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Lucky Snake Eyes

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144 Celestant-Prime

About Lucky Snake Eyes

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    Dracothian Guard

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  1. The points already been made but if you had any modifiers positive or negative, then reroll 1 rules wouldn't take effect if modifiers where applied before rerolls. Also there are technically 3 types of rerolls based on wording. "this model rerolls failed hit rolls" means you reroll all failed hit rolls iirespective of modifiers, "this model CAN reroll failed hit rolls" implies that you can choose to not reroll a dice if say a +1 mod would make it hit. and the funniest of all "this model can reroll rolls" for example the warpseer verminlord specifically says "this model may reroll save rolls" with no specification of fails, so technically it can reroll succesful rolls in anticipation that a modifier would cause it to fail.
  2. I mean, summoning is one of those allegiance abilities, where slaanesh gets locus, summoning and exploding 6s others get a different set of abilities. Whether that be graveyards, 6's to ignore wounds and reviving units or the runes and lodges of fyreslayers or the myriad of tools sylvaneth can gain from their allegiances and groves. Summoning is one of the allegiance abilities, considering it separate from the allegiances list of abilities is treating it like isn't taking up the place of what could have been a different ability.
  3. Idk what units your allying in with a keeper at 360pts but outside the keeper can only doubletap hedonite units. Since you typically won't have the points to ally things with a keeper then your only double tapping the keeper. And equating the greater daemons in purely combat is a bit of a false equivalency since the lord of change is mainy a caster and utility unit and the GUO is a tank that can survive a keepers oppressive combat. As for the bloodthirster, well yeah fair odds it dies if the keeper gets first swing, but the opposite can happen as well, also the bloodthirster is cheaper in points and can use tyrants of blood to overcome a multikeeper vs multithirster fight. And on a somewhat related note regarding variance in summoning based on opponent, tzeentch can also be widely varying. I was at a tournament over the weekend and the tzeench player summoned some pinks while fighting khorne but was swimming in summoning against LoN and sylvaneth.
  4. The new 40k stuff was teased a while ago in a joke article about primaris lieutenants where they had all the new stuff blurry in the background. So technically yeah they've been teasing the 40k stuff first, we'll probably get the new tome previews once the marine stuff has run it's course.
  5. Infinity has a neat variation of IGOUGO where in units that have line of sight on the active unit can make reactions such as shooting with a reduced number of dice, dodge out of the way, hack the active unit etc. I find it makes for a nice flow of the game.
  6. Locus can fail and can only target a single unit, so tag team the heroes with 2 units at once. Or just shoot them or blast them with mortal wounds from spells and abilities, or zone out the heroes so there's no room to place large units or big bases. The KoS is on a pretty big base and at the earliest it'll come down in their second turn, so with some clever deepstrikes, flying units or raw speed you can block the drop without needing to kill the hero. It has to fit in a 12" bubble 9" away from your stuff, not a lot of room to work with when dropping a big daemonette squad either. Oh and not to mention you're being hypocritical by saying your a noob for getting into melee with fyreslayers but say HoS are OP when you try to do the same with them. Both are powerful and a skilled player can abuse them, but both have surprisingly similar counterplay: snipe the heroes or zone them out. You can use spells and abilities to move the heroes into positions you want such as the warscroll spell for the brayshaman. And for the record, even if it is only a once per game ability, fyreslayers can get a decent slingshot going to fling that HGB bomb up the table, such as onto a center objective in the early game or to block off an avenue of movement depending on the terrain setup. Now try playing a list with no shooting while the fyreslayers have their spell negation relic to protect the heroes that are properly bubblewrapped by the HGB. All you can hope to do is try for the other objectives on the table and contend with the rest of there army. Sometimes it can work, sometimes your army is also slow (such as skeleton heavy LoN builds) and they can catch your slow big blobs out with there own.
  7. Considering the number of armies present in the game and the fact that each has to be at least somewhat unique, It becomes pretty hard to make lists that can compete against every other list you might see in a span of 5 games whether that be in a GT or at a lfgs. Yeah a melee stormcast list will probably lose if it just throws itself at most slaanesh lists but shootcast will beat slaanesh black and blue. And there are armies that won't do well against that melee stormcast list but can stomp shootcast. You can try to build a swiss army knife list but in the end the performance of lists like that come down to how skilled the player is. If you wanted a game where any list has a fair chance against any other list, this game just ain't it. You'd have to either overhaul the core rules or cut down on the number of armies to cut down on the need for unique mechanics. If you do want a game that promotes balanced list building and play I'd recommend Infinity, pretty fun and great for when I want a smaller game than AoS.
  8. You can pull some juicy stuff by throwing up a line of sacrificial chaff and keeping the heavy hitters 4" back so they can't be reached, then on your turn charge into the keeper that got caught up in the chaff, sure there's thermal rider cloak but considering the base size on the keeper you just gotta space enough of your backline out to zone out the keeper from having anywhere to land that isn't in the chaff. Besides doesn't matter how many daemons i summon when fyreslayers don't take any wounds lol.
  9. A couple of points to make here: You don't see the KoS allied because it's spells, exploding 6's and other buffs that let them spiral out of control come from the allegiance, and it's command ability only works on units with the hedonites keyword so aside from itself you'd have no other targets. Also depending on deployment, seekers and hellstriders can easily land enough turn 1 charges for the d6 depravity roll. And yup our hit and wound rolls are for the most part mediocre, it's somewhat compensated by an abundance of low rend, universal reroll 1's spell and exploding 6's but on their own our units don't have the teeth their made out to be. My fear as a slaanesh player isn't rend or even most shooting, it's multidamage attacks and opponents with easy access to save rerolls to mitigate my low rend. Had a game against ogors, I won because well, good book vs no book but his ironguts walked through most of what engaged them due to a few unlucky locus rolls and high damage weapons being swung at garbage saves. Or in another game when chameleon skinks redeployed onto an objective i was holding with the remnants of a daemonette squad and watched them get shot off by skinks within stabbing distance. So there absolutely is counterplay as far as objectives are concerned. A good push onto an objective and placing your units well enough to avoid locus' can crush a slaanesh lline.
  10. It's more or less a quality + quantity issue from my understanding. For example LoN can keep recycling any unit with summoning, most summonable units have sub par stat lines that are adjusted by the fact their models can come back. Plus complete unit res can only happen from graveyards near the general. Now I can't speak for summoning restrictions on khorne or seraphon, all i know is seraphon never cast spells to max points and khorne loses theirs once they spend them, but I've seen players of both armies just slap down summoned stuff anywhere on the table and that's huge despite their limited generation (you can only spam so many wizards as seraphon and MSU's aren't exactly in meta for khorne to abuse) Slaanesh units, much like the rest of chaos who share the theme of summoning daemons and/or overgrown farm animals, have a summoning mechanic that's fluffy, in this case non lethal pain, and their units are decent enough to stand on their own (within the context of being backed by their allegiance) but are also summonable. Now unlike the other 3 god armies, slaanesh has no mortals aside from 1 unit and thus have basically their entire toolkit at their disposal for summoning. Now that's not normally an issue since the 3 other god armies have their own equivalents + mortals and competitive players will buy spare daemons anyways, BUT we run into the issue with how each army summons. Like I said, MSU's are in short supply so khorne is starving for tithe, on the flipside if it where an MSU heavy meta we might be having this discussion about khorne but I digress. Tzeentch is all about that magic, and aside from LoN and slaanesh, I can't think of other armies that spam wizards unintentionally or not. So it's only a few matchups there that they can really pop off. Nurgle is probably the most consistent and certain builds can get you a late game GUO but by turn 3 it better be a hell of a gamechanger with where you summon him. Slaanesh, much like khorne and nurgle, use an unavoidable game mechanic to generate points, but unlike the others, slaanesh doesn't care how many units are on the table or anything like that, just that non lethal wounds happen. This is where some of the griping lies. Another complaint is the power per cost of units, while I feel the KoS is sitting where it should be at 360pts, the summoning cost is only 30 so even a mediocre to abysmal turn, say 2 KoS die but you get off a couple wounds with spells or whatever and you get your d3 host depravity, boom that's a turn 2 KoS to try to bounce you back after a terrible first turn. You snowball when you succeed and have a mediocre but still existent safety net when you fail. Meanwhile the other khorne and tzeentch are less reliable in summoning a quantity of daemons or a few powerful daemons and nurgles predictable generation leaves them with needing to decide on whether to spend points now or save for the turn 3 GUO. Now the argument is still true that skill and luck will still turn a game around in your favor, that greater daemon the opponent just got because YOU played well can be offsetting mentally. You can also argue that it can be played around by zoning out heroes, but that's a potential 6 heroes to have zoned or killed by turn 2, not all armies have the tools for that level of hunting/swamping and a lot of the ones who can have to go all in on it. Yeah you'll yank the teeth out of a slaanesh army by killing the big heroes and zoning the little ones but your gonna be screwed when your alpha strike speed list goes into the next 4 rounds at a GT against skaven or some other popular list. I'd argue that from a gameplay perspective it's still a mechanic that can absolutely be played around and prepare for, but the psychological effect is clearly profound as this thread shows. Personally I'd welcome a change such as focusing more on the host specific depravity generators or making it easier to zone out the summoning, maybe only being able to summon from a wounded hero to add a bit of fluff, the daemons joining the party rather than popping up because the herald on the corner of the table who did nothing all game asked them to. or maybe restricting it to only the fane and epitomes? The daemons coming through the mirrors, yeah people would abuse epitomes but it helps with target priority, shoot the epitomes turn 1 and zone the fane. Sorry for the essay lol
  11. Sounds like a bunch of competitive players would jump ship lol
  12. Does make you wonder how lists that aren't built around summoning would perform in a competitive setting.
  13. So still not free, but certainly discounted. But in cases like this you can try to play around the existence of those models by sniping them out with magic, shooting or a hail mary of a charge before the summoning/revival happens. That prevents the addition/recycling of models and can throw off an opponent that was banking on using the mechanic.
  14. Is free really the right term to use when in some of these cases you're required to pay points for specific models to facilitate said summoning/revival? Skaven can only do it with a screaming bell on a 12, stormcast have to take the lord arcanum? (i'm bad with stormcast names they're all the same to me). It's a little different from the summoning in the form of an allegiance ability that cannot be avoided and is essentially "free" with the only limitation being how the game is played.
  15. And nearly every model compared to the avatar will look good, you two are comparing the lowest hanging fruit of either side of the argument. Why not compare it to other greater daemons which also have to be balanced around their factions summoning mechanic?
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