AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[AresX8]

After what felt like an eternity away from this thread and painting in general due to a crazy costume being made, I'm back at it with a finished unit of Wrathmongers!

 

[MOMUS]

@fwlr fantastic painting! The wings are really great

[PivotalCar]

I just acquired a Mighty Lord of Khorne. So far I've gathered that he isn't very good due to his slow movement and meh command ability. But I really like his reality splitting axe, I just love the thought of having nagash sent into the realm of chaos never to come back. Is this guy/ khorgus khul really unplayable and could a list be built around them?

[Sneeto]

3 hours ago, PivotalCar said:

I just acquired a Mighty Lord of Khorne. So far I've gathered that he isn't very good due to his slow movement and meh command ability. But I really like his reality splitting axe, I just love the thought of having nagash sent into the realm of chaos never to come back. Is this guy/ khorgus khul really unplayable and could a list be built around them?

I wouldn’t build around mighty lord but you can include him in many lists. He’s not awful, he’s just very swingy as in does a lot or nothing. Khorgos is better, definitely his 8 inch pile in is deadly and can mess with a lot of plans. Don’t be afraid to add either to the lists, I wish more battalions required a mighty lord.

[AresX8]

10 hours ago, PivotalCar said:

I just acquired a Mighty Lord of Khorne. So far I've gathered that he isn't very good due to his slow movement and meh command ability. But I really like his reality splitting axe, I just love the thought of having nagash sent into the realm of chaos never to come back. Is this guy/ khorgus khul really unplayable and could a list be built around them?

I view him in a completely different light:

He's a final wave option that can be turned into a Bloodthirster's worth of damage output when designed correctly. He can easily get to +2 attacks (Bloodsecrator and Wrathmongers), or even +3 (add Aspiring Deathbringer). Giving him Ghyrstrike is the biggest damage increase you can give him outside of the obvious increasing the amount of attacks he has. I ran the numbers and from what I've seen, the +1/+1 shift is apparently bigger than giving him something like Gorecleaver, which I was really surprised about.

His command ability is best used when you have multiple units charging in at the same time, as it's a net result of saving command points and allows your Heroes to not have to be within 6" of each unit that is charging. 16" off of his base covers a much bigger area than you'd think, I'd put him on the table and do said measurements so you really get to acknowledge it.

His main issue is his damage being d3... so he's best being the Goretide General to benefit from Hew the Foe. 

Korghos is incredibly expensive but he will fight more often due to his huge pile-in range. His command ability is sadly a wash and he can't benefit from command abilities, although he does essentially have Slaughterborn. There was a difference between the Reality-Splitting Axes in the previous book, but now they're exactly the same. The difference before was that Korghos's was usable in any phase and the Mighty Lord was only the combat phase. This difference is now gone as both models have this capability. It's also interesting to note that Grizzlemaw has Rend.

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by AresX8

[Laier]

13 hours ago, PivotalCar said:

I just acquired a Mighty Lord of Khorne. So far I've gathered that he isn't very good due to his slow movement and meh command ability. But I really like his reality splitting axe, I just love the thought of having nagash sent into the realm of chaos never to come back. Is this guy/ khorgus khul really unplayable and could a list be built around them?

He is pretty fun in 1k casual games, especialy if you have limited mortals collection from starter. For example:

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Goretide
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Mighty Lord of Khorne (140)
- General
- Trait: Hew the Foe 
- Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak 
Bloodstoker (80)
Bloodsecrator (140)
- Artefact: Thronebreaker's Torc 
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
Gore Pilgrims (140)
Wrath-Axe (60)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 62

OR you can change slaughterhost for Bloodlords and have MLOK with Thermalrider cloak and trait for another +4 and have 13" flying boogeyman.

Ofk then you need to give him some daemons around to heal and be useful in such slaughterhost. But honestly in Bloodlords better to use Daemon Prince with Sword of Judgement - 16" move, reroll charge, healing for CP and mincing heroes/monsters wherever he is.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Laier

[Praecautus]

Part of the mighty lords power is what he could do. His axe is so nice that opponents will react eg they won’t place a monster nearby if there is a chance it can 1-shotted, or they will dedicate resources to wipe him out. Which means the real damage dealers are left alone for turn.

A useful artefact is the malign sourcery item that lets you fly, I forget the name, so he can hop over screens. But the build above is also very nice 

[Zamik]

7 minutes ago, Praecautus said:

A useful artefact is the malign sourcery item that lets you fly, I forget the name, so he can hop over screens. But the build above is also very nice 

I know the Thermalrider Cloak, an Aqshy artefact, gives a Hero Flying and +4" movement. I used it in my last game so my Bloodsecrator could get to buffing all the runners.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Zamik

[Praecautus]

6 minutes ago, Zamik said:

I know the Thermalrider Cloak, an Aqshy artefact, gives a Hero Flying and +4" movement. I used it in my last game so my Bloodsecrator could get to buffing all the runners.

Thanks, that’s the one. The MLoK is also a good recipient for it so he can fly about and smack something. Couple with some blood tithe andhe could be doing an 18 inch fly, plus charge, plus pile in. 

I may have to give it a go.

[Darksteve]

3 hours ago, Laier said:

He is pretty fun in 1k casual games, especialy if you have limited mortals collection from starter. For example:

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Goretide
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Mighty Lord of Khorne (140)
- General
- Trait: Hew the Foe 
- Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak 
Bloodstoker (80)
Bloodsecrator (140)
- Artefact: Thronebreaker's Torc 
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
Gore Pilgrims (140)
Wrath-Axe (60)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 62

OR you can change slaughterhost for Bloodlords and have MLOK with Thermalrider cloak and trait for another +4 and have 13" flying boogeyman.

Ofk then you need to give him some daemons around to heal and be useful in such slaughterhost. But honestly in Bloodlords better to use Daemon Prince with Sword of Judgement - 16" move, reroll charge, healing for CP and mincing heroes/monsters wherever he is.

How does the prince get to 16" move with sword of judgement? He's base 8" +4 for warlord trait, but the sword takes his artefact slot

[Laier]

4 minutes ago, Darksteve said:

How does the prince get to 16" move with sword of judgement? He's base 8" +4 for warlord trait, but the sword takes his artefact slot

DP is 12" with wings

[Sleboda]

Hey folks,

I've been watching some more battle reports lately (so hard to find good YouTubers who make decent quality videos and don't hurt my ears to listen to!), and I've noticed the Khorne players using two prayers per turn from one Slaughterpriest. How is this possible? Sure, you get to "know" an additional prayer from the extra list, but I see nothing that lets him use more than one per turn.

What am I missing?

[pollo1126]

Slaugherpriests can cast 1 of their prayers on their card, (blood boil), 1 prayer of khorne (killing frenzy), and one endless spell (wrath axe) every turn.

[Darksteve]

18 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Hey folks,

I've been watching some more battle reports lately (so hard to find good YouTubers who make decent quality videos and don't hurt my ears to listen to!), and I've noticed the Khorne players using two prayers per turn from one Slaughterpriest. How is this possible? Sure, you get to "know" an additional prayer from the extra list, but I see nothing that lets him use more than one per turn.

What am I missing?

This was gone over in detail a few pages back. 

Just now, pollo1126 said:

Slaugherpriests can cast 1 of their prayers on their card, (blood boil), 1 prayer of khorne (killing frenzy), and one endless spell (wrath axe) every turn.

@pollo1126 is spot on here. The reason it works like that is slaughter priests have 3 entirely seperate mechanics at play that do not interact with each other.  1) Warscroll prayer, both are cast on a 4+, you get 1 per priest per hero phase, you cast tjese during the hero phase , and on a 1 you take d3 mortal wounds. 2) Blood Blessing, all are on a 4+ you only get to pick one to know at the start and you are allow to cast it, the ability does not have anything to do with warscroll prayers despite looking similar, you cast these at the start  of the hero phase instead of during, and on a 1 you take 1 mortal wound. 3) Judgements, each priest knows all the judgements you pay for, you can only attempt each judgement once per hero phase, uou can only summon one of each in matched play to the field at a time, the are attempted at the start of the hero phase, and  if you roll a 1 nothing bad happens to you other than failing.  In addition to all of that priests can also attempt to dispel an endless spell at the beginning of your hero phase without giving up anything. 

[Darksteve]

45 minutes ago, Laier said:

DP is 12" with wings

I did not know that. That is really nest then, thanks!

[Charleston]

I have 9 Bloodcrushers here that I am currently moving onto oval bases. I am still thinking about how to use them in the best possible manner. The best Idea I had thus far is to go for Bloodtithe points and an enemy unit that is small enough to be stomped by charge and one turn of combat so I could charge in my enemies hero phase again. The big issue is to hit the BT Cap required fast enough. I tought about sending Skarbrand next to them: Locust and havoc as soon as he touches anything in CC should guarantee some more BT Points.

[Bjornas]

Argh so my Juggerlord spent another game doing nothing again. Either I just don't know how to use him properly, or he really is not that useful. I've even given him the Thronebreaker Torc, yet I still manage to fail 75% of saves (not his fault tbh). Despite his 8" move he still feels very clunky to move around. Is it just me, or is he just not a strong performer these days? Am I better off with a Daemon Prince if they keep having the same cost after GHB19?

[TheArborealWalrus]

21 hours ago, PivotalCar said:

I just acquired a Mighty Lord of Khorne. So far I've gathered that he isn't very good due to his slow movement and meh command ability. But I really like his reality splitting axe, I just love the thought of having nagash sent into the realm of chaos never to come back. Is this guy/ khorgus khul really unplayable and could a list be built around them?

I would say that you shouldn't build the list around him, but he does make an excellent counter to the likes of morathi, nagash and any other suitably unkillable nasties on the table. I added one to my brass despoilers list specifically to deal with such ilk. I like adding the gorretide's artifact to make it more likely for him to survive poking the hornet's nest, but that's just an extra add on. That being said, his underwhelming damage has made it difficult to inflict the damage on his targets to delete them, so it's a bit of a gamble.

 

I don't want  to spam battle reports, so suffice it to say that I had a close battle with a rookie flesh eaters court player and am uncertain how I might compete with my mortals against them once he finds his footing. He was playing the blisterkin deadwatch (lots o' flayers) without a terrorgheist. I know about the double chaff wall strategy (too many points for not enough reward, especially with all the screaming possible) and striking back when you're slain isn't bad, but with the regen it feels negligible. I had enough hammers in my list that when he smashed into my castle my response was quick and brutal (I won the roll off for turn which meant I could respond to his attack) but I don't want to have to rely on this, especially when he decides to try the infamous always strikes first terrorgheist.  

So, any thoughts on how a mortal army can deal with these creatures? I'm probably overthinking this, but...

What worked?: The slaughterborn battalion reduced the damage from the flayers from staggering to bearable (helped that he was whiffing a lot). Skullreapers were tougher than he expected and could get the upper hand on flayers. Probably a fluke, but the thirster did magnificently, even with failing to get any prayers off on him. Easily MVP of the match. Ignoring their armour was nice. Rend anything basically ended up ignoring his save, making him rely on the 6++ which can be dangerous for him to get close enough to use. Slaughterpriests' blood boil helped to cut his respawn heroes down to size. Zoning kept him out of where I didn't want him with those big bases (his long charge rolls neutralized this, but still).

Theoretically works?: Without always strikes first, gheists aren't very durable (especially riderless ones)so killing them shouldn't be a problem. . Only one summon per king type, once they're used you can relax your rear guard (depending on where they went).

What didn't work?: Blood warrior chaff. They got screamed off the board before he charged in with the flayers. I imagine with a gheist it'll be worse.

Theoretical problems: Hordes. We were both using elite armies so his magic goblet didn't help him much, but with a lot of bodies on both sides, I see it as a potential problem. Teleporting was an issue, blisterkin gave him a command trait to teleport a flying units which he did onto objectives. On a long ways deployment with more objectives that could be scary. That it can be used anytime seems like more of an issue to me though.

[ChaosLord]

3 hours ago, Bjornas said:

Argh so my Juggerlord spent another game doing nothing again. Either I just don't know how to use him properly, or he really is not that useful. I've even given him the Thronebreaker Torc, yet I still manage to fail 75% of saves (not his fault tbh). Despite his 8" move he still feels very clunky to move around. Is it just me, or is he just not a strong performer these days? Am I better off with a Daemon Prince if they keep having the same cost after GHB19?

Chaos Lord on Demonic Mount is 140. I feel like that's where Juggerlord should be.

[Battlefury]

Juggerlord was 140 points before the new release. Really don't know why they changed him though.

8 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

So, any thoughts on how a mortal army can deal with these creatures? I'm probably overthinking this, but...

You're right. From what I can tell, we just can't deal with it.
Concidering the tier levels in the global meta:

Khorne is mid tier 2 ( non competetive, okeyish for casual )
FEC are S Tier ( broken army, together with skaven atm )

What does that actually mean? If the FEC player ( as you told ) finds his strategies and unit choice, he will shredd our armies to pieces. No matter what we will do.
Terrorgheists are easy to get rid, but if he comes with the mass of ghouls and the horrors / flayers we will have some rough games out there.

We chall try Tyrant's lists. It really could have enogh impact to smash his key units, before he starts to rofl stomp.

[Xasz]

The Lord on Juggernaut lost his one viable combo (Gorecleaver MWs), which made him reasonably reliable.

On top of that, he got more expensive. Therefore he will always be overshadowed by other options from now on. (unless, someone miraculously finds another, similarly reliable setup)

It's not even a discussion at this point.

[Grimrock]

The army seems to have a very specific counter to FEC: tyrants of blood with the halo of blood artifact. Use your entire army as a screen, then hope to get the charge in and tag team the nastiest stuff before it gets to attack. Otherwise whatever goes into the terrorgheist will probably just die. 

A dark feast could conceivably work by creating two layers of buffer around the army but you'll probably still need to get lucky.

Not ideal, but not much else to do. As has been said FEC is bonkers at the moment.

[Battlefury]

2 hours ago, Grimrock said:

The army seems to have a very specific counter to FEC: tyrants of blood with the halo of blood artifact. Use your entire army as a screen, then hope to get the charge in and tag team the nastiest stuff before it gets to attack. Otherwise whatever goes into the terrorgheist will probably just die. 

A dark feast could conceivably work by creating two layers of buffer around the army but you'll probably still need to get lucky.

Not ideal, but not much else to do. As has been said FEC is bonkers at the moment.

Yepp, but we do have an issue, that you pointed out pretty well with only a few words:

"[...] hope [...]"
"[...] need to get lucky [...]"

I wanna point out, that we just don't have that great of reliance in our army.
With the Tyrant's list it comes down to having good rolls. Someone could argue now, that the enitire game is about lucky rolls, but I especially mean the damage value of the weapons.
D3 and D6 is not really a reliable thing though. In the tournament at saturday one Khorne player played with an Insensate Rage BT, and everyone could see that this guy does nothing or everything. Nothing within between that, really. He destroyed it all, or went into redundancy.

To counter a list of FEC we need to smash them as hard as we can, but our heroes just have that much random damage value... .
One hero though to concider would be a buffed Skullgrinder.

But I don't know where to go from there.

 

 

[Oreaper84]

I think that the general key to dealing with FEC and now Slannesh has got to be the added range pile in. True the ASF mechanic from bloodlords is nice and the Tyrants can hurt, but i think we are only an unfettered fury away from dealing with those nasty ASF units across the board. I mean 10 bloodletters buffed deal with a GKoT fairly well

[AresX8]

I have to agree with the Unfettered Fury Bloodthirster. I finally sat down and magnetized the whip and used him last night and I was very impressed by him. The 6" pile in move is deceptively strong and is incredible for 6 model units of Bloodcrushers. His whip also does a surprising amount of damage now that he hits on 3's, re-rolling 1's. I'm really happy to say that all 3 Bloodthirsters are very much worth using :).

As part of the game last night I had Skulltaker be an absolute boss, doing I believe 15 mortal wounds (9 of them to a Ghoul King on a Terrorgheist XD). He's definitely worth it for 120 points and is the best Bloodletter Hero to use in Murderhost. Give him Bronzed Flesh, and he has a 3+ re-rollable save, so strong!

I've been finding Bloodletters subpar, which is very unfortunate. Them losing run and charge hit them a lot, lot harder than I anticipated, and to get them to worthwhile damage results, here's what you have to put into a single unit:

- Reapers of Vengeance Leave None Alive.
- Extra attacks (only via Bloodsecrator and Wrathmongers)
- Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster's Lord of the Blood Hunt to fish for 6's.

That's 2 command points and you need to have the unit wholly within 8" of a Daemon Hero which is way harder than it sounds when it's a big blob of Bloodletters, and wholly within 8" of a few Wrathmongers (rather difficult), and wholly within 16" of a Bloodsecrator (This one is pretty easy) . They also really need to be screened to have them attack first, otherwise they just fold so easily with 1 wound a 5+ for their cost. They do seem overcosted due to the expectation of rolling a lot of 6's on hits for those mortals.

I'm really sad about this since I have 60 Bloodletters, 40 of them are fully painted. Flesh Hounds have similar durability issues but they need attack buffs much less with their really high base amount of attacks, and have a lot for their points. 

I also took a unit of 6 Bloodcrushers and was impressed by them too. They seem appropriately pointed for their durability, speed and output. Just makes me more excited to start testing Skullcrushers

Edited May 29, 2019 by AresX8