zilberfrid Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 52 minutes ago, Zanzou said: Shoulder Plate of Edassa means that his Wound count is actually the equivalent of 24.... 24 wounds of which you can only ever do at most 1 dmg per spell/ ability attack to... 24 effective wounds, can activate twice a turn, re-roll hit and wounds (of which, hit rolls of 6 inflict bonus d6 immediate mortal wounds). Power creep not toxic at all for this game. People on this forum will always just say to run away and throw away chaff for free every turn and that somehow makes the gameplay balanced and fun. I dunno. As a Freeguild player, I am not really all that scared of this dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 15 minutes ago, azmodan said: The problem is if You charge both of them he will win more then 80 of the Time. Its not the numbers on warscroll that bring the complains its the feeling of hopelessness. No matter what You do he will kill You. Exacly like Keeper of secrets.. It grinds, attack firsts and even if You kill her, he comes back. We know it is possiblle to win vs both its just really unfun when You dont. Aye, but part of wargames is working out what is a threat on your opponents army and then how to deal with it. Sometimes that requires methods other than trying to kill something; or killing it a different way than you might kill something else. I also think that some models appear far more scary than they really are because they appear to have a very powerful set of stats in a certain area. Gotrek appears really scary because he's got all those attacks and all those saves. But he's got no charging bonus; not much movement and he can't be teleported or transported by many spells. In fact your opponent doesn't just have to put 500 points into Gotrek, but likely points into other things to make him faster/more durable to make it to battle. That means your opponent is tangling a lot of things up in a single model and very small area of the battlefield. So let them - you can focus on the rest of their army; the rest of the battlefield; the objectives etc... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Zanzou said: Power creep not toxic at all for this game. People on this forum will always just say to run away and throw away chaff for free every turn and that somehow makes the gameplay balanced and fun. It‘s called tactics. But no one is stopping you from throwing your entire army against him, lose every single model and then rage about how broken he is 🤷🏼♂️. This character is designed to kill and tank, so why would you give Gotrek any target or waste any attacks on him? usually I would agree with you but this guy is on a 40mm base, can‘t fly, can‘t run and charge and has 4“ movement. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeen77 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Overread said: In other news the GW store now shows the mercenaries and monsters for Warcry Though interestingly the Chimera isn't yet shown, but many of the allies and monsters already are so you can get some idea of what you might want to grab at the weekend if you were after some allies. It's being re-released with a warcry box and accompanying cards, so not until it hits pre-order this weekend. Edited September 5, 2019 by skeen77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanzou Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 35 minutes ago, JackStreicher said: usually I would agree with you but this guy is on a 40mm base, can‘t fly, can‘t run and charge and has 4“ movement. True, he is not near as broken as FEC was this year. In AoS now though, there are plenty of ways to haul ass across the board. Perhaps a bigger issue is probably the fact that he can ally with literally any1 in grand alliance Order for some reason, no matter the point limit.. That does not seem like balance was the deciding factor in his design.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralZero Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Charge him with dire wolves, he'll lose a turn Charge him with 10 skelletons or whatever costs zero, he'll lose a turn Or just don't charge and screen him all the time with cheap things, his 4" move will be 1" move. He won't kill valuable things and score ZERO, NADA. I still don't think that such a char is good for the game: he doesn't really add something interesting to his army tbh= super slow glass canon heavy hammer without big synergies. I'd rather get a 300/400pts character with more strategies oportunities/rules/powers and a bit less efficient at combat or CC. Last but not least: for 500pts, I expect a major miniature, a center piece on the table, a majesty of monster not a tiny orange beard, more little that a horse. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Honestly I think he's strong but he's no worse than many others - in the end he's likely in a good spot for what is basically a heroic hero in the setting. He's more designed to be the kind of model you buy because you're a Gotrek Fan rather than because he's uber strong and going win every game. So I think his stats are great; they are capable but he's got some weaknesses in there too. Also he's not supposed to be a giant he's a dwarf - a real dwarf! So yeah he's supposed to be smaller than a horse 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepkin Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, GeneralZero said: Last but not least: for 500pts, I expect a major miniature, a center piece on the table, a majesty of monster not a tiny orange beard, more little that a horse. Implying there is a more majestic sight than a proud dwarf atop a pile of dead skaven? That's a grudgin' 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalandor Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 there is a thread to discuss Gotreks viability in a fun/competative list. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 5 hours ago, swarmofseals said: I very much doubt that this guy will be played by half of all Order players Maybe not, but in my experience (personal and in observing others), most of us overbuy with dreams of 'what if' floating around in our brains. For example, I own a model for each of the 5 bloodthirsters, just in case. I have a model for each Death Guard unit champion weapon configuration, just in case. It goes on. I buy more than I'll ever use, just in case. He'll be the same because of just in case, and that is made possible by the breaking of the basic balance of the allies rule. We even have people in this very forum who proudly (not a criticism) stick to the idea that they look for the most o.p. builds and combos, the ones that push the system's design limits, on purpose all in the name of competitive wins (thus my Hearthstone comparison). Look, I get that he has limits. I'm just saying the tantalizing option provided by his ability to operate outside of the law, so to speak, makes his rules feel very much more profit-over-fairplay (or, pay to win) than I've seen the new GW do in years. It sticks out to me as an unusual instance (which is good cuz it means they are doing the right thing almost all the time). Combine that with his resilience, killing potential, and marketing (have you read the "he kills gods" article?), and you get a confluence that disappoints me, personally. Anyway, I'm not here to wee in anyone's cornflakes. If you love him, use him! I am just saying he spoils things for me. It's just one guy's opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepkin Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Your explanation for why he ruins things for you doesnt make much sense though. Which is fine, we all have gut reactions. But that is why the pushback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Misfire Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 9 hours ago, Sleboda said: Also, it's silly that the better plan to kill him is to pepper him with skinks than to shoot him with a laser cannon. That's not even enjoyable from a lore standpoint. If he's gonna finally die the death he craves, make it epic, not a thousand pin pricks. Gotrek being easiest to take down with mass of damage 1 attacks from low rent troops makes perfect sense from a background perspective. This is a dwarf who when he's not able to solo Bloodthirsters is getting kicked around by town guards and tavern louts, and once got knocked unconscious (and developed amnesia) due to a mutant with a sling; heck, he even got stuck under a pile of Chaos Warrior corpses in Realmslayer. 😝 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svnvaldez Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 10 hours ago, Aelfric said: He's an unstoppable fighter with movement 4 and no ability to teleport - seems fair. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldarain Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Doesn't work. He is not able to be removed and placed. You can increase his movement speed but he stays boots on the ground. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) @Double Misfire Pffft. Don't let your in-lore references get in the way of my perfectly enjoyable rant. 😉 Edited September 6, 2019 by Sleboda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azmodan Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 7 hours ago, GeneralZero said: Charge him with dire wolves, he'll lose a turn Charge him with 10 skelletons or whatever costs zero, he'll lose a turn Or just don't charge and screen him all the time with cheap things, his 4" move will be 1" move. He won't kill valuable things and score ZERO, NADA. What of the player you know bring the rest of his army... or cast a spell and kill your screen. Or shot it and gets a double Turn. Tbh I read all about outmanover Your opponent throw screen at it etc but never saw someone pull it off on The tablet top. How about we play knife to The heart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azmodan Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 7 hours ago, GeneralZero said: Charge him with dire wolves, he'll lose a turn Charge him with 10 skelletons or whatever costs zero, he'll lose a turn Or just don't charge and screen him all the time with cheap things, his 4" move will be 1" move. He won't kill valuable things and score ZERO, NADA. What of the player you know bring the rest of his army... or cast a spell and kill your screen. Or shot it and gets a double Turn. Tbh I read all about outmanover Your opponent throw screen at it etc but never saw someone pull it off on The tablet top. How about we play knife to The heart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) Well I mean gotrek is strong, but 24wounds with a 4+ save and only taking damage 1, isn’t really overpowered for my taste. sure no hero, monster and some elite units will be able to kill him, but their are plenty of damage 1 dealing units that do tons of damage. so just throw some buffed witch aelves, Swordmasters, Plague monks, Stormvermins, Greatswords, full units of Skeletons, etc. At him and as long as your able to choose who’ll be going first, he will probably die-die Edited September 6, 2019 by Skreech Verminking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planar Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) It ll take him two -three turns to arrive anywhere meaningful on the battlefield All it takes is 2 units of 10 of your cheapest chaff to encircle him (not engage him) before that. One unit per turn and he is off the game for good. Poor little basterd, he is damned to roam aimlessly the battlefield killing everything he touches without achieving anything meaningful ever Edited September 6, 2019 by Planar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, Planar said: It ll take him two -three turns to arrive anywhere meaningful on the battlefield All it takes is 2 units of 10 of your cheapest chaff to encircle him (not engage him) before that. One unit per turn and he is off the game for good. Poor little basterd, he is damned to roam aimlessly the battlefield killing everything he touches without achieving anything meaningful ever The last sentence sounds exactly like what Gotrek is doing 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 +++ MOD HAT +++ Probably makes sense to keep all the discussion on the logistics of running Gotrek in a list to the thread on his rules please! 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alghero81 Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Is this Sunday the CoS Sunday? 48h to discover it... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 10 minutes ago, alghero81 said: Is this Sunday the CoS Sunday? 48h to discover it... We can but hope! OR Orruks or both! Whatever it is we hope to see one or both this month since October and November are dominated by new army releases (well the latter is Sisters of Battle, but that's basically a new army in size and in the fact its all plastic not metal) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maier666 Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 32 minutes ago, alghero81 said: Is this Sunday the CoS Sunday? 48h to discover it... I hope it my Anvilgard wants out but i'm waiting on the book to see what to paint next. Sunday seems good for me because in the german GW online shop the Bonesplitterz book is not available anymore. So i'm guessing both books drop, but Spells or terrain i'm not sure anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Maier666 said: I hope it my Anvilgard wants out but i'm waiting on the book to see what to paint next. Sunday seems good for me because in the german GW online shop the Bonesplitterz book is not available anymore. So i'm guessing both books drop, but Spells or terrain i'm not sure anymore. Same here! there‘s also a rumor that the Raven Guard and Iron Hands Codicies and Upgrade Sprues are NOT coming next Week since there‘s an AoS Release. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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