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Greyshadow

So, what do we think of the new Contrast paints?

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I really hope we can get a high quality preview (ideally in the Citadel paint app) showing how each one looks. 

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For me the big question is whether it will have the same effect going through an airbrush. If it will it really is a total game changer for my moneu in terms of clearing backlogs. I just wish I hadn't primed so many minis black!

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I think it definitely got potential becoming a gamechanger for the average painter (provided it does what they say it does).

First results and impressions posted looks promising. If it usefull the  advanced painter I don't know, but for me personally I see an opportunity to finaly make some progress with the ever lasting backlog and maybe even finish my first complete army ever (after collecting for over 35 years , sigh). I probably won't use it for the centerpieces, but for the hordes and battleline units, I definitley going to try.

Regardless whether you find it usefull, or good enough quality to your standards, one got the admire the effort to make something completely new, and manage to make paints like this.

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4 hours ago, Soolong said:

Thanks for the wright up, this is the information I wanted to know. So the models will need to be varnished? They have been very quite about that then, makes me wonder how well other paints will adhere to the new contrast paints if you can not handle the miniatures. I hate the look of varnished models so I have gone from buying the whole range to just getting a few.

My pleasure! Yes, I found it all very interesting, so tried to cram as much info in as possible. I too struggle with all-over varnishes (still stung after some bad frosting on an Emperor's Champion...) and am painting a lot of metallics these days (Kharadron Overlords), for which I don't love a matte finish. Who knows, maybe the new varnish will change my mind. 

As I mentioned in my post, I do think these paints will give me the will to paint my Battle for Skull Pass Gobbos - which will be one less shelf of grey!

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Oh, I am so glad I decided to do my basing before my models.

That fleshtone one will save my sanity, and I can imagine we'll also be seeing more DoK armies around.

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It looks like this could be a time saver for people who are looking for a basic paintjob, which is something I do believe there is a demand for. 

I don't believe, however, that this is suitable for advanced paintjobs. You will lose the control that two seperate steps of basecoating and washing provide and the difference does show on the previewed miniatures. I'd say this is a godsend for beginners and not very interesting for intermediate or advanced painters, but I'm curious to see what people will make of this.

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Premised the intermediate painter wants to have fully control of every painting step of his 150 Clanrats.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/11/2019 at 4:41 PM, Overread said:

It's more likely that the easier higher level of achievement that the paint allows one to reach will result in more people being more confident to actually paint and thus develop skills. I know many get fearful when it comes to paint because whilst you "can" strip models its a pain in the neck, never cleans them perfectly and isn't ideal. Plus it takes ages.
So yeah many end up not painting or not painting much. A paint that allows people to get their army ready to go that fast - yeah I can see it encouraging them to keep painting, to paint more and get more models on the table but also improve hteir skills. 

I feel as though the GW layer approach has actually stunted my and many painters techniques by a considerable degree.

From my perspective the focus on painting by numbers each component, edge highlights etc suggested that was where the craft lay. Whereas what I have learned from excellent mini painters, Golden Demon winners etc is that the principles between painting a figure in the GW style and painting something more unique and standout is far more related to your brush technique, materials, what you choose to emphasise etc. The best painters I know can paint something in 10 minutes and two colours  and it will frequently look better than something someone else produced in 5 hours with 20 colours, shades etc. Because they’re actually painting, as an artist might, not covering a model in swatches.

My own painting has massively improved as a result of trying to experiment away from the base shade layer approach. Fundamentally the craft in painting lies in how you use your brush and there is a considerable level of depth in that which GW never even begins to teach. I don’t want to say that any approach to a hobby is wrong, but there are certain ways of loading or holding your brush or applying it which is far more likely to obscure detail or leave tide marks or a rougher texture what have you. Not only do most people want to avoid these,  but you can actually use them to your advantage too! It’s Like any craft involving fine motor skills, without having a firm grounding in these you will never be realising your full potential. And it frustrates me that GW don’t ever explain this. 

Im all in favour of the Contrast Paints as a gaming aid  and in many ways it sounds as though they are the epitome of the GW Paint and Play approach. But I fully expect them to further trap people in a house style convention and focus more on painting helmets red, belts brown etc, one by one piece by piece etc. I think they will revolutionise the degree to which people can play with painted mini’s; but I think they will do little if anything to assist people wanting to invest in painting.

 

Edited by Nos
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I’m a little unsure. Is it designed to be a perfect coat like the gold on a Stormcast or Blue on Ultramarines, and then you fix everything else the old fashioned way? Or is it like a crayon for a coloring book, and you can do the whole thing?

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45 minutes ago, Nos said:

I feel as though the GW layer approach has actually stunted my and many painters techniques by a considerable degree.

Base shade layer is SUPER easy for some one learning, because it doesn't require a lot of painting and artistic know how. It also lend itself to the highly detail nature of the models.

However, as you say it's SUPER slow, time consuming, and it feels and looks terrible until the model is completely finish. All of which really slow down hobbist. 

I think these new contrast paints will go VERY far. For one it makes every color approachable even yell is easier if you can start with a yellow contrast. More over a 2nd shade or a dry brush will see your model most of the way to done, and atleast done enough for table top. 

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Honestly could be great for getting through a lot of chafe, if you have a ton of models (clan rats, skinks etc.) with the requisite surface texture for this to work, it could be a great way to get them looking good quick. Once you have your mooks painted up nice and quick you can focus on those centerpiece minis! 

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On 5/11/2019 at 11:18 AM, Murder Pancake said:

others purchase the contrast paint and are comfortable with it as a once and done solution, does it really matter?

Certainly. I acknowledged the benefits. My negative was focused on actually feeling bad for folks who may miss out on a level of joy.

Then again, you can't miss what you've never had, so it's all good! 🙂

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Posted (edited)

In case anyone else was looking, I found a full colour list:

  1. Apothecary White
  2. Black Templar
  3. Space Wolves Grey
  4. Gryph-Charger Grey
  5. Basilicanum Grey
  6. Volupus Pink
  7. Blood Angels Red
  8. Flesh Tearers Red
  9. Magos Purple
  10. ShyishPurple
  11. Aethermatic Blue
  12. Leviadon Blue
  13. Ultramarines Blue
  14. Talassar Blue
  15. Terradon Turquoise
  16. Akhelian Green
  17. Dark Angels Green
  18. Militarum Green
  19. Iyanden Yellow
  20. Nazdreg Yellow
  21. Gryph-hound Orange
  22. Snakebite Leather
  23. Cygor Brown
  24. Guilliman Flesh
  25. Fyreslayer Flesh
  26. Darkoath Flesh
  27. Plaguebearer Flesh
  28. Ork Flesh
  29. Skeleton Horde
  30. Aggaros Dunes
  31. Creed Camo
  32. Gore-grunta Fur
  33. Wyldwood
  34. Warp Lightning

Games-Workshop-Citadel-Contrast-Paint-Colour-List.jpg

Edited by Retro
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2 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Certainly. I acknowledged the benefits. My negative was focused on actually feeling bad for folks who may miss out on a level of joy.

Then again, you can't miss what you've never had, so it's all good! 🙂

I can certaintly see new generals of painters coming in on contrast paints and no growing from there because they are satisfide with that. 

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Posted (edited)

I think this is great. 
It's not going to make my painting better, and it's not going to make me win a Golden Demon but that's not what it's supposed to do. 

Everyone here is going on about whether or not it's good for painting skills or if it teaches bad habits. Who care? 
It's not designed to make you paint better. It's designed to make you paint quicker. 

As much as we all want everyone to paint top quality standard, that's not really realistic. Not everyone wants to paint much, not everyone wants to constantly get better and put in the huge amount of time required to improve. 
But no one likes playing against grey plastic. And I hate playing against models that are spray painted and then dunked or slapped around with a paint roller. That actually looks worse than grey plastic. 
So anything that helps those people get to a basic tabletop standard is an amazing tool. 

Very very few people in the world (if any) are going to sit down and paint 150 clan rats to a Golden Demon standard. ****** that.  
If this stuff means I can do a zenithal airbrush hightlight and then slap on 3-4 colors of contrast paint and have 150 finished clan rats, then I'm 100% on board. 
I'll save the high quality detail work for the center piece models, Verminlords, characters, vehicles etc. 

I've used a similar method to these contrast paints with White undercoat and a single layer of fleshshade. It works amazingly (as long as you have the right canvas). I did it on Tzeentch Acolytes. Turned out fantastic except for where the white spray undercoat went bad. 
But the method/theory is sound. 

I think it will work best on organic surfaces, faces, skin, bones, maybe cloth. I think it might work a bit worse on armor panels and big flat surfaces. 
But I'm certainly keen to give it a go.  

 

Edited by Inquisitorsz
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2 hours ago, Inquisitorsz said:

 I think it might work a bit worse on armor panels and big flat surfaces. 

That sounds like a bad idea then for all the space marine/sce players! It's all armor!

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44 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

That sounds like a bad idea then for all the space marine/sce players! It's all armor!

Take that with a grain of salt.... that's just from experience with using washes on armor, and some quick rough pics online from the the reveal event. 
If you can use the paint without it pooling as much as some of the photos show, it's going to be awesome. If it still pools a lot then it's only going to be good in some applications. 
We'll have to see. In any case I'm keen to get my hands on it. 

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I've just had a realization about these paints that may not entirely be what GW us going for, but then again it will sell me the range so it's not all bad for them.

I think they will be ideal for the CMON style miniature board games like Zombicide.

I've painted my entire set of black plague zombies already, and dozens of the heroes as well, but I still have the entire Green Horde set to do, as well as Massive Darkness. Models in these games take a lot of abuse, have lots of textures, and are so plentiful that it always pains me to spend time on them when I have proper Warhammer models to paint.

These new paints may be a perfect way to get these sorts of games painted up.

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13 hours ago, Nos said:

ut I think they will do little if anything to assist people wanting to invest in painting.

Fully agree. But this👆 is not the group it’s aimed at looking at the marketing so far. 

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I don't think the new painting system will stop people from trying to improve. The same people that stop at a base coat and a wash at the moment, will stop at a contrast base coat and a contrast layer if this system proves to be what GW are advertising it as and vice versa. 

At first blush I can't see myself using these paints, as I have moved away from using washes in general, as I don't like the 'pooling in the recesses' technique, which these build on. I'll be interested to see what cleverer folks than I can come up with though and it looks a good first step.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Retro said:

In case anyone else was looking, I found a full colour list:

Games-Workshop-Citadel-Contrast-Paint-Colour-List.jpg

Thank you for this. I love that it's the old school names... Space Wolves Grey, Snakebite Leather, Ultramarines Blue to name a few.

I've said this on a few places but more choice is definitely a good thing. And also, speeding up elements of the paint job doesn't mean that you can't produce outstanding results by using these things wisely. Hexwraith, for example, is brilliant for using for Warp fire, green glow etc because of its properties - thin, high pigment etc. Using regular paints, washes etc then supplements them. I've heard a few people say they look fantastic over metallics too.

I've had the joy of seeing people like Darren Latham's Silver Skulls in the flesh. They're literally sprayed silver, washed (carefully) and then all the hard work goes on the eyes, shoulder pads and other details to help it stand out. They're beautiful, but clean and simple paint jobs.  Then when you add in the characters and the whole army looks phenomenal. Or, Tyler Mengel's awesome Nighthaunt. Use of Nihilakh Oxide. These could be used similarly - get the big areas done quick, but devote time to details. I'm keen to see how these could be applied to flesh personally. 

These are great. Use as intended for very quick army jobs. Use in your arsenal however you wish if you stick to more traditional methods. 

 

Edited by syph0n
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Back from Warhammer Fest and have managed to unpack and sort myself out.  I was very intrigued by what the new paint was going to be and my original guess of base colours in can's and a dip system wasn't actually 100% off the mark!

I attended the seminar talking about this too and it was super interesting (done by the chap who actually worked on developing these paints).  The range was originally designed to replicate the base colour + shade of certain common citadel paint schemes - so the Ultramarines Blue Contrast paint will give a very similar effect to Macragge Blue + Drakenhoft Nightshade.  The "highlight" effect was actually an added bonus!

Despite it being advertised as "slap it on and watch the magic", you still need to control what you're doing.  Poor brush control and letting it pool will make a model look just as bad as if you'd done the same with any paint!  This is why the examples in the cabinet were a mixed baggage because somebody with good brush control and managing where the paint went gets a superior result to somebody who's flopped it everywhere.  It's also worth noting that using this on large flat areas will have the same issues as washing a large flat area - they're designed to be used on miniatures with lots of details and texture.

The paint range uses an entirely different base medium which appears to have a special mix of flow aid and retarder in (amongst other things).  It's designed to go on "thick" but dry thin and as has been mentioned already does require a varnish to protect it else it risks being rubbed off during handling.  A new varnish has been developed that should replicate the satin finish of the range and be more reliable than the current varnish (very much a case of each version of the varnish being better than the last).

The new base medium is very fragile and you will lose the unique "Contrast" properties if you add water or something using a different base (e.g. Lahmian or a regular Citadel Colour paint).  However the Contrast range are basically a high transparency paint so adding it to other paints or thinning it down with other mediums will turn it into glazes and similar.  This is certainly where the 'Eavy Metal have been experimenting with it.  It also acts very similar to the old "Tint" range if you add it to a metallic - so adding Blood Angels Red to Stormhost Silver will give you a red metallic.

White undercoat is very tricky to create as there is only one pigment that can be used as a base (Titanium - well, technically there are two, but using Lead pigment is frowned upon).  This means that in order to develop a white undercoat the way to make it more reliable is to add other pigments to it - the two new colours are (brown) White and (grey) White - they will also have colour matched Base pots released at the same time.  The new Contrast paints will work over any undercoat, however for the intended effect you want to use a lighter colour (over black just look weird).  I can see lots of people achieving some very clever effects over metallic undercoats.

Size wise the new pots are a little bigger than the regular paint's (but smaller than Shade paints).  The pot of Contrast Medium is the same size as a Shade paint (let's hope we also get Lahmian in that size too!)

I did the following in the last five minutes of the event - trying to cram every colour I could get my hands on (they only had 10 available to play with).  I was actually very surprised with how far the paint went, so don't feel you're going to need to purchase gallons of the stuff to paint an army.  I took very little care over this and with a bit of highlighting wouldn't have an issue playing with or against an army done like this (though using all these colours may give you a migraine or nightmares).  Even where the paint has pooled you've not actually lost much detail.

20190513_112715.jpg.c85fa43fc62228ca9edcbcf79ffde44c.jpg

20190513_112719.jpg.37fbfc2880c48ba2b829cac17700eb39.jpg

Just to address a few comments

On 5/11/2019 at 4:36 PM, The World Tree said:

The new primer is basically zenithal.

It's not, they're just new undercoats with more brown/grey in than Corax white.  Applying a zenithal highlight with a white should actually improve the effect you get with the Contrast paints however.

On 5/11/2019 at 7:17 PM, Zanzou said:

100% marketing.  They saw a big opening in the market: between the number of players who perpetually put off ever painting the factions they buy,  and those who buy paint from competitors.  This was the in they saw, but it seems the actual effect of the paint looks negligible.

Far too soon to see if this is actually the case.  As somebody who does some competitive painting I feel they will become extra tool in our already impressive repertoire.  I actually can't wait to start experimenting with using them in different ways and seeing what other people do.

On 5/11/2019 at 10:31 PM, dekay said:

It looks more or less like what can be achieved with 2-3 consecutive washes, sacrificing extra control for reduced amount of work. I see some use for it and probably 40k Tyranid players will rejoice as it seems almost custom made for them. ; )

Sort of.  A wash doesn't have the vibrancy of colour that the new paints have.  I do think there is going to be a learning curve on improving control - when the original washes came out we had exactly the same issues with lack of control, people have now learned how to apply the right amount of wash in the right place which I expect will be the same for these paints.  From a practical aspect they're certainly going to help people paint up those massive hordes.

On 5/11/2019 at 10:35 PM, Greyshadow said:

I assumed the new primer was part of the chemistry. Like perhaps slightly hydrophilic to draw the paint away from the edges? Maybe it is just a nice tone for the contrast colours to sit upon?

I thought the same too, but the new undercoats are basically just slightly different shade whites.  They should be a lot more reliable too - part of the testing of the new sprays they had a kettle permanently boiling to increase the humidity of their spray booth.

On 5/11/2019 at 10:56 PM, Blightzkrieg said:

So if I'm understanding correctly, the only step this new paint skips is washing right? Because that's not really why my painting is super super super slow. Or is basecoating with contrast paints significantly faster as well? That would really help.

It should skip both the basecoating and washing steps - the piece above was quite genuinely painted in about five minutes using a medium wash brush!

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Thanks for the write-up RuneBrush. Nice to see some good photos that didn’t come out of the studio. Particularly impressed with the yellow on the face and looking forward to trying some flesh tones.

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25 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

Review

Great post, and congrats on the best paint job I saw from the Contrast demo lol!

I agree with pretty much everything you said. The guy at the stand was telling me not to use the palette and to just load up as much as I could on the brush and just slap it on. It became clear very quickly that doing so would only get the same results as it does with normal washes or paints. I also attempted to paint a large flat surface with one of the colours, namely the shield of one of the Stormcasts... suffice to say a single coat looked absolutely awful.

I'm really excited for the range though, and as I heard someone at the event say... it's actually putting a lot of projects on hold for me because I don't want to paint quite a lot of things now because I want to use this stuff! Off the top of my head, things I will use it for...

Squig skin (Looncurse)
Grot skin (Looncurse)
Sylvaneth bark
Human flesh
Freeguild uniforms (all those folds and things)
Tzaangor flesh (I'm painting Silver Tower models)

The only thing I have on at the moment that I don't really see a good use for it with is my Kharadron Overlords warband, due to the large amount of metallics on the model.

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Yeah, I’ve got some Arrowboys, Savage Orruks and Stabbas that could be done in a flash with this. Can’t wait. 

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