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Ganigumo

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About Ganigumo

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    Liberator
  1. There are other factors, but that goes both ways, large unit footprints can be tough to get into combat, but are excellent for holding objectives, which is a big part of why the game favors hordes at the moment plus fellwaters and rockguts are on 50mm bases with a 2 inch reach. 50mm is just under 2 inches. The dankhold also dies 2 wounds earlier. What I'm trying to get at is I really don't think the dankholds can justify having a higher price tag than the other variants. I think they belong at the same cost, because when I weigh the pros and cons they seem pretty equal to me, except for the 50-60 point difference in favor of rockguts and fellwaters.
  2. In terms of troggoth hordes I'm just looking for ways to buff troggoth lists that won't break the unit for anything else. Now onto why dankholds need a significant point drop: Troggoth melee average damage comparison 3 Fellwater: Vs 4+ 7.11 damage Vs 3+ 5.33 damage Vs 2+ 3.56 damage 3 Rockgut Vs 4+ 6.67 damage Vs 3+ 5.33 damage Vs 2+ 4 damage 1 Dankhold: Vs 4+ 3.89 damage Vs 3+ 3.11 damage Vs 2+ 2.33 damage Then you can factor in special abilities like the rock throw, grab, and vomit but unless you're grabbing models with 3+ wounds, it will only even out the damage disparity. This isn't even getting into the damage variance of these guys, 3 d6 damage attacks is horribly incinsistent. Dankholds are also not durable at all. They are currently 10 wounds with a 4+ save is the equivalent of 5 Ardboyz or 5 chaos warriors(which will actually put out similar damage as the troggoth club) even at 170 these guys are way too inefficient. Spell resistance is pointless on a unit that is little more than a speedbump. Rockguts (definitely) and fellwaters(arguably) are more durable than dankholds, while dealing similar to more damage and having way better wound efficiency. I can't see dankholds being remotely usable until they cost the same, or less than rockguts and fellwaters.
  3. A bit of this is wishlisting of course but I'll give what I think some of the stuff should go to. Dankhold Troggboss - 270 to 250 Fungoid Cave Shaman - 90 to 100 (Not convinced, but this guy is very solid for the points and is used as an ally quite a bit) Madcap Shaman - 80 to 70 Arachnarok with Warparty/Flinger - Battleline if Spiderfang General. Gobbapalooza - 200 to 160 Dankhold Troggoths - 200 to 150/400 (these dudes really need a warscroll rewrite though, but this at least makes the bodies more affordable) Fellwater Troggoths - 150 to 150/520 Rockgut Troggoths - 140 to 140/520 note on Troggoths: I think horde discounts are the way to go for troggoths going forward, since if they get any cheaper every destruction faction and non-troggoth list is going to benefit more from the efficiency. What I would really like to see though is troggoths being able to regenerate back slain models if their unit still exists. Spider Riders - from 100/540 to 80/280 with their unit size changed to 5/20. I could see these guys going as low as 70 points base though. SporeSplatta Fanatics - 120 to 100 Squig Hoppers 90 to 80, I'd love it to go to 80/280 though. Scuttletide: 30 to 50 Malevolent Moon: 40 to 30 Battalions: Gobbapalooza - 110 to 100 Troggherd - 180 to 80 (This thing has a sketchy ability at the best of times, and the fact it can make a 1 drop list doesn't really matter when Troggoths don't get a huge benefit from going first or second since they aren't fast enough to alpha strike, and don't have enough shooting/magic to make double turns crippling.)
  4. I did the math using 5 brutes with dual weapons vs 5 ardboyz against a 4+ save and ardboys do around 0.04 wounds per point while brutes do about 0.048. Brutes should scale better with bigger units due to additional gore hackas and I would expect brutes with gore choppas to do better in large units as well due to the 2 inch range. Brutes will do even better against anything with 4+ wounds, so if things like ogors or giants become meta brutes will start looking very good even at the current point cost. In terms of points per wound ardboys are a 9 and brutes are a 9.3. If we were just looking at a points drop brutes start looking good at 130 and are probably better than ardboyz at 120 (8 points per wound, 0.056 damage per point). I'd probably advocate for a horde discount of ~80 points myself. You get the 20 point discount, but only in a big unit and "horde" discounts actually make more sense on units that don't have incentive to be run in larger units to make the decision between MSU or big units more compelling. I'd still prefer a warscroll update though. If they were 100 points i think the only reason to take 'ardboyz would be for hand of gork. As they would have 0.0672 damage per wound and 6.67 wounds per point which is nearing savage orruk levels of efficiency, especially with the save factored in. @TALegion That actually sounds like a great idea, i'll definitely give that a shot when I can eventually get a game in.
  5. Probably Mean 'Un for the bonus damage. I could go fast 'un, but if I really want the maw Krusha somewhere i can probably afford to use a CP on Mighty Destroyers. Although Ignax's scales + Wierd Un would make him nearly invulnerable against magic if I need that much defemse.
  6. Yeah I love brutes too, but the issue is that they are too similar in function to Ardboyz. Same save, similar attack profile, similar points to wound ratio. The game as it is now favors big hordes though, and generally the 'ardboyz +2 to charge, bravery bonus, and shields are more useful than the Brutes +1 to hit against 4+ wound models and Gore Hacka. But IMO its a pretty close comparison. If it werent for the +2 charge bonus I would probably leave them at home too. Its a bit surprising that a faction with 3 units has 2 that are nearly identical in role and strength. I don't think brutes need buffs, but certainly they need to differentiate 'Ardboyz and Brutes more.
  7. The Gargant is mostly filler at the moment, but I've already got it painted. I'll probably swap it out once I get some more Gore Gruntas painted. My reason for playing ignax's scales is that there's a lot of khorne in my playgroup and Wierd 'un doesn't help against Prayers so I'm wondering if that gives more durability than ethereal amulet in that scenario.
  8. If we're looking to make brutes better I would love to see them get +1 damage somehow. A lot of models on 40mm bases have at least 2 damage for their primary attack (Ogors, trolls, Tzaangor enlightened, etc) it would probably come with a point increase though. I like the idea since it makes the warchanter less of a necessity for Brutes. Also what is the opinion on Bloodtoofs? I've been painting up a list but I'm not sure if I should go Bloodtoofs for the +1 charge and autocasting hand of gork, or go with no clan and a wierdnob to free up an artifact and get a useful command trait. My List: Allegiance: Ironjawz- Warclan: BloodtoofsMortal Realm: AqshyMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)- General- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa- Command Trait: Get Da Realmgate- Artefact: Ignax's ScalesOrruk Warchanter (110)Orruk Warchanter (110)Orruk Megaboss (150)- Artefact: Quickduff Amulet15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers15 x Orruk Brutes (420)- Jagged Gore-hackas- 3x Gore Choppas3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)- Jagged Gore-hackasAleguzzler Gargant (160)- AlliesIronfist (160)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 160 / 400Wounds: 136
  9. You can probably skip most of whats in spiderfang, the only stand-out if you aren't focusing on spiderfang synergy is the arachnarok shaman. He's a dual caster with +1 to cast he can take a spell to project a -1 to hit bubble, which can make grots and fellwaters much more durable. For squigs, herds are cheaper than grots in min sizes so you can skimp on battleline if you need to. Boingrots are strong but your trolls will probably already be filling the hammer role.
  10. I'm incredibly inexperienced with Bonesplitterz but my thoughts are that 2-4 are more than enough to smash most monsters(2 with no buffs dealing on average ~7.5 damage), and they're extremely fragile. lumping a bunch in a big unit would make them an easy target for shooting/magic, where a small unit is easier to hide, and tougher to justify dumping a lot of resources into removing.
  11. Squig rider stampede is really good, it helps your bounderz be more consistent and nets you an artifact. Squigalanche is a bit weak, 6" fight & pile in is good, but it only working under the bad moon makes it too limiting. The cost and organisation force you to use a hero on a squig as well, since only 2 squig herds fit into the battalion meaning you can't afford to use skragrott to get the bonus when you need it. The battalion also doesn't include any snufflers or wizards, when you really want access to squig lure and/or the snuffler buff. If it was a bit cheaper, or had 3 squig herds in it it would be much better but as it stands its pretty unreliable.
  12. So I recently stumbled into a lot of Bonesplitterz after starting my collection and am trying to figure out what to run in a 2k list. My plan was to run a wurgogg, 2 wardokks, a maniak weirdnob, and a big boss as heroes, then figure out how to organize the boyz. My initial List looks like: Subfaction: Drakkfoot Heroes: Wurgogg Prophet -160 Wardokk - 80 Wardokk - 80 Maniak Weirdnob - 120 Savage Big Boss - 100 Battleline: 30x Savage Orruks (with shield & Spear) -300 20x Savage Orruk Arrowboys -240 20x Savage Orruk Arrowboys -240 10x Savage Boarboys Other: 2x Big Stabbaz -100 2x Big Stabbaz - 100 Endless Spells: Balewind Vortex - 40 The Burning Head - 30 Battalions: Kunnin' Rukk - 140 Total:1990/2000 Thoughts? should I be running less arrowboys and more Regular boys? Or should I be running a different battalion? Should I try to work Morboys in?
  13. I'm not super experienced with spiderfang, but you could fit that into the superbattalion if you cut out a bunch of spider riders. I've heard 15 is the sweetspot for spider riders too 3 fungoids is probably too much, thats 270 points. You'd be better off running skragrott, ideally with the arachnocauldron and a balewind which is 300 points for a much better wizard. He generates a similar number of CP if he's your general with the added bonus of controlling the moon once per game. Otherwise i would recommend swapping one of those fungoids for a madcap shaman. The madcap can still double cast once per game and has a spell to give a unit -1 to be hit by shooting attacks. More importantly he has access to the Moonface Mommet artifact which gives a nearby unit -1 save. Squigs at effectively rend 2 can chew through a ton of stuff. I've run squig herds in 18/12/6 which seemed fine. One mangler + support is probably the way to go, snufflers are amazing in squig lists so you should bring at least one unit. For anti ranged gloomspite gets sporesplat fanatics, madcap shaman, and the malign sorcery endless spell prismatic palisade.
  14. I'm planning on doing a tournament in the summer and I've never played in a tournament before. I threw this list together but I'm pretty inexperienced. I'm most worried about the petrifex matchup. Allegiance: Gloomspite GitzMortal Realm: ChamonLeadersLoonboss on Giant Cave Squig (110)- Moon-cuttaLoonboss on Mangler Squigs (280)- Artefact: Rune BladeMadcap Shaman (80)- Artefact: Moonface Mommet- Lore of the Moonclans: Itchy NuisanceSkragrott, The Loonking (220)- General- Lore of the Moonclans: Squig LureBattleline24 x Squig Herd (280)12 x Squig Herd (140)6 x Squig Herd (70)Units6 x Sneaky Snufflers (70)5 x Boingrot Bounderz (100)5 x Boingrot Bounderz (100)BehemothsMangler Squigs (240)BattalionsSquig Rider Stampede (140)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsBalewind Vortex (40)Mork's Mighty Mushroom (90)Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (40)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 156
  15. I I threw this list together with the bossfist. It seems to generate a fair number of CP so I'm running a fungoid and aether quartz brooch. Allegiance: Ironjawz- Warclan: IronsunzMortal Realm: HyshLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist- Artefact: Sunzblessed ArmourOrruk Megaboss (150)Orruk Megaboss (150)Orruk Warchanter (110)- Artefact: Aetherquartz BroochOrruk Warchanter (110)Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)- AlliesBattleline5 x Orruk Brutes (140)- Pair of Brute Choppas15 x Orruk Brutes (420)- Jagged Gore-hackas5 x Orruk Brutes (140)- Pair of Brute ChoppasBattalionsBossfist (220)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 90 / 400Wounds: 120
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