The Rumour Thread

[petitionercity]

16 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

their goal of 60% of warscrolls showing up in 5% of lists might actually be nearly impossible for stormcast. 60% of 79 warscrolls is like 48. Stormcast armies tend to be elite, and run like 7-8 units? so each of the 48 units needs to show up in 1 of 20 lists, or 1 in 1~150 units.
It sounds like it might be theoretically doable, but its probably not in practice, unless you start making warscrolls identical.
I think the only solution to hit their target is to either cut warscrolls or split stormcast into separate armies.

 

Wouldn't it be best for gw to simply consolidate the scrolls of similar units into one (with more generic options) - this seems really possible with Stormcast, as so many of the units have minor differences. 

[Maogrim]

24 minutes ago, MitGas said:

Of course I do but I've already (shamelessly too, absolutely shamelessly!) admitted that I'll use every single chance to attack your Aelves! At this point you should know that I can't help myself. I'll be complaining about Lumineth Aelves on my deathbed!

I think it really boils down to Lumineth coinciding with the beginning of a perceived slower release schedule. We've had a ton of coverage of Mega-Gargants too, simply because the release pattern changed, where before many releases dropped and very soon the next force came. Pretty sure that, coupled with the second wave coming so quickly, felt unfair to many. Also, you know how it is: the fairest get bashed, it's an unwritten law. 

Eltharion is indeed a truly great mini (definitely one of GW's best), even I will give you that. 

 

True, it's the burden we carry. 😂

But I love almost every single army in Age of Sigmar, and I do think that especially Idoneth and Fyreslayers were done dirty. 

[Jetlife]

I also think some armies don't need a second wave......

Ironjawz has 10 warscrolls (8 if you subtract the Underworlds and warcry units) But they play just as they should on the table. 

I would much rather see GW spend their energy on evolving warscrolls of certain units and give them different roles within an army. As an OBR, Seraphon, IDK and Sylvaneth player I don't want anymore new units/warscrolls. I feel they have enough. I would prefer they change the concept of these units in their rules. Sometimes I feel we want models just to have models, even though so many will never be played within any army. I would even like to see them remove old outdated models and replace them with newer sculpts. An example would be, Salamanders. I would much rather see them drop a new kit with them and then just remove the the Razordon scroll completely. 

Now.... I understand that this perspective is from a competition gameplay standpoint and there is a large part of the hobby that likes to collect, paint and play narratively. However, that information is much harder to accurately quantify outside of sales data. For instance having IDK get a new large sea monster/creature would be big hype. Except then there's a high chance that that model doesn't get much play in the game or it replaces the role of the turtle that you've already paid 100$ for and now doesn't see the table. 

 

[SunStorm]

17 minutes ago, Jetlife said:

I also think some armies don't need a second wave......

Ironjawz has 10 warscrolls (8 if you subtract the Underworlds and warcry units) But they play just as they should on the table. 

As an Ironjwz collector (rather than gamer), I'd like to see some additional sculpts, maybe not brand new units, as like you say we have a pretty thematic force right now. 

But a mounted hero (shamen/priest on goregrunta equivalent, for example) would be a nice addition. 

I'll also take more alternative sculpts like the limited edition ones we've had (Warhammer+ Megaboss and Bawla Brute)

[Ganigumo]

1 hour ago, petitionercity said:

Wouldn't it be best for gw to simply consolidate the scrolls of similar units into one (with more generic options) - this seems really possible with Stormcast, as so many of the units have minor differences. 

absolutely, but I doubt they'll do it. Vindictors could've probably just been liberators with spears as an example.

18 minutes ago, SunStorm said:

As an Ironjwz collector (rather than gamer), I'd like to see some additional sculpts, maybe not brand new units, as like you say we have a pretty thematic force right now. 

But a mounted hero (shamen/priest on goregrunta equivalent, for example) would be a nice addition. 

I'll also take more alternative sculpts like the limited edition ones we've had (Warhammer+ Megaboss and Bawla Brute)

I agree they don't really need brand new scrolls, but new 'ardboyz would be nice.
I also have a soft spot for the 8th ed boar boy kit and wouldn't hate if they brought that kit back we got 'ardboy riders, even if they might not have much of a role.

[SunStorm]

18 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

I agree they don't really need brand new scrolls, but new 'ardboyz would be nice.
I also have a soft spot for the 8th ed boar boy kit and wouldn't hate if they brought that kit back we got 'ardboy riders, even if they might not have much of a role.

Oh Ardboyz, yes. I often forget about them as I dislike the sculpts so much. My own Ardboyz are a mix of the WHU warband and Blood Bowl sculpts. 

Weirdly I do like the boar boyz as you mention them. I actually am working my way through building a unit of them as they exist in AoS Legends and the OnePageRules. I have to not look at how much they go for on ebay now, else I'd be thinking about selling them off rather than building/painting them

Edited November 11, 2022 by SunStorm

[Malakithe]

57 minutes ago, Jetlife said:

I also think some armies don't need a second wave......

Ironjawz has 10 warscrolls (8 if you subtract the Underworlds and warcry units) But they play just as they should on the table. 

I would much rather see GW spend their energy on evolving warscrolls of certain units and give them different roles within an army. As an OBR, Seraphon, IDK and Sylvaneth player I don't want anymore new units/warscrolls. I feel they have enough. I would prefer they change the concept of these units in their rules. Sometimes I feel we want models just to have models, even though so many will never be played within any army. I would even like to see them remove old outdated models and replace them with newer sculpts. An example would be, Salamanders. I would much rather see them drop a new kit with them and then just remove the the Razordon scroll completely. 

Now.... I understand that this perspective is from a competition gameplay standpoint and there is a large part of the hobby that likes to collect, paint and play narratively. However, that information is much harder to accurately quantify outside of sales data. For instance having IDK get a new large sea monster/creature would be big hype. Except then there's a high chance that that model doesn't get much play in the game or it replaces the role of the turtle that you've already paid 100$ for and now doesn't see the table. 

 

As a former IJ and Fyreslayers player I absolutely believe that small limited factions need more units. Those small are so one dimensional there is no room for creativity list to list. The only difference is someone might take one less of this unit or add one more of that unit.

You talk about different roles but that is not possible. Look at OBR. You talk about evolving the warscrolls for different roles but a catapult is a catapult. Thats not changing. Spearmen are spearmen...dudes on horses will always be calvary. Theres no changing/evolving that. What OBR needs is more infantry diversity just like IJ and Fyreslayers need other stuff. 

And yes some units dont see play and thats on GW for making the statlines bad or points bad or slotting too many units into the same role to compete with eachother i.e Stormcast.

So in closing...GW, add more stuff to my first 2 AoS factions! lol

[Jetlife]

5 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

As a former IJ and Fyreslayers player I absolutely believe that small limited factions need more units. Those small are so one dimensional there is no room for creativity list to list. The only difference is someone might take one less of this unit or add one more of that unit.

You talk about different roles but that is not possible. Look at OBR. You talk about evolving the warscrolls for different roles but a catapult is a catapult. Thats not changing. Spearmen are spearmen...dudes on horses will always be calvary. Theres no changing/evolving that. What OBR needs is more infantry diversity just like IJ and Fyreslayers need other stuff. 

And yes some units dont see play and thats on GW for making the statlines bad or points bad or slotting too many units into the same role to compete with eachother i.e Stormcast.

So in closing...GW, add more stuff to my first 2 AoS factions! lol

Fyreslayers are the exception to all of this, simply because they have a a decent amount of warscrolls. (Double of IJ) but, suffer from un-imaginative design. As far as IJ the ability to basically use everything you can collect from an army is pretty cool. Again, I think their is a blurred line between what we want and what an army needs. Analytically, external and internal balance of IJ is damn near perfect. 

For OBR there is evolving. They have a variety of heroes that could be altered and/or Immortis guard, Harvester and two versions of Morghasts. I personally don't think much needs changing except for a 3.0 battletome upgrade. 

At the end of the day, we only have 2000 points to play with. Right now as all armies stand, there are roughly 803 warscrolls in the game with only 509 being used at least 5% in lists. that means only 63% of the current warscrolls/units are seeing the table. Even if we subtract stromcast from the data we are still only using 66% of warscrolls/ units in the game. To me personally, that seems too low. Adding more units/warscrolls to armies is only going to bring that number down even more. 

 

[JerekKruger]

1 hour ago, SunStorm said:

As an Ironjwz collector (rather than gamer), I'd like to see some additional sculpts, maybe not brand new units, as like you say we have a pretty thematic force right now. 

But a mounted hero (shamen/priest on goregrunta equivalent, for example) would be a nice addition. 

I'll also take more alternative sculpts like the limited edition ones we've had (Warhammer+ Megaboss and Bawla Brute)

I'd like to see new sculpts of Ard Boyz, and a mounted hero, but otherwise I don't think the army needs any new units.

Having alternative sculpts would be great: if you have loads of Gore Gruntaz the duplicates start to be visible, as does having two Maw Krushas.

[JackStreicher]

3 hours ago, petitionercity said:

Wouldn't it be best for gw to simply consolidate the scrolls of similar units into one (with more generic options) - this seems really possible with Stormcast, as so many of the units have minor differences. 

I agree.

They could basically fill one page per subspecies of infantry Stormcasts:

Knights - Choose specialisation name and get 1-2 abilities. Weapon freely choosable (conversions! Wuhuuu)

Lord - The same

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by JackStreicher

[Freypal]

4 hours ago, petitionercity said:

Wouldn't it be best for gw to simply consolidate the scrolls of similar units into one (with more generic options) - this seems really possible with Stormcast, as so many of the units have minor differences. 

I've wondered on this too...

Take  Dracothian Guard... Tempestors, Concussors and Desolators... 3 warscrolls could become 1. The only rules variation seems to be down to the weapons anyway?  

[Malakithe]

Its funny to talk about consolidating warscroll when GW did the exact opposite for Vulkites and split them into separate units based on weapons. That right there is a good reason to add more units to a roster. All that did was superficially inflate their roster but in other cases they actually collapse most weapon options into one profile. 

[willange]

Regarding Ironjawz "not needing more models".

First off, agreed.  They don't NeEeEeD more models, but they could have them and they could be AWESOME!

Second, acknowledge that each of the orruk tribes/warclans has the a "thing" that they do in the lore (and to a degree in their rules).  Bonesplitterz are basically magic/waaagh.  Ironjawz are brutality/beefiness.  Kruleboyz are cunning/manipulation.  However, they all borrow from each other.  Ironjawz have magic and waaagh energy.  Kruleboyz have big brutal monsters.  Bonesplitterz love to be brutish and hack things apart.  They each have their "thing", but they build off that do kind of do other things too.

So where does that leave Ironjawz?  Let's dive in:

New warmachine: Bashin' Ead
The Bashin' Ead initially brings to mind a Bonesplitterz Big Stabba.  However, it's larger, like a giant battering ram.  Orruk'd by 3 brutes, two near the front by the "Ead" and one at the back helping push.  This puts it on a relatively large base.  The "Ead" of this ram is "fashioned" in the likeness of Gork.  As with more ironjawz manufacture, it is made of beaten iron in the shape of Gork's head.  Within the head, there are magical bones and rocks which channel the energy of the waaagh.  Because of this and despite the fact that this model is not a monster, it can use monstrous rampages as it it were.  It has a high damage attack profile (3 or 4) with generous rend (-2 or -3) with only a small number of attacks, balance to taste.  It helps in the role of high rend, and due to it's non-monster status be a fair monster killer, being able to titanic duel without a matching reprisal.  

New elite infantry: Steel Crushas
Most Brutes consider the over-armored nature of the 'Ardboyz to signify weakness.  They themselves only wearing minimal armor due to their large frames and their desire for greater range of movement.  Steel Crushas have no such reservations.  They armor fully and eschew weaponry in favor of wielding two large slabs of pig iron that somewhat approximate shields.  Mechanically, the have only a 3" move and cannot run, but when accompanied by sufficient numbers of nearby Orruks, the waaagh energy swells within them and these limitations are lessened.  They don't have much rend (maybe 1), but they have some charge damage on them and count as more models on an objective.  They also have a baseline 2+ save and gain a small mortal wound ward when empowered by the waaagh.  The theme here is tankiness and objective capture.  

New hero: Mega-boss on Gore-grunta
Not a lot to say here, but now you can do a somewhat smaller (but still mobile) mounted hero.

Endless Spells:
I've posted about these before, but we NEEEEEEED foot of gork.  Can share with other warclans.

You could do more of course.  These are just examples

 

[KingBrodd]

Id argue that all Factions need more models because based off of what I read online about with fear and loathing coming from new Editions and Tomes, that the rules arent why people play GW games. Its their minis!!

GIVE ME A WARBOSS WORTHY OF THE NAME!! GIVE ME A FOMOROID CRUSHER SIZED WARBOSS CLAD IN METAL WAAAAAAGH!

[Neverchosen]

I have always wanted to see a Goregrunta Chariot pulling a hunk of scrap metal like a plow that can either have two brutes or a massive warboss.

I have also stated many times if they develop siege rules or even just more expanded terrain interactions I feel like Iron Jawz could have some great close combat battering weapons. A massive metal battering ram or a large Orruk with wrecking balls!

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

I think the right number of warscrolls is contextual to the faction and to the existing scrolls. Ironjawz are close to perfect in executing their faction concept, and there are very few things even possible to add that don't dilute that, IMO. Warboss on gore-grunta or similar mounted but non-monster hero is pretty much the only thing I've heard suggested that works for them without disrupting what they have going on (which is currently great, IMO). Ironjawz are the all gas, no brakes, throw your force into the jaws of the enemy and laugh as they drown in a tide of Green faction. It works.

Fyreslayers technically have more scrolls, but I'd argue they have less variety. In IJ, every unit serves a distinct role and purpose, and mixing and matching allows you to fine tune in interesting ways (although this was better balanced before the errata gave pigs Rend -2 on the one weapon option). In FS, there's...Berserker Unit, Berserker Unit 2, Literally just Berserker Unit but Better, and then one other non-hero unit that isn't the exact same role as the other three ("elite" isn't a role, it's a cost). And then you have Combat Monster, Combat Monster 2, Combat Monster 3 but it's also a Priest so Slightly Different, and so on. At least Lofnir differentiates Runesons and Runefathers for Oops All Droths, but there's plenty of room within the Fyreslayers idiom for other concepts. Ranged units already exist for them, so something like a Magma Cannon as an artillery piece isn't far out of whack. Small minidroths but in a cav unit isn't outside their milieu. You could leverage these small bits of variety present into good amounts of variety without changing the faction identity--but you also could never get them to Stormcast levels of scrolls without breaking the faction, because not even Stormcast should have that many scrolls.

Basically, I'd be fine with anywhere single digit warscroll numbers in a few cases to 30-40 in others, but it has to make sense for the faction and fit their design in gameplay, lore, and aesthetic. Some factions make sense with big rosters. Others don't, but could still benefit from a scroll or two sometimes.

[Joseph Mackay]

13 hours ago, Jetlife said:

I also think some armies don't need a second wave......

Ironjawz has 10 warscrolls (8 if you subtract the Underworlds and warcry units) But they play just as they should on the table. 

I would much rather see GW spend their energy on evolving warscrolls of certain units and give them different roles within an army. As an OBR, Seraphon, IDK and Sylvaneth player I don't want anymore new units/warscrolls. I feel they have enough. I would prefer they change the concept of these units in their rules. Sometimes I feel we want models just to have models, even though so many will never be played within any army. I would even like to see them remove old outdated models and replace them with newer sculpts. An example would be, Salamanders. I would much rather see them drop a new kit with them and then just remove the the Razordon scroll completely. 

Now.... I understand that this perspective is from a competition gameplay standpoint and there is a large part of the hobby that likes to collect, paint and play narratively. However, that information is much harder to accurately quantify outside of sales data. For instance having IDK get a new large sea monster/creature would be big hype. Except then there's a high chance that that model doesn't get much play in the game or it replaces the role of the turtle that you've already paid 100$ for and now doesn't see the table. 

 

The problem is, it’s the ones who need it least (Stormcast, Lumineth etc) that tend to get these ‘second waves’ 😔

[cofaxest]

3 hours ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

I think the right number of warscrolls is contextual to the faction and to the existing scrolls. Ironjawz are close to perfect in executing their faction concept, and there are very few things even possible to add that don't dilute that, IMO. Warboss on gore-grunta or similar mounted but non-monster hero is pretty much the only thing I've heard suggested that works for them without disrupting what they have going on (which is currently great, IMO). Ironjawz are the all gas, no brakes, throw your force into the jaws of the enemy and laugh as they drown in a tide of Green faction. It works.

Fyreslayers technically have more scrolls, but I'd argue they have less variety. In IJ, every unit serves a distinct role and purpose, and mixing and matching allows you to fine tune in interesting ways (although this was better balanced before the errata gave pigs Rend -2 on the one weapon option). In FS, there's...Berserker Unit, Berserker Unit 2, Literally just Berserker Unit but Better, and then one other non-hero unit that isn't the exact same role as the other three ("elite" isn't a role, it's a cost). And then you have Combat Monster, Combat Monster 2, Combat Monster 3 but it's also a Priest so Slightly Different, and so on. At least Lofnir differentiates Runesons and Runefathers for Oops All Droths, but there's plenty of room within the Fyreslayers idiom for other concepts. Ranged units already exist for them, so something like a Magma Cannon as an artillery piece isn't far out of whack. Small minidroths but in a cav unit isn't outside their milieu. You could leverage these small bits of variety present into good amounts of variety without changing the faction identity--but you also could never get them to Stormcast levels of scrolls without breaking the faction, because not even Stormcast should have that many scrolls.

Basically, I'd be fine with anywhere single digit warscroll numbers in a few cases to 30-40 in others, but it has to make sense for the faction and fit their design in gameplay, lore, and aesthetic. Some factions make sense with big rosters. Others don't, but could still benefit from a scroll or two sometimes.

1) Runedaughter/Runemother - Female priest+ hero on palankine with 4 FS holding it.

2) Flame cannon/Magma mortar - warmachine artillery. Can be used in dispossessed army

3) Sparks - 1w unit with 1 rune in their body. Have runic armour and weapon to compinsate the lack of ur-gold. Can be taken as melee unit with throwing axes or more 50/50 unit with javelins. 

4) Valykraz - flying female with 2 small kharadron spheres behind her. Can be armed with flamepikes. Can be used in Kharadron army

5) Gholems (3 types - 1 for each duardin army. Magma gholem for FS, Stone gholem for Dispossessed and Flying Iron gholem for KO.

[Jagged Red Lines]

The only thing that fyreslayers need are mobility options. Personally I'd like to see either mini magmadroth cavalry, or a chariot unit. I'd also like to see a unit of female beserkers.

[JerekKruger]

7 hours ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

I think the right number of warscrolls is contextual to the faction and to the existing scrolls. Ironjawz are close to perfect in executing their faction concept, and there are very few things even possible to add that don't dilute that, IMO. Warboss on gore-grunta or similar mounted but non-monster hero is pretty much the only thing I've heard suggested that works for them without disrupting what they have going on (which is currently great, IMO). Ironjawz are the all gas, no brakes, throw your force into the jaws of the enemy and laugh as they drown in a tide of Green faction. It works.

Fyreslayers technically have more scrolls, but I'd argue they have less variety. In IJ, every unit serves a distinct role and purpose, and mixing and matching allows you to fine tune in interesting ways (although this was better balanced before the errata gave pigs Rend -2 on the one weapon option). In FS, there's...Berserker Unit, Berserker Unit 2, Literally just Berserker Unit but Better, and then one other non-hero unit that isn't the exact same role as the other three ("elite" isn't a role, it's a cost). And then you have Combat Monster, Combat Monster 2, Combat Monster 3 but it's also a Priest so Slightly Different, and so on. At least Lofnir differentiates Runesons and Runefathers for Oops All Droths, but there's plenty of room within the Fyreslayers idiom for other concepts. Ranged units already exist for them, so something like a Magma Cannon as an artillery piece isn't far out of whack. Small minidroths but in a cav unit isn't outside their milieu. You could leverage these small bits of variety present into good amounts of variety without changing the faction identity--but you also could never get them to Stormcast levels of scrolls without breaking the faction, because not even Stormcast should have that many scrolls.

Basically, I'd be fine with anywhere single digit warscroll numbers in a few cases to 30-40 in others, but it has to make sense for the faction and fit their design in gameplay, lore, and aesthetic. Some factions make sense with big rosters. Others don't, but could still benefit from a scroll or two sometimes.

Yea this is pretty much where I stand in it. I wouldn't want Iron Jawz to move (slowly) towards where Stormcast are, with loads of redundant units many of which are just worse versions of others.

I live @Neverchosen's idea of a Gore Grunta chariot, I think a mounted hero would work (though if the chariot happened that would probably fit that niche) and a non-hero monster sounds good too. Oh, let a warchanter ride the chariot too (also giving us an alternative warchanter sculpt whilst we're at it).

Beyond that I don't think the faction has space for anything more from a gameplay perspective. Personally I'd then far prefer GW makes me sculpts for Ard Boyz, and more variety for Brutes and Gore Gruntas. I think the first of those two will happen eventually (Ard Boyz don't quite fit alongside other Iron Jawz) but I am not holding my breath on the second as I think it's probably financially a bad idea (people will still want roughly the same number of models of each unit, so you're splitting your sales across two kits: worse, if one kit is less popular you'll have spent time and money on a kit that doesn't sell well). I suppose they could go the way they are with Chaos Knights, and make an upgrade sprue which is included with future boxes, whilst also raising the price.

Of course, as @KingBrodd says, GW are probably a miniatures company, not a game company, so I expect we'll slowly but surely get new units added to all factions to drive sales, regardless of whether they improve the gameplay or not (see the new Ogor Hunter).

Edited November 12, 2022 by JerekKruger

[MitGas]

9 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

The problem is, it’s the ones who need it least (Stormcast, Lumineth etc) that tend to get these ‘second waves’ 😔

Oh Stormcast already had their third wave + desserts at this point. 😂 The newer minis since the kruleboy box (plus dragons!) are certainly a great upgrade visually (at least to me) but they had units sharing the same function/spot when they introduced the wizard-y ones already… I don‘t think even Space Marines had that little thought put into their overall roster and they can sell anything if it‘s SM 🤔

 

 

[xking]

Anybody want to guess what's going to be released the first half of next year?

[JerekKruger]

1 minute ago, xking said:

Anybody want to guess what's going to be released the first half of next year?

the rest of the Slaves line, along with their Battletome, will be the first specific AoS release. Beyond that I haven't got a clue, but I hope Gitz get a book soon (I'd also love Hedonites to get a better Battletome, but given their last one was relatively late in AoS 2 they might have to wait).

[EntMan]

Just now, JerekKruger said:

the rest of the Slaves line, along with their Battletome, will be the first specific AoS release. Beyond that I haven't got a clue, but I hope Gitz get a book soon (I'd also love Hedonites to get a better Battletome, but given their last one was relatively late in AoS 2 they might have to wait).

I've lost track, which factions haven't had a 3.0 Tome yet?

I think I'd rule out Cities for first half of next year, think they'll drag it out for longer.

[Draznak]

24 minutes ago, xking said:

Anybody want to guess what's going to be released the first half of next year?

It's already known for 40k : Astra Militarum in January, World Eaters in mid-February (according to a usually rather well-informed French youtuber), the Arks of Omen campaign until July with the 10th edition of 40k.

AoS ? Uh... Wait...🥲 (apart from COS of course, but I would be greatly surprised if they were released in the 2023 first half)

 

edit : I forgot the rest of minis for STD in January probably (too much resentment towards 40k popularity ^^).

Edited November 12, 2022 by Draznak