Sarouan

It was, though. The rest you describe is simply a fear to angry reactions that people posted after some twitter affirmations that Cursed City wasn't limited production on first pre-order (it was), and lack of internal information. There was no conspiracy involved, only people telling stuff without being informed on the real situation and not wanting to repeat that mistake again ("if you don't know, say nothing"). But it honestly didn't have any consequence on Cursed City sales (it was sold out already, anyway). When the second wave happened, situation was different : no more Hype, no more Covid confining at home (that's why selling a solo game was interesting at that time), no more "new miniature only available in the box" situation (Cursed City happened before the new battletome for vampires, and was indeed the first place to have the new skeletons / zombies miniatures) so people weren't that interested anymore into buying a copy. Here, with TOW, situation is certainly another, but I'm pretty sure the fact game is still new and hyping is still playing in its apparent popularity. Like Horus Heresy in its time, and like it, I believe we will be in a same "stagnant" situation a couple years later...when Hype is down and people will start to see the same disadvantages of Old World as they already existed in WHFB (complexity of the game, difficulty of recruiting new blood, "lack of new releases"...)

Warcry rules will be fun. I expect same treatment than Gotrek : completely OP and meant for special scenarios rather than tournament stuff. The miniature looks great, but also its design is a bit "old school". It seems to have less hollow elements you'd find on "new style" miniatures, like hollow robes and such. I personnally love that, at last a miniature I'll enjoy to paint without worrying having a spot unreachable for my brush.

Here is a night goblin boss mounted on a giant cave squig. It is a conversion from the Squig Mangler kit...the other one is also intended to be treated the same, but it's still WIP.

Here is a Doom Diver Catapult from Avatar of War. It is based on a 50x100mm - while it's normally 50x75, I decided to put the servants directly with the catapult itself. So the bigger size should be fine in game terms.

Hello everyone, I'll be using this thread to post my paintings of my ongoing greenskin army for The Old World project. So expect a lot of square bases. This is an old collection originally meant for the last edition of Warhammer Fantasy Battle (commonly called "V8"), this is why you'll see some models on old bases. I simply didn't want to ruin the ones I made a long time ago, and I'll use adapters for them. Some new miniatures will be directly built on the new base sizes. A lot of them are obvious GW models (old and new, but mostly new ), but there are also other sources like Mantic Games, Avatar of War and the occasionnal 3D printed obscure miniature range. Hope you don't mind ! You certainly saw my first painted models in the Old World army projects thread, I'll put them here for coherency.

It had nothing to do with competition, just a question of GW building up the Hype and failing to estimate correctly what would be the demand in this COVID time period. Once the sale window is missed, you can't go back. Here with TOW, you could argue competitors are "way better" and already established (Conquest, Kings of War, 9th age (lol)...). Still didn't stop people from buying same old design miniatures. Because it's not really about the "quality of rules" or "playing a better game" ; it's about going back to Warhammer Fantasy Battle, most of the time.

That's not true. There are heroes on foot that can really shine in battle, but the thing is : they're not meant to fight everything. Meaning they have strong and weak points, thus they can be countered with the right tool. Gotrek is meant to be fighting everything and still surviving because that's his core design - not because the design team can only do "weak heroes or OP ones". He's OP on purpose, that's what he is. And yes he's not very fun to fight against, since the real counter against him is to make sure he's wasted on a meaningless battle (basically ignore him). That's what happens with untouchable god characters in game designs : they're not very fun because they inherently have a very easy way to play and counter them that's way too much one-sided. I'll take instead the "weak AoS hero" every time, personnally.

There are indeed other games where heroes on foot are absolute untouchable gods by troopers, but neither AoS or WHFB / TOW are them. You're thinking more about Lord of the Ring, and even so it's debatable. Design of such games are very different and tend to talk about actual gods / demi-gods or mythical history flavour like Achille against the Troyens. IMHO, they tend to have very one-sided battles where the hero is indeed completely cleaving his way through multiple "mere mortals" and can effectively be stopped only by another hero. Depends where you find your fun. It's true AoS foot heroes are more about combos / synergies with other units than real battle beasts (though some do that job actually well, when handled properly). I don't mind it.

These miniatures are lovely. Old school chaos dwarves look really great on these new TOW 25mm square bases, thanks for the pictures.

It's a bad idea because points aren't linked to a unit in a vaccuum, but also to how the list is built and how units interact with other choices in it. When you have units available in Core and others in Special, it already limits you how you take them (freely or limited to a special amount of points). Try to take Black Orcs and Bestigors in Allies for your main list, and you'll instantly see why Chaos Warriors are superior. It's not a question of power or usefulness. There's simply a natural limit on how many Black Orcs you want to have in a Orcs and Goblins army list, first because they're actually expensive and second because you also need other kinds of characters in your list. Like wizards, specifically level 4, who are also expensive. Or night goblins, because they're also needed to unlock those juicy night goblin units. If you play Orcs and Goblins like me, you will be faced with that dilemna everytime you're building your list. In comparison, you can take as many chaos warrior units you want, and you don't need to take an expensive character for every of them. That's why it's bad to compare them only on point value : they don't fit the same role and most importantly, they don't have the same restrictions to include them in your army list. Of course taking 2 units of Black Orcs is doable - but it's not optimized. Because that means you must have 2 Black Orc characters that are also costy and if you do, you actually restrict yourself for the rest of other Orc and Goblin units you need to have in your army to fit important other roles. Shields aren't necessary if you kill your opponent before they have the chance to strike - and even less necessary if the enemy has a huge save modifier that will nullify whatever armor you have. Chaos Warriors have high initiative, high CC, good strength that's even better with +1. Why do you think halberd were considered the best option for them in 6th edition of Battle ? Because the point is for Chaos Warriors to strike first, then the enemy has no one to strike back at them. Halberds are still a very solid option for them in TOW because of that. Bestigors wish they had them instead of automatic heavy weapons that force them to strike last and waste their otherwise good Initiative 4. Chaos Warriors are more worried by losses due to shooting. Good thing shields can still be used with halberds against that (and that was really their main purpose in previous editions of Battle too). That's the trick with their high stats : they don't need as much volume of attack like other core units, it's the opposite. They can work very well in smaller units and still have the advantage. Hitting on 3 and wounding on 2 on average is awesome. Depends on how you want to build your army. Marauders and warhounds are cheap, so you have a take a lot to fulfill your core tax. With Chaos Warriors, it's easier. Freedom is the most important here, in the end. You don't have that with Black Orcs and Bestigors, and that's the point.

Comparing with units from other factions is a very bad idea. Black Orcs and Bestigors are Special units, Chaos Warriors are Core. Black Orcs have severe limitations as to how many you can take (you must take 1 Black Orc character to fit 1 unit of Black Orcs), meaning you can't have easily several units of Black Orcs because they have to pay a character tax. Dwarves are an all-heavy infantry list, they don't have cavalry or beasts and lack severely in mobility. M3 is a bigger deal than you think, low initiative means they can't really rely on killing enemies before they strike. Chaos Warriors have halberds for that. I think Chaos Warriors are fine as they are. They are meant to fill the core percentage, so of course they're not the most interesting choice of their list. That's why other units you're citing in different lists aren't core. While full plate armor is surely nice, having a save of 4+ with shields isn't to be laughed at in this game, since save modifiers are way rarer than in Battle.

There's a big difference between a campaign for a game you intend to make another edition and another that is intended to be last ever made before removing said game to replace it by another. One, you still have to worry about what you write in your background that's driving all the factions (you don't want to blow up the planet, for example ). The other, you can really go wild, it's the last thing you'll write anyway so better enjoy it to the fullest ! That's why all world campaigns GW made rarely made the background story go forth in a significant way, and why mostly everything that was described in them barely mattered in the end. In Warhammer Battle, it was always a bit more trickier than 40k, because the scale of the world was vastly different. in 40k, a campaign could be happening and deciding the fate of an unknow star system and effectively destroying it but not really mattering at the scale of 40k universe. In Battle...even a "small country" like Tilea being blown up was actually a big deal. It was a bit disappointing everything made for Storm of Chaos "didn't matter" in the end for the next edition (even the special armies, sic), but even so, it was really fun and exciting while it was going on. That's why it's still remembered fondly by us players who experienced it. Here, with The Old World, we know what will happen in the end but we don't know the details of that covered time period. That's where the campaign will focus, IMHO : in the Arcane Journals, they are already telling the invasion of Settra and how it went with the different factions, but it always stops at a specific point (generally a battle you have a scenario for in the journal). It will keep progressing as more books are released, maybe some events like a Warhammer World narrative tournament could decide of some of these future details. I think that's how they'll tend to be going rather than "wild results from a world campaign without any control".

When Cursed City box was sold the first time, sales expectations were also "blown away". Turned out they simply made a way too small number of boxes initially. So it really doesn't mean anything in comparison to AoS. It's also messy because people can perfectly buy some AoS kits for TOW (Gloomspite Gitz for night goblin units is one of the obvious ones), and vice versa. Better talk about stock numbers in 1 or 2 years ahead. That's where the real long term standing of the game can be truly seen. Cursed City after its initial release was...much less enthousiastic, to say the least. There are still unsold boxes in my GW store, and that's already telling a lot...

Storm of Chaos is not End of Times. Storm of Chaos' story conclusion was basically ignored for next Warhammer Edition as if it never happened, because of...we don't exactly know why, to be honest. Legends say it was the players who weren't happy how it concluded in the White Dwarf's novel. Still, it was a fun world campaign everyone at that time was excited to play part of.

Rend reduced across the game is the same move than strength save modifiers being gone in The Old World : it helps making save characteristic more relevant. And it also helps stopping making big saves like 2+ as essential. I bet some saves will also be less "bigger" across the game than in 3rd as a result. I'm also not a fan of the 1/2 inch coherency. Someone at GW design team really dislikes big units spreading across the table...to be honest, unit coherency was also an issue in 3rd, with the first release punishing hard all units of 6+ models. Seems like the same blind move from the design team too focused on tournaments and "what may happen with players abusing big units".

I get it they're kind of a one-trick pony, but well...when you think about it, a lot of AoS factions are kinda in the same situation. It's not really a DoK problem.

It would be if it's not sold at an exorbitant price...

Slaanesh isn't about elegance, it's about excess. Extravagance would be the most appropriate defining term, IMHO. The plastic kits were made at a time they had to be careful about models being able to be put in a close order formation (since it was a dual kit meant to be used in Battle and 40k). If they were done for AoS / 40k specifically (no more need to be used in close formations - yes, I know there's The Old World but they can just keep producing the old plastic kit for it ), I have no doubt the sculpting team will go wild with their dynamic monoposes.

Juan Diaz's sculpts were distinct because at the time, GW's female miniatures were...let's say "a bit crude". Let's be honest : it's because they were sexy they were loved. Plastic daemonettes were as thin, but also went back to the old daemonette definition : androgyneous and with a disturbing physic that creepily appeals to you. Juan Diaz daemonettes were only about female curves and sensuality, they didn't feel like "creepy demons" enough IMHO. They gave a misleading feeling of what daemonettes are in the background, still IMHO, but for people who have known them, it was going back to the old daemonette vibe that was "wrong" - understandably. I still remember people making jokes about their "dancing poses" when they were played in Warhammer Battle : all lifting one foot in perfect unison in close order formations.

Vampire Pirates have no real ties with vampire counts, though. They do their own thing. Remember armies of infamies do allow to take mercenaries. Dark elf corsairs are much better in that category than "allies" (is there really such a thing when you're a pirate, anyway ? ).

Of course they need to produce new things, that's why I'm sure Kislev and Cathay will happen in the future of TOW : they will be complete entire new releases that aren't just old miniatures repackaging. Vampires are nice and all, but they're clearly not on the top of their list to do (and anyway, Von Carsteins don't exist at the time of TOW setting, so vampire counts are completely irrelevant in themselves ). And yeah, TOW is really making "3D printing goes brrr", with lots of patreon creators rubbing their hands together with a huge smile on their lips. Can't blame them, a lot of them do a really great job on their models. Though I'm not really sure their impact is so big, I mean it's obvious you don't play with 3D printed armies at official GW events - unless you really want to troll the organizers and want to know if they'll dare to kick you out when they discover what you've done on purpose.

Optimism is the door to disappointment. GW does plan for a loooong time ahead, even more with projects that aren't AoS or 40k. They don't change that easily, because their release calendar isn't just for one game : it's for all of them, and if something comes earlier than planned it's always at the cost of another (see the mess with Epic's unexpected delay). TOW may look like it's on hype right now online (like Horus Heresy when it was first released, or Blood Bowl, or Necromunda, or Aeronautica Imperialis...), but that doesn't mean it will stay that way a year later. See the situation now with Horus Heresy...it's not so hot. Add to that external problems that may happen in a nearest future like, say, a huge climate disaster in Europe or a war between Ukraine and Russia going out of their borders or Israel doing something even more stupid than they're already doing and provoking WW3, and everything goes down the gutter. GW already has serious troubles with their products being constantly out of stock / delayed / being delivered way later than before, and it's going to be lasting in the future as well because of what happens in the world that will certainly not be better. That's why it's better to keep your expectations low, so that you're not disappointed by your unreasonnable beliefs and leave the game in a fit of self-inflicted frustration.

I think the role of hero on daemonic mount is more as a "solo missile" to deal with war machines, solo leaders or small units rather than leading a unit himself (chaos steed does the trick for that purpose). There are items that allow it to have a 2+ save but I don't think it's really necessary : the purpose is to give different targets to your opponent so that he can't shut them down all.

It means they corrected a couple of typos with player feedback, that's all.

I doubt it, because the Throne of Decay events involve heavily the Chaos Dwarves. It's more than just releasing a few Chaos resin miniatures, it also means you release the full Chaos Dwarves army as well.