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24 Lord Celestant

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  1. "A Daemon Prince that can fly has a Move of 12" instead of 8". " I would just assume that A) it flies B) in addition to flying, he has a 12" move So flying rules apply, and his movement speed is better.
  2. Gotta get that demon prince. But the model is soooo ugly XD Maybe I am gonna take Be'lakor instead. Or I am gonna built a unique one, wouldn't ne the first time to do stuff like that. Concider him as allied, too! That healing buff is pretty neat, and can come in very handy. Combine him with a force of single unit Khorgoraths and watch the enemies face by all that healing stuff. That's gotta be funny. Idea behind that: Single Khorgoraths are goin to engage single enemy units. So those are gonna split their A to them. Result will be, that they will for sure not slay any Khorgie in combat. Thos are gonna pile in and hit them one after the other, each one healing a wound. Buffs are not needed on them, but on the demon prince as the ultimate Beatstick in that combo! When you ally him, think about the other keywords & buffs he could get!
  3. @XaszApparently you didn't use the altar, did you? What is concidered to actually be better? Gore Fists, or Dual Welded Axes on the Blood Warriors? I really don't know. Since they are an anvilo unit, Gore Fists would technically be the logic choice, but only a 16,67% chance to deal a MW to the enemy.
  4. Again for the Bstigors. They don't really need those buffs, really. They're pretty good on their own. When I take Brass Despoilers s the Battalion and they gain KHORNE keyword, are Bestigors battleline then?
  5. BoC feat. BoK seems to have a simple issue. As long as the entire army is moving towards the enemy ( might just be first turn ) it is fine. In that army I would recommend to actually not use the altar, as it will be worthless. Noone that applis buffs will stay in the 8" bubble, so that's basically why. The Bestigors pretty much outrun the Khorne heros. That's the issue here. The Heros just can't really stay with them, and they won't stay wholly within the bubble effects.
  6. The only way to win via objectives is huge mass ob bodies. So we gotta use, what is the cheapest and rush for objectives. Staying there by bodies means to position in a way, that not the entire group can be wiped easily. We should go for the minimum number of models per unit and really run with all the groups to objectives. I forces the enemy to split their As to those groups. So they might stay there longer. But honestly, for only demon units I don't see it working a lot of times. But we gonna stay positive, so i can't just say, what would be on point. So I am gonna say: Try it out, you will for sure have success with spamming the cheapest units... .
  7. That actually will serve some issues. Gonna look into that. Thanks for the quote there
  8. But how are we gonna hold these? Just planting BWs there and see them getting shot, magic'd or straight up slain in melee? That's a concern i have. How are we getting there, if the enemy is more viable to come to us, than we are? Talking about objectives that score significantly more points on the enemy territory. How do you make it? I understood, that you chaff units pretty well. Are you going through the gaps with hounds? Are you maybe playing like "gotta hold the objectives 3 turns, then I am just gonna out point the other player"? I can understand each single concern @Ravinsildhas. It is the combination of actual warscrolls and the possibilities of strategies ( contains movement, buffs, shooting and melee aspects ) that feel very restricted. Would anyone volunteer to test the army against these lists?: Leaders Lord-Arcanum (180) - General Knight-Heraldor (100) Lord-Ordinator (140) Lord-Castellant (100) Units 10 x Sequitors (240) - Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields- 5x Stormsmite Greatmaces 5 x Sequitors (120) - Tempest Blades and Soulshields- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces 5 x Sequitors (120) - Tempest Blades and Soulshields- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces 6 x Evocators on Dracolines (600) - 4x Grandstaves War Machines Celestar Ballista (100) Celestar Ballista (100) Celestar Ballista (100) Endless Spells Everblaze Comet (100) Total: 2000 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 0 Allies: 0 / 400 LEADERS Verminlord Warpseer (260) Plague Priest on Plague Furnace (180) General Verminlord Corruptor (260) w/ sword of judgement Grey Seer (120) Lord of Blights (140) UNITS 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Spear 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Spear 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Spear 40 x Plague Monks (240) - Foetid Blades- Icon of Pestilence - Doom Gongs 40 x Plague Monks (240) - Foetid Blades- Icon of Pestilence - Doom Gongs BATTALIONS Congregation of Filth (160) ENDLESS SPELLS Vermintide (40) Allegiance: Skaventide That's stuff to actually face. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. And please don't just say "we just can't, maybe we should concider facing other lists", because if that would be the case, we actually pointed out the consistency problem with this army atm. I am really looking for tips.
  9. "Larger rats would invariably beat smaller rats most of the time, given their ‘pinning’ game was very body weight dependent. But when larger rats would not let smaller rats win once in a while (Panksepp estimated around 30% of the time), the smaller rats would stop playing with them. They no longer wanted to play when it was impossible for them to win, they were fine with losing most of the time, as long as there was a chance they could win." original experiments by Dr Jaak Panksepp The most important point is, to actually have consistent chances to win. Now imagine, in a game like that. #competetive No competetive player would let you win, just because you play a specified army. So here we are at the core of the issue. The chances to actually win within competetive environment is not consitently given within this book design. For just playing anyway it is ok. That's not trolling. Those thoughs of me, Ravinsild, Killax, Sleboda and all the other "complainers" comes from their experience That experience might not be yours, but it is still viable anyway.
  10. Technically they have to take responsibility for their product, what they don't do. Otherwise it is like the DayZ effect. Selling beta stuff over and over again is sometimes concidered cashgrab, or even scam.
  11. Using Beasts of Chaos was a thing I did concider too. But a few sides before someone stated, that they can not be used in the Blades of Khorne allegiance, although they would gain the KHORNE keyword. Is that right? @ChaosUndivided I suggest we get your point. At least, that's what I did. You're happy with the book, and thats actually a good thing! You should maybe concider, that each region got its own meta, really. And apparently the army still is not viable for competetive games in generel. Maybe in your location, so you can be happy about that! No need to get in defensive mode, noone wants to insult you personally. A thing about your quote. He is right, basically. But we have to concider the different mindsets, that lead to our characters. Let us talk about my mindset there. In generell, I am pretty diplomatic, freindly and I do not expect miracles to happen. But when I really put a lot of effort into something, then it would have to pay out at least a conciderable number of times. If that's not happening, and trust me there, people will become cynical. That's where the human mind is irrational. But it is something, we can understand. What to fight for, if nothing pays out, ever? It's the same thing here. Although it is just a game, we want to achieve something. I have played a lot of games and tournaments with Khorne. I managed to gain 1st place a single time. In free games I had a win rate of average 20%. When i started another army, that changed. I have played the very first tournament with that army and won all 3 games. I have defeated our local matadore. There I noticed, it really comes down to the tools, that are given to you, me and other people. So, if we want to achive something, and we put effort in it, but our tools are just not correct, we can not achieve a victory. And that would be a victory for us, meaning for our personality. It is important to gain benefit, from what we do. But for some people this army ( and the game is reflecting more than just the actual game here ) is a task, where our tools are not correct. What we don't like is, that we have to race muscle cars with a tricycle. And it has been the same with the old book. Now, with hte new one, that tricycle got new wheels, so it actually runs better. But how is the overall chance, to really be victorious? That's the issue. Noone offends other players, because they concider the book good. The designer himself is to blame, and the inconsitency of the company. And we just write, what we feel, because otherwise, we can not communicate our anger and frustration to anywhere.
  12. I can kind of understand the point, that we shall not compare. But at the same time that point is a little 'iffy. We have to actually compare. It's the same like in sports. Let us take Soccer als an example. Group A vs Group B. Group A is concidered to be the winner, because they performed better than Group B and Group F. They where eye to eye with Group D, but definetly better than group P. But maybe they're not as good as Group C maybe. We have to compare. otherwise we wouldn't get better at the game, tbh. Let us compare another couple: Blood Warriors vs Bestigors. People might claim, that Bestigors are ridiculously point efficient. And they're right. So are Sequitors. So why not Khorne units? Bestigors do have kind of the same base stats. 120 points for 10 100 points for 5 Blood Warriors 10 wounds, 4+ save, 4+ hit, 3+ wound ( or the other way around for BWs, but the % stays the same ). The BGs can run and charge. They gain +1A, when charged. They gain +1 to hit, when enemy is 10 or more. BWs pile in again, when slain. Can have rerolls of 1er hits, or 1MW per 6er save. Concidering the purpose of those units. Bestigors are made to go in and smash stuff. Blood Warriors? Ain't they designed to get in and stay there? Shouldn't they then be much more resistant? And even IF several units are just ridiculously price efficient atm, shouldn't that have been adressed in the Khorne book, as it was designed? Due to point cost, or warscrolls?
  13. I did and I do win actual tournaments. But just not with this army. Archaic threatening gesture. We shall not communicate on that level, shall we? Of course this forum is anonymous. I do just say, what my experience goes to. And apparently, several other players do see the same issues with the army right now. @ChaosUndivided Do you actually play competetively? I won't judge you on that anyway. But please concider, that there is a big difference between open / free games and a competetive environment. My concerns normally go down to competetive games. As I told, i do play tournaments. When it comes to free games, the army is pretty ok. Not pretty good, but okeyish. Whenever I will post my concerns, I am gonna use the #competetive to clarify, what I am talking about.
  14. " Smashing their way through the maelstrom of battle, Blood Warriors roar incoherent curses as they hack and bludgeon their foes to ruin, the air around them shimmering with the rising heat of their fury. Such is their dedication to Khorne that they continue to chop and hew even after suffering wounds that would fell lesser men " Just.No. There where times in the old book, where I didn't even bother taking them. Reavers seemed to be just better, when buffed. Cheap. Rend weapons. Output of numerous A if needed. What to actually do now? Really: Take Juggerlord and Skullcrushers as battleline. And learn to pray to what god ever, that those sitting ducks don't get caught in melee for more than 1 turn.
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