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The real problem with combining Fyreslayers and Dispossed is that neither faction really gets anything out of it. Seriously, in terms of mechanics they are largely identical already.

Slow, tanky infantry units backed by support heroes describes both armies to a T.  They both have tunneling as a hero limited deepstrike mechanic. Even Auric Hearthguard and IronDrakes are almost the same unit in terms of stats. Different models but they gain basically no new options by combining.

Fyreslayers have so much more potential to be more interesting by continuing off in their own direction, (More fire, more monsters, new mounted units, ect) and Dispossed are much better served melding with Ironweld to reform the old Dwarf army.

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32 minutes ago, Neinball said:

Don’t get my hopes up like that! Lol

I would love a death rattle battletome with the return of Krell riding some giant skeletal beast.

The problem with Death rattle getting their own book, is that they're pretty central to Legions of Nagash, where as you can take Nighthaunt and Soulblight, and you've still got a funtioning army. I think we'll see Death rethought(LoN definitly feels like a stop gap) that's more that a new LoN tome. I'd love to see Soulblight go its own way with new vampire stuff(maybe neferata and manfred go here too), deadwalkers move to FEC with zombie the peasant bowmen to the ghouls men at arms(probably zero percent chance of happening), and then death rattle, deathmages and deathlords end up in an army with Arkhan in command, with Nagash being in that book, but has keywords for all the death factions(like Archaon with the all the Chaos marks).

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Honestly considering what is actually left of High Elves they would REALLY easily merge into an angelic Aelf army. Dragon riders, dragon armoured horses, mage archers, pheonix and skycutter are all ideal for that. Throw in some aleves with wings; some troops and a few heroes and you've got an army right there.

 

Ally in the lions and you've got an army. 

Heck bring the wood elf deer riders in too 

 

Edited by Overread
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1 minute ago, madmac said:

The real problem with combining Fyreslayers and Dispossed is that neither faction really gets anything out of it. Seriously, in terms of mechanics they are largely identical already.

Slow, tanky infantry units backed by support heroes describes both armies to a T.  They both have tunneling as a hero limited deepstrike mechanic. Even Auric Hearthguard and IronDrakes are almost the same unit in terms of stats. Different models but they gain basically no new options by combining.

Fyreslayers have so much more potential to be more interesting by continuing off in their own direction, (More fire, more monsters, new mounted units, ect) and Dispossed are much better served melding with Ironweld to reform the old Dwarf army.

I don't think there's much danger of Fyreslayers getting combined with Dispossed. A whole slayer army has been a long time coming(with it's own book, I think you could run all slayers at various times in WHFB) and I don't think they're going to undo it now.

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6 minutes ago, novakai said:

they just probably follow AoS website faction layout they did for AoS 2. the only previous BT army that they merge where just Clan Pestilins into Skaven and Everchosen into StD. they clearly specify that Gutbuster and BCR are of different armies along with Free people and Dispossessed

Interesting to look at. If you just go off the list of armies on the website, there are 25 factions:

  • 3 Death (Legions, Nighthaunt, Flesh Eaters) - all have or about to receive a Battletome
  • 5 Destruction (Ironjawz, Gutbusters, BCR, Bonesplitterz, Grots) - Gutbusters missing a tome or GHB faction rules, Ironjawz need to be updated. BCR and Bonesplitterz potentially updated?
  • 7 Chaos (StD/Everchosen, Skaven, Beasts, Khorne, Slaanesh, Nurgle, Tzeentch) - StD and Slaanesh need books, Khorne getting updated, rest have relatively new ones (though Tzeentch is an easy bet for Endless Spells going forwards)
  • 10 Order (SCE, Aelves, ID, DoK, Dispossessed, Fyreslayers, KO, Sylv, Free Peoples, Seraphon) - DoK and ID are probably not getting anything soon, which is fine. Aelves would then get a full soup treatment, which is probably ok? Fyreslayers and Seraphon need an update and are prime targets for terrain/Endless. 

 

Note: 25 is pretty similar to the number of factions in 40k, which I think is the army count they're shooting for. If they add a brand new army, it'll be slow, maybe 1 every year or every other year going forward, I doubt we see as much brand new stuff as we've seen in the past couple years. 

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5 minutes ago, bsharitt said:

I don't think there's much danger of Fyreslayers getting combined with Dispossed. A whole slayer army has been a long time coming(with it's own book, I think you could run all slayers at various times in WHFB) and I don't think they're going to undo it now.

Agreed, that said, I think that is how you fix Dispossessed.  By the lore, they're dwarves that have been rejected from their holds, hence the name. I think you keep the core faction and keywords, but allow them to include any other Duardin keyworded unit (so FS, KO, Iron Weld) in the army as not an ally, although they gain the dispossessed abilities (i.e. grudges for past sins against them, resolute, etc.). So those other allegiances (KO and FS) maintain their distinct character, while recognizing that even Fyreslayers can be dispossessed of their holds and find common cause in grudge-settling with their kin. 

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I suspect a good chunk of the order range is due for a culling, but not until some more new factions are released to replace/absorb chunks of it. Much like how GW didn't officially pull Gitmob and Orruks until Gloomspite was released.

Freeguild IMO are largely placeholders until a new human faction is released, likewise the final fate of the various Aelf leftovers won't be fully apparent until the Shadow/Light Aelf factions are released, and it may be a while before we get any of those factions.

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9 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said:

Agreed, that said, I think that is how you fix Dispossessed.  By the lore, they're dwarves that have been rejected from their holds, hence the name. I think you keep the core faction and keywords, but allow them to include any other Duardin keyworded unit (so FS, KO, Iron Weld) in the army as not an ally, although they gain the dispossessed abilities (i.e. grudges for past sins against them, resolute, etc.). So those other allegiances (KO and FS) maintain their distinct character, while recognizing that even Fyreslayers can be dispossessed of their holds and find common cause in grudge-settling with their kin. 

I can~t shake the feeling that Dispossessed might become a larger release somwhere i nthe fututre (perhaps even after a BT which might come soon). Since Fyreslayers represent Grinir whereas Dispossessed represent Grungni.

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Just now, Thomas Lyons said:

Agreed, that said, I think that is how you fix Dispossessed.  By the lore, they're dwarves that have been rejected from their holds, hence the name. I think you keep the core faction and keywords, but allow them to include any other Duardin keyworded unit (so FS, KO, Iron Weld) in the army as not an ally, although they gain the dispossessed abilities (i.e. grudges for past sins against them, resolute, etc.). So those other allegiances (KO and FS) maintain their distinct character, while recognizing that even Fyreslayers can be dispossessed of their holds and find common cause in grudge-settling with their kin. 

Yeah, I'm less certain on the mechanics front (not my area, that's for others to offer their expertise) but in terms on lore, I think a Khardon/Dispossessed merger makes sense along the lines of an Ancestor god reunification (which therefore leaves out the 'post-enlightenment' KO).

  • The Fyreslayers have a distinct and established culture of lodges, but their main priority is restoring the shattered essence of Grimnir.
  • Grungni, who could act as the Dispossessed's 'returning ancestral father', could offer the Fyreslayers help in that quest in return for reestablishing old alliances.
  • Perhaps Valaya manages through some contrivance to escape Shyish/Nagash's belly, where she could act as a third party keeping the brothers together (release a few models so it acts as the Thunderscorn/Troggoth smallest third faction). 

Presto, three factions in one book. Like the Gitz, each has a distinct identity but have a strong unifying theme (with GG it's permutations of the Bad Moon, with Duardin it's the Ancestor Gods). 

 

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2 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

I can~t shake the feeling that Dispossessed might become a larger release somwhere i nthe fututre (perhaps even after a BT which might come soon). Since Fyreslayers represent Grinir whereas Dispossessed represent Grungni.

I sure hope so as well.

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Without getting too much into wishlisting, I wonder what sort of stuff would be in a Dispossessed Battletome. Their current Allegiance Abilities are a bit boring (autopass Battleshock on a 1-3, choose a Grudge), but since they're pretty generic Fantasy Dwarves I'm not sure what other rules, Terrain, or Endless Spells/Prayers/Grudges/etc would be interesting. I'm excited to see, though!

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7 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Really? I don't recall either of those statements. I could very well have a poor memory, but I really don't think they said either of those things.

Could your expectations simply have been out of line with what was said?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/02/04/feb4-this-week-at-the-lvogw-homepage-post-3/
"We can’t reveal anything about this year’s LVO preview yet, save that it’s going to blow you away, whatever you collect."

Then, on the page before they revealed the preview, it said they think this preview was going to be the best ever. 

I'm not trying to nitpick, GW is going to release tons of great stuff this year for sure, but they hyped it up like they were about to drop a bomb, and many of us were expecting a new range of Darkoath or Slaanesh to be previewed, instead its a couple Khorne models and some vague announcements. I think they could have given us more to go on with this new expansion and skirmish game.

Khorne is also probably the least needed new tome in all of AoS .. Khorne is one of the most updated model ranges, and their rules are super solid right now, they just got updates in Wrath & Rapture and were one of the most solid armies post 2.0. That's a big disappointment for people who have large collections of models which have never seen a tome in AoS at all yet. Speaking of 5 years ago, if they had announced the 3rd Khorne tome in 3 years the community would be irate, each army got a new book on a 5-15 year schedule back then.

I'm just really surprised, with the two new tome announcements last week, I thought for sure they were like revving up to some head-exploding announcements. They are probably holding a lot back for a big Adepticon preview. It looks like for AoS we can expect a steady stream of new tomes with a few new models which is nice. Lots of rumors of stuff like Seraphon & Fyreslayers.

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41 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

All the high Aelves factions could be united. Swifthawk will lose a lot of models, the others are already full plastic.

As a Swifthawk fan, that bums me out as with their old battalion, they were quite playable and fun.

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1 hour ago, GeneralZero said:

I don't beleive we will have tomes this way. They more likely say that we have a tome for Chaos when Skaven is out, a tome for destruction when gloomspite is out etc...

Technically, StD and Slanesh are new armies as they don't already have a specific battletome and too much change to tell that it is an update...

But maybe something new, out of nowhere like KO or IDK, lets hope....

Some of them will be updated, yes. But all of them???? dunno...who knows but GW? 

Well to me brand-new means they don't have anything, aka KO and IDK treatment. Of course marketing could have chosen their words badly. But assuming they know English better than I do and they want to tease people I would expect to be surprised this year. So far not many models came out and we don't really know how big Slaanesh and Slaves are going to be. If we say many tomes are coming out it is possible there is space for new things. Plus so far neither StD or Slaanesh have been confirmed for 2019...

There's also the thing about the secret being revealed, well Slaanesh is in a hidden location, I doubt, but do you guys think it may fit about the secret revealed? This space between Ulgu and Hysh?

About Deathrattle, exactly as Nighthaunt their core can be part of LoN while being split and have their own identity. In Soul Wars from Josh Reynolds Deathrattle and Deadwalkers have their own army next to Nighthaunt so it's not improbable, although so far just wishlisting... The only other link would be the Shadespire warband that as today is the only warband that cannot be played in AoS outside of a Grand Alliance army.

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37 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

I can't shake the feeling that Dispossessed might become a larger release somwhere i nthe fututre (perhaps even after a BT which might come soon). Since Fyreslayers represent Grimnir where as Dispossessed represent Grungni.

Fyreslayers represent Grimnir, Kharadron Overlords represent Grungni, Dispossessed represent the late (?) Valaya.

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Just now, amysrevenge said:

Fyreslayers represent Grimnir, Kharadron Overlords represent Grungni, Dispossessed represent the late (?) Valaya.

True... though wasn't there some story which said Grungni was back and hanging with the dispossessed somewhere?

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31 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said:

Khorne is also probably the least needed new tome in all of AoS .. Khorne is one of the most updated model ranges, and their rules are super solid right now, they just got updates in Wrath & Rapture and were one of the most solid armies post 2.0. That's a big disappointment for people who have large collections of models which have never seen a tome in AoS at all yet. Speaking of 5 years ago, if they had announced the 3rd Khorne tome in 3 years the community would be irate, each army got a new book on a 5-15 year schedule back then.

From what I understand this Blades of Khorne tome is a multi-army one, allowing one to play as Bloodbound, Daemons or Generic Khorne. Maybe even Khorne Beastmen? From what I understand the old tome of 2017 was heavily Generic Khorne only. It seems like giving every sub-faction allegiance abilities is what they are going to do moving forward with Battletomes.

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1 minute ago, JackStreicher said:

True... though wasn't there some story which said Grungni was back and hanging with the dispossessed somewhere?

He is in ‘Eight lamentations’ and seeing the interaction with the duardin character he’s not publicly involved. Even though he might be the Dispossessed main religion. 

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5 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

True... though wasn't there some story which said Grungni was back and hanging with the dispossessed somewhere?

Well to be fair, the Dispossessed retain enough of the Dwarves of old to have some kinship with all 3 of their traditional ancestors.  What you'd really want to have is a similar process applied to them of the sort:

Runesmiths & Slayers -> Runes -> Grimnir -> Fyreslayers

Engineers and Thunderers -> Engineering -> Grungni -> Kharadron Overlords

Thanes and Ironbreakers and Hammerers -> Hearth and Hold ->  Valaya -> ??? Something new

At that point, you don't really need old Dwarves any more.  You've got all the themes covered with something new.

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3 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

Fyreslayers represent Grimnir, Kharadron Overlords represent Grungni, Dispossessed represent the late (?) Valaya.

Kharadron have a sort of secular, post-ancestor culture (except for Barak-Thryng, who are basically Duardin Rockabillies :P ). The dispossessed seem to have a greater link to Grungni, which comes across in Spear of Shadows (they do feel a bit abandoned by him, though). Valaya would have to be a whole new faction, as she's currently forgotten. But poised for a comeback (the more I say it, the more likely it is to happen, right? That's how new age stuff works?) 

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1 hour ago, Thiagoma said:

All the high Aelves factions could be united. Swifthawk will lose a lot of models, the others are already full plastic.

Swordmasters are still sold in resin. 

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Oh,

Just now, amysrevenge said:

Thanes and Ironbreakers and Hammerers -> Hearth and Hold ->  Valaya -> ??? Something new

 

Valaya is also the god of alcohol, so Battletome: Sloshed Stunties confirmed? 

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5 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

Thanes and Ironbreakers and Hammerers -> Hearth and Hold ->  Valaya -> ??? Something new

Could be really interesting to see an army focused on extreme defense. heck maybe there terrain piece could just be more terrain. walls and such. 

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Also I wanted to note down but the LVO announcement hid it, the Skaven have the first endless spell that does not hurt the caster when is sent back! That’s super cool and I wish there were more options like that cause predatory spells are really situational and often difficult to pull

and reconnecting to LVO, maybe Khorne artefacts work the same way? Cause you know a Order wizard pulling a Khorne prayer back to you does not make much sense...

Edited by alghero81

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