required to write it down on paper before the game and to have that paper with you to reveal so that you can't just change your mind part way through the game - the battletomes typically note this on the warscrolls). For a tournament many require pre-registration of army lists before the event for the TO to review. Your opponents won't know the lists, but the TO will for review purposes to help ensure fair play and that mistakes don't slip through the net. Otherwise its what you and your opponent agree to. You can agree to share all long before teh day and to allow free changing of army lists (counter building - remember that if one does it the other can too); you can agree to keep it all secret until deployment; etc... There's a wealth of choices and no right answer save that you and your opponent agree to it prior to the match. Typically I'd expect, in a pick up game, to know the army type I'm facing (Stormcast, Skaven etc....). I'd also expect people to bring either one generalist or one adaptive list that can tailor slightly to a specific foe (eg the army list you'd take against stormcast would possibly differ to one you'd take against skaven). However I'd not expect to know every unit my opponent takes. Note - at the local level if you always use the "same army" and composition your opponents will know it in advance. As a result they can counter you more easily even by accident when they build their lists.
  10. Don't forget most games we play are supposed to represent major battles. We just use skirmish sized armies because it would be beyond impractical to do otherwise with 35mm models. So most armies would have setup camp. It's something I really hope we can see pulled forward in a few more BL novels (the early Realmgate ones sort of glossed over it because Stormcast could just keep marching for weeks on empty stomachs without any supplies at all it would seem). Even armies like the Flesh Eater Courts will likely have rotting carts (sturdy waggons) pulled by undead horses (pulled by loyal stocky draft horses) carrying essential supplies, armours, tents, (rotting bodies for the feast). So most armies will have the transport capabiltiies to bring terrain features with them. The FEC Chair easily comes along that way; meanwhile things like Gnawholes for Skaven fit in that if Skaven are around they've likely gnawed into the area and setup a camp or ambush rather than walked many miles overland.
  11. Overread

    The Rumour Thread

    Yes! We'll be all Dakka until next week or so when we might get some fresh AoS madness from Adepticon
  12. Overread

    The Rumour Thread

    Yep on the 40K side I really hope Eldar are next! Orks and Chaos have had big updates; Marines get continual updates; Tyranids are pretty much all updated (I wouldn't say no to new heads for gaunts or plastic duel kits for the lictor/deathleaper and bio/pyrovores); Necrons, Dark Eldar and Tau all have new fancy toys and good solid ranges; Sisters of Battle are getting a big update whilst Orks and Chaos have had/are having a big update. Genestealer Cults got a massive update - so yeah the last thing on the table for an established functional army is Eldar
  13. Overread

    The Rumour Thread

    I really hope that Ynnari is either done after a Craftworlds update or alongside. The core of the Craftworld Eldar models is ever so out of date! Even many of their plastics are first generation plastics with no revised updates. Eldar needs a big and almost full rework of their core army and I've love GW to do it - though honestly I'd love for them to embrace the more Xeno side of them rather than the more "human like" side. The old Farseer models and bonesingers with tehir elaborate and large helms always looked really alien to me. In contrast things like their mech units with their domed heads always looked rather plain and dull.
  14. I can't see getting 2K point games down to 60mins as viable option. Mortal wounds coming out too fast would sure speed the game up; but in the end people want to have units on the table for more than a round before they come off again. Otherwise why bother building and painting a great looking army if most of it is leaving the table one or two turns later. Faster games are smaller games with fewer models such as in skirmish. Otherwise you're just building way too much that leaves the table too fast. Plus fast death rates would play terribly with the duel turn system as well as with the general desire to see tactics and manouvers because you'd have so much damage coming out that the games would fast all just be a brawl. If anything mortal wounds might actually be getting a little too heavy from some factions.
  15. Personally I expect GW to continue with "free terrain" for AoS 2.0. Come 3.0 I think they might shift back to having a points cost for the terrain and perhaps adding one or two options of it to some factions. By that point GW will have "trained" AoS fans to use GW terrain for those features like a regular model. Right now GW is breaking the back on "home made terrain" somewhat (not fully of course). The idea from their end is to generate increased interest and market in their terrain product. Once they've reached that point they can tone back the pressure somewhat; prevent other options and broaden things out. I also think that both Endless Spells and Terrain are a big push to give AoS some unique identity for itself in the market as a whole; esp since they removed rank and file style fighting as a feature of AoS.
  16. Overread

    The Rumour Thread

    Far as I'm aware we've got nothing at present. Hints from GW itself that "more slaanesh will come " and "new aelves" are about all we've got. Otherwise the GW Leaks Department has been really slow - heck I'm willing to bet GW has closed the department and sold the potato!
  17. I think the old to new balance is fine because in the not too long run all will be running on the 2.0 version of the rules. The interim period of updating is a pain; but no different to past editions by GW hoenstly - with the big difference being that we have a horizon in sight where we can see the whole game running 2.0. In the past we might wait years and some armies would never get a new edition update. Also don't forget early AoS was "messy" and unsure of itself. Many first edition Battletomes were just warscroll cards - no army abilities and very limited other army features. AoS 2.0 adds a lot ontop of that so it makes sense that a direct comparison shows many 2.0 armies are better. As for terrain I don't mind free terrain so long as its not broken (so far it seems Flesh Eater Courts might be but most of the others aren't); and I can see GW's angle. They are breaking the back of the fact that many gamers never bought much terrain. They either used home made or store terrain so neither generated much revenue for GW. I figure free army terrain is the new fad and once it cools off we might see 3.0 introduce costs for it once people are used to buying terrain "like a model" from GW. Furthermore if they add more per army we might again see costs added. Plus we've not yet seen GW do a "Killteam" style game for AoS which is also another way to deliver loads of terrain sales.
  18. Overread

    AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

    Just a heads up for any in the UK - TrollTrader has around 10 pairs of Rat Ogres from Island of Blood up for sale in 2 unit sets at present. They appear nicely made and are sprayed in a dark brown colour; they are priced very nicely for the pair (around £10 which is a lot less than they often go for when being bid for even though they are undercoated).
  19. Overread

    New Player Army Question

    It's sort of min-maxing but its also partly because many people prefer single faction based armies overall. AoS has been weighted very nicely so that whilst there are Grand Alliances, the army mechanics make it beneficial to take mono-faction armies or rather I should say monobattletome because several battletomes (such as Gloomspite Gitz and Skaven) are combined arms approaches adding several forces together under one banner. That said many alliance blocks are subtle in how allies are drawn in - eg if you were playing Daughters of Khaine you could bring a Shadowblade Assassin - you might not even notice that it's not a DoK unit because visually its still in the same "dark elf" aesthetic from the old designs. So they blend in very well. Allies do happen, but they are penalties for them. Eg they don't get army traits whilst allied mages cannot take spell lores from their own battletome nor from the faction they are joining - though if you're using realm battlefields they can use the realm spell lore, same as any other mage on both sides. So when you take an ally its either a casual game or you're looking for something very specific that has to fill a good niche of its own. They can also be good for army flavour and composition fun - some armies like Flesh Eater Courts don't have a huge roster so sometimes its fun to bring something else allied in. Also note the original Grand Alliance books are very old now and quite out of date with how AoS has changed. We don't know if GW will release new overall Grand Alliance rules/books - my personal hope is that if they do then it wants to be subtle, I think AoS, like most wargames, works best when factions mostly stand on their own. When there's balance between factions and factions can have strengths and weaknesses whilst also having their own lore, style and flavour.
  20. The question is - have we provided helpful, truthful information or have we backstabbed our fellow skaven player with false and misleading information so that they cannot arise to challenge our own position! ?
  21. Welcome back back to the great Clans! A general point - many things in AoS work by Keywords, so abilities and traits and such reference specific key words which are summarise at the bottom of unit profiles. A unit can have multiple keywords and thus could be benefiting from more than one bonus. Also spell lords each mage comes with its own spells on its warscroll card itself - some list out just the basics (arcane bolt and shield) whilst others might have one or two unique spells that are listed in detail on their card. Then if you want to take spells from a spell lore there are two sources: a) The Battletome for the army that you are fielding. So if you're fielding a skaven army you've got two spell lores listed within there and, depending on the wizard, you can pick from the relevant spell lore to get another spell. b) If you are using "realm rules" from the Malign Sorcery boxed set then the realm the battle is set in can give you another spell lore that is universale to all mages in both your army and your opponents. Note that this is is about the only way an allied mage from another faction can get additional spells; because as they won't have the right key words they can't use your Army Battletome spell lores (and the cannot use the one from their own army because they are not being fielded as part of that army). Each Skaven unit is now part of a Clan, you can easily take units from any clan and mix and match as you want and you'd be fielding a Skaventide army, where you'd have battleline units such as clan rats that you'd have to take a mimumum number of. However if you take units from only Clan Moulder then you can use special moulder units as battleline instead. The bonus is that a clan focused army might have greater internal synergy and play a specific style better than a mixed army or other army; however a mixed army might have more options and be more versatile. Partly its player preference and what you want to play as.
  22. Overread

    Disheartened about the current stance on Elves

    @whispersofblood actually I think GW is well aware that many gamers are focused on only a few factions or even one faction "at a time". Sure they'd love us to all be playing multiple armies all the time, but that just isn't reality at all. Most people don't own 2K points of 8 armies and GW goes out of their way to invest lore, books, backgorund and such in single factions. They very much focus on the idea of the monofaction gamer. The duel kits are neat and they do encourage players to try out new armies I agree, but that doesn't take anything away from the importance of armies that players still collect. That said I think the yare also aware that most gamers that remain active and playing and building will replace models in existing armies. Most players who run space marines who've had collections for decades still get new marines when they come out - they replace the old with the new - using newer better sculpts or jsut different sculpts. Also getting easy to start isn't so much worrying about existing players; GW already has them. It's about new players. GW is VERY aggressive in securing new players because they realise that for Wargaming, esp fantasy and sci-fi, they ARE the gateway product for most countries. 3rd party stores aren't very good for wargames, the store makes far more profit off card games and is far more likely to market Magic the Gathering to their customres rather than a Wargame that's slower to sell, takes up more space and costs more per unit to buy in. Chances are they get way more profit for a booster box of magic cards than they do for a Knight and they sell a LOT faster too - both in bulk and in individual trickle sales of card packs. So GW is out there pushing their game to new gamers; it why Killteam is so important to them right now. It's breaking that expensive start up barrier down even more so than the getting started sets have done. GW wants new gamers, new blood because that goes on to become old blood and old gamers in the future. GW doesn't want to run the risk of a mounting generation gap where they end up with an ever ageing fanbase where recruitment of new young players is increasing harder and harder.
  23. Overread

    The Rumour Thread

    It's really hard to tell - GW has been on a big Chaos 40K spree at present; then again that would leave them well in a position to them switch back to AoS where there's a lot more sculpting options on offer. That said Eldar for 40K have a LOT of legacy models still in resin and a lot of their plastics are really old too, so that could be a potential 40K target to improve next up.
  24. Overread

    The Rumour Thread

    Out of interest what has GW done with other "new store" models in the past? Did they ever go on general or open release even for a limited period?
  25. Overread

    The Rumour Thread

    Both Free Peoples and Stormcast have a big reason within the AoS lore to actually be very multi-racial. Stormcast are plucked from the heroes of two worlds and any peoples so there is inherent huge racial diversity right off the bat. Meanwhile Free Peoples are basically whoever survived the Chaos era - again a huge potential for being very multi-racial. That said for Free PEoples we aren't dealing with the Earth we are dealing with the Realms so multi-national for them might be very different from how we understand it on Earth.
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