The Rumour Thread

[Grimrock]

43 minutes ago, Alfcam said:

There's no mention of allegiance abilities for Grand Alliances in the Contents page of either the Core Book or the Generals Handbook, am I wrong in assuming they're squatted and you can't play them anymore? 

Not 100% sure, but the rules say you have to pick a faction for your army. A faction is now defined by a battletome instead of a keyword, so unless we get tomes for grand alliances or an FAQ/update somewhere that says a faction is a battletome or anything with a given keyword then I'd say grand alliances are dead. Also has strange potential consequences for chaos armies that were using slaves to darkness models with different marks of chaos. Since they're not in the battletome that defines the faction an argument could be made that they can't be taken anymore.

[sorokyl]

4 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

Not 100% sure, but the rules say you have to pick a faction for your army. A faction is now defined by a battletome instead of a keyword, so unless we get tomes for grand alliances or an FAQ/update somewhere that says a faction is a battletome or anything with a given keyword then I'd say grand alliances are dead. Also has strange potential consequences for chaos armies that were using slaves to darkness models with different marks of chaos. Since they're not in the battletome that defines the faction an argument could be made that they can't be taken anymore.

You need to pick "factions" not singular "faction".  You can pick multiple factions. 25.8 talks about allies. 27 says if you choose from a single faction, you can use allegiance abilities (can still do 1 in 4 units as allies). 

I agree that the concept of "Grand Alliances" seems dead except for grouping things on the webstore.  

[KriticalKhan]

4 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

You need to pick "factions" not singular "faction".  You can pick multiple factions. 25.8 talks about allies. 27 says if you choose from a single faction, you can use allegiance abilities (can still do 1 in 4 units as allies). 

I agree that the concept of "Grand Alliances" seems dead except for grouping things on the webstore.  

So does that mean Kragnos can't be legally taken in any army? His warscroll says he can be taken in a "DESTRUCTION" army, but if "Destruction" doesn't exist as an army and keywords don't determine what units can be taken, then how does he fit? Surely he was written with 3e in mind? I'm not trying to challenge anyone's points, I'm just confused.

[EnumaEilish]

12 minutes ago, KriticalKhan said:

So does that mean Kragnos can't be legally taken in any army? His warscroll says he can be taken in a "DESTRUCTION" army, but if "Destruction" doesn't exist as an army and keywords don't determine what units can be taken, then how does he fit? Surely he was written with 3e in mind? I'm not trying to challenge anyone's points, I'm just confused.

Maybe they’ve added him to all the destruction army rosters in the GHB.

[Scurvydog]

1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said:

The new units we've already seen aren't replacing anything, no reason to think the other reinforcements will either... until we see both the new reinforcements and the 3.0 tome. I get GW often puts up units/boxes in articles to sell off old stock, but the Vindictors being the same height as Liberators seems like a pretty good sign nothing is squatted yet.

On the contrary the new stuff steps right in the toes of what is already there. There are already 3 variants of paladins, the new ones are simply improved paladins, they are not fitting a different role at all. 

Same for vindictors, they are clearly the new and improved liberators. The poor libs might still just be used if they are a bit cheaper as is their lot in life it seems, but they only differentiate themselves by just being the worst version of the basically the same thing. 

No this is clearly warrior chamber 2.0, it might not be a bad thing, but I doubt we will see any new stormcast again in the old style, they are just waiting to be replaced entirely down the line.

[KingBrodd]

3 hours ago, Shearl said:

@KingBrodd Are you ready for the royal rumble between the new Stormcast drakes and whatever monsters the Kruelboys have in their swamp?

I cannot wait to see what monsters are lurking in the swamps of the Kruelboyz. I'm curious if the Sludgeraker or this flying monster will be a centrepiece!!

3 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Kruelboys for S5 of Underworlds perhaps?

Yeah I would say Kruelboyz will be representing Destruction in the next Season of Underworlds.

2 hours ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

I will stand by your side @KingBrodd! Necrotect! AWAKEN THE SPHINX!!! All jokes aside I do want to know what big bad centerpiece the Kruleboyz are getting(that’s not Kragnos). I hope it’s a giant alligator but we all know where hope leads.

Maaaaate a giant alligator would be awesome or even better a giant alligator snapping turtle!!

[sorokyl]

9 minutes ago, KriticalKhan said:

So does that mean Kragnos can't be legally taken in any army? His warscroll says he can be taken in a "DESTRUCTION" army, but if "Destruction" doesn't exist as an army and keywords don't determine what units can be taken, then how does he fit? Surely he was written with 3e in mind? I'm not trying to challenge anyone's points, I'm just confused.

Warscrolls trump core rules. The models still have the key word for their grand alliance. Kragnos still can be taken in any army where the faction is  "destruction"    

In AoS 2.0, you pick an Allegiance for your army. It could be a Grand Alliance or a Faction.  
In AoS 3.0, the term "Grand Alliance" is not used. Your army does not have an "Allegiance", it just must have "Factions",  You must choose a single faction (plus allies) to use Allegiance abilities.   Probably, the GHB will say that the "Factions" must be allies or from the same Grand Alliance or something. But, i don't suspect there will be "Grand Alliance" allegiance abilities anymore, since there's nothing in the core rules to define a Grand Alliance army. 

[Klamm]

I assume Kragnos will eventually lead a new destruction faction that matches his aesthetic (not necessarily Drogrukh , but matching him as the OBR match Nagash).

Usually the big centrepiece 'god character' comes out along with the rest of the faction (Teclis, Morathi, Alarielle) but not always. Archaon kind of had a barebones everchosen mini-faction in AoS 1.0, but it eventually got consolidated under a unified Slaves to Darkness battletome. It wasn't until Bonereapers that Nagash was slotted into an army that reflected his theme and aesthetic.

From what we've seen of the Kruelboyz, they don't really riff much on Kragnos' design (despite the Murknob). Since Destruction seems to be getting the GA Death treatment of last edition, I imagine that means in 2022/23 we get a new faction that is to Kragnos what OBR was to Nagash. Otherwise he'll be the first big god character who is a battletome orphan. I guess that's appropriate for his story, but I'd still bet against it being permanent. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Klamm

[MitGas]

56 minutes ago, Acrozatarim said:

Oh, and, while I'm being annoyed: they say "Beware of miscasts!"

But you can't beware of miscasts. There's nothing you can do to avoid miscasts apart from... not cast spells. On all those characters whose cost is predicated on the idea that they will, in fact, be casting spells.

It's just a random smack to the chops that occasionally crops up and you just have to suck it down and carry on. There's no new layer of strategy or tactics to it.

"ZoMG have u not reliazed it, tzyauntch got fat dice!!1 Ze mighty minions of the god of magicks do ze magix liek nooneelse (but teclis still reps ur army unless u use scraymers)" 

I'm sorry but those insights felt like from a new and very young fan (who happens to have a serious spelling problem in my fantasy). Oh and don't forget the pro tip number 1: enlightened, horrors and fatemaster are good. TY!

That said, I'm also happy Changehost is out. I haven't used it a single time but I fully understand why everyone hated it.
I feel like one day we'll get more mortal minis and then a serious upgrade rule-wise will come along where Tzeentch will be more than flamers and horrors. 

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

Does anyone have info on the WD article featuring the creature your own tyrant or gargant from Excelsis? Is it matched play or more anvil stuff? Do articles like these even carry into the new edition this close? Haha

[Starfyre]

18 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

On the contrary the new stuff steps right in the toes of what is already there. There are already 3 variants of paladins, the new ones are simply improved paladins, they are not fitting a different role at all. 

Same for vindictors, they are clearly the new and improved liberators. The poor libs might still just be used if they are a bit cheaper as is their lot in life it seems, but they only differentiate themselves by just being the worst version of the basically the same thing. 

No this is clearly warrior chamber 2.0, it might not be a bad thing, but I doubt we will see any new stormcast again in the old style, they are just waiting to be replaced entirely down the line.

We don't know what Liberators or other Paladins will do in the new book so IMHO it's too early to say that the new models are better. 

Given how expensive tooling and design is, I cannot imagine any of the older Stormcast line is going anywhere for a long long time. There is no reason to drop them. GW can just keep churning out new armour types, like they do space marines, and make them all available to purchase.

 

15 minutes ago, Klamm said:

I assume Kragnos will eventually lead a new destruction faction that matches his aesthetic (not necessarily Drogrukh , but matching him as the OBR match Nagash).

Usually the big centrepiece 'god character' comes out along with the rest of the faction (Teclis, Morathi, Alarielle) but not always. Archaon kind of had a barebones everchosen mini-faction in AoS 1.0, but it eventually got consolidated under a unified Slaves to Darkness battletome. It wasn't until Bonereapers that Nagash was slotted into an army that reflected his theme and aesthetic.

From what we've seen of the Kruelboyz, they don't really riff much on Kragnos' design (despite the Murknob). Since Destruction seems to be getting the GA Death treatment of last edition, I imagine that means in 2022/23 we get a new faction that is to Kragnos what OBR was to Nagash. Otherwise he'll be the first big god character who is a battletome orphan. I guess that's appropriate for his story, but I'd still bet against it being permanent. 

I don't think Kragnos will get an associated faction. One of the things I liked about Broken Realms Kragnos is that he's not a leader, he's very much a very powerful lone wolf the Orruks basically decided to hang out with as they had a common goal. For all the talk of him looking like a beastman, I think that's why he's so distinctly different looking from the rest of the destructions factions - he's an embodiment of destruction, not a leader in the traditional sense. He'll just turn up where the fighting is thickest (or where a frogman tells him 'here be dragons'.)

[Enoby]

27 minutes ago, MitGas said:

"ZoMG have u not reliazed it, tzyauntch got fat dice!!1 Ze mighty minions of the god of magicks do ze magix liek nooneelse (but teclis still reps ur army unless u use scraymers)" 

I'm sorry but those insights felt like from a new and very young fan (who happens to have a serious spelling problem in my fantasy). Oh and don't forget the pro tip number 1: enlightened, horrors and fatemaster are good. TY!

That said, I'm also happy Changehost is out. I haven't used it a single time but I fully understand why everyone hated it.
I feel like one day we'll get more mortal minis and then a serious upgrade rule-wise will come along where Tzeentch will be more than flamers and horrors. 

Unfortunately I think a lot of these roundups have been a bit lackluster.

Mind, I don't think it's because the writers are bad, but rather they were probably given like a 200 word maximum and it's very hard to get anything in that.

For example, the Slaanesh one was written by one of the best players in the world, but they gave some pretty basic insight that most decent players could have written. I imagine it was down to heavy constraints. 

How would people feel about a thread for people to talk about how their armies are affected in AoS 3 as a whole? The new rules discussion thread is great, but there's a lot to discuss and I don't know if people would find it helpful to have all army specifics in one place, both for learning their own faction and seeing what others have in store.

[MitGas]

18 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Unfortunately I think a lot of these roundups have been a bit lackluster.

Mind, I don't think it's because the writers are bad, but rather they were probably given like a 200 word maximum and it's very hard to get anything in that.

For example, the Slaanesh one was written by one of the best players in the world, but they gave some pretty basic insight that most decent players could have written. I imagine it was down to heavy constraints. 

How would people feel about a thread for people to talk about how their armies are affected in AoS 3 as a whole? The new rules discussion thread is great, but there's a lot to discuss and I don't know if people would find it helpful to have all army specifics in one place, both for learning their own faction and seeing what others have in store.

That‘s a lovely idea indeed. I‘m sure they weren‘t allowed to weite as much as they would‘ve liked (and could, after all they‘re all way better at the game than I‘ll ever be) but so far the articles feel a bit too shallow. I‘d love to see others from here share how they think 3.0 will affect their army, both good and bad…! 👁‍🗨

[JackStreicher]

16 minutes ago, MitGas said:

I‘d love to see others from here share how they think 3.0 will affect their army, both good and bad…! 👁‍🗨

Open a new thread for it!

Edited June 15, 2021 by JackStreicher

[sandlemad]

1 hour ago, Klamm said:

From what we've seen of the Kruelboyz, they don't really riff much on Kragnos' design (despite the Murknob).

As an aside, one nice feature I've seen in the Kruleboyz background in the Dominion booklets is the emphasis that they don't really worship Kragnos or even have a particular connection to him above and beyond other greenskins.

They put him on their shields sometimes because he's big and scary, and use his image for their banners as a form of sympathetic magic devised by their swamp-shamans, which is seemingly effective because those banners echo with Kragnos's roars and drive off magic. But when it comes to actual belief, cultural links and tying them together, well, it's no more than anyone else in Destruction really, just that they decided to surge out of their fens now that Kragnos is kicking off.

From the Kruleboyz overview:

Quote

In truth, few of these greenskins actually worship the End of Empires, though his raw strength ensure he has his committed zealots. Rather, they see paying homage to Kragnos as a form of crude insurance.

Veneration as a classically Morkish scheme not to be crushed by someone bigger than you.

It's still most likely a case of the writers having to hurriedly fit together a new faction of sneaky swamp-dwelling greenskin creeps with a separate centrepiece plastic kit plains centaur deity with his own unique aesthetic, but it's a nice touch. More or less what I'd hoped they'd do.

Edited June 15, 2021 by sandlemad

[JackStreicher]

3 hours ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

Necrotect! AWAKEN THE SPHINX!!!

As you command!

“Wollollo“

 

 

[SunStorm]

15 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

As an aside, one nice feature I've seen in the Kruleboyz background in the Dominion booklets is the emphasis that they don't really worship Kragnos or even have a particular connection to him above and beyond other greenskins.

They put him on their shields sometimes because he's big and scary, and use his image for their banners as a form of sympathetic magic devised by their swamp-shamans, which is seemingly effective because those banners echo with Kragnos's roars and drive off magic. But when it comes to actual belief, cultural links and tying them together, well, it's no more than anyone else in Destruction really, just that they decided to surge out of their fens now that Kragnos is kicking off.

From the Kruleboyz overview:

Veneration as a classically Morkish scheme not to be crushed by someone bigger than you.

It's still most likely a case of the writers having to hurriedly fit together a new faction of sneaky swamp-dwelling greenskin creeps with a separate centrepiece plastic kit plains centaur deity with his own unique aesthetic, but it's a nice touch. More or less what I'd hoped they'd do.

Kragnos does seem more Gorkish than Morkish from what we saw of him in BR: Kragnos. 

I'm hoping that they get their own big named leader on a monster along the lines of Gordrakk.

[Twisted Firaun]

1 hour ago, KingBrodd said:

Maaaaate a giant alligator would be awesome or even better a giant alligator snapping turtle!!

If we get the latter I will name it after one of the Ninja Turtles. 

[KingBrodd]

25 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

As an aside, one nice feature I've seen in the Kruleboyz background in the Dominion booklets is the emphasis that they don't really worship Kragnos or even have a particular connection to him above and beyond other greenskins.

They put him on their shields sometimes because he's big and scary, and use his image for their banners as a form of sympathetic magic devised by their swamp-shamans, which is seemingly effective because those banners echo with Kragnos's roars and drive off magic. But when it comes to actual belief, cultural links and tying them together, well, it's no more than anyone else in Destruction really, just that they decided to surge out of their fens now that Kragnos is kicking off.

From the Kruleboyz overview:

Veneration as a classically Morkish scheme not to be crushed by someone bigger than you.

It's still most likely a case of the writers having to hurriedly fit together a new faction of sneaky swamp-dwelling greenskin creeps with a separate centrepiece plastic kit plains centaur deity with his own unique aesthetic, but it's a nice touch. More or less what I'd hoped they'd do.

I'm really glad this is the case, nothing really screams Kragnos worshippers that we've seen so far. 

Using him to their advantage is really Morky as well.

6 minutes ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

If we get the latter I will name it after one of the Ninja Turtles. 

Slash is a Mutated Snapper!!

[MitGas]

26 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Open a new thread for it!

It was Enoby's idea! 😇

[Twisted Firaun]

24 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

I'm really glad this is the case, nothing really screams Kragnos worshippers that we've seen so far. 

Using him to their advantage is really Morky as well.

Slash is a Mutated Snapper!!

Don’t forget Tokka!

[Twisted Firaun]

Hey, just checking if it is acceptable to post Total War: Warhammer stuff here? I know it does not directly tie into AOS, but it does into Old World. Either way the Kislev Roster has been revealed and I will be painting the future models Chicago Bears colors!

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-3-kislev-roster-reveal/

[novakai]

2 hours ago, Klamm said:

I assume Kragnos will eventually lead a new destruction faction that matches his aesthetic (not necessarily Drogrukh , but matching him as the OBR match Nagash).

Usually the big centrepiece 'god character' comes out along with the rest of the faction (Teclis, Morathi, Alarielle) but not always. Archaon kind of had a barebones everchosen mini-faction in AoS 1.0, but it eventually got consolidated under a unified Slaves to Darkness battletome. It wasn't until Bonereapers that Nagash was slotted into an army that reflected his theme and aesthetic.

From what we've seen of the Kruelboyz, they don't really riff much on Kragnos' design (despite the Murknob). Since Destruction seems to be getting the GA Death treatment of last edition, I imagine that means in 2022/23 we get a new faction that is to Kragnos what OBR was to Nagash. Otherwise he'll be the first big god character who is a battletome orphan. I guess that's appropriate for his story, but I'd still bet against it being permanent. 

my Big Brain wild theory say that when Kroak/ Seraphon get their Draconith Dinosaurs is arounds the same time Kragnos unleash his army (whatever it maybe) into the realm and they are going to have a showdown (since there an underlining narrative between the two that was establish in BR: Kragnos)

[Televiper11]

Looks like bye-bye Balewind Vortex 

[Noserenda]

2 hours ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

Does anyone have info on the WD article featuring the creature your own tyrant or gargant from Excelsis? Is it matched play or more anvil stuff? Do articles like these even carry into the new edition this close? Haha

Ive glanced through it, looks exactly the same as the other recent ones.

But Giants cant ride a beasty (booooooo!)