RIP Hedonites of Slaanesh Battletome (2021)

[LuminethMage]

9 hours ago, Enoby said:

I don't see it as too bad, if they're just two new warscrolls AoS has the benefit of free warscrolls so any additional ones come at no additional cost. The battalions are also pretty unspecific in HoS so these guys can fit in them no problem.

I very rarely look to my battletome for warscrolls anyway. 

We don't know yet if that is really all there is though. There might be some rule changes, battalions etc. in the book too. 

Mind you, I'm generally more on the "who cares" side on all of this, but it's best to judge after we know what's actually in the Broken Realms book. 

Anyway - awesome miniature! : ) 

[Clan's Cynic]

44 minutes ago, yukishiro1 said:

Immediate DLC - whether just before, at the exact same time as, or just after - new army books is the new GW model. You're seeing it in 40k too. It isn't enough to charge people $50 for a new army book these days, ideally you charge them another $50 for the DLC too. If they had given you these in the new Slaanesh battletome as they obviously could have, it wouldn't be as easy to induce you to buy the new BR book. 

GW don't care because they know most people will lap it up regardless. I'm sure if they put out a new version of the Marine codex every month people would pay full price for it.

[Indecisive]

I like having model releases decoupled from books, what's the point of free warscrolls if you can't have one off models without being attached to a new battletome.

[Fairbanks]

3 hours ago, Howdyhedberg said:

But I would also rather get new models than waiting forever for a new update.

I totally agree, and can even relate. I spent most of 2020 and 2021 wondering where the Plastic Slann was for Seraphon (I figured they forgot about it).

But Hedonites just got new models. They're so new that they are still in the shrinkwrap (That may have more to do with the battletome contents)

2 hours ago, Athrawes said:

People will whine about anything.

GW said Broken realms will touch on every army, and the new slaanesh battletome was not tied to any specific Broken realms book yet released.

And you thought that meant every army but mine will have supplemental rules in a broken realms book? by the end of this every army is meant to have rules in at least two places, Slaanesh despite getting a new tome, is no different. 

Silly.

I own a little of every army, so it's not a slight that's 'Personal'.

I'm annoyed that GW launched an incomplete Battletome, again. Worse still, it's for a Battletome that GOT NEW MODELS DURING THE EXACT SAME STORY EVENT. This isn't an oversight, it's something that should have been caught immediately.

I'm a fan of GW and a fan of sports, so I'll use an analogy. It feels like they punted on a 4th and 1 at the thirty when they're down by 3 with ten seconds left. The return man downfield muffed the punt and they scooped to score. Sure your team won the game, but there was a very major coaching error that should be raising red flags.

[Joseph Mackay]

7 hours ago, novakai said:

i don't think it was COVID because the first battletome was probably done in 2019 before the pandemic, they started advertising the spring army release in January before the spread even happen I think what may have cause the split was rather 40K 9th edition that was slated for that summer and they couldn't everything out in that deadline before production began for 40K

Weather covid affected Lumineth directly, or other releases that then delayed Lumineth is kind of irrelevant. I suspect *something* happened and the ‘wave 2’ models weren’t going to be out in time.

the limited edition battletome Howe is a different story, I believe that was supposed to be a ‘preview’ until the real one came out, until whatever went wrong happened

[The World Tree]

Given that warscrolls are free, I don't see the problem.

[Inquisitorsz]

4 hours ago, Indecisive said:

I like having model releases decoupled from books, what's the point of free warscrolls if you can't have one off models without being attached to a new battletome.

I absolutely agree..... But that only works when there aren't other things locked away inside a battletome. All the rules should be free like heaps of other similar games. 
Leave the battletomes for narrative scenarios, painting guides, lore, artwork etc... 

The rules already get outdated when FAQs and new stuff comes out shortly afterwards. I would be far more likely to drop $70AUD on a book if it actually didn't have rules in it. Then it wouldn't feel like I'm buying an obsolete or short shelf life product. Even if the rules are "extra" to all that other stuff.... I know that's pedantic but the value "feels" different.   

Same goes for stuff like WD specific rules.... If you didn't buy a specific WD, there was no official/legal way to get those battalion rules (eg for Nighthaunt). All of that stuff should be readily available online just like the basic warscrolls are. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Inquisitorsz

[Aeryenn]

Sorry, it's just messy and I see no explanation for that. They could have easily either wait two months with the battletome or include these warscrolls in the new battletome and say "sorry, we have transport troubles, expect these models in two months". Easy.

It's almost as if GW is testing their clients how far they can go. Judging by previous responses in this topic - pretty far. Expect an era of battletomes & supplements. "Want complete rules? Get the new Slaneesh supplement for only $xx! But that's not all! In six months we'll release new battalions in Slaanesh Excess Supplement!"

Have fun.

[AaronWilson]

Fairly sure these warscrolls will just be separate to the battletome and that's it. 

[Beliman]

7 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

It's almost as if GW is testing their clients how far they can go. Judging by previous responses in this topic - pretty far. Expect an era of battletomes & supplements. "Want complete rules? Get the new Slaneesh supplement for only $xx! But that's not all! In six months we'll release new battalions in Slaanesh Excess Supplement!"

It's not "how far they can go", it's just how seriously you take your hobby.

You don't need to buy from GW nor accept their philosophy. Just don't buy from them, it's your choice (I'm in and out of the hobby, so, if something is not for my taste, I just take a break).

[Heijoshin]

Sure, at the end of the day, warscrolls are free. But those 20€ warscroll cards are now incomplete after only 2 months. I know plenty of people that use these cards and have them laid out during the game. For them, that's part of the experience. 

Let's not forget that for many people, planning and budgeting their army is necessary. I can imagine there are plenty of people that are like "Well, if I had known this was coming, I wouldn't have bought this other model". 

So many answers to GWs mishaps are always "Yeah but COVID / Brexit / Boat stuck in canal", like these issue completely tie GW's hands and there is literally no other alternative. At the end of the day, despite what happened with Brexit and Covid, GW still CHOSE to split their Lumineth release. They still CHOSE to delete all mentions of Cursed City being permanent, then go MIA on the topic. Sure, I get it. Plans change, but when the choice of plan B is "what's best for the customer and slightly less better for GW" and "what's best for GW but definitely not cool for at least some customers", they've chosen themselves every. single. time. And I know what you are gonna say: "Yeah, but they are a company! They need to make money!". Yeah, you're right, but a) they're a multi-milllion pound company and had their best year ever last year, so i'm sure they will survive making a little bit less than expected for once. Let's be honest, would GW REALLY have made any less money if they had moved the HoS battletome back a few months to coincide with this model release? Again, delaying would have been fine, but GW CHOSE not to, to the detriment of some people I imagine  b) despite the fact that people admit that GW is a company, there's always a very vocal group that really go out of their way to try and humanise them and give them a pass as if they are some poor helpless indie that just has to do these sort of things to get by. 

Things like this new model are less outright damaging, but I just can't help but sigh and think "But why???". Why do you keep doing this? Lumineth, Cursed City, this (admittedly less damaging, but still in the same spirit). It really boggles my mind that such simple, honest and human communication is completely beyond them, but would go SUCH a long way to helping us empathise with them. 

Oh and lastly, are we expected to believe that it will only be this model? What about a new batallion? or a new sub-faction / spell lore etc? It is coming a long with BR: Kragnos afterall and HoS haven't been touched yet. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Heijoshin

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

8 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

We don't know yet if that is really all there is though. There might be some rule changes, battalions etc. in the book too. 

Mind you, I'm generally more on the "who cares" side on all of this, but it's best to judge after we know what's actually in the Broken Realms book. 

Anyway - awesome miniature! : ) 

I was thinking this, too. I would say at least a battalion is likely. Maybe that would actually be a good way to make the twins playable: Each one on it's own is ~300-350 points, but if you bring both there is a battalion for the two of them that bumps them up to Teclis or Nagash levels while they are together. Would be a way to get those cool models on the table at a reasonable point of mechanical power and without having to build your whole army around them, but with the option to go 800 points deep and have them be as powerful as the narrative will no doubt imply if you want to.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[Aeryenn]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

It's not "how far they can go", it's just how seriously you take your hobby.

You don't need to buy from GW nor accept their philosophy. Just don't buy from them, it's your choice (I'm in and out of the hobby, so, if something is not for my taste, I just take a break).

This is true but I'd rather try to influence a change to their actions than abandon my favorite hobby.

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, Aeryenn said:

This is true but I'd rather try to influence a change to their actions than abandon my favorite hobby.

That's exactly what I'm saying.
That's the point with "I don't want to buy it", it's a clear message.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Beliman

[EMMachine]

3 hours ago, Heijoshin said:

o many answers to GWs mishaps are always "Yeah but COVID / Brexit / Boat stuck in canal", like these issue completely tie GW's hands and there is literally no other alternative. At the end of the day, despite what happened with Brexit and Covid, GW still CHOSE to split their Lumineth release. They still CHOSE to delete all mentions of Cursed City being permanent, then go MIA on the topic. Sure, I get it. Plans change, but when the choice of plan B is "what's best for the customer and slightly less better for GW" and "what's best for GW but definitely not cool for at least some customers", they've chosen themselves every. single. time. And I know what you are gonna say: "Yeah, but they are a company! They need to make money!". Yeah, you're right, but a) they're a multi-milllion pound company and had their best year ever last year, so i'm sure they will survive making a little bit less than expected for once. Let's be honest, would GW REALLY have made any less money if they had moved the HoS battletome back a few months to coincide with this model release? Again, delaying would have been fine, but GW CHOSE not to, to the detriment of some people I imagine  b) despite the fact that people admit that GW is a company, there's always a very vocal group that really go out of their way to try and humanise them and give them a pass as if they are some poor helpless indie that just has to do these sort of things to get by. 

Things like this new model are less outright damaging, but I just can't help but sigh and think "But why???". Why do you keep doing this? Lumineth, Cursed City, this (admittedly less damaging, but still in the same spirit). It really boggles my mind that such simple, honest and human communication is completely beyond them, but would go SUCH a long way to helping us empathise with them. 

I have the feeling Battletome Releases at the same time as the Broken Realms campaign feels a little rushed. (And I had this feeling when the Battletome for Slaanesh was announced).

GW would have been able to add the warscrolls of new models in the campaignbooks were the models were needed and than bring anything together in 3. Edition with a new Battletome. That way slaanesh could have multiple releases and still it would be 1 Battletome Release at the end.

[Overread]

It's important to realise that after the Chapterhouse Court Case GW adopted the "no models no rules" policy in their battletomes and codex as a general policy. This means if GW isn't going to sell a model within a short span of time after the book goes on sale, then the models rules won't go in the book. This prevents 3rd parties providing alternative models and "stealing" the market from GW before GW can release the model. 

 

We also know that armies which go a long long time without any new models get frustrated fans. So drip feeding models, as well as big chunky releases, is a thing most people are happy with. By and large we all want new things for our armies. 

 

I honestly think GW could take a leaf from the old warmachine style and put warscroll cards into the box not just as a slip of paper but the proper cards themselves. That way new models would come with the "new rules" and be a complete package in themselves. Of course GW does this right now with expansion books and it seems to work well for them

 

 

Slaanesh only feels odd because we only just got the book; however it would likely be closer to 6 months old by now rather than only a few because of the delays and snarlups around brexit/covid messing up GW's release plan and pattern. The actual campaign book is likely closer to its original release date (if we assume GW is releasing them in a run up to a mid-year release of a new edition or other major event). 

In the end these two models likely just add two new warscrolls the army; plus perhaps a theme list based around them. Otherwise the whole rest of the battletome remains 100% valid. 

[Howdyhedberg]

15 hours ago, Chikout said:

Be careful what you wish for. Gw did this for 40k but as a result they stopped doing digital codexes completely and introduced an app that charged a high price for limited functionality. There is now no way to have the lore and art of the 40k codexes in a digital format.  A more sensible solution is for gw to offer digital battletomes which are updated with every faq, points change and updated/new warscrolls. 

Didn't know that they canned the digital only edition. That's not ideal either... 

[Howdyhedberg]

15 hours ago, Chikout said:

 

Double post. Sorry

Edited April 20, 2021 by Howdyhedberg

[Popisdead]

On 4/19/2021 at 8:04 AM, Fairbanks said:

It went a whole two months before being outdated.

Enjoy your new monsters you heathens.

 

To address the incoming comment: Yes, these models do need their own thread.

If only we could address sweeping comments of doom before posters made dumb threads.

[Nagash42]

Oo maybe this means we might get mounted lord on boobsnake back someday. 

[warhammernerd]

On 4/19/2021 at 11:25 PM, Joseph Mackay said:

This. Additionally, the app is the most *official* source of warscrolls as it’s the only format that gets updated with the errata etc. the PDF downloads on the webstore the 100% just photocopy’s of either the physical warscroll card or the page from a battletome. Beyond that, they never update them

That said, the app is absolutely garbage. 
On a monthly basis you get locked out of the Azyr despite subscriptions continuing, which means deleting and reinstalling app (losing all lists). Which btw I’ve had numerous email convos with GW about over years with no change. 
It’s almost always late to update, frequently weeks and in some cases months behind book release schedule. It’s full of mistakes, with warscrolls having the wrong info input. And crucially, it doesn’t allow you to export lists in anything even approaching a useful format, certainly not for tournaments. So much so that having subscribed to it since release, which has cost me close to £100 now, I’ve binned it off.

Warwcroll Builder however, is a thing of sublime joy.

[RuneBrush]

19 hours ago, Overread said:

It's important to realise that after the Chapterhouse Court Case GW adopted the "no models no rules" policy in their battletomes and codex as a general policy. This means if GW isn't going to sell a model within a short span of time after the book goes on sale, then the models rules won't go in the book. This prevents 3rd parties providing alternative models and "stealing" the market from GW before GW can release the model. 

Absolutely this.  Ultimately if you didn't have a minority out in the community who leaked rules or tried to profit off GW's designs we'd likely still be in a situation where units would appear in books before they actually appeared physically.

23 hours ago, Heijoshin said:

Let's not forget that for many people, planning and budgeting their army is necessary. I can imagine there are plenty of people that are like "Well, if I had known this was coming, I wouldn't have bought this other model". 

What I will say to this is that this isn't specific to GW.  It's pretty common practice to keep future releases & special offers secret until you release them.  Ultimately GW (and all businesses) want you to spend the maximum amount of money with them - it's a win win solution from a business perspective.  You either buy the first release and not the second or you buy both 🤷‍♂️

[Overread]

One thing I will say in GW's defence since they shifted to the roughly 3 months preview pattern that they are in now, is that when GW previews it you generally get the model within that timeframe. There are exceptions and annoyances along the way* but broadly speaking once they officially release info you get the model. I've known firms to show off models in the past and then leave you waiting years and never getting them. To build marketing hype on info far too early which results in disappointment. Not just in tabletop games either, computer games I've seen many firms do a huge spread of info on an upcoming game only for 5 years later to change almost everything as a result of practicalities of design. 

In the end I like that when GW shows me something I can expect to get it within (typically) a reasonable time frame. I like that they don't show off loads of concept art for something that then never delivers. I still want to see concept art in books and such, but to appreciate it as concepts not as hints of what is coming, but might take 20 years

 

 

*Forgeworld is a bit more haphazard, but I might put part of that down to internal politics and resource allocation that might be outside of FW's hands. Furthermore some models can take up to a year after release in limited edition duel army packs, before they hit the market on their own. 
Covid has also messed things up a lot but that's a unique situation

[PainfullyMediocre]

On 4/20/2021 at 12:32 PM, Overread said:

It's important to realise that after the Chapterhouse Court Case GW adopted the "no models no rules" policy in their battletomes and codex as a general policy. This means if GW isn't going to sell a model within a short span of time after the book goes on sale, then the models rules won't go in the book. This prevents 3rd parties providing alternative models and "stealing" the market from GW before GW can release the model. 

This isn't strictly true, Space Marines had a glut of new kits delayed after their codex dropped, with rules and pictures in the codex. 

Its a bit poor form for GW to do this as soon as they have. I don't mind the idea of supplements and out of codex model and rule releases, but they work better later on in a game's life as a way to pick up flagging factions as an edition creeps on.

[RuneBrush]

16 hours ago, PainfullyMediocre said:

This isn't strictly true, Space Marines had a glut of new kits delayed after their codex dropped, with rules and pictures in the codex. 

The Space Marine release schedule was messed up due to the pandemic.  Under normal circumstances the Codex & new models would have come out over a couple of weeks.