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4 hours ago, Inferno said:

 

And I feel so strongly about this that I apperently posted it 4 times. . 

Edited by Kramer
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32 minutes ago, Acrozatarim said:

Yeah, could we be seeing a return of something like the old Vampire Counts? Splitting it into vampires and 'meaty' undead in one army, skeletal undead in the Ossifex, ghostly undead in the Nighthaunt?

That wouldn't surprise me. Since before AoS there's been a ceding of the design/aesthetic space for fleshy/rotting undead to Nurgle (which also saw an increase in tentacles and fungus to distinguish them from undead), and an increased focus on bones and ghosts, and ghouls to a lesser degree. 

New Deadwalkers or combined Soulblight and Deadwalkers or whatever is GW's chance to reorient the fleshy undead space away from the cues that have been fleshed out (haha) recently with Nurgle - growth, disease, pustules, bloat, feverish life that should be alive, plants, tattered armour and chainmail - in favour of... well, it's not clear but actual ruin and maybe the construct element, i.e. here are zombies that have to have stuff strapped to them so they can walk straight and fight. Bits of wood combined into stuff like the Necrofex Colossus or the Corpse Cart. A slightly more grounded, mundane, gothic peasant feel than what you get with Nurgle.

Edited by sandlemad

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1 hour ago, Kramer said:

Between the bottle and the crossbar I’m starting to think devoted of sigmar. 

That was my thought was well.

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1 hour ago, Kramer said:

Between the bottle and the crossbar I’m starting to think devoted of sigmar. 

AoS V3 box: Human (Devoted of Sigmar / Freeguild new faction) Versus Orcs !

... A guy can dream 😜

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42 minutes ago, RedMax said:

AoS V3 box: Human (Devoted of Sigmar / Freeguild new faction) Versus Orcs !

... A guy can dream 😜

I would be happy if it was Stormcast vs Orruks IF and only IF the Stormcast includes some baseline humans devoted of Sigmar as auxiliaries 

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56 minutes ago, RedMax said:

AoS V3 box: Human (Devoted of Sigmar / Freeguild new faction) Versus Orcs !

... A guy can dream 😜

This is THE dream!! A throwback to a classic rivalry!!

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3 hours ago, Still-young said:

It looks similar but different to me. Slightly different proportions and painting. 

I think there's no way it isn't at least the same model/unit.

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1 hour ago, RedMax said:

AoS V3 box: Human (Devoted of Sigmar / Freeguild new faction) Versus Orcs !

Gut feeling, I do expect to see the AoS 3 box to have Cities of Sigmar as the protagonist faction. 

I don't think GW are deaf to how frequently it gets requested. Small teases about Sigvald or Sons of Behemat have paid off, and there's been a hell of a lot more teasing for sigmarite cogforts, which sound like a great centerpiece of an AoSified freeguild expansion.  Plus, Free City rules mean they could still include a token stormcast presence within the starter set, updating that battletome alongside a meatier cities release.

An Orruk opponent would be a nice thing for Destruction players - it's their turn after all - but I kinda doubt that. The two starter sets have embodied coherent chapters in the narrative of the setting (the realmgate wars and the soul wars) and destruction isn't well suited to being a narrative focal point. A lot of the charm is how reactive they are. I hope destruction gets love next year, I don't think it'll be in a starter.

So I guess what happens in Broken Realms will decide the matchup. It could end up with two order factions going at it, who knows.

I could see Beasts of Chaos or Skaven be in the starter. They're large, fan favourite ranges with some dated kits. And they both offer great opportunities for upping the creative ante (warped beasts or ramshackle steampunk contraptions).

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3 hours ago, sandlemad said:

That wouldn't surprise me. Since before AoS there's been a ceding of the design/aesthetic space for fleshy/rotting undead to Nurgle (which also saw an increase in tentacles and fungus to distinguish them from undead), and an increased focus on bones and ghosts, and ghouls to a lesser degree. 

New Deadwalkers or combined Soulblight and Deadwalkers or whatever is GW's chance to reorient the fleshy undead space away from the cues that have been fleshed out (haha) recently with Nurgle - growth, disease, pustules, bloat, feverish life that should be alive, plants, tattered armour and chainmail - in favour of... well, it's not clear but actual ruin and maybe the construct element, i.e. here are zombies that have to have stuff strapped to them so they can walk straight and fight. Bits of wood combined into stuff like the Necrofex Colossus or the Corpse Cart. A slightly more grounded, mundane, gothic peasant feel than what you get with Nurgle.

I could see LoN getting the Orruck warclans treatment with two distinct factions in soulblight as almost pure vampires and monsters on one side as the elite faction (ironjaws equivalent) and a necromantic undead horde faction focused on zombies, flesh golems scaling from elites up to a necrofex and with necromancer heroes (the bonessplitters equivalent). Then a third faction in grand host of nagash as the big waaaagh stand in that combines both with a theme around synergizing the two (maybe a retooling of current LoN rules for graveyards and resurrections etc.). It'd also be an opportunity to make nagash relevant again, leave him with a more self contained scroll like archaon with the keywords to join and benefit from every death army. An easy fix for example would be to replace his healing with an aura of mortal wounds so he'll be useful regardless of whether he's in flesh eaters or OBR. 

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On cogforts, I am not sure we will see them in game. The depictions of them as massive mobile fortresses mean they would be simply too large to be playable. Still, I suppose smaller mobile mechanical emplacements or bunkers might work?

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4 minutes ago, Greyshadow said:

On cogforts, I am not sure we will see them in game. The depictions of them as massive mobile fortresses mean they would be simply too large to be playable. Still, I suppose smaller mobile mechanical emplacements or bunkers might work?

Yeah, that's along the lines of what I was thinking. A scale difference like that between skyports and ironclads. 

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2 hours ago, RedMax said:

AoS V3 box: Human (Devoted of Sigmar / Freeguild new faction) Versus Orcs !

... A guy can dream 😜

I would love to see a mostly human devoted of sigmar faction, possibly bringing in a few stormcasts at the top of the hierarchy, maybe this chamber had to be opened very early so they use Sigmar's most fervent followers as the core of their forces.

10 minutes ago, Klamm said:

Gut feeling, I do expect to see the AoS 3 box to have Cities of Sigmar as the protagonist faction. 

I don't think GW are deaf to how frequently it gets requested. Small teases about Sigvald or Sons of Behemat have paid off, and there's been a hell of a lot more teasing for sigmarite cogforts, which sound like a great centerpiece of an AoSified freeguild expansion.  Plus, Free City rules mean they could still include a token stormcast presence within the starter set, updating that battletome alongside a meatier cities release.

An Orruk opponent would be a nice thing for Destruction players - it's their turn after all - but I kinda doubt that. The two starter sets have embodied coherent chapters in the narrative of the setting (the realmgate wars and the soul wars) and destruction isn't well suited to being a narrative focal point. A lot of the charm is how reactive they are. I hope destruction gets love next year, I don't think it'll be in a starter.

So I guess what happens in Broken Realms will decide the matchup. It could end up with two order factions going at it, who knows.

I could see Beasts of Chaos or Skaven be in the starter. They're large, fan favourite ranges with some dated kits. And they both offer great opportunities for upping the creative ante (warped beasts or ramshackle steampunk contraptions).

Destruction definitely can take an active role, they just haven't been written that way so far. I think they need a more cunning faction to contrast all the brutal/crazy ones. I'm sort of expecting a grots vs lumineth starter set myself. Its another classic set (4th ed was Grom vs eltharion) and eltharion returned plus we are waiting on the rest of lumineth (people say even Teclis' forces feel incomplete). Gitmob was also squatted particularly gruesomely even getting removed from the app despite tomb kings and brets still existing there, and shortly after we got a gitmob warband for underworlds. Plotwise it would be interesting to see Destruction go wild as Gorkamorka splits into Gork and Mork after something happens in broken realms (siege of excelsis?) then we could get an avatar of Mork in addition to Gordrakk being the avatar of Gork.

I won't hold my breath about destruction driving the plot forward though, GW seems quite content to just let them exist.

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I seem to remember seeing or hearing something from Phil Kelly when asked that it made sense for destruction to be the main foe in AOS 3.

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I wonder if we will see Gordrakk and Skargrott being Gorkamorka's new vessels/champions of sorts akin to how Grimgor and Skarsnik were in the end times.  Gordrakk and Skargrott still somewhat represent the opposing themes and qualities of Orruk and Grot I guess too. I'm sure they could work together to wreck havoc in the mortal realms.

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10 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

I won't hold my breath about destruction driving the plot forward though, GW seems quite content to just let them exist.

I mean, they seemed content to just let death exist until AoS 2.0, or Slaanesh to just exist until recently. That doesn’t really mean much. 

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3 hours ago, Still-young said:

I mean, they seemed content to just let death exist until AoS 2.0, or Slaanesh to just exist until recently. That doesn’t really mean much. 

Death makes a good foil to chaos because Nagash's objective is very different, but it's still a specific goal you can contrast against Order factions.

Of the destruction armies, only Gloomspite Gitz seem to have a specific objective (the everdank). Orruks, Ogors and Gargants are fairly reactive. Who cares about building civilisation or ruling the realms? They just wanna grill (especially ogors). 

It's how Destruction contrast Chaos in the same way Order contrasts Death. They share values in regards to civilisation vs lawlessness but diverge in terms of just wanting to flourish vs seeking dominion.

Order wants civilisation so they can flourish, Death wants civilisation under Nagash's dominion, Chaos wants the dominion of their gods but without the order, and Destruction just wants to flourish in the disorder.

It just means they are unsuited to being driving antagonists of the main story. Out of curiosity, would people prefer GW change orruks to have clear  goals to take over the realms? 

I really hope we see them used more as foils. The orruks benefit from keeping everyone fighting, so I'd like to see Gordrakk take steps to undermine victories of the other GA's. The ogors, especially BCR, are the most relatable destruction faction coz they're survival orientated, so I'd like to see arcs where they make strategic or opportunistic decisions to back various GAs.

It's okay that destruction aren't suited to being the main antagonists, like how Superhans wouldn't work as the main character of Peep Show. Hopefully that means we get Grotbag Scuttlers and updates to Orruks/Ogors while tying them in to the ongoing story in a fun way.

 

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38 minutes ago, Klamm said:

Of the destruction armies, only Gloomspite Gitz seem to have a specific objective (the everdank). Orruks, Ogors and Gargants are fairly reactive. Who cares about building civilisation or ruling the realms? They just wanna grill (especially ogors). 

It's all good and valid point, but they don't necessarily need the one huge overarching goal. Temporary goal of a single character is good enough to fuel the plot. Gordrakk wants to lay siege to Azyr. He doesn't even need to succeed in this - his path towards this goal can ruin multiple cities and drastically change the balance of power. Azyr being under attack completely shifts the objectives of Sigmar and the Stormcast, and, by extension, with Stormcast temporarily occupied, goals of both Nagash and Archaon who can now work without their main hindrance. Hell, maybe even lend support to Gordrakk in some way because as far as whacking Sigmar with an axe goes, their goals mostly align.

And the good thing about Desctruction is that precisely because it lacks one huge plot to follow, it can be given meaningful (both to themselves and others) victories and defeats without changing the setting too much. 

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17 hours ago, RedMax said:

AoS V3 box: Human (Devoted of Sigmar / Freeguild new faction) Versus Orcs !

... A guy can dream 😜

I think Cities of Sigmar [humans] vs Destruction [Orcs] would be excellent and most interesting, Stormcast could eb there as an elite choice and they could explore the more out-there elements of a Cities force with new humans/Devoted. On the opposition sid they could do new orcs with a smattering of others like trolls/gobbos/fimir. I'm not into either faction but I think it would be a cool take on an old rivalry and would add to the setting a lot..

Destruction I think is being set up as the major antagonist for the next chapter of AoS -especially with the first Broken Realms story setting up a new Waaagh. Its a good system where they cycle through Chaos/Death/Destruction with each edition.

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Just now, silverstu said:

Destruction I think is being set up as the major antagonist for the next chapter of AoS -especially with the first Broken Realms story setting up a new Waaagh.

Both this and coming siege of Excelsis, Gordrak's battering ram and so on. I think we'll be seeing more Destruction soon.

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53 minutes ago, dekay said:

Gordrakk wants to lay siege to Azyr. He doesn't even need to succeed in this - his path towards this goal can ruin multiple cities and drastically change the balance of power.

But if he does succeed, we're looking at a Necroquake-level event. The strategic advantage of having Azyr as a safe haven to strategize, raise armies, coordinate attacks, and maintain supply lines is one of the reasons Sigmar and the other order armies have enjoyed so much relative success in their war against the forces of Chaos.

Destruction is an amazing monkey-wrench Grand Alliance (special consideration should be given to the Skaven here, who will always be the ultimate monkey-wrench of AoS). They can control the narrative by forcing everyone to change their carefully laid plans in order to deal with the constant, relentless threat of wanton . . . well . . . destruction.

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Maybe this comes from nowhere, but with the siege of Exelcis I can see the Beasts of Chaos, more specifically the Thunderscorn, taking a big part in it. After all, before Sigmar, Azyr was home of the Dragon Ogors, and maybe if Broken Realms leads to that big siege, it could be a good time for a new Dragon Ogor Shaggoth model for the thunder lizards. I don't think the Thunderscorn would be passive to a potential break in the gates of Azyr.

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1 hour ago, silverstu said:

Stormcast could eb there as an elite choice

Yes absolutely. If you remember the "Warriors of The Great Cities - Hammerhal" box that was sold some years ago, this is perfect example about what I'd like to see and yes including Stormcast so not breaking with having SCE in starter habit. Also with a couple of new unit for Ironjaws(and a new book?) could be really a cool and charismatic box.

Remembering what GW did with Nighthaunt with V2, so refresh of an army (that was just some month ago getting a soup battletome with LoN) with many new cool mini, if they apply same recipe for Freeguild/devoted (out of Cos) and Ironjaws (out of Orruk warclan) it could be awesome.

This is definitively wish-listing from me but I'm pretty sure it would have success!

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9 hours ago, Marius au said:

I seem to remember seeing or hearing something from Phil Kelly when asked that it made sense for destruction to be the main foe in AOS 3.

And the skaven the main protagonist.

I’m in😝

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