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30 Lord Celestant

About Graywater

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  1. It's still in the conceptual stages, but I'm going to trim off all of the boat and rock parts where the Cape connects to the base and instead have him rising out of a pile of body parts and blood. I'll keep the eidolon spear because it's cool, but switch out the other arm and possibly the head with ghoul king bits. The idea is that he is a water elemental corrupted by the delusions and now exclusively apparates in the blood of the bodies gathered by the flesh eater courts. Should look cool on my display board and with the chalice endless spell.
  2. This is their biggest downfall. I bought an eidolon of mathlann to convert to be my varghulf. Maybe hes a little big, but its gonna be sweet.
  3. I like where your head is at. I'm always curious to see what lists people come up with outside of the obvious directions like gristlegore. Theres usually more power hidden in a tome than what's sitting on the surface. As to your list, I like your assessment that bonuses to cast will be important for our spells to go off. Geminids concern me though. They're very strong but with the goal of flesh eaters being up in the enemy's face, I fear geminids could very easily be turned against you, and the minuses to hit really hurt us. Especially on our monsters, minimizing your only source of rend.
  4. Or perhaps they are priced with a more holistic mindset instead of every unit priced in a vacuum.
  5. GKoTG are absolutely brutal at 1000. There isnt much that will stand up to that, and the amount they summon in relation to the gamesize at 1000 points is unmanageable. Glad to hear it went well for him.
  6. Hard not to like an ethereal dragon. Have also had success with a gryph feather charm. Balefire lantern is going to be better for a unit that is going to babysit your hordes to let them benefit from the debuff, while ethereal lets your dragon be a big old distraction and go off on its own. So I guess its dependent on the rest of your army and overall gameplan.
  7. What I am hearing from this is that if you bring non-optimal units, you will likely struggle against optimized lists run by high caliber players. I 100% agree. But players competing at this level are going to take the most optimized stuff, and spend a lot of time finding the most effective list. This often means they find the most effective units and combination of units. This also means that there are going to be units that are not as efficient or effective for whatever reason. That is the nature of this game; some units are just not as good as others. In this case, the foot heroes are worse than their mounted counterparts. Are they necessarily bad? No. You can still do well with them in casual and even small events. But if you are looking to run a list that competes on the highest level of events like LVO, then you are going to take the best stuff available.
  8. I'll agree that ghouls are overcosted compared to skeletons and chainrasp. I'm not a fan of flayers. I dont think they're invalid though. They arent point and click like units that some armies have access to (looking at you grimghasts), but they will have their uses for sure. Itll just take some more nuanced play. Other armies can take out 100 wounds no problem, sure. But now so can we. When it comes to your point on the support characters, you were taking many of those models anyways, so whether you bought them for the summoning, to smash face, or for support,they can do those things at the same time. So I see no issue there. It's never been an issue considering our alpha potential. Sure, we don't have the lowest drop army, but we arent typically in the 10-12 range, so it's almost 50-50 whether we decide who goes first or not. But between our spell lore and courts boosting speed, and our summoning coming from the board edge, I think we actually have a safer alpha strike potential than most armies out there, regardless as to whether we go first or second.
  9. See, I actually look at it differently. Pur monster mash list is good still. But not the be all end all. The addition of the grand courts are just straight upgrades and I think help allow armies built around horrors, flayers, and or ghouls to be perfectly viable. I'm excited to run a few different lists, particularly around running my favorite unit, horrors.
  10. Yeah, he ran ghoul patrol here, but he also saw success earlier with different builds too. And I wouldn't say that he got lucky on opponents, because he faced a real mix of different armies to get to the top, including last year's winner. Between his results so far, and previous results, I feel it is safe to say that bill is a very skilled player getting the most out of a list he is quite familiar with.
  11. Grenade is a great analogy because that's exactly what I do. I try to get him on an objective partway up the board and say "deal with me". The second part to that is to explain everything that he does while you're deploying. I've had quite a few opponents who actively avoid the model or way overcommit because they're worried. His output potential is there, but often I get more value out of having him influence my opponent into bad trades or being out of position.
  12. Good catch on the artifacts. The smouldering helm is an artifact that does a mortal wound back to the unit attacking the character for every save roll of a 6+. So stacking legion of night and putting the wight king in cover means throwing back mortal wounds on a 4+ before any rend. I like to give him mystic shield for extra fun. It's a fun artifact that can be really effective if you know that you're going to fact big units of chaff. I've taken a unit of 40 ghouls down to half with just knocking back attacks before.
  13. Wight king with smouldering helm is the only build I use legion of night for. It's great fun using him, and can be surprisingly effective at taking out units with lots of attack, but no rend. In my opinion, the ambushing ability is a nice boon if needed, but you aren't missing out if you decide not to use it. You still get gravesites and you get that +1 to save for deathrattle units, which you are taking advantage of. Your list seems fun to use. I'm not sold on Manfred, but you have a solid core to your list, so taking one suboptimal character isnt going to cause you any real issues.
  14. Honestly the list is really going to struggle. The legions battletome focuses on either soulblight or summonable synergies, which are non-existent with flesh eaters. You would lack units for your vampire to effect, while also lacking the heroes to buff your ghouls. You're right in that they dont really play nicely with each other because the armies play around different mechanics. By taking general death, you lose out on all the different buffs you inherently get from belonging to a particular legion. You also lose out on the grand delusion from the flesh eater allegiance. You dont really get anything in return for giving these bonuses up. I like your theme, but is there a way to tweak it a bit to fall more in line with one of the two books? Like the vampire waking up to a zombified or skelified populace and sticking to one of the legions? Or have him wake up and unknowingly have degenerated into a ghoul king if you want to go flesh eaters route? The two factions just have a really hard time working together and would be much better off separate.
  15. Dont let people discourage you too much. People come in with different levels of play in their head, from super casual narrative, to the most competitive. It can be hard to gauge where someone else wants to be on this spectrum because we always look at it through the lens of whatever level player we are ourselves. So no, grave guard are not competitive, and certainly play a different role to skeletons. However, if you are looking for a fun game using a theme and models you like, you'd be fine. As to your recent list, this is the first cohort list I built exactly. It is significantly stronger, but be prepared to play a different game than the more elite feel your grave guard list had. My suggestion: play some games with different amounts of skeletons and grave guard. You'll get a feel for how they play and what kind of game you want. I know that I've personally moved away from running armies with 100 skeletons because I dont like the defensive grinder style army. Its strong, but I dont enjoy playing it. So you have to find out what you want from the game and go for it.
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