The Rumour Thread

[Neverchosen]

I think my earlier prediction was pretty accurate he has a good warscroll but nothing that breaks the game. Furthermore his lack of synergy is likely his biggest draw back. I think as @Belimanpoints out he will be easy to play around while not being terrible. Many of his abilities make me wonder about 3.0 rules namely will defensible/garrisonable terrain make a bigger impact on the game going forward? Hopefully hinting at proper siege mechanics? 

[Tiberius501]

I just wish GW calmed down with the mortal wounds. 36 mortals potentially coming from 1 model, even though it’s just against monsters, just seems absurd. Less mortal wound GW. Less! Stop putting more and more onto units like it’s a meme.

He seems fine otherwise, I like him being a powerhouse but not as good as the full blown gods. I’d just hoped 3rd would chill out a little with mortals, but clearly not. That’s a real shame.

[CommissarRotke]

12 minutes ago, Thane said:

Does anyone else think the name Morruks is kinda terrible? I'm hoping that name turns out to be false and its just "Kruel Boyz" as the faction name and their race is just Hobgobs or Hobgrots or something.

i actually do like it, feels like a proper tie-in to the Gork&Mork/Gorkamorka worship.

Now if morruk = Mork orruk, then the most obvious next thing would be gorruks--or Gork orruks. "Gorruk" doesn't hit as well, but having an actual representation of Gork or Mork (or Mork or Gork) seems like a good decision if they're going for a Greenskin soup.

Morruks are cunningly brutal ambushers, gorruks are brutally cunning fighters (probably Ironjaws)

Edited May 24, 2021 by CommissarRotke

[Hoseman]

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[PJetski]

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[Feii]

1 minute ago, Tiberius501 said:

I just wish GW calmed down with the mortal wounds. 36 mortals potentially coming from 1 model, even though it’s just against monsters, just seems absurd. Less mortal wound GW. Less! Stop putting more and more onto units like it’s a meme.

He seems fine otherwise, I like him being a powerhouse but not as good as the full blown gods. I’d just hoped 3rd would chill out a little with mortals, but clearly not. That’s a real shame.

well it is on charge meele ability. You can screen him there is no way for him to run and charge (UNLESS there are some general CA's for GA Destruction that allow that etc.) If he charges into your screens and then you charge him with a monster he cannot deal with it in meele that easily. 

[Aeryenn]

I don't know, correct me, but how do you see taking him down? Don't tell me you don't have to and chaff is enough. 10" movement is far from bad. Not having flying might hurt from time to time but most of the time he will wipe out other centerpieces or elites. No allegiance? In my opinion he doesn't need any with such a save and damage output. If somebody deserves the name of one man army it is him. It's my opinion off course and you are welcome to think otherwise.

[PJetski]

1 minute ago, Aeryenn said:

I don't know, correct me, but how do you see taking him down? Don't tell me you don't have to and chaff is enough. 10" movement is far from bad. Not having flying might hurt from time to time but most of the time he will wipe out other centerpieces or elites. No allegiance? In my opinion he doesn't need any with such a save and damage output. If somebody deserves the name of one man army it is him. It's my opinion off course and you are welcome to think otherwise.

Same way you kill everything in AOS 2

1. Fight first fight twice

2. Shoot at it until its gone

3. Magic at it until its gone

4. Shoot then charge at it and hope they cant do #1

[Feii]

1 minute ago, Aeryenn said:

I don't know, correct me, but how do you see taking him down? Don't tell me you don't have to and chaff is enough. 10" movement is far from bad. Not having flying might hurt from time to time but most of the time he will wipe out other centerpieces or elites. No allegiance? In my opinion he doesn't need any with such a save and damage output. If somebody deserves the name of one man army it is him. It's my opinion off course and you are welcome to think otherwise.

you are not killing him? You don't care if he dies or not. You throw a large blob of skinks/SCE troops on him and tie him down for 2 turns effectively tying 1/4+ of your opponent's army with some chaff. He might get bracketed in the process and become even slower. 


This is the problem with Centerpiece models. People think that always the correct way to play is to tunnel vision focus the centerpiece and kill it ASAP but sometimes you should play around it. 


Competitively speaking if he costs above 500 points he is competitively unplayable 
 

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

1 hour ago, Kaleb Daark said:

His horns count as a hat - he has a big hat.  Look at everything else in the game with a big hat, and you know he's not going to be a push over.  The khorne Dragon doesn't have a big hat.  He will beat the khorne dragon.

Well that's just science!

[mojojojo101]

7 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

I don't know, correct me, but how do you see taking him down? Don't tell me you don't have to and chaff is enough. 10" movement is far from bad. Not having flying might hurt from time to time but most of the time he will wipe out other centerpieces or elites. No allegiance? In my opinion he doesn't need any with such a save and damage output. If somebody deserves the name of one man army it is him. It's my opinion off course and you are welcome to think otherwise.

Unless I misread the scroll he has no MW protection (but can stop spells) so anything that can do a large number of MWs from somewhere other than spells is probably the answer.

Just from what I play I reckon I could fairly reliably get him down from 2 activations of 20 Blood Stalkers which means he is probably dead turn 1 if he is positioned badly (using Morathi-Khaine's command ability)

I'd also feel pretty good about getting him with a double activation with a AGKoRT, even moreso with the +d3 attacks spell from the archregent.

[MothmanDraws]

Probably the most interesting thing on his warscroll is calling terrain "defensible " with authors note basically saying "garrison counts as defensible terrain" which points to that rule from 40k for terrain is 99% coming over 

[Televiper11]

Y’all make Kragnos sound like a beast… of chaos 😂

[Aeryenn]

1 minute ago, Feii said:

you are not killing him? You don't care if he dies or not. You throw a large blob of skinks/SCE troops on him and tie him down for 2 turns effectively tying 1/4+ of your opponent's army with some chaff. He might get bracketed in the process and become even slower. 

And what if Kragnos walks around your chaff, deals 15 mw to your crucial unit, then deals 15 more to another 3" away? And then comes his friends and finish the job? GG turn 1. Of course it might turn differently and he will be stuck fighting with some blobs. But maybe he will basically destroy 1/3 of your army turn 1 if he charges where he wanted to.

[cofaxest]

9 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

I don't know, correct me, but how do you see taking him down? Don't tell me you don't have to and chaff is enough. 10" movement is far from bad. Not having flying might hurt from time to time but most of the time he will wipe out other centerpieces or elites. No allegiance? In my opinion he doesn't need any with such a save and damage output. If somebody deserves the name of one man army it is him. It's my opinion off course and you are welcome to think otherwise.

6 drill cannons on skywardens + 3 drillcannons on gunhawlers with full reroll tohit could kill him turn 1 from 24 inches... 

[Beliman]

18 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

I don't know, correct me, but how do you see taking him down? Don't tell me you don't have to and chaff is enough. 10" movement is far from bad. Not having flying might hurt from time to time but most of the time he will wipe out other centerpieces or elites. No allegiance? In my opinion he doesn't need any with such a save and damage output. If somebody deserves the name of one man army it is him. It's my opinion off course and you are welcome to think otherwise.

I can't talk until I play some games.

But I would say exactly the same as other powerhouses with the same problems: I will try to control him (half movement, -1/ -2 to run or charge, endless spells in front of him, whatever you have, it will be good). Knowing that 90% of the armies have small troops and he is going to cost 25% or more points, i would throw one or two units of 60-120 points troops just tag him to buy  1 turn or maybe even 2 turns.

If you succeed, probably you are already winning the objective game (with 200-300 more active points) and probably he will only have the last two turns to reach an objective and clean it to capture.

Of course, every army has their own tools (charging mortal wounds, fly over mortal wounds, shooting with high rend, shooting mortal wounds, etc...) that can even kill him. But even if you can kill him,  it's all about the battleplan and 90% of my games I'm pretty sure that I would focus on killing his 1500 points of other units (that I'm pretty sure only 1000 points of them are going to be 100% necessary to be killed) to win the game.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Beliman

[Marcvs]

Just now, Aeryenn said:

And what if Kragnos walks around your chaff, deals 15 mw to your crucial unit, then deals 15 more to another 3" away? And then comes his friends and finish the job? GG turn 1. Of course it might turn differently and he will be stuck fighting with some blobs. But maybe he will basically destroy 1/3 of your army turn 1 if he charges where he wanted to.

just as a good example of how to win against an unkillable centrepiece I have loved this game of Yetis (yeah, those yetis) vs Archaon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n02L9NNKhWw

it's an amazing game of Age of Sigmar all around so worth a watch in general but particularly relevant to the present discussion (and Kragnos brings less to the table than Archaon)

 

[PJetski]

Just now, MothmanDraws said:

Probably the most interesting thing on his warscroll is calling terrain "defensible " with authors note basically saying "garrison counts as defensible terrain" which points to that rule from 40k for terrain is 99% coming over 

There are all sorts of interesting tidbits in his wascroll:

• The "defensible terrain" as you mentioned
• DRAKE keyword that does not belong to any existing unit
• Mentioning Mercenary rules
• Clarification on "endless spell ability" rather than just stating "endless spell"

Now that I look at it again, I think the rules for including him in an army require an errata?

When you pick an allegiance you become that army. For example, if you pick STORMCAST ETERNALS you have a STORMCAST ETERNALS army and not an ORDER army, so you can use the STORMCAST ETERNALS allegiance abilities and not the ORDER allegiance abilities. So it would seem that Kragnos can only be included in a "DESTRUCTION army" and not an IRONJAWZ or GLOOMSPITE GITZ army. Somebody correct me if Im wrong about that.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

12 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

I don't know, correct me, but how do you see taking him down? Don't tell me you don't have to and chaff is enough. 10" movement is far from bad. Not having flying might hurt from time to time but most of the time he will wipe out other centerpieces or elites. No allegiance? In my opinion he doesn't need any with such a save and damage output. If somebody deserves the name of one man army it is him. It's my opinion off course and you are welcome to think otherwise.

Looking at the two armies I personally have, neither is especially scared of this guy. Soulblight has screens for days and enough high quality damage to eventually take him down. Cities has lots of high-rend shooting and enough instances of 1d3 mortals to put a sizable dent into him.

And those are not even super hard lists. Just normal lists with good fundentals. I think a lot of lists will incidentally just contain the tools to deal with Kragnos. RIP monster mash players, though.

[zilberfrid]

14 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

I don't know, correct me, but how do you see taking him down? Don't tell me you don't have to and chaff is enough. 10" movement is far from bad. Not having flying might hurt from time to time but most of the time he will wipe out other centerpieces or elites. No allegiance? In my opinion he doesn't need any with such a save and damage output. If somebody deserves the name of one man army it is him. It's my opinion off course and you are welcome to think otherwise.

A 30 group of Sentinel takes him down before he can reach them. Perhaps 20 is enough.

[Aeryenn]

If you all tell he is unplayable over 500 points I'm curious what kind of wonders will gw make with Alarielle to make her playable at 600 points...

Ok, many of you gave good examples but he is far from being bad. I'm sure he will be feared when faced. One good charge of his will win games.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Aeryenn

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

7 minutes ago, MothmanDraws said:

Probably the most interesting thing on his warscroll is calling terrain "defensible " with authors note basically saying "garrison counts as defensible terrain" which points to that rule from 40k for terrain is 99% coming over 

What rule is that?

[Whitefang]

4 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

And what if Kragnos walks around your chaff, deals 15 mw to your crucial unit, then deals 15 more to another 3" away?

He can not

Throwing some good horde infantries on him and that’s it. He can not deal large amount of mortal wounds without a charge on non-monster units

He also can’t retreat and charge or run and charge, so he will just stuck there.

[AngryPanda]

j

Edited May 24, 2021 by AngryPanda

[Feii]

7 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

And what if Kragnos walks around your chaff, deals 15 mw to your crucial unit, then deals 15 more to another 3" away? And then comes his friends and finish the job? GG turn 1. Of course it might turn differently and he will be stuck fighting with some blobs. But maybe he will basically destroy 1/3 of your army turn 1 if he charges where he wanted to.

then you didnt screen him properly. how can he walk around your chaff with 10M at the highest bracket no run adn charge? and your crucial unit is not a monster (on average) and if it is why did you put it 3 inches behind the chaff?  Screen properly.