The Rumour Thread

[KingKull]

3 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Even if GW opened a warp portal, pulled every Fyreslayer model into it and they returned as revamped WHFB Slayer models, the issue would remain - everything looks the same, except some of the Heroes have staffs and some have axes. With the exception of their one centrepiece (the Magmadroth).

It's why the reaction to the Flamekeeper was so negative. As a model by itself? Great stuff. But none had a problem with the quality of the sculpt, it's that it was yet another nigh-identical foot Hero. 

GW could produce a new box of Fyreslayers which are universally agreed upon to be the best sculpts they've ever made, but if they're yet more naked infantry they'll still be at the bottom of the faction popularity polls. 

I feel that GW has cornered itself with too specific a visual concept with the core idea of fireslayers which makes every subsequent iteration extremely hard to feel significantly different while retaining a certain unifying element - like, say, chameleon skinks do to regular skinks, Cursed City little furry vampire dudes do to regular vampires, etc etc.

This is one of the reasons why I'm a strong proponent of "benchmark" toned-down basic mooks - it makes other things in a faction feel more special while enhancing the overarching visual identity.

As I'm typing this, I also can't help but wonder how hasn't AoS still explored one glaringly obvious (but imho insanely cool) "original and brave" concept - big dwarfs, a la Heroes of Might and Magic 5 video game.

In fact, I feel that something like flamelords (below) could be a nice way of spicing up fireslayers and something I'd pay serious money for.

 

[KriticalKhan]

The sad irony of Fyreslayer wishlisting I've noticed is that everyone complains about how same-y the units are and that it's just the same concept over and over again, and when you ask them what they want to see it always ends up being Magmadroth cavalry and more dwarf infantry with slightly different weapons.

Fyreslayers aren't bound by the same rules and conventions of Warhammer Fantasy dwarfs so they could go all-out with the Warhammer wackiness and high fantasy stuff AoS is known for. Instead of Magmadroths (but SMALLER) make their cavalry salamanders or fire ants.

Bring back the axe hewer or give them a trebuchet that throws explosive barrels of ale (with the joke being that the REALLY strong stuff gets kept for drinking--the weaker, less explosive batches are only good for war).

Fyreslayers that have so many runes embedded in them that they've turned into monstrous infantry golems that aren't even recognizable as living creatures.

Take a page out of the Chaos Dwarf's book and give them bound fire spirits (Ah, but I've just remembered they already did this but only made a single endless spell....)

If you want to add more infantry, it really has to stand out. Something like super-heavy armor shield bearers who hold the line for the berzerkers to do the killing or ones who eschew traditional weapons for rune power fists or brass knuckles embedded in their flesh (maybe they were shamed like old slayers and had to shave their beards if you really want them to look different). Unironically, I think a few infantry options without mohawk helmets would go a long way toward diversifying their visuals on the tabletop. Bonus points if the heads are compatible with old kits to give some variety there.

I don't think you have to change what Fyreslayers ARE, but you need to give them more that isn't the exact same thing. When you look at the bigger Fantasy and 40k armies, they have a lot of stuff that--going by AoS' standards--could work as its own army but they managed to bring some pretty disparate concepts together in a unified way thanks to common themes and design cues.

 

[Baron Klatz]

There’s also the opportunity they could push harder on the variety of sub-faction Lodges already within the Lore that have very interesting schemes to them and either make specialized units or even upgrade kits for.

Tangrim is a stand-out as a Celtic x Japanese cross:

Fiery Samurai styled berserkers in colors of gold & white with stars & comets in their beards backed up by lightning spitting Magmadrakes?-

“Magmadroth sub-species: Magmadrakes: A lightning-spitting offshoot from the Realm of Azyr.

Metalodroths: A metal-spewing offshoot from the Realm of Chamon.

Mortadroths: A sulphur-fuming offshoot from the Realm of Shyish”

-Yes please!

[Clan's Cynic]

25 minutes ago, KriticalKhan said:

The sad irony of Fyreslayer wishlisting I've noticed is that everyone complains about how same-y the units are and that it's just the same concept over and over again, and when you ask them what they want to see it always ends up being Magmadroth cavalry and more dwarf infantry with slightly different weapons.

Fyreslayers aren't bound by the same rules and conventions of Warhammer Fantasy dwarfs so they could go all-out with the Warhammer wackiness and high fantasy stuff AoS is known for. Instead of Magmadroths (but SMALLER) make their cavalry salamanders or fire ants.

Bring back the axe hewer or give them a trebuchet that throws explosive barrels of ale (with the joke being that the REALLY strong stuff gets kept for drinking--the weaker, less explosive batches are only good for war).

Fyreslayers that have so many runes embedded in them that they've turned into monstrous infantry golems that aren't even recognizable as living creatures.

Take a page out of the Chaos Dwarf's book and give them bound fire spirits (Ah, but I've just remembered they already did this but only made a single endless spell....)

If you want to add more infantry, it really has to stand out. Something like super-heavy armor shield bearers who hold the line for the berzerkers to do the killing or ones who eschew traditional weapons for rune power fists or brass knuckles embedded in their flesh (maybe they were shamed like old slayers and had to shave their beards if you really want them to look different). Unironically, I think a few infantry options without mohawk helmets would go a long way toward diversifying their visuals on the tabletop. Bonus points if the heads are compatible with old kits to give some variety there.

I don't think you have to change what Fyreslayers ARE, but you need to give them more that isn't the exact same thing. When you look at the bigger Fantasy and 40k armies, they have a lot of stuff that--going by AoS' standards--could work as its own army but they managed to bring some pretty disparate concepts together in a unified way thanks to common themes and design cues.

 

I personally don't want Magmadroth cavalry. I think getting Mini-Droths is encroaching too closely into Lizardmen territory and risks flanderising the faction, but I realise I'm in the minority on that one.

Myself, I'd rather they leaned a lot more into the 'fire elemental' side of things. There are hints early on that the Fyreslayers were also meant to be a continuation of the Chorfs in some form in addition to the Slayers (lack of 'tashes on some models, the suspiciously similar names of some things, the fire theme). Something like a less-demonic Ka'daai, rune golems infused with Ur-Gold, a throwback to the Goblin-Hewer as you mentioned.

There really is a lot they could do with the faction and I'm honestly surprised GW haven't leaned into the potential design space more. Hell, we had a Fire vs Water-themed box set last year already, so they're obviously aware of the elemental flavour of the army. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[Captaniser]

3 hours ago, Magnusaur said:

Love the Raptadons, but those Skink riders... Compared to the artwork above, they look super goofy to me. Why the strong jaw and weird nostrils? The Chotec herders and Starseer are much better, so what happened here?

 

You know what they remind me of?

 

 

Good ol' Skeavis and skinkhead

[KingKull]

1 minute ago, Captaniser said:

 

You know what they remind me of?

 

 

Good ol' Skeavis and skinkhead

I'm literally wheezing 

[Lord Veshnakar]

I think Fyreslayers have phenomenal lore. If anyone ever dumps on them too hard I know they haven't read much of their actual lore. These guys are religious fanatics who are so obsessed with seeing their fallen good return that they will literally hammer pieces of him into their bodies, and when doing so they are given visions of Grimnir's actual final moments in the battle against Vulcatrix.

Some become so obsessed with it that they keep hammering more and more runes to taste Grimnir's power. Going even so far as to kill other Fyreslayers to steal their runes. Additionally when Grimnir and Vulcatrix exploded in their final battle, their essence coalesced. So Grimnir's essence is also loaded with Vulcatrix's essence, so the Fyreslayers are tapping into the Ur-Salamander as well. Hence the control over magma in the Zharrgrim Priesthood, and the close relationship with Magmadroths. It's a super deep faction with a lot of untapped potential with a disappointingly small model range. 

Great ideas to add to Fyreslayers that break the atypical Dwarf/duardin mold and give them a lot of character, all lore friendly:

• Magma Constructs (Ogor/4 wound sized and perhaps Large monster sized as well): Already seen in part in the Magmic Invocation The Molten Infernoth, but the Zharrgrim Priesthood have literal control over Lava/Magama floes. Imagine Magma Golems (like K'daii from Chaos Dwarfs) with Fyreslayer Binding Runes all over it. 
   
• Vulcatrix/Grimnir Cultists/Fanatics: Fyreslayers with partial scaly skin/scale cloaks/kilts, breathe fire, shave their heads, actual fire for hair/beards, look absolutely insane, tons of runes hammered into their skin, explode when they die
   
• Hatchling Magmadroths: Function like Seraphon Salamanders but smaller and not as potent 
   
• Chosen of Vulcatrix: Fyreslayer Dragon Ogors basically, upper half but Scaly/fiery, fangs/horns/crests, huge fiery beards and lower half are dragon ogre sized Magmadroth styled legs
   
• Gigadroth: Already mentioned a lot in the lore, we also got the skeleton of it, giant Magamadroths essentially
   
• Magma  Cannons: The tech is there via Magmapikes carried by the Auric Hearthguard, but think on a large scale. I'd like to see it more mobile though as static is more traditional dwarf, not Fyreslayer styled, maybe on the back of the Gigadroth war platform or an Adolescent Magmadroth.

All of this would do a lot to really make Fyreslayers stand out. Make them more of a monster/medium monster supported infantry faction, stay away from cavalry. It's cool to play Dwarfs with a lot of monsters IMHO. That's kind of the Fyreslayer thing.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Lord Veshnakar

[Kempak]

As a fyreplayer too I enjoyed my army but it did get samey with limited strategies you could win, it is a mid-high tier army and does require to remember lots of buffs and not forget to do certain actions.

Gotrek is the avatar of grimnir

Grombrindal is the avatar of grungi 

In the grombrindal books it confirmed that gotrek books they met him already he was the old dwarf who disappeared in the silver tower and later returns in this novel in the desert and shows gotrek some of.his.true prowess.

I think fyreplayer work with their own aesthetics I was originally attracted due to Viking esque theme and were my first aos army proper.

Give long axe wielding riders of young magamdroths in a unit of 3 for cavalry would sort a big issue out.

Also as they are dwarfs albeit more medieval than kharadron they should get the magmacannon or flame cannon would work.

For the dispossessed they should make a tankier model of grombrindal like that on his book cover to lead them is cos/dawnbringers or dwarfs should go down a dawi soup mix all three into one book allow for a big waaagh system or allow them to be individual.

[Chikout]

I think for visual interest an army needs a variety of these things:  small creatures, light infantry, heavy infantry, flying infantry, flying cavalry,  light cavalry, heavy cavalry, monstrous infantry, war machine and large monster and heroes to fit each category of unit. 

Fyreslayers only tick three of these unit boxes and even then the light and heavy infantry look similar. Unfortunately I think the core kits aren't very well done. As has been noted they all have similar expressions and awkward poses. Not a single model is yelling. No-one is swinging their weapon or pointing or standing at rest. No-one is aiming their fyrepike. They are all just holding up their weapons as if they were in show and tell at school.  Even the heroes are either standing with their weapons held up or running with their weapon held up. 

I think Fyreslayers need a full resculpt. Mix some some female Duardin into the core units. Make the elite units more heavily armoured. Redesign the fyrepikes so that they need a tank of fuel strapped to the back. Add some hounds that look like terriers which can dig tunnels. Make that invocation into a unit of fire elementals.  Add some cavalry; both Salamanders as someone mentioned and mini magmadroths as the heavy cavalry option and add a Firedrake like we've seen in some of the art as the true centrepiece kit. There's also definitely room for doing a Katakros style diorama kit. 

 

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

They had one job.

[Tendeadgods]

[Baron Klatz]

Oooh, that’s nifty the Realmshaper acts differently depending on your Allegiance.

Also neat to see how easy the Battleline options are. I was expecting more Saurus or Skink general condition.

And still haven’t allied back with Sylvaneth yet. I guess only after the Era of the Beast is over they might be forgiven for Yggdrasiling all over the Astromatrix so much and not leafing it alone.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Baron Klatz

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

3 hours ago, Lord Veshnakar said:

I think Fyreslayers have phenomenal lore. If anyone ever dumps on them too hard I know they haven't read much of their actual lore. These guys are religious fanatics who are so obsessed with seeing their fallen good return that they will literally hammer pieces of him into their bodies, and when doing so they are given visions of Grimnir's actual final moments in the battle against Vulcatrix.

Some become so obsessed with it that they keep hammering more and more runes to taste Grimnir's power. Going even so far as to kill other Fyreslayers to steal their runes. Additionally when Grimnir and Vulcatrix exploded in their final battle, their essence coalesced. So Grimnir's essence is also loaded with Vulcatrix's essence, so the Fyreslayers are tapping into the Ur-Salamander as well. Hence the control over magma in the Zharrgrim Priesthood, and the close relationship with Magmadroths. It's a super deep faction with a lot of untapped potential with a disappointingly small model range. 

Great ideas to add to Fyreslayers that break the atypical Dwarf/duardin mold and give them a lot of character, all lore friendly:

• Magma Constructs (Ogor/4 wound sized and perhaps Large monster sized as well): Already seen in part in the Magmic Invocation The Molten Infernoth, but the Zharrgrim Priesthood have literal control over Lava/Magama floes. Imagine Magma Golems (like K'daii from Chaos Dwarfs) with Fyreslayer Binding Runes all over it. 
   
• Vulcatrix/Grimnir Cultists/Fanatics: Fyreslayers with partial scaly skin/scale cloaks/kilts, breathe fire, shave their heads, actual fire for hair/beards, look absolutely insane, tons of runes hammered into their skin, explode when they die
   
• Hatchling Magmadroths: Function like Seraphon Salamanders but smaller and not as potent 
   
• Chosen of Vulcatrix: Fyreslayer Dragon Ogors basically, upper half but Scaly/fiery, fangs/horns/crests, huge fiery beards and lower half are dragon ogre sized Magmadroth styled legs
   
• Gigadroth: Already mentioned a lot in the lore, we also got the skeleton of it, giant Magamadroths essentially
   
• Magma  Cannons: The tech is there via Magmapikes carried by the Auric Hearthguard, but think on a large scale. I'd like to see it more mobile though as static is more traditional dwarf, not Fyreslayer styled, maybe on the back of the Gigadroth war platform or an Adolescent Magmadroth.

All of this would do a lot to really make Fyreslayers stand out. Make them more of a monster/medium monster supported infantry faction, stay away from cavalry. It's cool to play Dwarfs with a lot of monsters IMHO. That's kind of the Fyreslayer thing.

If we're going to brainstorm new Fyreslayer concepts, I've always been partial to the Fyreslayers literally surfing on lava, with the big lava waves as part of the sculpt!

[Ivo]

1 hour ago, Tendeadgods said:

Rip Razordons

[Matrindur]

2 hours ago, Tendeadgods said:

Razordons gone as expected but also Eternity Warden, Sunblood and Skink Priest

Edited April 19, 2023 by Matrindur

[cofaxest]

3 hours ago, Chikout said:

I think for visual interest an army needs a variety of these things:  small creatures, light infantry, heavy infantry, flying infantry, flying cavalry,  light cavalry, heavy cavalry, monstrous infantry, war machine and large monster and heroes to fit each category of unit. 

Fyreslayers only tick three of these unit boxes and even then the light and heavy infantry look similar. Unfortunately I think the core kits aren't very well done. As has been noted they all have similar expressions and awkward poses. Not a single model is yelling. No-one is swinging their weapon or pointing or standing at rest. No-one is aiming their fyrepike. They are all just holding up their weapons as if they were in show and tell at school.  Even the heroes are either standing with their weapons held up or running with their weapon held up. 

I think Fyreslayers need a full resculpt. Mix some some female Duardin into the core units. Make the elite units more heavily armoured. Redesign the fyrepikes so that they need a tank of fuel strapped to the back. Add some hounds that look like terriers which can dig tunnels. Make that invocation into a unit of fire elementals.  Add some cavalry; both Salamanders as someone mentioned and mini magmadroths as the heavy cavalry option and add a Firedrake like we've seen in some of the art as the true centrepiece kit. There's also definitely room for doing a Katakros style diorama kit. 

 

1) Anvil of doom as Katakros style diorama

2) Fyrequeen/Fyredaughter on palanquin with 4 hearthguards holding it

3) Firecannon/magmamortar dualkit

4) Youngflames - 1w base infantry (I see them as buffer non battleline unit. For each young flame unit player can pick one other unit as their sworn protector and gain bonuses being near it)

5) Elite unit of female warriors (more armour, more weapon options)

6) 6-7w Halfdroths blessed unit of monster heavy cavalry unit(magma spit, asid blood)

7) 3w - blessed infantry unit (something like StD chosen unit but with Magmadroths aspects) 

8] 5w 5+ save 4+ ward Doomseekers units - something like elite unit of Grimnir worshipers. For each dead model +1 to dmg of their weapon

9) Drothling Chariots

10) Gholemkind infused with ur-gold runes

[Kitsumy]

and engine of gods isnt priest neither. so lost every priest on army.

wtf saurus getting his points doubled???

 

and troglodon keeping his joke high points. or solar engine keeping his absurded cost too when im totally sure we will loose the fire 2 times things. that keep him cloose to balanced before.

 

those points are enforcing my prior fears about gw doing his typical thing on a "op" book at the time....

[Gailon]

57 minutes ago, Kitsumy said:

and engine of gods isnt priest neither. so lost every priest on army.

wtf saurus getting his points doubled???

 

and troglodon keeping his joke high points. or solar engine keeping his absurded cost too when im totally sure we will loose the fire 2 times things. that keep him cloose to balanced before.

 

those points are enforcing my prior fears about gw doing his typical thing on a "op" book at the time....

I think the Saurus points confirms that they will be two wounds. Keeping then at 10 points a wound. 
 

So many mothballed units is a bit of a bummer. 

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, Kitsumy said:

and engine of gods isnt priest neither. so lost every priest on army.

wtf saurus getting his points doubled???

 

and troglodon keeping his joke high points. or solar engine keeping his absurded cost too when im totally sure we will loose the fire 2 times things. that keep him cloose to balanced before.

 

those points are enforcing my prior fears about gw doing his typical thing on a "op" book at the time....

Skink starpriest?

[Still-young]

I know they have limits and probably can’t update everything at once and stuff but it’s pretty wild to me that Saurus Guard are still around as they were now that we have new Saurus and Saurus Cavalry. They barely look like the same creature anymore. 

[Matrindur]

57 minutes ago, Still-young said:

I know they have limits and probably can’t update everything at once and stuff but it’s pretty wild to me that Saurus Guard are still around as they were now that we have new Saurus and Saurus Cavalry. They barely look like the same creature anymore. 

Exspecially since the is Eternity Warden gone, would have expected them to either include both to update them in the future or discontinue both

Edited April 19, 2023 by Matrindur

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, Still-young said:

I know they have limits and probably can’t update everything at once and stuff but it’s pretty wild to me that Saurus Guard are still around as they were now that we have new Saurus and Saurus Cavalry. They barely look like the same creature anymore. 

Grave Guard Treatment for reasons unknown

[Grungnisson]

12 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

One of the biggest issue is their faces. They have only one expression. And it's a rather neutral face.

Look at just the face, and tell me the difference.

Oh, man... Wait till you see Irondrakes and/or Ironbreakers! 😱

[rattila]

Aggradon lancers as battleline ! Wouhouh ! Now i can plan cavalry - only list who will looking good with that army… plan for 2024 !

[JackStreicher]

9 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

There really is a lot they could do with the faction and I'm honestly surprised GW haven't leaned

That’s a general issue imo.

- They could’ve gone nuts already with weird fish-creatures for the Idoneth, but they didn’t.

- They could’ve gone nuts already with weird snake and Blood-creatures for the Daughters of Khaine, but they didn’t.

- They could’ve gone nuts already with weird Tzeentch creatures, but they didn’t

- They could’ve gone nuts already with weird Swamp stuff for the Kruleboyz, but they didn’t

- They could’ve gone nuts already with weird undead and Construct/Vampire-creatures for the SBGl, but they only did one meh hero.

- They could’ve gone nuts already with weird Dinosaur Monsters for Seraphon, but they didn’t.

And the list goes on and on