Who Likes Initiative rolls?

[Acid_Nine]

So, the thought came up recently as I was thinking about AOS, and about rolling for initiative at the start of each turn after the first. I Will reserve my oppinion about it until more people post, but It definitely changes the game and it's flow compared to past fantasy and 40k. Since this place is probably the best place to learn about the opinion of people who play the game,  I just wanted to ask:

Do you guys like rolling for turn initiative, or do you guys like the traditional "I go, you go" gameplay?

[rokapoke]

At first when I read this question, I thought about those games where I've lost "because of the initiative rolls." It hurts every time. But despite those instances, I have an overall positive feeling about the roll-off each battleround. After all, for every game I think I've lost based on the rolls, there's another game that I've won "because of the initiative rolls." Note the quotation marks in both instances because there's a lot more than that one roll-off that goes into victory/defeat. So I'm for it -- even to the extent that it would be a good addition to the first battleround as well (which it certainly appears is a foregone conclusion anyway).

[stato]

Do we need another post on this? There are million already. Sorry to be a downer but it never seems to end.

[Acid_Nine]

2 minutes ago, stato said:

Do we need another post on this? There are million already. Sorry to be a downer but it never seems to end.

If there is a million then what's the harm in another? besides I missed the discussions so I wanted to ask, both for myself and those that missed the last discussions.

[Redmanphill]

It improves the game. That does not equate always with liking it or not. Maybe a different question is needed?

[Skabnoze]

I prefer neither of those options to be honest. I either prefer standard alternate activations, or even better are games that take a hybrid alternate activation order system and build on it such as the new Star Wars Legion or Xwing.

But the current combat system allowing both sides to pile in works well enough with the initiative roll system.  The only issue I really see for the current system in Age of Sigmar is when armies have very strong shooting or magic and the system allows them to double up turns.

[Mr. White]

[SaJeel]

First turn advantage is so powerful, initiative roll imo elegantly and fairly balances it

[Charles]

Love it

[Rhellion]

Love it. Integral part of the game and part of why I enjoy the game.

[BunkhouseBuster]

I like it well enough.  I haven't had any major instances of wishing it didn't exist, but I do enjoy the excitement that comes from not know what is going to happen next.  Granted, I haven't played many games where shooting or magic was a major factor, so in games with lots of melee centered combat, the alternate initiative works great.

Of course, it's also fun when my opponent and I remember to roll for initiative!

Disclaimer: I have not played any other method of wargame unit activation, it's all been IGOUGO for all units (40K, WHFB, BFG, WM/H, et al.).  However, I am aware of the faults in such a system and how it affects larger games, and can greatly appreciate alternate unit activation in wargaming.

[LLV]

Well, It seems that first turn will dictated by a dice roll rather than drops in AoS 2 - just not heard if priority is going away. I know combat priority I changing to be like 40k, as in charging units get to go first.

[ledha]

I don't like it when the second player win the first initiative roll. Because playing first is usually fast (except if you rely a lot on alpha strike) it can be quite boring to play 10 minutes, while your opponent play 50 min straight.

Later in the game, it doesn't feel as frustrating.

It rebalanced unbalanced game, and unbalance balanced one. It give suspense. Which is good. Sometime frustrating, but hey. I prefer this than a game where people could go full alpha strike without a fear of retaliation

[Greasygeek]

At first we hated it but eventually we gave in and now I would never play a game without the initiative roll. There is nothing more scary than the initiative roll and its absolutely perfect. 

If I should add one little twist to smooth fairness out it should be for AOS to adopt the rules for  priority rolls in necromunda. To those that don’t know its the same as the initiative roll with the exception that whoever won the roll will lose any tie rolls the turn after.

[Wraith01]

I think rolling for initiative every round  is really cool. 

[Qaz]

7 hours ago, Greasygeek said:

At first we hated it but eventually we gave in and now I would never play a game without the initiative roll. There is nothing more scary than the initiative roll and its absolutely perfect. 

If I should add one little twist to smooth fairness out it should be for AOS to adopt the rules for  priority rolls in necromunda. To those that don’t know its the same as the initiative roll with the exception that whoever won the roll will lose any tie rolls the turn after.

Oh. That's a neat idea and keeps the game interesting. I second the necromunda priority roll. 

[Still-young]

11 hours ago, Redmanphill said:

It improves the game. That does not equate always with liking it or not. Maybe a different question is needed?

Whether it improves the game or not is completely subjective. 

[Jamopower]

9 hours ago, SaJeel said:

First turn advantage is so powerful, initiative roll imo elegantly and fairly balances it

I would say that in a objective based game with fixed turn order, going second is usually the best choice if there isn't huge alpha strike potential. Thus shaking that up is always a bonus in my view. The necromunda tweak sounds also nice.

[MacDuff]

I think the Necromunda priority roll is an interesting idea, but let's take a step back from this game abstraction and think about what it signifies. I've thought about this a lot in playing and designing ACW (American Civil War) games. What an initiative roll represents is the efficacy of an army's chain of command in reacting to an unfolding battle. In ancient battles like ours, each leader has a battle plan that usually doesn't survive contact with the enemy.

So what happens then (after turn 1)? Changes in the battle plan are shouted by the commander to couriers, who in often in a jumbled way, transmit those new orders to unit commanders (think of the game of telephone). Unit commanders understand perfectly, or think they know better, or want to wait longer before executing, or don't think their troops can respond, or have their blood up, or simply are confused by the chaos unfolding before them. So turn 2 (in terms of which army responds faster) is driven by a multitude of communication and human factors.

So for me, rolling for initiative each turn folds all of these human factors into a single roll of the dice. Ties in the roll might also work here, as the army initiating the turn will need to perhaps regroup more in turn 2 than the defenders, whose responses are more predictably reactive.

[Mike Burgess]

I personally dislike it. For me the pro's are that it can always leave you with a chance when you are on the back foot. The con's are that is can heavily swing a balanced game and in my experience can create situations where there is less tactical play as people either go all out for the double turn, relying on the dice roll. 

I am not a great Age of Sigmar player, as such I struggle enough to come up with strategy and good plays when I have the consistency of turn order. Not knowing it creates too many variables where I feel I cannot make great tactical decisions. Perhaps I am in the minority there but I have heard way to many games where both plays have agreed that it is very likely the game would be decided on an initiative roll. 

Like many other games where there is an advantage for going first I think it just needs to be balanced. Something like a couple of triumph rolls if you go 2nd.

[Enoby]

I'm not a fan of it. Not because of the lack of balance it can create in a combat (as this could be argued to add more depth to tactics) but rather because it gets very boring to sit through some double turns. To give an example, I was playing against Sylvaneth and they got the double turn. Each turn took half an hour to complete, so I was stood there for an hour doing nothing but rolling the occasional save. There's only so much planning for the next turn one can keep themselves occupied with. 

I don't think the double turn is a problem on its own, but it does become a problem when combined with copious amounts of spells and shooting as then it feels like only one person is playing. It's not much fun playing a melee army when a shooting/magic list gets the double turn as you often lose the key components of your army before they get the chance to do anything. 

[AdamR]

Well the poll seems fairly conclusive!

I'm a big fan of it to be honest. It would irk me immensely if it was removed because of a vocal minority.

[J.J]

I'm a big fan as well. I like the uncertainty and I also like anything that takes any potential first turn advantage away. Double turning feels pretty horrible when the game is at a crucial tipping point, but for as many times as that goes against you it also goes for you. It doesn't always cause swings though, there have been plenty of turns where I'm winning at the end of the first, get double turned and still come out winning at the end of the second.

That said, a good half of the people I play with really don't like the uncertainty and the randomness which I can understand.

Issues with first turn is far more prevalent in 40k, so I wish they'd experiment with turn-by-turn priority rolling!

[Tittliewinks22]

Half hour turns seems incredibly long.  My playgroup isn't the most experienced and we have to look up warscrolls a few times a game and we still only get tops 15-20min turn.

We enjoy the priority roll because it makes planning and maneuvering more tactical.  Movement is my favorite part of the game.

[Ollie Grimwood]

I love them.

I’ve seen a number of these polls over  the life of AoS and in AoS forums they always come out the the same. I’d suggest this is no surprise people who like AoS like its rules.