dekay

It's much newer than that but it only shows how ugly it was even at release.

Just to make sure - do we have a confirmation that the different configurations of the big pig counts as 1 release in this rumour? Even if they do, it still sounds like a good sized release, but maybe let's take it into account to avoid future disappointment.

Mostly agreed. That's why despite completely abandoning 40k rules, I still buy, paint and play 40k minis. Just not with GW's rules. AoS is still playable, but I certainly wouldn't say no to an offer of playing something else with my AoS models.

Let me rephrase: Brand loyalty gets *you* nothing. Of course it's good for the company, that's the point. You're better off buying things that suit you, and defending GW against their competition certainly doesn't help anyone but GW. The market needs competition, unless we're happy with a single monopoly gouging prices, not caring to proofread their rulebooks and publishing supplements that immediately get overwritten by an errata. Yes, GW makes nice minis. And it's also better for everyone if we don't treat it as a sole source of the hobby and rid ourselves of the notion of 'official' models and rules.

Yeah, it would be clearly unethical to begin with publishing minis and materials for Dungeons and Dragons and then, after getting some market recognition, turn it into your own fantasy game of wait that's early GW. Ideas can be improved upon, and original isn't always the best. OPR is a fun game, with a growing model line of its own in addition to being open to any other manufacturers. Brand loyalty gets you nothing, usually.

Bad news is, no, you need to rebase them to 60mm. Good news is, Demigryphs look perfectly well on 60mm bases. I've seen them mounted on old rectangular cavalry bases once (for use in Kings of War) i think, and if they fit those, 60mm should pose zero problem. Also, guys, I've been thinking: Freeguild Command unit as a standalone element. Let's ignore their buff potential for a moment and look at them in isolation: They are a small, pretty low profile unit that's easy to hide (just 6 small models). They have 18 wounds and automatically regenerate d3 a turn as long as the surgeon is alive. So pretty solid for holding an objective somewhere close to your friendly territory. And here comes their ability to semi-reliably ****** up enemy commands. With unlimited range. Imagine doing this to heroes for whom powerful commands are like half a reason to take them, like Katakros. I feel like taking those guys, even in a Duardin or Aelf based army, might be worth it just for that effect, they're not too expensive. Plus, if you take any steelhelms as a screen, or fusiliers for extra firepower, command team will provide them some useful buffs as well.

All good points, but responding to this part: One thing I noticed when experimenting with an Aelf based list was just how much stuff I can fit in. A lot of those units are cheap, and the separate 'segments' of the force still remain pretty affordable. Dreadlord, 5 knights, 3 chariots. Sorceress, 10 dreadspears, 20 black guard. Fleetmaster, 30 corsairs. All of these work real well on their own (all, right, the corsairs reach true levels of cruelty when you add in another sorceress + dreadspears to the mix), and they all fit into a single army. With some points to spare for things that require zero support to work well, like dark riders or a hydra. And as you mentioned, the Aelven part of the army is not really reliant on stacking buffs. You can spread those segments all over the battlefield without losing much of their utulity.

Yes to all. Chariot in the start collecting is a dual build, so are DoK warlocks. Go for it.

Kind of, but when the best way to include Fulminators in your army was to take them in the Living city, and the best way to play the Living city was to include Fulminators it was fun neither for the Stormcast or the Cities players. In the early days of the book, when an old Kharadron book was still in the circulation I got 'just include a 40 strong arkanaut blob' advice any time I tried to put together a *Cities* army. And no Cities unit could compare to their damage output in shooting back then. I like the current concept of getting a bonus for taking thematic allies in the select cities. Having a faction that has de facto hundreds of warscrolls to choose from and more often than not, the best ones were from a completely different book was, pretty often, decidedly not fun.

As soon as Grungni calls, most will follow, simple as that. And the Grombrindal storyline might be leading up to that. They will remain on good terms with humans, but yearning for thieir old holds is a big parts of their identity, so they don't really need extra reasons to leave the cities when the time is right.

Dark Riders are in an interesting place: They can't be reasonably removed, unless DoK lose warlocks in the process and if the remaining dark elves are to be removed from the Cities at some point, they will need a place to go. And they, lorewise, work for Malerion anyway. They look decidedly modern, so quality is not a problem, but if they were moved to Malerion's faction they sort of dictate the faction's aestethic (or not, looking at Hexwraiths who don't really gel with Nighthaunt all that well).

I don't see any mentions of duardin artillery here?

He seems ok - Gives Serpentis units (which are all quite good) a charge re-roll, breath attack is not bad, and if he charges together with the knights and chariots, it's a battle tactic won. Unlocking drakespawn as a battleline is likely worth something too, they seem quite solid for their points. With the duellist trait he might be a bit of a meme build, but the ring turning him invisible vastly increases the chances of him making it into combat. It's better! Spray needed to be close to the target, this one can be done while hidden behind the attacking unit. Shame it doesn't work on shooting, though, darkshards don't have much in a way of buffs.

Mentioned on page 29, last paragraph. No details apart from the fact that they're there. Nice to get a mention, though.

The more I think of it, more sense it makes tbh. I might have judged them too harshly based on the stats alone - despite the disappointing statline, dreadspears do look like an auto include in any army that has a Sorceress in it. And they can't be simultaneously terrible and an auto include, so they must be good ; ) No real niche for bleakswords, though. They compete with dreadspears, corsairs and steelhelms at the same time and I don't think they come out favourably in those comparisons. Jury's still out on darkshards, though - unlike the two others it's reasonable to expect them to kill something and there's avery limited pool of buffs that can help them with it. And dark riders can do chaff clearing as well.

Thank goodness for the conditional battlelines then. Should help minimize the tax.

Fun fact, a dreadlord, drakespawn knights and a chariot unit, a (expensive) way to kill basically anything in the game with a fast and reliable charge happens to be 3 units as well.

Most people seem to be talking about the Freeguilds, especially all the new units, but there's a real possibility that we'll see some Aelf based lists doing pretty well: Let's get the bad out of the way - all three basic infantry units are pretty terrible. Unless there's some crazy combo I can't see yet, their only use might be to serve as batteries for the Sorceresses. Sorceresses, though. Tenebrael Blades spell is insane. Especially if we combine it with either potential +4 to cast in Settler's Gain, or 3d6 casting in Hallowheart. Give another Sorceress Hoarfrost instead, cast both on basically anything and it turns into a blender. Like, say, this extremely cheap and very buffable corsair horde. (should corsair be the order's clanrats, lorewise? Not really. But we work with what we've been given.) Dark Riders will be annoying as hell. They are fast, relatively durable, require zero buffs or support, are impossible to pin down and just passively shut down commands. And their shooting got buffed enough so they're a credible threat to enemy chaff. Executioners' damage output has doubled. Black Guard stole the Phoenix Guard's ward and are now the toughest infantry in the book. Hydra basically needs to be killed in one go or it will heal. Dreadlord is not all that great on his own, but provides a free charge re-roll both for himself and the knights (and there's a potential for a stabby aura build with the duellist warlord trait) The knights are notably cheaper than cavaliers, come with +1 to charge, have pretty solid hitting power and with a coordinated charge, they insanely buff the hitting power of the chariots. The chariots come in units again, and can do like 18 mortal wounds on charge before they even start attacking. Still not sure what to think about Kharybdiss, Scourgerunner and the Dragon Sorceress. But they're not necessarily bad. I'm not saying that pure aelf army is viable, but I am saying that once you put into your list all the Aelven things worth using, you have used up a lot of your points allowance.

Use allies and play cities that have extra rules for using those allies. Yes, CoS are now limited as to how many allied units they can use at the same time, but all those units are still available. It's more of a forced change to army composition than actually losing something.

I haven't thoroughly read the full list of buffs available for Cavaliers, but at the first glance, drakespawn knights might be even slightly better? They have worse hitting power on the charge but in subsequent turns it almost evens out, they have inbuilt +1 to charge range and a free reroll when dreadlord is around, they're significantly cheaper and their lances have range 2, plus access to strike first from the Aelf order. Plus, they buff drakespawn chariots that are solid on their own. No matter what synergies there are for the cavaliers, drakespawn seem like a valid alternative. Basic darkling infantry seems like a mistake, though. No idea if they have any uses.

If we're reanimating the thread anyway.... I finished my Cities army recently. 5140 points at current values. Of course I already have ideas for new additions, but it's becoming impossible to store as it is, so I'll probably leave it be

Correction: Beasts of chaos were a wild version of chaos in the old world. When AoS started, they were just a line of funky goat-men and their pet monsters, and anything could've been done with them. And I agree that not moving them to destruction has been a missed opportunity. Their origin story of being created but abandoned by chaos is good and could have stayed, that's a solid origin story, just make them leave chaos in response and decide to ruin everything for everyone.

But it's a difference between 'complete' and 'incomplete' still. Time period when you only needed to carry one book to the games is over after two months. The book is still new and you must download extra rules to supplement it. Especially that here we're talking about characters that literally showed up in the narrative right before the battletome came out. So the battletome does seem like a reasonable place to introduce them. Honestly, I see it as a solid argument for all those claiming that printed rules should be the thing of the past. After lumineth thing people's trust about rulebooks' expiration date has been damaged already, and yet, most still bought the book and they will buy the next book despite knowing they might need extra rules right after it. And, I think, they'd buy the book even if it was lore, illustrations and photos only. Infinity does that, works just fine.

Nice as they are, it is likely the shortest time period that battletome/codex has been up to date. Slaanesh literally just got the update and just a few months later there are already models not in the book. Cool.

It would be nice to see the list updated! While you're at it, you could also look at DoK options Har Kuron gave us. We now have a city that has (at the very least) a perfect wardancer stand-in without resorting to allies.