Do you feel cheated?

[Moonlightwolf]

For Daughters of Khaine I don't because there's so much more in that first broken realms book than just the DoK stuff but I know a couple of lumineth players that are quite rightly pissed. they liked the range but thought it was lacking at launch, still built any army based on that limited force and are now told Lol here's the other half of your range. even if the release had of been some time in april or may last year it still would be egregious and a very cynical move on GW's part.

[Ganigumo]

In terms of lumineth it seems the tome was future proofed no? We get free warscrolls in the app and they might release a new set of warscroll cards. Broken realms will probably have a few new subfactions if you want to focus on the new units and maybe some artifacts? It feels like the only thing you'll need broken realms for is if you want to make an army with the new units as the core of the army.

AOS is actually in a pretty good spot for releasing models without a new book since the warscrolls are so accessible.

The DoK book release is a bit unfortunate in terms of timing, but the release schedule is still all messed up anyways so maybe that played a part in it.

[TheCovenLord]

I think cheated is a strong word. It is definitely very soon. Lumineth appear to be getting LOTS of love in the near future (4 temples in the end and after only 1.75-2 ish they already have a substantial range compared to some older less loved factions).

 

As for the books I believe it is due to delays forcing GW's hand. Along with the vampires leak I think they've been put into overdrive to push stuff that should have already been released out the door and capitalize on the vampire hype.

 

As for the DoK book I expect not much will change within it, maybe some new temples/battalions/rules tightening maybe a few key warscroll changes but overall I view it more as a consolidation of an increasingly scattered rules set. Which I hate to rag on GW they could completely avoid by going fully digital. But I digress that's a complaint for it's own thread.

Edited January 25, 2021 by TheCovenLord
Missing some words to make my sentences complete

[Sarouan]

I can't say I'm really cheated, since my Daughters of Khaine miniatures are thought as an ally force for my Cities of Sigmar and that I use them mostly in skirmish games like Warcry, but...yeah, I thought it was weird when they didn't put the new profiles in the Broken Realm: Morathi book. I suspected it was because a new battletome book was on the way with Hedonites of Slaanesh, according to the Shadow and Pain box. Now we see it was the case.

What happened with Lumineth, I completely expected it. It was the same pattern than Adeptus Mechanicus at their time, with a book for skitarii and another for the priests, before they were reunited later in one whole book. It was obvious to me the army of light aelves has been cut in two waves.

Sure, Covid-19 has messed GW's release plan more than one time, but this helps to remember there is no virtue buying according to the hype the day of the first pre-order. Collector edition, "exclusive" big boxes...these are just powder to the eyes.

We can thank the leaker who announces the Soulblight Gravelords, since it's pretty clear it wasn't GW's intention to reveal them that soon. Just like Bloodbowl's new edition leak before the last Spike magazine for previous edition wasn't out already.

Now we know they will come later this year, which can have an influence about what we may buy for Death Alliance in the coming months.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Sarouan

[Popisdead]

4 hours ago, HollowHills said:

BR Morathi came out only a couple of months ago and now we are getting a DoK battletome which will presumably contain all the rules.

Lumineth only officially released in September but are now seeing the range doubled with none of those units being represented in the battletome. 

Given that many of us haven't been able to play in person for almost a year, coupled with continued price increases this seems a bit scummy to me.

Yeah how dare they sell more content.  We should stop being their stuff and complain about something else.  This kind of stuff has been going on for years (6th ed 40k), if it just affected you now that's a long time coming.

Keep in mind BR Morthai won't contain the CoS and other armies.  So it may be you see what, 1 or 2 warscroll updates?  I think it has scenarios as well as lore and art.  If you don't like that stuff don't buy it.  There are Dark Elf players who can now play the old 6th ed style DE City list, plus extend their army.  Just because one warscroll is reprinted did that warrant a bit kerfuffle?  Probably not.

I wouldn't call it scummy, I don't run one of the biggest companies in the UK.  I would say they are trying to adapt and to covid, keep offering stuff for us to get, and keeping their staff on payroll.  My close buddy, while he went stir crazy didn't lose his job and they didn't close down the local GW.  They are heroes for that.  

The only scummy thing is Azyr doesn't allow you to restore purchases.  

[Vasshpit]

Its odd for sure and I'm also sure covid has played its part in this but the only thing i feel cheated about is this....

New order army drops... 57 new kinds of models...

New destruction army drops... 1 model...

Too many aelves on the dance floor!

😄

[Clan's Cynic]

1 hour ago, Bayul said:

And now this thread drifts into cui bono fallacies. It's obvious that the release shedule is negatively affected be the plague, but it doesn't mean that GW conspires against their customers.

The books take around six months to make it from the printers in China, across the ocean and to the UK. We also know the turnaround time from design to stores is about four years. The Lumineth Battletome would've been at the printers long before Covid was a major issue.

I think it's very naïve to believe GW don't want to squeeze as much money as they can out of their rabid fanbase. Hell, look at this thread - people are absolutely delighted to be forking over another £25 for them so clearly what they're doing works. If I was a GW exec who read these forums I'd be telling them to squeeze the fanbase even more.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Clan's Cynic

[Feii]

Imagine buying books in 2021

[Bayul]

1 minute ago, Clan's Cynic said:

The books take around six months to make it from the printers in China, across the ocean and to the UK. We also know the turnaround time from design to stores is about four years. The Lumineth Battletome would've been at the printers long before Covid was a major issue.

I think it's very naïve to believe GW don't want to squeeze as much money as they can out of their rabid fanbase. 

You are either trolling with even more fallacies or you don't know better. I don't dispute the production process, which you are using as red herring by the way, I am talking about the release shedule and about you making scandalising bogus arguments about a conspiracy. Being rational and use some formal logic in your rhetoric might help our fanbase to be less "rabid", wouldn't you agree?

[Clan's Cynic]

5 minutes ago, Bayul said:

You are either trolling with even more fallacies or you don't know better. I don't dispute the production process, which you are using as red herring by the way, I am talking about the release shedule and about you making scandalising bogus arguments about a conspiracy. Being rational and use some formal logic in your rhetoric might help our fanbase to be less "rabid", wouldn't you agree?

So the release schedule gets effected, alright, are you insinuating that BR2 should've be coming out even sooner then? In which case that makes it even worse.

I'm not making any claims it's a 'conspiracy' just because you don't seem to like somebody being critical of GW. There's nothing irrational in the assumption GW wants to make money and they believed they'd make more of that by getting Lumineth players to buy another book - whether I agree or not isn't the point, it doesn't take a hater or a white knight to believe that GW want to make as much money as possible and weigh up the benefits of splitting up the release and not including the rules.

Irrational is thinking GW didn't have these things planned out well in advance.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Clan's Cynic

[Eternalis]

15 minutes ago, Bayul said:

You are either trolling with even more fallacies or you don't know better.

GW already said they needed one or two years to design  new models and sell them.
We know books take months to be printed, GHB2020 was printed before CoS was available to purchase. It was printed (or was  sent to print)  before octobre 2019... Their release schedule might have changed, maybe things are maybe 2/3 months late, but these lumineths and BR Teclis are at least ready since last summer.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Eternalis

[eciu]

You bought a book. 

Thats on you. 

[Charleston]

Yeah, things have pro´s and con´s:

• More releases means the hobby stays interesting for longer time. Remembering times like 4th Ed. 40k, I am quite happy about a higher release pace.
• Nevertheless, the pace and order of gw releasing new stuff has frustration potential. Especialy as we talk about some damn pricey books here, that are designed with a 2-3 years headtime. Noone can excuse thoose releases to be "fast additions because fans desired more".
• It is the same approach that we sadly know from video games: Take a part of the release, split it off and force people to buy it as extension/dlc/campaign book. This was already done with Slaves to Darkness and the "Wrath of the Everchosen" book that dropped like 1 month later. It was done with DoK with the Broken Realms book, and I am quite confident that Lumineth will see another Tome within this or the next year, together with a 3rd wave of models. That´s why gw stretches their release instead of putting it all into one wave.
• Theoretically it is possible to circumvent this by using online ressources like warscroll-pdf´s and so on. Nevertheless, the feeling of an incomplete battletome remains. This is also by design, simply to convince people to buy that new book/cards/whatsoever

The point is, that this is quite a predatory way of product design. Is it legit? Yes, sadly yes by out current society standarts. Is it nice? No. But GW know´s that people love their products and therefore they can do this and much worse stuff until sales decrease. So we have either to live with it, or decide to stop consuming their product and look for alternatives. 

That beeing said, I´d expect a Slaves to Darkness Battletome Update within the next year. The new, splitted off, Warband and also the hints of a new Belakor Kit make it possible that we will see the same "update" pattern on a quite new book here, too. 

[Bayul]

@Clan's Cynic Okay, I won't waste my time watching you tilting at windmills. You don't get it.

[Howdyhedberg]

Im happy that they expand Lumineth, not sure about the books, I might get them digital. 

I wish they made the new battle tomes like the 40k caudexes. That if you buy the book, you can upload it to your phone (at least the rules). 

It would be healthy if GW showed some love to Fyreslayers, Ironjaws, Idoneth and probably just updating the whole skaven and lizardmen factions.  

[Bosskelot]

I'm more interested in the decisions that went into deciding which Lumineth designs were going to be included in the first wave.

Did they know most of those designs were going to have a very mixed reception, only for the second wave to come and look more attractive in comparison?

[Klamm]

I don't *feel* cheated in the sense I'm outraged there's a Lumineth update so soon (or Slaanesh, which I actually collect). My silly nerd brain is excited about seeing  the cool new stuff. What can I say, I have warhammer brain. 

But yeah, chaos of covid scheduling aside, splitting the releases like this tactically sound. Short announcement-to-release turnover allows hype to build but not dissipate. Under-informing customers about things being released 6 months from now is a good way to get people to spend now and 6 months from now. So I guess the question is, what does 'cheated' mean here? A company under-informing its customers because it would be profitable? Okay.

The way this discussion usually goes, lines are drawn between GW defenders and GW cynics, but always in relation to the customer. Because there is a group who ARE being cheated (or to use the economic term, exploited), the employees. 

GW is one of the few retail stores to have BENEFITED from the pandemic. They've gone from a revenue of £118 million in 2016 to 269 million in 2020, more than doubling their profits in 4 years. Is this value their employees have added compensated? Well obviously no. Then how about a real wage rise for GW employees? No. There was a company-wide bonus in 2019 (cool, there's a reason why unions don't fight for bonuses). GW even made a show of paying back its furlough cash to the UK treasury as a PR thing. They clearly have money to burn, maybe they should invest in their variable capital.  

Anyway, feel what you wanna feel about the lumineth split release, I get both the "well that's scummy" side and the "WAHOO NEW 'ROO" side. But if we're throwing around 'cheated' let's remember employees have it worse than customers.  

[PJetski]

The rate at which GW erratas and invalidates their publications is quite shocking.

It's a good thing to fix a problem but how can they always have so many problems with every single book for so many years??? Customers should be demanding better products. This is embarassing.

[JackStreicher]

7 hours ago, HollowHills said:

. 

Given that many of us haven't been able to play in person for almost a year, coupled with continued price increases this seems a bit scummy to me.

Indeed.

Yet I bought BR: Morathi for the story, knowing they would do their best to invalidate all of the other content ASAP.

[JackStreicher]

41 minutes ago, PJetski said:

how can they always have so many problems with every single book for so many years???

Sloppy uncaring rules writing // quality control. But hey, at least it is expensive... wait!?

[NorthernNurgling]

I wanted to add my two cents because I'm interested if other people have fallen into the same trap as me regarding the Lumineth.

 

I saw the Vanari and loved the fact that they seemed more traditional and less weird than things like the Deepkin etc. The cavalry were on horses, the archers and spearmen all looked lovely. I planned on getting the first army box, and did. 

Then I saw the Alarith, and did not like it at all. That's fine though - I converted my Stoneguard by kit-bashing Wildwood Rangers to give them a warrior-monk vibe, and I passed on the battle-cattle. I still had a respectable 2k points of Vanari with Teclis and Eltharion, fingers crossed for swordmasters, heavy cavalry, artillery etc...

Then I see the kangaroo archers, and the squirrel last week. It was the straw that broke the camel's back (or whatever that thing the Regent Lord is riding).  I am quite literally painting the last 2 of my dawnriders this week and putting the whole army on ebay as soon as they are finished. This faction has destroyed me - I'm primarily a painter, and I love the level of detail and design that GW's newest ranges provide, but this is the last time I take a leap of faith and buy a partially released faction. 

So is it just me, or did anyone else jump into Lumineth thinking "Oooo, elves!" only to be bombarded into submission by this unlikely menagerie of Hyshian pokemon?

 

 

P.S. I'm rerolling Nurgle.... Sign of the times.

[Overread]

Actually the new Lumineth has me more interested in them than before.

*hides*

[Skreech Verminking]

I don’t feel cheated at all, just uncertain, and am getting pretty impatient for some lovely updated skaven models

[TheCovenLord]

9 minutes ago, NorthernNurgling said:

So is it just me, or did anyone else jump into Lumineth thinking "Oooo, elves!" only to be bombarded into submission by this unlikely menagerie of Hyshian pokemon?

Here's the thing though. They've teased more generic looking swordmasters and bolt thrower units. Just avoid Kangaroo jack and his band and focus on the regular infantry and the army looks decent. I do agree the animal themes are a bit much for my tastes. Call me boring but just give them old fashioned lions/dragons etc. iconography

 

EDIT: I by no means have bought into the army and I will wait until Tyrion (or hopefully Malerion) show themselves before I buy into any more aelves. I'll stick with my bad dark aelf pirates/sorceresses

Edited January 25, 2021 by TheCovenLord

[schwabbele]

I only feel cheated because I still get no code in the printed book for the app -.-