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Grimrock last won the day on June 19 2022
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Maybe we'll get lucky and GW will finally give us fully fleshed out terrain rules in 4th edition like 40k has had for what... 4 years now? Incorporate rules like breachable, more cover and line of sight blocking, better rules for vertical engagement, the whole nine yards. Then they can actually give us a good varied batch of terrain tailored to the new rules so even people that don't play the two launch factions will want to pick up the starter set. Eh, who am I kidding. We're stuck with stuff that gets in the way, stuff that sort of gets in the way, and stuff that really gets in the way. No point in hoping for anything different.
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The problem is it's usually false choice. 90% of the time there's a clear best choice in game terms, meaning you're just handicapping yourself if you take the inferior choice. The only purpose it really serves is to give GW something to arbitrarily nerf to drive more sales on the kit. "Halberds have been the obvious choice for two editions? Well now we've reduced their hit roll by 1 and added a special rule for two hand weapons to give +4 attacks on the charge! Shame you didn't magnetize! But here's a bunch of new kits you could buy..."
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That would be awesome. I've been wanting a Tyranid kill team box with a bunch of infested terrain ever since they did the orks at launch. We haven't had official Tyranid terrain for forever and I'd love to add some to my table at home without trying to navigate 3d printing services.
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Considering the earlier rumor said it was Be'lakor themed I would have expected a box or two of Chaos Legionnaires since they're devoted to him and have synergy with Eternus. I'd be very surprised if they aren't included.
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Neurogaunts too. I'm assuming they'll come out in a box like the royal court for necrons a few months from now. Super annoying because I'd love to pick up a unit or two of the gaunts but no way I want any more neurotyrants. Worst part of their monopose box sets and I really don't know why they're still cutting mixed sprues like that.
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I was thinking about this last night and trying to figure out my stance on it. I don't think I would ever tell an opponent they couldn't use old models or proxy or whatever. Certainly I haven't said 'no' yet. If someone has cool models they like and painted or a list they want to try out before they sink their money into it who am I to refuse? Plus honestly I'm usually just happy to get a game in for once. I think my restrictions with models are mostly self imposed. Apart from a conversion or two, I don't want to confuse my opponent with too much or have to spend a bunch of time saying 'this model is that, that model is this etc.' and then have to repeat it 10 more times throughout the game. The pre-game dialogue is long enough already trying to make sure they aren't going to be caught in any gotchas or rule interactions they haven't seen before. If I was playing against a buddy that had seen my army before then sure, it's easy enough. But against a stranger it feels hard enough just trying to get going without the extra preamble. I would definitely hesitate on house rules because the lack of familiarity with the opponent. Like if I played with a person for a while and I kept winning and it feels like there's not much my opponent could do then I'd be happy enough to tweak something to make it more balanced, but if it's a first or second time then house rules don't really make any sense. I don't know how good a player they are and they don't know how good I am. Tweaks and changes could be entirely unnecessary and skew the game too far one way or the other. Legends rules are similar, I have no idea what the balance is going to be. If I can look over the rules and get a decent feel for them quickly then sure, but again that just adds to that pregame preamble. So I guess it just comes down to that invisible social contract when I go to play a game. Trying to make it a fun experience for my opponent and not bogging it down too much. That can change easily depending on familiarity but when you're going in blind it becomes much trickier.
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See that's exactly what I'm talking about. You can play with your friends in a tight group where you can modify and tweak rules and use outdated models all you want. For me the game is played entirely at a LGS with matched play rules where the majority of the time I have either very little or absolutely no prior connection with the person I'm playing. For you having models rotated out isn't a big deal, your friends don't care if you're using Lorenzo Lupo in a City of Sigmar army or any other kit from 20 years ago for that matter. For me having a unit get moved to legends could mean it literally never sees the table again. The rules may be abstract concepts for you that hold next to no meaning, but for me they're the only thing that holds the game together. edit: also, you're not wrong saying it's tough to believe anyone could be interested in the game when you depend on the rules. Like I said in my post, it's an extremely tough sell trying to get people interested in the game over here because the value really just isn't there for most people. I really love the hobby and game aspects so I can stick with it, but the vast majority of people I know wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
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I think geographical location is really important to remember when having discussions like this. Price and population density can massively impact the perception of the hobby and those vary wildly depending on where you are in the world. I've been in the hobby for nearly 25 years now and I struggle to understand how it's possible anybody could buy these models from a pure hobby perspective with no care for the rules whatsoever. In my part of the world they're just too expensive to consider for me if I'm not going to get the full enjoyment of modelling, painting, and gaming. If I lived in the UK with their prices then maybe I could imagine a world where I didn't care that my models were suddenly unusable, but as is it's just mind blowing to hear. Even the concept of playing purely with friends in a basement is a little bizarre to me. I first got into the game with a friend, but I've never been able to convince any other friends to get into the game and stick with it. Models are too expensive and there's too much time commitment. After high school my friend couldn't afford the game anymore and I was left with playing at a LGS exclusively. That hasn't changed in the last 18 or so years. Nobody I know has even the slightest interest in dropping thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours. Again maybe in a part of the world where the game has more general popularity and is more affordable I could see basement gaming being more prevalent, but here it just seems impossible. Alternate gaming systems are also almost laughable for me. I've seen a few come and go, and played a number of them myself, but the only one that's sticks is Warhammer plain and simple. There just aren't enough people where I live for there to be any type of regular gaming on a variety of systems. Just for an example, the population density of the UK is about 280 people per square kilometer. The density in my province is about 6.7. I live in one of the biggest cities in my country with a little over a million people. The next closest city around that size is a little over 3 hours away by car. The next is about 12 hours away. I guess to bring this on topic, people experience the hobby if vastly different ways around the world. If you bought some models with some pocket change and got dozens of games in with your mates then yeah you'll probably feel like you got your money's worth and won't mind too much when they get rotated out. If you had to save for a month to buy a single infantry kit and you can only play at a gaming store that's a 40 minute drive away once a month then your perception of value will be wildly different.
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I'd be surprised if they were removed completely. They did get a model for the current book as well as a terrain piece and endless spells in the previous one. I don't think GW would be likely to give them new kits if they were planning to delete them a little while later. I think they're just in a similar position to Skaven, large existing range with some newish stuff but a lot of painfully ancient things as well and deeply in need of a proper refresh. Big batches like that don't happen often and the more GW drags their feet the more people seem to get excited when there finally is an update (and the more excited they are the more likely they are to buy models...) so it's anyone's guess when we'll see it.
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He could always get an elf friend to describe the battle to him. Or possibly get him a box?
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AoS 3 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion
Grimrock replied to Neil Arthur Hotep's topic in Maggotkin of Nurgle
Points seem pretty nice to me. Don't think we'll be launched to the top of the meta or anything but it gives some breathing room to daemon armies. Glottkin in particular seem great, I figured they were overcosted by 100-150 but I don't think I ever actually expected gw to drop their price that much. The way the game has evolved might mean they still need to come down another 100, but they could be interesting to play around with. Only thing left I kind of want to see now is a drop on blightkings by 20 or so. -
I'm sorry to hear that a number of factions are having issues, but the changes for the factions I'm playing are pretty spicy. Maggotkin got some significant drops on units that really needed it, primarily the daemon side. Pretty much my whole befouling host list went down in points and I've got room for a whole extra unit now. The Glottkin going down another 50 points is surprising as well, when I first saw them I figured they were about 100-150 points too expensive, but I never really thought that GW would actually drop their points that much. I'll definitely need to give them another run. Hedonite changes are minor but well targeted. Most of the stuff that's pretty good got a slight nerf and a number of unexciting units got decent price reductions. The changes will drop a reinforcement off my list which kind of hurts but doesn't seem too bad. Slaves changes are kind of wild. They seem to be pushing pretty hard to get people running despoilers by slashing monster costs pretty dramatically and giving us 70 point battleline units again. Not sure if it'll do the trick, daemon princes are pretty meh even with a 20 point drop, but 160 for a slaughterbrute or vortext beast and 240 for the manticores is definitely interesting when they all get +2 wounds. Big point drops on the endless spells combined with a couple little drops on heroes can effectively make the endless spell specific grand strategy pretty close to free which is interesting. The only thing I don't really like is the increase in points for chaos marauders combined with drops to a number of the cultist units. The marauders were already too expensive, and now they're also 20 points more expensive than units that are just strictly better than them. Really seems like GW is trying to soft delete them from the game.
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Makes me kind of nervous actually. They don't usually share these big centerpiece models across factions so I'm more than a little worried we'll be seeing the chaos manticore sailing off to legends in the next book. Maybe they take the opportunity to give slaves a new big centerpiece mount kit like a chaos dragon. Beautiful model though, if I'm wrong and they resculpt the chaos one I'm sure it'll look amazing.
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AoS 3 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion
Grimrock replied to Neil Arthur Hotep's topic in Maggotkin of Nurgle
Yeah better but man he still looks like hot garbage for that point value. Damage output is only slightly better than an 80 point foot hero and that's if he doesn't take the bell. Prayer is kinda awful and we don't even have a lore for him to take an extra one. I guess GW is still making him pay for being such a key piece for so many years. It's a shame because that model is absolutely gorgeous. -
Apparently I'm in the minority here, but I kinda hate skinny ogres like this one or cursed city. The model looks great, don't get me wrong, but why call it an ogre? The gut is and has been a defining trait for Warhammer ogres back to their first battletome (which was my first Warhammer Fantasy army) and has been intrinsic to their lore. An ogre with no gut is both figuratively and literally wrong and should be saved for gorgers. It's not like guts are all fat and if only an ogre ate better and lived in a proper society it would go away, it's a critical part of their biology. It's not fat, it's a huge slab of muscle that helps with their prodigious digestive capabilities. It isn't like living in a city for one generation just suddenly changes a creatures whole biological makeup. I get the desire to give them a distinct appearance for the human armies but getting rid of the gut is absolutely the wrong way to do it.