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16 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

Talking about adding to existing lines.  Help me out, it must exist and I'm just having a brainfart.

  1. Ignore Stormcasts
  2. Ignore heroes from dual army boxes
  3. Ignore Underworlds bands

What AoS factions have had units added to their lineups after they were given Battletomes?  I can't think of any.

Interesting point. With those caveats, I can’t think of any either. Granted, the first two conditions are arguably arbitrary rules, along the lines of “if you exclude all the circumstances where it has happened, then you realize it has never happened!”
 

But to your point I think myself, and surely many others have been repeatedly disappointed by a lack of additional models accompanying new battletome releases without realizing the relatively limited precedent for them.  Good for setting expectations, and exciting to consider what the next wave of army releases might bring!

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23 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

Talking about adding to existing lines.  Help me out, it must exist and I'm just having a brainfart.

  1. Ignore Stormcasts
  2. Ignore heroes from dual army boxes
  3. Ignore Underworlds bands

What AoS factions have had units added to their lineups after they were given Battletomes?  I can't think of any.

Legions of Nagash with the Nighthaunt units they're able to use 😉

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26 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

Talking about adding to existing lines.  Help me out, it must exist and I'm just having a brainfart.

  1. Ignore Stormcasts
  2. Ignore heroes from dual army boxes
  3. Ignore Underworlds bands

What AoS factions have had units added to their lineups after they were given Battletomes?  I can't think of any.

New models always come with a new battletome, and there were only a handful of armies with battletomes in AOS 1.0.

Do endless spells and terrain count? If so, Tzeentch, Fyreslayers , Sylvaneth, etc. would all fall into this category.

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Ooh I would indeed count Endless Spells. Thanks, that's a good one.  And terrain.  But it's still an edge case.

I think it's fairly clear that other than Stormcasts, whose entire design space is "there's always another chamber to open", and fringe pieces around the edges, updating existing armies with new model kits has not, to date, been a very common practice.  It is possible that it will happen, and you could claim that it is likely to happen, but it is definitely not the current model, and I don't think it's accurate to talk about it as if it's an established practice. 

The current model is that new armies get new models - new armies meaning either brand new like Bonereapers, or upgrading from GHB faction to battletome like Gloomspite or StD (which is all behind us now) - and already existing armies get replacement battletomes, with the possibility for endless spells, terrain, or poaching an existing unit or model kit from another faction or specialist game, but no bespoke new model kits.

In addition to brand new kits, I don't believe that there have been any like-for-like model kit replacements for battletome to battletome upgrades (ie. Flesheater Courts, Boney/Ironjaws, Khorneholios, etc.) where a unit has had its kit replaced with a new one - that's only been for GHB faction to battletome upgrades.

I'd be happy enough to see that change - for the Blades of Khorne AoS3.0 release, add a new unit of Bloodchompers or Skullheavers, why not?  Or replace the old starter box Khorgorath with a new multipart kit or something.  But it would be a new-to-AoS policy.

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13 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

In addition to brand new kits, I don't believe that there have been any like-for-like model kit replacements for battletome to battletome upgrades (ie. Flesheater Courts, Boney/Ironjaws, Khorneholios, etc.) where a unit has had its kit replaced with a new one - that's only been for GHB faction to battletome upgrades.

Khorne had a few kit upgrades in it's last release, although I think it was all moving finecast to plastic. Flesh hounds, skulltaker, Karanak and the herald all got new kits. 

Edit: although technically the flesh hounds and karanak were a few months before... But close enough

Edited by Grimrock
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Just now, Grimrock said:

Khorne had a few kit upgrades in it's last release, although I think it was all moving finecast to plastic. Flesh hounds, skulltaker, Karanak and the herald all got new kits. 

 

Love it.  So maybe there is the start of a trend out there.  I'd like to see it a few more times!

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4 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

The current model is that new armies get new models - new armies meaning either brand new like Bonereapers, or upgrading from GHB faction to battletome like Gloomspite or StD (which is all behind us now)

This has been the model until now, but with the release of Seraphon tome soon, I think we have to transition to something else. Otherwise what, they only ever release new armies? Not likely.   GW will now have to revisit existing armies and ask these questions

  1. What factions need more models
  2. What factions need models replaced due to 
    1. Finecast / Resin
    2. Ancient plastic that is not as crisp on detail / inefficient sprue layout that sucks up production capacity
    3. Doesn't match faction aesthetic or game design (model count etc)
  3. How bad will #2 affect players who own the existing models? You have to trade modernization for isolating players who may regret purchasing / painting old models.

Not sure if they will prioritize #1 (Fyreslayers, DoK, FEC) or #2 (Skaven, Seraphon).  But pretty sure armies that do not apply to either (Stormcast, Khorne, Nighthaunt, etc) Will not see any updates for a long time. 

 

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1 hour ago, amysrevenge said:

What AoS factions have had units added to their lineups after they were given Battletomes?  I can't think of any.

Fiends, chaos warriors and chaos knights all say hello. Maybe also the khorne hounds.

This was of course about when their battletomes dropped, but it certainly does happen that they update existing models/units, not just special characters or new armies.

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10 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

Khorne had a few kit upgrades in it's last release, although I think it was all moving finecast to plastic. Flesh hounds, skulltaker, Karanak and the herald all got new kits. 

Edit: although technically the flesh hounds and karanak were a few months before... But close enough

Karanak and Flesh Hounds where the only new models that weren't the hero/terrain/endless spell combination for new Battletomes as far as I remember

Of course Gloomspite Gitz, Slaves to Darkness and Hedonite of Slaanesh all got new stuff but that was basically like a complete restart as they where pretty much dead before so I count them to the new armies with Nighthaunt, Ossiarch Bonereapers and Lumineth Realmlords

So if you don't count the single models as part of the Battletome releases no army (except Khorne) got anything new/remade since their initial release

Of course those heroes are great but it just shows how no one got any new units or anything else except a hero

So I hope after this whole Battletome cycle is over other armies are going to get at least some updates

Edited by Matrindur
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There are stages, right?

Stage 1: Rules exist but there is no model.  This one existed back in t WFB but hasn't really ever been a thing in AoS.  Not an issue.

Stage 2: Models exist, in an outdated format.  Finecast or metal.  Are slowly but surely all being either phased out of the rules, or replaced like-for-like.

Stage 3: Models exist, in old plastics that are aesthetically out of date.  Some of these are being phased out of the rules or replaced like-for-like, but others are stubbornly resisting and staying in the active lineup.

Stage 4: New rules, new model kit.  This is almost uncharted territory, when it comes to existing armies (see my exceptions above - SCE, heroes in dual boxes, specialist game poaching, spells/terrain).

 

Stage 1 hasn't been a thing since AoS started.  Stage 2 and 3 replacements happen.  Stage 4 is, I think, probably going to have to start happening now that GHB upgrades are done, but hasn't really been a thing yet.

Edited by amysrevenge

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11 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

There are stages, right?

Stage 1: Rules exist but there is no model.  This one existed back in t WFB but hasn't really ever been a thing in AoS.  Not an issue.

Stage 2: Models exist, in an outdated format.  Finecast or metal.  Are slowly but surely all being either phased out of the rules, or replaced like-for-like.

Stage 3: Models exist, in old plastics that are aesthetically out of date.  Some of these are being phased out of the rules or replaced like-for-like, but others are stubbornly resisting and staying in the active lineup.

Stage 4: New rules, new model kit.  This is almost uncharted territory, when it comes to existing armies (see my exceptions above - SCE, heroes in dual boxes, specialist game poaching, spells/terrain).

 

Stage 1 hasn't been a thing since AoS started.  Stage 2 and 3 replacements happen.  Stage 4 is, I think, probably going to have to start happening now that GHB upgrades are done, but hasn't really been a thing yet.

Personally I think that with the battletome cycle completed they will do something like Psychic Awakening in 40k with campaign books in the form of Wrath of the Everchoosen but hopefully with every book coming with an update to the respective armies in the form of new units and not only a single model like in 40k 

In 40k its not really bad as most armies already have a sizable selection but AOS really has a problem with tiny units counts in some armies

Edited by Matrindur

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21 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

There are stages, right?

Stage 1: Rules exist but there is no model.  This one existed back in t WFB but hasn't really ever been a thing in AoS.  Not an issue.

Stage 2: Models exist, in an outdated format.  Finecast or metal.  Are slowly but surely all being either phased out of the rules, or replaced like-for-like.

Stage 3: Models exist, in old plastics that are aesthetically out of date.  Some of these are being phased out of the rules or replaced like-for-like, but others are stubbornly resisting and staying in the active lineup.

Stage 4: New rules, new model kit.  This is almost uncharted territory, when it comes to existing armies (see my exceptions above - SCE, heroes in dual boxes, specialist game poaching, spells/terrain).

 

Stage 1 hasn't been a thing since AoS started.  Stage 2 and 3 replacements happen.  Stage 4 is, I think, probably going to have to start happening now that GHB upgrades are done, but hasn't really been a thing yet.

The Scions of Flame will be the first unit that's not an updated sculpt to come out after a battle-tome release (no rules in tome) wont they? Correct me if i'm wrong, but i think that would be your example of Stage 4. Although, falls under specialist game poaching i suppose but maybe not in the same way as Underworlds Warbands are added. You'd be able to field multiple units anyway... Maybe they're the test for the future.

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The fact that next rumours/news after Seraphon are brand new armies gives a lot to think. In my opinion, not supported by any fact, there will be armies supported long term and some just updated to new versions of the game. I would bet on a new wave for Idoneth or Kharadron way higher than any new model for Beasts of Chaos outside of the specialist games.

Hopefully between now and Adepticon they will tell us a bit more because personally I reached saturation of new armies. It’s not just buying them, it’s also assembling, painting them and finding storage room...

But I’m happy for new people coming in the hobby and finding what suits them best, more players better games.

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8 minutes ago, alghero81 said:

In my opinion, not supported by any fact, there will be armies supported long term and some just updated to new versions of the game. I would bet on a new wave for Idoneth or Kharadron way higher than any new model for Beasts of Chaos outside of the specialist games.

I agree.  I think things like Skaven (just a really interesting faction already very heavy in the lore / fiction, very popular), and Free cities (gotta have a faction of just regular ol' humans) will likely get updates in the future... I can see your perspective on Beast of Chaos, although other than LoN that I can't really think of any others I would put in this group.. would be strange if they just picked 1 to keep on life support status  

I also think Legion of Nagash is very temporary. They already pulled Nighthaunt and Ossiarch Bonereapers out of it. Seems like they were trying to pull out any worthwhile plastic kits they could with those 2 releases.  There are very few modern, great plastic kits that do not already fit into one of the non-LoN death factions.  Seems like Skeletons / Grave guard can get scrapped in favor of Bonereapers.  Coven Throne / Mortis Engine really needs a home.  I suspect some Vampire/Mortals faction will come eventually, and then there is no LoN, but Nagash can be played in multiple armies.  This makes things much easier to balance. 
 

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At least with beast of chaos there a good chance of getting the other god specific Gor units since those are also tied to their respective God tome release and their 40k chaos marine equivalent.

it their vanilla stuff that has a big question mark

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3 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

Is that not what I was stating? I think that chariots or warmachines would give Ironjawz new options that differ aesthetically from Bonesplitterz. I think it would diversify the range, especially with a hero option allowing a chariot to be built in two ways, but I did not know/think that chariots were that fundamentally broken in AOS.

It‘s not the chariots that are broken. It‘s the Warchanter buff ^^. It turns any well made unit into a god-like machine of overkilling murder.

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2 hours ago, sorokyl said:


I also think Legion of Nagash is very temporary.

IIRC, there was no Legions limited edition book, right?

If so, and giving GW some credit for not selling a premium version of a stopgap book, I would think you are correct.

Edited by Sleboda

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50 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

IIRC, there was no Legions limited edition book, right?

If so, and giving GW some credit for not selling a premium version of a stopgap book, I would think you are correct.

Agreed.  Since Malignants went to live in Nighthaunt (in theory anyway), and Morghasts, Arkhan and Nagash now live in Bonereapers, it wouldn't surprise me to see a Soulblight book for Neferata and Mannfred to live in.  That would probably include Deadwalkers, Soulblight and Deathrattle as sort of a more true "Vampire Counts" army.  I'm happy to be wrong about that though, as I think Nagash is actually better in LoN as opposed to Bonereapers, so I'd be sad to see LoN go.

Edited by willange

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I would be shocked if GW didn't do a vampire army - In fact I'm more surprised that an army like Ossiarchs came before vampires considering how many books BL has made focusing on the vampires and how vampires have always been well liked. I can very much see them getting their own army and I hope it comes "soon". It's almost criminal to think that currently the most blood orientated army is Daughters of Khaine. 

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9 minutes ago, Overread said:

the most blood orientated army is Daughters of Khaine. 

*ANGRY KHORNE NOISES*

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8 hours ago, sorokyl said:

I agree.  I think things like Skaven (just a really interesting faction already very heavy in the lore / fiction, very popular), and Free cities (gotta have a faction of just regular ol' humans) will likely get updates in the future...

Well Skaven is a popular one but also pretty big. I reckon any update would be focussing on a specific clan rather than updating the main book. I think that was their idea from the beginning but then AoS 2.0 came and they did not have time to do all clans and they merged them together. For the same criteria I believe some clans will not get any update in the near future. Cities too I think it’s a soup and any other human faction will exist parallel maybe with some intersection. 

LoN has his days counted as it makes every day less sense as many units cannot be used and was always hard to balance, will see if it gets transformed or simply fades away like Tamurkhan Horde, technically still playable but most of the range not sold anymore.

Gloomspite it’s an interesting one as basically has a brand new core but seems a bit of a mash of different things that don’t really work together so will see how and if it will be expanded.

Then there’s the borderline category where certain armies may not get any new model for some time especially because extremely tied with a potential Old World release, at least until they figure that part out. Those would be the Sylvaneth and the Seraphon for example.

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4 minutes ago, Minis by Night said:

2020-02-19-dice-and-card-packs.jpg.6ecb698a4bd7c86d67f3b2bdf511fcd9.jpg

Have fun!

Huh. That's interesting. Wonder if we'll see any of that for tomorrow's announcements. Probably going to be specialist game stuff tomorrow though.

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10 minutes ago, Koradrel of Chrace said:

I'ma gonna need them dice...

i hope they're not too expensive.. I like the Stormcast dice but they feel a bit overpriced so I haven't bought them

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