The Rumour Thread

[Mutton]

The gaslighting in that video of how powerful Seraphon are is mildly infuriating. They act like it's been balancing itself out somehow, but they are and have been the most overpowered faction in the game. The stuff they can take and do is egregious. Multiple people at my shop refuse to play against them, it's that bad.

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

11 minutes ago, Mutton said:

The gaslighting in that video of how powerful Seraphon are is mildly infuriating. They act like it's been balancing itself out somehow, but they are and have been the most overpowered faction in the game. The stuff they can take and do is egregious. Multiple people at my shop refuse to play against them, it's that bad.

"Gaslighting" is a strong term to use for a game about toy soldiers.  I mean I don't really give a hoot about how people choose to phrase their thoughts - how can anyone truly consider themselves The Authority over personal expression?  That's just how I feel about it.  I won't push the point since I know that's my stance and all.  No need to bring it into the AoS Rumor Thread.  Just something I feel should be pointed out.

[Ogregut]

34 minutes ago, Mutton said:

The gaslighting in that video of how powerful Seraphon are is mildly infuriating. They act like it's been balancing itself out somehow, but they are and have been the most overpowered faction in the game. The stuff they can take and do is egregious. Multiple people at my shop refuse to play against them, it's that bad.

They aren't that bad. 

Do they need bringing in line with other 3rd edition books? Absolutely. 

Can they be beaten? Absolutely. 

My first game at the tournament was againest a Lord Kroak list. The hero phase was crazy, way to many things going on but the army can be taken down. 

In the final results, 2nd place was taken by lizards as was dead last. 

[JackStreicher]

8 hours ago, EccentricCircle said:

Agreed. I'm dismayed by how many people are saying "well done for owning thr mistake and fixing it with errata" . We shouldn't need errata, the books should be good in the first place. I hate that gw have bred a culture where we expect to buy unbalanced books and aplaude them when they change the rules two weeks later. They will sell this book for at least a couple of years, faults and all.

If they really can't playtest things robustly without community input then they should sposhing well switch to open playtesting. Release every book's rules six months before it goes to print. Let everyone play it, and then release a fine tuned version when it's ready. Plenty of other companies do just that and people still buy the books. If anything its free marketing.

If they are serious about fixing this book then they should reprint it. Delay the release and let everyone have the actual rules in their book and not tucked in the back on a bit of paper.

I agree by 120.457%

 

Edit: @Mutton my biggest issue with Seraphon is the way they play: The whole  ordinary Saurus side consists of pillowfisted push-overs, while their shooting and magic is absurd. To me that is almost the direct opposite of how they should play.

(the -1dmg ability us overtuned af imo)

And in general (imo) AoS has been derailed to suit the minority of players (competetive). All of those layers of secondaries, primaries, Batallions, (overtuned) realm rules, Incarnates etc. is something that puts me off.

I intend to play a game of AoS with my gf yesterday and quit the moment I needed to select a batallion, while remembering the rat‘s tail of primaries, bounty hunter and all of that nonsense. 🤷🏼‍♂️ At this point I could play 40K instead.

Edited September 30, 2022 by JackStreicher

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

9 hours ago, EccentricCircle said:

Agreed. I'm dismayed by how many people are saying "well done for owning thr mistake and fixing it with errata" . We shouldn't need errata, the books should be good in the first place. I hate that gw have bred a culture where we expect to buy unbalanced books and aplaude them when they change the rules two weeks later. They will sell this book for at least a couple of years, faults and all.

If they really can't playtest things robustly without community input then they should sposhing well switch to open playtesting. Release every book's rules six months before it goes to print. Let everyone play it, and then release a fine tuned version when it's ready. Plenty of other companies do just that and people still buy the books. If anything its free marketing.

If they are serious about fixing this book then they should reprint it. Delay the release and let everyone have the actual rules in their book and not tucked in the back on a bit of paper.

This sentiment is right, I think: GW are the biggest tabletop wargaming company and should definitely improve their processes so that something like this does not happen.

But I think we also need to recognize that this swift downloadable rule fix before the army is fully out is still a good response. We all want blunders like this to preferably not happen at all in the future, but actually putting out a fix rapidly instead of waiting 3 months for the next scheduled balance data slate is by no means the worst they could have handled this.

[EccentricCircle]

9 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

This sentiment is right, I think: GW are the biggest tabletop wargaming company and should definitely improve their processes so that something like this does not happen.

But I think we also need to recognize that this swift downloadable rule fix before the army is fully out is still a good response. We all want blunders like this to preferably not happen at all in the future, but actually putting out a fix rapidly instead of waiting 3 months for the next scheduled balance data slate is by no means the worst they could have handled this.

My concern is this. At the moment Votan is in je news, everyone has heard they are over powered. We know if we want to play them we need that errata.

Except that a lot of people don't follow the news that closely. Casual players won't know to look for corrected rules, and in six months to a year's time, as the release controversy fades, that will become more and more of an issue.

that said i've yet to read these rules so don't know how bad it really is or whether this is a storm in a teacup. Casual players may not find over powered rules as much of an issue since player skill puts far bigger error bars on army power level than most competitive players realise. However, it could easily swing the other way  and make balancing casual games even harder.

Now from an environmental standpoint I don't think they should just pulp thousands of books, but they do need to be more careful about what they release. 

it's good to know that aos is in a better place at the moment than 40k. Lets just hope that lasts.

[Beliman]

15 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

This sentiment is right, I think: GW are the biggest tabletop wargaming company and should definitely improve their processes so that something like this does not happen.

But I think we also need to recognize that this swift downloadable rule fix before the army is fully out is still a good response. We all want blunders like this to preferably not happen at all in the future, but actually putting out a fix rapidly instead of waiting 3 months for the next scheduled balance data slate is by no means the worst they could have handled this.

100% with this. We are talking about two things, and we expect to have the same answer for both:

1. A book that becomes invalidated in less than a month
2. An imbalance on a 1vs1 game that needs to be fixe'd

I completely agree that point 1) is inadmisible for a company like GW. But I completely agree with point 2), when there is something broken that can handicap all the games for your 400-600€ army, should be fixe'd asap.

About League of Votann, I'm fine with the points, but I'm a bit sad about some of our interactions. Some of our weapons, warscrolls and subfactions have a bonus on a roll of 6s to wound, but our Votann battle trait stops (autowound if using grudges) stops our abilities to work. I'm not talking about how OP this is, but at least, you should have an oportunity to "roll" that wound to see if you score a 6s (even if you autowounded). Who are going to play with the nomad dudes from Tran-hyperion Alliance that their own battle trait blocks their main custom ability?

Maybe they need to create a more grounded and rigid structure for the whole game before start writing all books...

 

[Rachmani]

13 hours ago, Gothmaug said:

Destruction has an identity problem, as its a very narrow focus, and tends to pigeonhole armies into Orruk clones (ie brutish rampaging forces of destruction). That's an issue that's been discussed here in depth before. The only easy design space I see left for destruction that gives a portrayal vastly different than brutish, smashy humanoids is a devouring swarm type army ala-tyrranids. Something like a horde of mindless locusts that devour everything around them, with no thought of morality. 

With the rumored 40K 10th edition starter box supposedly being Tyrranids vs. Blood Angels, I would love to see a tyrranid line revamp that crossed the 40K/AoS barrier, similar to how chaos demons work.  Hordes of the "Silent ones" awaken, answering some primordial urge (like cicadas) and swarm up from below ground, devouring all that's in their path. New Hormagaunts and Carnifexes, and a pile of other new bugs to terrify the mortal realms. Doesn't even have to be tyrranid related, but if I was GW, I'd link the two lines and promote my unique IP for increased exposure and sales. 

 

How's that for a Rumor? 🤪

 

To be fair, they designed themselves into a corner, when the made ogors and SoB Orc clones (in charakter).

Nothing would have stopped them to put emphasis on let’s say, how clever and reasonable ogors actually were if they wouldn’t be overwhelmed by streaks of intense hunger. There was room for nuance. 
Somewhat civilised brutes with streaks of ravaging hunger.

[Gaz Taylor]

+++ Mod Hat On +++
Can we talk about the Meta Watch in a separate topic please?

Thanks

[Gitzdee]

2 hours ago, Rachmani said:

To be fair, they designed themselves into a corner, when the made ogors and SoB Orc clones (in charakter).

Nothing would have stopped them to put emphasis on let’s say, how clever and reasonable ogors actually were if they wouldn’t be overwhelmed by streaks of intense hunger. There was room for nuance. 
Somewhat civilised brutes with streaks of ravaging hunger.

I dont have any problems with the destruction armies at the moment. Orruks cover the brutal part with a love for krumpin everything. Gitz are cunning evil things that could give me nightmares. SoB and Ogors round out Destruction well. Imo the question is where to go next with a potential new army (if it ever happens). I think something like Silent People awakening and devouring all would fit. Something like tau could also work in a AoS setting.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Gitzdee

[Vasshpit]

Id much rather see existing armies get polished and model design up to date (looking at ogors and spiderfang gits) before we get a new army that just causes further delays to this. Then drop the shiny new bombs!!!

[Gitzdee]

22 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

Id much rather see existing armies get polished and model design up to date (looking at ogors and spiderfang gits) before we get a new army that just causes further delays to this. Then drop the shiny new bombs!!!

I would also prefer this. Spiderfang, ogors, ironjawz, bonesplitterz could all use a 2nd wave, updated models or both.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Gitzdee

[Sonnenspeer]

Still waiting for the Idoneth Crab Riders

[EntMan]

49 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

Something like tau could also work in a AoS setting.

Isn't this sort of what Cities are? Different races/species working for the greater good, especially if you include their ally and coalition options.

[Gitzdee]

13 minutes ago, EntMan said:

Isn't this sort of what Cities are? Different races/species working for the greater good, especially if you include their ally and coalition options.

Cities are more like a group of people that have a common goal (not dying in a new world) imo. Tau are more like communists alien empire enforcing their will.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Gitzdee

[Flippy]

12 minutes ago, EntMan said:

Isn't this sort of what Cities are? Different races/species working for the greater good, especially if you include their ally and coalition options.

For me to use the Tau trope would be to introduce a different civilisation entirely which is: (i) highly advanced in this way or the other (e.g. technology on par with CoS and/or Kharadron); (ii) not Humans, Elves, Dwarfs, Halflings etc. - something new; (iii) not aligned with Chaos and existing Order pantheon in any way; (iv) previously unknown to other factions; (v) having their own view on how to tame and civilise the Mortal Realms, which puts them against both Chaos and the Sigmar's plan (crusading and establishing cities); (vi) powerful enough not to ally with any major players, and maybe even draw some of them to their cause.

Of the new armies, Lumineth and OBR came closest - but not close enough.  

[The Red King]

14 hours ago, Augusto said:

many people buys them for the lore and art

Consistently reused art and maybe 2 pages of new lore for a 60 dollar book?

[Malakithe]

Unrelated note: I hope all you guys in Florida are safe and dry

[Sahrial]

1 minute ago, Malakithe said:

Unrelated note: I hope all you guys in Florida are safe and dry

No one in Florida is ever both safe and dry.

Oh ****** you meant about the hurricane

[Mattrulesok]

6 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:

+++ Mod Hat On +++
Can we talk about the Meta Watch in a separate topic please?

Thanks

So I don't want to derail the conversation or suggest that it's not great you guys are using your time to moderate these forums but there was a discussion a few pages back about why TGA seemed to have slowed down and there was less chat.

 

There was a pretty interesting and completely rational/friendly discussion happening in this thread that is now shut down,which is a common occurrence, participants are always encouraged to make a new thread discussing the topic but it rarely happens. I appreciate that this is the "Rumours" thread but it's often used as the general chat thread, there aren't enough consistent rumours to keep this thread alive daily but in its place interesting discussion about all things Warhammer constantly pop up. Is it worth continually squashing these conversations in the hopes new threads that are never actually started will appear or should this just become the general/rumours thread or something to that effect?

 

Again I'm not here to dismiss the mods or take shots, I just know that this is the main thread I come to read and it's disheartening to constantly see interesting discussion squashed because it doesn't align with the thread title.

Edit: quick edit to say not everyone might feel this way and that's totally fair but for me it's been a frustration for awhile 

2nd edit: To clarify I specifically am referring to discussion being shut down for being off topic, the mods here are fantastic at shutting down arguments, people getting carried away and  bigoted language or discussion ❤️

Edited September 30, 2022 by Mattrulesok

[Koala]

Well to be honest you could just open a new thread. 

I dare say the rumour thread being about rumours is kindof expected.

I must agree on the rather rational/friendly discussion, though: tga is my only fan forum where i have not yet had to put people on my ignore list...

 

Btw: have we got any rumours about the bew slaves to darkness RULES? 

I only remember a lot of spoilered new model pictures.

[Gothmaug]

Honestly I use this specific thread as my AoS news outlet, for all things interesting AoS related. I love the rumors, but honestly, AoS rumors/spoilers have been very thin this year, and I enjoy the occasional tangents this thread takes. DO I want this thread to evolve into a deep dive on the games tournament Meta? No. Do I enjoy a dip into those waters for a page or two of discussion here? Absolutely! 

Now if GW would just hurry up and leak some info for Warhammer Day next week, we could all get on to speculating on what cool models we might see during the presentation!

[Sahrial]

I’m only heading into my second year of playing AoS and I don’t know what the normal rumor cycle looks like. This thread had been great for me to get general news and opinions with. It feels like a (usually) healthy flow of discussion that grows organically from those news sources.

The mods are good about quashing it when it gets unhealthy, or mean spirited, or too off topic. I think healthy discussions could be allowed to continue longer. That’s my two CP.

[Grimrock]

26 minutes ago, Koala said:

Well to be honest you could just open a new thread. 

I dare say the rumour thread being about rumours is kindof expected.

I must agree on the rather rational/friendly discussion, though: tga is my only fan forum where i have not yet had to put people on my ignore list...

 

Btw: have we got any rumours about the bew slaves to darkness RULES? 

I only remember a lot of spoilered new model pictures.

Not much. They showed a few warscrolls and a table of contents and that's about it. If I remember it was the Daemon Prince (purely warscroll wise he's had a pretty big nerf), the new ogroids (they look like glass cannons with good damage output) and the new be'lakor varanguard hero (nothing too exciting). All pretty useless until we get more info like points and allegiance abilities.

[Gothmaug]

Heck, I wouldn't have ever picked up Warhammer Age of Sigmar if it wasn't for some pictures I saw online of Chris Tomlin's Ironjaws conversions. Tracking more of those photos down led me here, and started my fall down the rabbit hole of tabletop wargaming. 

Now I've got multiple armies, a plastic pile of shame, and a lot of fun!