Neil Arthur Hotep

No, every army has martial heroes that unlock basically all units. The list building restrictions don't prevent you from running no unique heroes. The bigger problem is that some armies just rely on their uniques really heavily to unlock core strategies. OBR usually wants to bring either Katakros or Arkhan, for example, and then build around that. Running a bunch of small guys instead isn't really equivalent in terms of the functionality it unlocks. Of course, a meta without any unique units would look different, but that is to be expected.

I would support a balancing pass to the manifestation lores, but I think people need some more time to cook with the current manifestation rules before it's time to nerf their basic mechanics in any way. The manifestation meta definitely needs to develop more before any "fixes" are implemented. Although the current rules do seem to skew armies towards high magic. Would be good, but also the designers just didn't express the ideas around manifestations very well. I think the basic intentions are like this: Mobile manifestations are units, but appropriately to their nature as living spells you can't buff them, give them commands or capture points with them. Non-mobile manifestations are destructible terrain. You can charge, attack and shoot them, but they don't mess with your movement other than physically occupying some space. You can just walk up to them or away from them like any other terrain. People always try to explain this with bulleted lists about when they are or are not units, but that's just a really unintuitive way to express the above ideas. I think there are probably some edge cases somewhere, but I am pretty confident the above is at least 95% accurate to how the rules work.

Once again, I have been thinking about lists. I feel like I have been trying to be too cute with my recent lists, focusing too much on synergies and not enough on the basics. So I want to make sure I get the fundamentals right in my next attempt. Which, to my mind, are: Three threats Screens Power projection So, what unit pairings are threats in Cities? Here are a few that come to mind. Fusilier Castle (560 points) Marshal, Command Corps, 20 Fusiliers These guys are a defensive/supportive threat. By putting them in the middle of the board I can take shots at anyone near the center. My opponent will want to charge them, but that is a trap, too: Once they are entrenched with Fortified Position they will be very hard to shift and it is unlikely that the opponent can actually take the point they are guarding off of you efficiently. Cavalier Hammer (~600-800 points) Two heroes, 10 Cavaliers Offensive threat. By running two heroes next to 10 cavaliers they can easily be pushed up the board 16" turn 1 and will very likely get an alpha strike. If they start within 18" of the foot Marshal, the Relic Envoy can give them the charge order when they need it. A lot of heroes can potentially join the Cavalier block. I like the Alchemite for access to 3d6 charge and +1 to saves or maybe Zenestra for the ward. After that, the cheapest fast hero is the Cavalier-Marshal, but I think the any of the monster heroes, Hurricanum or even Tank Commander can reasonably be added here. Dark Elves can build something similar with Drakespawn knights, but it is harder since they don't get to move two units with Advance in Formation. Those two groups are, IMO, genuinely good. Not much need to mess with them other than adding additional support if there are points to spare. After that, I think if you are running pure humans things get a bit tricky. Doubling down on any of these groups is inefficient. Fusiliers really want Master of Ballistics (or any offensive buff), so the second block of 20 is a lot worse. Cavaliers are more doable, but you likely won't get two early charges with them since the set up is so heavy on Orders. Steelhelms, I think, cannot be made into a credible threat in any capacity currently. A human artillery company composed of two cannons and a Fusil-Major could be workable, maybe, but I think it is not a threat that contributes well in the objective game. Steam Tank groups are probably no longer a threat, sadly. For players that don't exclusively run humans, I think the following are easy go-tos: Runelord group (420 points) Runelord, 20 Hammerers Bruisers. Sit on a point, are hard to shift, hit back really well. Add 10 Irondrakes if you feel like it. Sorceress group (400 points) Sorceress, 20 Executioners Offensive threat. Huge amount of mortals on the charge. Probably needs some kind of screen, though. This unit has the upside of also opening up Dark Riders, which are great for battle tactics. Gotrek (360) He is weaker this edition, but he is still a credible offensive threat all on his own. He just needs some cheap bodies around him and he's good to go. Those are my thoughts so far. I think it's easy to get lost in the sauce with Cities by putting in units that synergize well but ultimately don't help you win the game. I'd love to hear a bit about which unit combos you guys think are good. EDIT: One more thing: It feels like some Manifestations can take the role of a threat. The Krondspine Incarnate in particular is basically just a big monster. The Battlemage can get +1 to summon it, or +2 in Collegiate Arcane Expedition. That's a 50/50 through an unbind, but seem like it could be worth doing.

An Ironweld update would be super cool, too, though. So... Cogfort Steam Tank Gyrocraft And then for dwarves... Engineer hero? Gyrocopter Air-Marshal? Command-Corps like dwarf engineer team? Shooty dorfs Punchy dorfs A new runelord

I had that suspicion, because the FLY keyword restricting movement would be very surprising.

Thanks for this info. We were discussing whether or not the Gravetide can move into combat or not while we were playing. I had not previously deeply looked into the mechanics of Endless spells, so I didn't have the answers ready. We kind of had the movement/set up rules wrong in our head: We though what prevented movement after setup was just that both abilities are CORE, but it is of course a universal rule. For the Gravetide moving into combat, that's actually a super interesting thing, though. We remembered that the restriction of not moving into combat is part of the Move core ability and that then correctly identified that the Gravetide does not use that ability, but instead Pulled to the Grave. So we already identified one unintuitive interaction here. I find it funny that there is an even deeper layer with going on with Fly that might block the movement into combat again. So yeah, FAQ that please.

So, I got blown out pretty badly turn 1. But I think it was decidedly due to bad plays on my part at the table, not due to decisions during the list building stage. My opponent brought Kruleboyz. Lists below: Battle Plan is Border War Deployment: My opponent is mostly bunched up in the middle. I have the Fusilier castle with Zenestra in the middle; Steam Tank, Alchemite and Cavaliers on the left and the Ven Densts and some Steelhelms on the right. Turn 1: My opponent chooses to go first. He picks Take the Center, pushes everything foreward a bit and takes the flank points. Pretty standard stuff. I choose not to counter charge, because I didn't feel like gambling 2 CP on that 50/50 charge. He summons the Gravetide with is Shaman. I'll talk about Endless Spells later, but TL;DR they are good and pretty annoying. The Gravetide bonks my Steelhelms a bit and annoyingly puts a bunch of stuff into combat, including the Fusiliers. The Boltboyz shoot at my Fusiliers a bit, and does some decent damage, about 10 because without Fortified Position and a ward they are still just 4+ save guys. The Killbow shoots Zenestra, but that was a rules mistake, she can't be targeted since she is infantry. In my turn, I choose Take the Flanks. The reason being, I am thinking that I can pretty just do it with the Ven Densts and Steam Tank. This was my first mistake: I should 100% chosen a different tactic because a lot of my units were completely out of position form this. I should have done the Attack on Two Fronts instead, I'll go into it later. Hero Phase, I do all my stuff, and it actually all goes off really well. Banish the Gravetide with the Fusil-Major. Double-pray with Zenestra and actually get the 10 prayer points for two effects (ward and bonk his wizard for d3 mortals). Cast 3d6 charge on the Cavaliers, and that goes off too. Alchemite +1 save on the Cavaliers. I don't get the Steelhelm ward, but I think that's the only thing that went wrong. Movement phase, and this one was actually super positive: Advance in Formation with only humans actually is as speedy as it looks on paper. Really fast. I ended up with in the opponent's territory with all the units that wanted it for Take the Flanks really easily. The Cavaliers get pushed up so far that they have a 3" charge into the Killaboss on Vultcha (who moved up on the left objective) and the Gutrippaz (I roll 15" on my 3d6 later, lol). Shooting phase, I get to shoot with my Fusiliers. All-Out Attack with Master of Ballistics, 11 dudes alive at this point. I shoot them into the opponent's Boltboyz (this, too, was a misplay), kill 3 models. Seems completely OK: 120 points of Fusiliers killed 110 points of Boltboyz in this exchange. Charge phase. Going kinda out of chronological order here, but my opponent counter-charges the ven Densts on the right with his Monsta Killaz. This is enough to kill Doralia which foils my battle tactic. This would not have been possible with Take their Land. Now for the big one: I get the charge with the cavaliers. They get the charge order, too, so +1 attack. The game plan is this: Slam my big block of 2+ save dudes into the enemy center line and get stuck in. At this point I am feeling pretty good. I have a command point left over for All-Out Attack, too. So I am looking at the Gutrippaz and I know they are buffed up. They have the Sludgeraker +1 damage buff and mortals on 5s. But I figure: It's my turn. I will slam in there and wipe out a good amount of them, and then just take the clap-back if I have to. I am sitting on a 2+ save, after all, and have just lined up the ideal situation for my Cavaliers: +1 attack, +1 to hit. Gutrippaz have a 5+ save, they will definitely get blown up, right? I start by making a pretty dubious decision, putting my impact hits into the Vultcha. I won't do this in the future. My opponent took 6 damage from it, but just rallied in the next round. The extra damage would have been much better used by concentrating it into my primary target. Combat phase, and now comes the big turnaround that lost me the game: Kruleboyz have their dirty tricks. One of them is to give a unit strikes last. He roll, he gets it, and now the tables have completely turned: Instead of my buffed up hammer unit getting to hit first into his main infantry block, his buffed up hammer gets to hit first into my dudes. 20 buffed up Gutrippaz do 30 mortal wounds or so on average. I get my Cavaliers completely wiped out before getting to fight at all. We do another turn after that to learn the new rules, but this was such a huge swing that it was basically impossible for me to come back. Not only did I not do any damage on my own turn, I instead lost my main hammer. But: This was 100% due to misplays on my part. I had all the tools I needed to win that engagement if I had paid better attention, I could have: Used my shooting phase to apply "strikes last" on the Gutrippaz with suppressing fire. Between the Fusiliers and Steam Tank, and maybe some other plinkers I should have gotten it on average. If I had not got the strikes last off, just redirected everything into the Vultcha (he was a less appealing target since he had that 3+, retreat for free trait). Given how close I was to the opponent, I didn't really need Twin Tailed Comet. I should have cast Cindercloud on the Gutrippaz instead to cut their damage in half. Put the impact hits into the Gutrippaz. So yeah, I got blown up by not considering my options carefully and not respecting the new edition's focus on rock-paper-scissors and activation wars. To end on a positive note: On turn 2, the big scary Gutrippa blob, Vultcha and Sludgeraker got into my Fusiliers castle. But now I actually just had all my buffs up. I counter-fired and gave the Gutrippaz strikes last. And that was basically a complete reversal of the above situation: Barely anything on my side died between the wards and everything, and he lost half of his models. If you get all your buffs, Cities is really resilient. Some take aways for me: I lost some models turn 1 before I got to act. Of course, that made me think about the Fortress City Defenders formation, being fortified and at -1 to be wounded would have made a big difference there. I am not convinced it is actually better than +3" shooting range in this edition, though. Likewise, using the Brazier would have helped heal up some of the models I lost. Endless Spells are pretty annoying. The Gravetide does pretty good damage and can move into combat without charging. That's why I even though the Brazier would have been very good for me this game, I am not sure I actually want to switch into it: Having an extra banishment from the Sacred Tome without having to give up my Alchemite cast or Zenestra prayer was valuable. Definitely stack wizards and priests this edition, don't let opponent's freely cast manifestations. Master of Ballistics: I'm going to say it's worth running. However, I was really feeling the command point squeeze this game. The new commands provide a lot of options for dynamic play. Earmarking a lot of them for All-Out Attack and All-Out Defense is actually a big opportunity cost. Fusilier Castle: The build works and does valuable stuff for you. Just don't be dumb like me and make sure they don't take damage before you have your wards up. Command Corps: Super good and really worth their points with the Marshal. 5+ ward always is good, the threat of foiling command is really good, double commands are also worth it and the group fights well enough. Marshal: I will keep bringing him, the Relic Envoy and extra control are really convenient. Wards: Even though the faction seems lousy with 5+ wards, they are not as free as they look. I think Zenestra is still worth bringing because she allows you to push foreward offensively with a 5+ ward. Steam Tank Commander: Barely did anything in my game, but was fast and got my Cavaliers into position. I think if I had used him better, he could have done work. Since I got wrecked by that strikes last ability, of course I was considering if the Cavalier-Marshal would have been better with his strikes first effect, but honestly I could have played around the strikes last thing no problem with the tools I brought. Ven Densts: They really don't do damage when they are on their own, not fighting wizards. They are very fast, though. I didn't get to shoot a wizard or even a manifestation this game, which makes me sad. I am really curious about the Hurricanum. With how valuable command points and wizards were in my game, a wizard that saves you a command point on All-Out Attack is looking pretty nice right now. I am seriously considering stacking wizards and priests and playing the Manifestation game in Collegiate Arcane Expedition.

Not that I am aware.

What an absolutely cursed image.

Why are you splitting your Fusiliers? Given you run Master of Ballistics, I think running them as a unit of 20 would better maximize buff efficiency. Anyway, I am bringing this list to my game today: Cities of Sigmar Ironweld Guild Army Steam Tank Commander 340 [General] Alchemite Warforger 110 - 10 x Freeguild Steelhelms 100 Freeguild Marshal and Relic Envoy 130 [Sacred Tome] [Master of Ballistics] - 10 x Freeguild Cavaliers 340 Pontifex Zenestra, Matriarch of the Great Wheel 240 - 20 x Freeguild Fusiliers 240 - 6 x Freeguild Command Corps 190 Galen ven Denst 210 - 1 x Doralia ven Denst 0 - 10 x Freeguild Steelhelms 100 Spells of the Collegiate Arcane Scriptures of Sigmar 2000/2000pts 5 drops I am trying to do two things here, mainly. 1.: Get long-term value from the Master of Ballistics Fusilier block and get an early charge (on my first turn, if possible) from the Cavaliers. For this game, I will be going against Kruleboyz and we are not using the Honour Guard rules. This is why my Tank Commander is alone in the general's regiment, to make Slay the Entourage harder. I am running a few experimental units, just to see how they do. The Steam Tank is one of them. I don't think he will match up well against Kruleboyz (mortal wounds everywhere), but I want to see if I can run him as a support hero for Cavaliers in place of the Cavalier-Marshal who actually doesn't really do all that much outside of the list building stage. This list has enough Orders and other buffs to pretty much guarantee a big damage early charge, I think (Zenestras wheel effect on her prayer, the Alchemite with Speed of the Twin-Tailed comet, the Relic Envoy to deliver an extra Order without a hero nearby...). I am hoping to get into a good target early with Strike Them Down active. Zenestra is in there for the prayers, but looking at the prayer lore and her warscroll prayers, I don't know how much I want her in my lists, specifically. It really feels like I should have a 5+ ward in a lot of situations that matter independently of her prayer, unlike last edition. But I know that anti-magic is important, and her unbind and 1d3 wizard bomb are pretty cool to have. I am considering replacing her with a Battlemage on Hurricanum, which would support the early Cavalier charge better. I still feel my lists lack damage. I am also curious about the viability of the Collegiate Expedition subfaction. By going high drops, it feels like running a list with some pretty credible casting is not impossible. I kind of want to try a 10 Battlemage meme list, too. The ven Densts are just here to see how they perform this edition. Two extra orders are fun and they are a fast moving piece for battle tactics and a credible threat against wizards. I think a casual game is a good place to test them. To be honest, I am not sure they bring enough to the table for competitive, but they are cool models so I want to bring them at least sometimes. This army is Ironweld Guild because I think the Fusilier block really benefits from the extra range and I have a bunch of other incidental small shooting attacks, as well. I think I don't need the 2" movement bonus from Dawnbringer Crusade. I don't really need to spend my orders on anything except Advance first turn anyway, and I have 6 orders, and they all get to advance two units each because I am running only humans. Collegiate Expedition might be a valid choice in a list with 3+ casts. I don't really rate Fortress City Defenders that highly. Unless an alpha strike meta becomes incredibly widespread, I think the other formations are better. Let's see if my plans work out this evening.

Both fur and feathers on this.... cape? I just painted the Gryph-Stalker, which had both fur and feathers on it. This could be a Stormcast mini.

It is arbitrary, but I believe it is reflective of the designer's intention, which ultimately I think is what determines whether or not the book gets split up. There are no more big waagh, coalition or ally options to be found in the new rules. So I think we are looking at IJ and KB as separate forces, which, to me, makes it questionable that they would be getting a joint book.

The difference, IMO, is that GW seems intent on not letting people mix IJ and KB units.

It's not like exceptions don't exist, but with an Ironjawz spearhead apparently in the works I don't really see a good justification for it. Both IJ and KB are the size of other regular AoS factions.

Some kind of Dogs of War, if you will.