The Rumour Thread

[MitGas]

1 minute ago, Maogrim said:

And, for those who think I'm imagining things, I'd like to remind you of this guy, Ghazak Khan, who is a Hobgoblin from the olden days:

That is clearly problematic, not going to argue with that. But the new ones are quite different to me and don't look like caricatures of asian people anymore. Not sure this models should damn the new ones too, though.

But I'm like that with Fimir too... who had an unfortunate background but I love their design, so I hope they'll come back (I'm fine with them getting a totally changed background even if I personally find their disgusting background fitting as they're horrifying creatures but I understand that people find it offending) one day. 

[Maogrim]

4 minutes ago, MitGas said:

Oh, don't worry, never thought of you as a "filthy" leftist or would've pushed you into any other political camp from one single statement (and frankly I don't care about political standings), that would be quite insane (and sadly happens all the time now - trust me, I've been there, other end of the spectrum I got plenty of very unpopular opinions around here - even got my very own fan following me around and confusing himself over my posts).

I do understand your reasoning but I really can't see it in this particular case - I think they're removed enough form the real thing to make me take offense. I'm also not sure that GW (or others that create fantasy stuff often based on real world cultures) using influences from certain historical backgrounds or cultures/groups for an unfavorable outcome (like ugly hobgoblins or brutish, horrific northmen) does necessarily contain a racist or otherwise judging statement. IMO they think the background is cool (or funny, or whatever else may apply) and repurpose it, simple as that. It doesn't mean they find the original inspiration bad just because they used it for evil and/or ugly creatures. 

And I see it all the time that things get called out for being sexist or racist when in reality you really need to warp reality around for it to be so. That's why I say it might be better for all of us to not immediately suspect and/or assume the most negative things. It's at a point where you can't even state rather neutral things because it immediately gets pushed into the "bad" direction to kill a sound argument. And to me, the most important thing is that people can freely say what they think without it being immediately censored because it rubs some the wrong way - this self-entitled moral superiority pushes people apart instead of bringing them together. 

And in that spirit: all cool and I'm not respecting your opinion any less now but personally I think you see something that doesn't have to be there. It's obviously your right to do so and I certainly don't want to paint you in a certain light because of it and actually my post wasn't meant to "call you out" in particular, even if it inadvertendly did so (sorry for that) but I just think it would be good to not assume the worst of the designers. They basically just tried to make cool hobgoblins. Stuff like that happens often - people want to do cool stuff and something about it COULD be seen in a bad light and that taints an actually good thing that came from the right spot.

Thank you for clarifying. I wasn't going to take it personally anyway, but it's still nice that you cared to explain :).

I usually try not to be overly sensitive and actually strongly argued against the assumption that Daughters of Khaine were sexist in another thread around here. But those Hobgrotz really rub me the wrong way..

[MitGas]

Just now, Maogrim said:

Thank you for clarifying. I wasn't going to take it personally anyway, but it's still nice that you cared to explain :).

I usually try not to be overly sensitive and actually strongly argued against the assumption that Daughters of Khaine were sexist in another thread around here. But those Hobgrotz really rub me the wrong way..

No worries and like I've said, I totally understand where you are coming from (especially after reposting the old mini) but like I've also said before  - the sins of the past should not taint the present. So I hope that with another paintjob and more background coming out, they'll turn out to be more than what they've started as and can be a worthy addition to AoS in your eyes too.

[Jefferson Skarsnik]

There is an infamous Tolkien quote about his orcs being "flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes: in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types" which I guess was the progenitor of Warhammer's own conscious-or-otherwise adoption of that stereotype - interestingly Warhammer's regular non-Hob orcs and goblins pulled away from that kind of thing quite decisively I think?

[Yoid]

These Annihilators deal a lot of MW for free, and even without that they got very good combat profiles. Only way of them being balanced would be to cost between 200 and 300 points. We will see.

They feel like a nail in the coffin of Slaangors. Like, their profiles and rules are basically what Slaangors should have been, minus the high save (compensated with the plus movement).

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

1 hour ago, FFJump said:

I've seen mixed reactions to them. They're either you love them or you hate them. Personally, they're my favorite models from the set. I love how they look, but it might be my Chaos Dwarf bias. I'm a huge fan of their skin color too, I'm glad GW actually made a paint for them (Hobgrot Hide) because I'm painting them that way. I know the color looks like puke basically, but I like how distinct it is in a sea of green, while not being horribly out of place. It really points out hey, these aren't orruks or typical grots. I'm kind of hoping they have hobgrot wolf riders and a leader too so I could make a pure hobgrot army 

That might be true.  For me, Kruelboyz don't elicit any reaction, so I am rather neutral ("What makes a man turn neutral ... Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?").  There are very nice, detailed models.  I kinda feel they don't fit current AoS aesthetically, but I also think that as more is added/refreshed that will probably be less the case as these models are the clearest example of the new GW style and a long ways away from 2000-2010s GW style.  Just the same, nothing in Dominion sparks anything in me.

Which is fine (great really). I have a S2D and LRL which is plenty or armies for me.  Heck, I haven't even started collecting any Wave 2 Lumineth yet.  Point is, I know that not every faction is going to work for every person.  They don't have to.  They just have to work for enough people. I think the Kruelboyz do, and I am happy to see all manner of different factions/armies across the table from me.

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

Double Post

Edited June 6, 2021 by Saturmorn Carvilli

[Snorri Nelriksson]

I always liked that the Chaos dwarves Hobgoblins were clearly scythian and not mongolian differing them from Oglah Khan ones(and he did'nt have the same problems of Ghazak,he just had a goblinoid face if i recall correctly),as chaos dwarves were persians so taking from the same timeframe.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Snorri Nelriksson

[Erdemo86]

9 minutes ago, Yoid said:

These Annihilators deal a lot of MW for free, and even without that they got very good combat profiles. Only way of them being balanced would be to cost between 200 and 300 points. We will see.

They feel like a nail in the coffin of Slaangors. Like, their profiles and rules are basically what Slaangors should have been, minus the high save (compensated with the plus movement).

I don’t think anyone would play them for 200-300 points. Minimum size is 3 you know that right? So 9 wounds for 200-300 points would be close to not playable I think.. and the mw Output is not bad, but far from a lot. First you have to get that 9 inch charge.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Erdemo86

[Jefferson Skarsnik]

2 minutes ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

That might be true.  For me, Kruelboyz don't elicit any reaction, so I am rather neutral ("What makes a man turn neutral ... Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?").  There are very nice, detailed models.  I kinda feel they don't fit current AoS aesthetically, but I also think that as more is added/refreshed that will probably be less the case as these models are the clearest example of the new GW style and a long ways away from 2000-2010s GW style.  Just the same, nothing in Dominion sparks anything in me.

Which is fine (great really). I have a S2D and LRL which is plenty or armies for me.  Heck, I haven't even started collecting any Wave 2 Lumineth yet.  Point is, I know that not every faction is going to work for every person.  They don't have to.  They just have to work for enough people. I think the Kruelboyz do, and I am happy to see all manner of different factions/armies across the table from me.

Yeah I feel you, those Dominion models are all technically good and I get why people are excited about them, but they just sparked absolutely no excitement/desire to spend £100 on the box in me whatsoever (possible small frisson of stabgrot-related excitement notwithstanding). I also do S2D and LRL so maybe there are Warhammer star signs you can use to confidently predict exactly who will like what

God maybe they're already doing that at GW

 

[Juicy]

1 minute ago, Erdemo86 said:

I don’t think anyone would play them for 200-300 points. Minimum size is 3 you know that right? So 9 wounds for 200-300 points would be close to not playable I think..

more like 150 points.

[Erdemo86]

1 minute ago, Juicy said:

more like 150 points.

That’s where I would see them too.

[KingBrodd]

All I know is Hobgrots will squish just like any other Greenie and probably taste a bit bitter in a Mawpot.

[Enoby]

I have a feeling they'll cost around 200. Not that this will necessarily be 'good', but I think GW often points based off unit type. So as these are paladins, they'll cost similar to other paladins.

Them costing 150 would make me even more sad/confused about Slaangors!

[Neverchosen]

3 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

All I know is Hobgrots will squish just like any other Greenie and probably taste a bit bitter in a Mawpot.

That is why I love Chaos Warriors: the Lego Bricks of the Mortal Realms! They should get mortal wounds on Gargants for stepping on them!

[MitGas]

19 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

That is why I love Chaos Warriors: the Lego Bricks of the Mortal Realms! They should get mortal wounds on Gargants for stepping on them!

The next ones will sport those infamous Chaos bunny ears shaped like lego bricks for maximum damage. 😎 Having realized that their warscroll will never let them deal damage, they had to be cunning!

[Erdemo86]

26 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I have a feeling they'll cost around 200. Not that this will necessarily be 'good', but I think GW often points based off unit type. So as these are paladins, they'll cost similar to other paladins.

Them costing 150 would make me even more sad/confused about Slaangors!

Normal paladins come in units of 5 and have 15 wounds a unit not 9. But we will see.

[PrimeElectrid]

1 hour ago, Yoid said:

These Annihilators deal a lot of MW for free, and even without that they got very good combat profiles. Only way of them being balanced would be to cost between 200 and 300 points. We will see.

They feel like a nail in the coffin of Slaangors. Like, their profiles and rules are basically what Slaangors should have been, minus the high save (compensated with the plus movement).

“For free”

Within 10” on a 3+
On a 4+ after a 9” charge 

[OkayestDM]

5 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

“For free”

Within 10” on a 3+
On a 4+ after a 9” charge 

In their defense, I think they mean without a command point being spent or spell being used.

I like the fact that these "free" abilities are gated behind a die roll. It's good, but not a given.

[Saodexan]

26 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

“For free”

Within 10” on a 3+
On a 4+ after a 9” charge 

It's not 4+ after a 9'' charge.

You roll the number of dice and each 4+ is a mortal wound. If you charge for 6'' it's average 3 mortal wound. On every charge roll, not only after you deep strike them.

It's free because you don't use ressource or are limited once a battle. It's not a choice, you just do it every time you deep strike them, or charge them.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Saodexan

[Il Maestro]

24 minutes ago, Saodexan said:

It's not 4+ after a 9'' charge.

You roll the number of dice and each 4+ is a mortal wound. If you charge for 6'' it's average 3 mortal wound. On every charge roll, not only after you deep strike them.

It's free because you don't use ressource or are limited once a battle. It's not a choice, you just do it every time you deep strike them, or charge them.

And what’s interesting is they specified the unmodified charge roll, so no sneaky cogs/gav surecharge making them MW bombs… right? 

[herohammer]

My guess is 180 for the new fat men assuming that there is a general point increase in third edition in line with Soulblight and Slaanesh points and in keeping with the latest edition of 40K.

Edited June 7, 2021 by herohammer

[Doko]

6 hours ago, Yoid said:

These Annihilators deal a lot of MW for free, and even without that they got very good combat profiles. Only way of them being balanced would be to cost between 200 and 300 points. We will see.

They feel like a nail in the coffin of Slaangors. Like, their profiles and rules are basically what Slaangors should have been, minus the high save (compensated with the plus movement).

They have only 9 wounds and do the same damage than every other elite unit(as blackguard,hammerers,etc) that cost 120\140

They gonna cost 140\150 or they gonna be useless

[Sleboda]

4 hours ago, herohammer said:

My guess is 180 for the new fat men

1. What are "fat men?"

2. I'll reiterate my suggestion that this forum add a glossary with mouseover for terms that people seem inclined to use despite the confusion they create. If we can't get folks to embrace clear communication, can we at least offer those not in the "in" crowd a way to self serve knowledge?

[ArkanautDadmiral]

50 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

1. What are "fat men?"

2. I'll reiterate my suggestion that this forum add a glossary with mouseover for terms that people seem inclined to use despite the confusion they create. If we can't get folks to embrace clear communication, can we at least offer those not in the "in" crowd a way to self serve knowledge?

He’s referring to the Annihilators, which the past page or so of discussion has been about. There’s no clique or ‘in crowd’ about it, they’re larger models so he was just trying to refer to them in a humorous way, as part of the running discussion about them.