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Posted (edited)

I am still on board with the idea of giving Aelves their own Grand Alliance. It reduces the order bloat and would make most of the alliances similar sizes. Also Order could still field elves through Cities which would work independently from this hypothetical alliance. 

As for Destruction proper. I think it is really interesting that there is little in the way of rumoured factions beyond two possible Goblin armies. Grotbag Scuttlers have a lot of dedicated fans who have already made custom armies. Ever since Rippa's Snarlfangs release I have seen folks clamouring for a dedicated Gitmob release. I would normally expect these to be enfolded into a single army or released as expansions of Gloomspite in the future but something about these armies seem like they could work as stand-alones.

I have stated many times that the aesthetic and play style of Idoneth and Fyreslayers would have made them interesting additions to destruction but their current lore does not make either of them the best fit. I also think an army of classical witches would make a cool destruction army and I would love an army of riderless wild dragons. I feel a lot of people want Fimir but I feel that they are somewhat underdeveloped conceptually and might feature as part of a larger swamp themed army (might work with my idea for a classical witch army). 

Edited by Neverchosen

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Posted (edited)

From the Gotrek and Mortal Wounds discussion, a lot of the wording needs to be better. If I made an instruction that has different functions with naming as similar as the whole damage/wound mess, I'd have very angry users.

English has a lot of different words, use them, and have descriptions match the effect (like, mortal wounds, which need not be mortal at all).

Making wording clearer would help a lot. I would also like less rules that affect an opponent paywalled in battletomes, but that's not the direction GW seems to be taking.

Edited by zilberfrid
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5 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

I am still on board with the idea of giving Aelves their own Grand Alliance. It reduces the order bloat and would make most of the alliances similar sizes. Also Order could still field elves through Cities which would work independently from this hypothetical alliance. 

As for Destruction proper. I think it is really interesting that there is little in the way of rumoured factions beyond two possible Goblin armies. Grotbag Scuttlers have a lot of dedicated fans who have already made custom armies. Ever since Rippa's Snarlfangs release I have seen folks clamouring for a dedicated Gitmob release. I would normally expect these to be enfolded into a single army or released as expansions of Gloomspite in the future but something about these armies seem like they could work as stand-alones.

I have stated many times that the aesthetic and play style of Idoneth and Fyreslayers would have made them interesting additions to destruction but their current lore does not make either of them the best fit. I also think an army of classical witches would make a cool destruction army and I would love an army of riderless wild dragons. I feel a lot of people want Fimir but I feel that they are somewhat underdeveloped conceptually and might feature as part of a larger swamp themed army (might work with my idea for a classical witch army). 

I think gitmob and Grotback could get an Orruk warclans style book, with two separate allegiances, and then a little waaagh! allegiance. Honestly based on how well I've heard the gloomspite line went, I think it might be possible that the destruction faction at the forefront of the next edition could be this new goblin faction, with the starter set focusing on one half, and the initial release covering the other, catching both nostalgic players and those hyped for the new AoS style.

The obvious choice would be ironjawz but Ironjawz wouldn't expand well, there's only a couple potential units you could add to the army without all the units feeling samey or breaking the focus of the army. Warclans would probably get expanded by the creation of a new clan, if/when it happens.

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it would be interesting if they increase the synergy of allied units into armies, rather than feeling like you're being punished as they don't get allegiance abilities. that would open up the space to create much smaller factions that thematically (or for practical reasons) aren't designed as full standalone factions (but can be expanded upon at a later date).

you could look at Sons of Behemat as tilting that way, they're what 4 warscrolls (and 2 kits). sure there will be people running pure SoB armies because it'll be LULZ but they'll probably see most action allied into armies, so hopefully they make up for the lack of AA in that case in some other way.

Grotbag Scuttlers could potentially work well like that too. Maybe just 2 or 3 units to start, like 2  airships and 1 kind of marine style pirate raiders, eventually they could be expanded into a whole army but they could start off like that with rules that make them work particularly well as allies to certain factions.

It would free up the design team to do lots more interesting, weird stuff that just needs a couple of kits.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

I am still on board with the idea of giving Aelves their own Grand Alliance. It reduces the order bloat and would make most of the alliances similar sizes. Also Order could still field elves through Cities which would work independently from this hypothetical alliance. 

As for Destruction proper. I think it is really interesting that there is little in the way of rumoured factions beyond two possible Goblin armies. Grotbag Scuttlers have a lot of dedicated fans who have already made custom armies. Ever since Rippa's Snarlfangs release I have seen folks clamouring for a dedicated Gitmob release. I would normally expect these to be enfolded into a single army or released as expansions of Gloomspite in the future but something about these armies seem like they could work as stand-alones.

I have stated many times that the aesthetic and play style of Idoneth and Fyreslayers would have made them interesting additions to destruction but their current lore does not make either of them the best fit. I also think an army of classical witches would make a cool destruction army and I would love an army of riderless wild dragons. I feel a lot of people want Fimir but I feel that they are somewhat underdeveloped conceptually and might feature as part of a larger swamp themed army (might work with my idea for a classical witch army). 

Part of me is hoping for a Wild Tribesman Faction for Destruction. With Skin changers such as Werewolves and Werebears alongside larger Beasts such as AOS versions of Hippos and Elephants, maybe bipedal heavy versions of these that want to reclaim nature, almost Destructions answer to BOC.

Edited by KingBrodd
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3 minutes ago, JPjr said:

it would be interesting if they increase the synergy of allied units into armies, rather than feeling like you're being punished as they don't get allegiance abilities. that would open up the space to create much smaller factions that thematically (or for practical reasons) aren't designed as full standalone factions (but can be expanded upon at a later date).

I'd be for that. Heck, i hope AoS3 makes the standard Grand Allegiance abilities more powerful so people will wnt to use them competitively.

Nothing's better than seeing a mixed force or proper grand allegiance army. It looks awesome seeing so many different races working together to survive in their particular realms like they do in lore and makes it more enjoyable for new hobbyists that want to expand their armies in multiple directions.

As for Destruction they could expand on the Skybasha Ironjawz for the ones making pirate airships (scrapfleets), that'd go well with Grotbags for two types of greenskin airfleets.

Also from Realmgate Wars the more powerful Ironjawz commanded Scrapcogs in the Sea of Bones which are gigantic paddle wheel ship fortress hybrids with shaman crow nests so they can cast magic shielding on the cogs to protect them from attacks and the giant Grindworms that lurk in the deserts.

Would make a great centerpiece for them.

On new factions I would like the draconic Sanskrit creatures who are empire builders around the Sea of Bones, evil versions of the Aetar eagle people (probably giant vulture people) and a repentant Ogroids & Fomoroids force that  threw off chaos' shackles and came back to Gorkamorka.

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8 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

The obvious choice would be ironjawz but Ironjawz wouldn't expand well, there's only a couple potential units you could add to the army without all the units feeling samey or breaking the focus of the army. 

Well I don't really agree with this, however they currently have a problem with Ardboyz and Brutes being samey in game, even though they only have 3 units to choose from! There is so much you could do with big nasty Orruks who likes to beat both beasts and armor plates into submission. With Gordrakk laying siege, adding a warmachine to Ironjawz would be awesome, anyone who played WoW and saw warmachines from the Iron Horde would have an idea here, like a broken and whipped mawkrusha like beast having a crude mega shotgun strapped to its back basically, or a Megaboss in a grunta chariot, to fill that gap between foot hero and Behemoth. 

The current Warclans book was a great disappointment to me, none of the factions got anything new, not even terrain, and sacrificed a more diverse offering of sub factions for both IJ and BS to get a combo allegiance which is still not good for combining these armies, as every single spell, ability and warscroll has no synergy with the other faction. To make things worse they even overlapped in function. Orruks and foot with shields, Orruks on boars with hand weapons or spears... 

No despite the rules being decently strong, orruks as a race is in a dire spot compared to the rest of destruction. The theme of both Ogors and their hunger+everwinter is so much stronger, and gitz with their musrooms and bad moon binds it all together. Orruk warclans feel like someone took a very limited range and an old range with just enough life in to not scrap with the other greenskinz and then taped them together and slapped som vague lore on top. I don't even play them, but I was really entertained by the lore of the gitz, while the warclans is just so generic it hurts, with barely anything interesting going on in an overall narrative.

Argh tore up that wound again, time to patch it up and drown the sorrows. At least the new underworlds warband of brutes look sweet, altthough 3 brutes cant possibly be useful in AoS, they are hopefully a sign of things to come...

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I think that Ironjawz should at the very least have a heavy chariot (possibly a hero option) and a massive catapult and maybe a battering ram.

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Posted (edited)

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/16/warhammer-underworlds-the-2020-road-map/

Underworlds Roadmap

Next two Warbands will be coming in August, a Multiplayer Expansion in September, a completely new kind of free expansion in November (This will be a true game-changer, involving brand-new game mechanics like player health pools – defend yourself as well as your fighters!) and Season 4 in December

Edited by Matrindur
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19 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

Part of me is hoping for a Wild Tribesman Faction for Destruction. With Skin changers such as Werewolves and Werebears alongside larger Beasts such as AOS version s of Hippos and Elephants, maybe bipedal heavy versions of these that want to reclaim nature, almost Destructions answer to BOC.

That would be an instant buy for me !!, always struggled about what be a good addition for destruction as most things I can think of are to similar to the current factions. This however wild faction with shape shifters and the like would be great with endless possibilities imho

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Just now, Scurvydog said:

Well I don't really agree with this, however they currently have a problem with Ardboyz and Brutes being samey in game, even though they only have 3 units to choose from! There is so much you could do with big nasty Orruks who likes to beat both beasts and armor plates into submission. With Gordrakk laying siege, adding a warmachine to Ironjawz would be awesome, anyone who played WoW and saw warmachines from the Iron Horde would have an idea here, like a broken and whipped mawkrusha like beast having a crude mega shotgun strapped to its back basically, or a Megaboss in a grunta chariot, to fill that gap between foot hero and Behemoth. 

The current Warclans book was a great disappointment to me, none of the factions got anything new, not even terrain, and sacrificed a more diverse offering of sub factions for both IJ and BS to get a combo allegiance which is still not good for combining these armies, as every single spell, ability and warscroll has no synergy with the other faction. To make things worse they even overlapped in function. Orruks and foot with shields, Orruks on boars with hand weapons or spears... 

No despite the rules being decently strong, orruks as a race is in a dire spot compared to the rest of destruction. The theme of both Ogors and their hunger+everwinter is so much stronger, and gitz with their musrooms and bad moon binds it all together. Orruk warclans feel like someone took a very limited range and an old range with just enough life in to not scrap with the other greenskinz and then taped them together and slapped som vague lore on top. I don't even play them, but I was really entertained by the lore of the gitz, while the warclans is just so generic it hurts, with barely anything interesting going on in an overall narrative.

Argh tore up that wound again, time to patch it up and drown the sorrows. At least the new underworlds warband of brutes look sweet, altthough 3 brutes cant possibly be useful in AoS, they are hopefully a sign of things to come...

Ironjawz are basically strictly opposed to using ranged weapons in any major capacity, so while Ironjawz themed war machines would look awesome, they wouldn't fit into the faction thematically unless they were being crewed by grots or something, at which point you might as well make that a faction (Gitmob/grotback). If you were adding "siege" units to Ironjawz it would need to fit their theme, brutes with heavier armor and shields that walk through enemy fire to get to them (3+ save, 2+ when not in combat since they use their shield to block and not bash), a Grunta chariot, that is pushed from the rear and the front is a big metal plate used to ram into stuff that curves over the gruntas to protect them, and maybe some new shaman/boss variants. The other issue is Ironjawz already have the tool they need to smash down city gates and stuff in the maw krusha, and if you need a bigger thing it'll need to be something like Gordrakk's battering ram, which is more of a narrative piece than a useful unit.

From my perspective adding these things doesn't really expand Ironjawz in an interesting way, even if the models would be awesome, since Ironjawz already covers everything they need, sure a grunta boss would be cool, but it doesn't expand the army, its purely driven from a game perspective. Ironjawz is a very "complete" faction given its current lore, and expanding it doesn't seem like it would add anything to the army. This is why I think a new clan would be the way to go since I feel the same about bonesplitterz.

I also disagree about the themes of Orruks being weak thematically. Ironjawz are pragmatic to a fault driven by their experience, everything that they didn't need was scrapped so they could be better at what they do, smashing and bashing. Its simple, but thats why it fits Ironjawz and that is the appeal. Ironjawz are a fist, united in goal and purpose. I won't go into bonesplitterz, but the lore is very interesting (at least to me) and fits them well, although they could use some updated models/endless spells.

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34 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

 

I'd be for that. Heck, i hope AoS3 makes the standard Grand Allegiance abilities more powerful so people will wnt to use them competitively.

Nothing's better than seeing a mixed force or proper grand allegiance army. It looks awesome seeing so many different races working together to survive in their particular realms like they do in lore and makes it more enjoyable for new hobbyists that want to expand their armies in multiple directions.

 

You guys seem to miss the whole point of the design.

As more we  specialize our army as more powerful it get's. The trade is a lack of diversity.

This goes both ways. Lot's of unit options available  come with the lack of special powers.

 

All this is made on purpose. If we make Armies with lot's of unit choices as powerful as factions, we don't need factions anymore

and go back to 4 books.

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

I think that Ironjawz should at the very least have a heavy chariot (possibly a hero option) and a massive catapult and maybe a battering ram.

I think they almost definitely will get a Siege Weapon soon.

 

34 minutes ago, Lowki said:

That would be an instant buy for me !!, always struggled about what be a good addition for destruction as most things I can think of are to similar to the current factions. This however wild faction with shape shifters and the like would be great with endless possibilities imho

Thanks mate!! 

35 minutes ago, Matrindur said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/16/warhammer-underworlds-the-2020-road-map/

Underworlds Roadmap

Next two Warbands will be coming in August, a Multiplayer Expansion in September, a completely new kind of free expansion in November (This will be a true game-changer, involving brand-new game mechanics like player health pools – defend yourself as well as your fighters!) and Season 4 in December

Good lord that teaser image for Season 4!! Could that be just awesome artwork or the skull of a Warband/Faction to come? Also fantastic news that we will have some releases in August.

Edited by KingBrodd

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I'm excited! :D

5 minutes ago, Kurrilino said:

You guys seem to miss the whole point of the design.

As more we  specialize our army as more powerful it get's. The trade is a lack of diversity.

This goes both ways. Lot's of unit options available  come with the lack of special powers.

 

All this is made on purpose. If we make Armies with lot's of unit choices as powerful as factions, we don't need factions anymore

and go back to 4 books.

Very true.

I suppose it is the "2.0 Grand Alliance" books like Legions of Nagash and Cities of Sigmar that make those GA combinations rarer on the tourney lists just by compromise.

24 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

From my perspective adding these things doesn't really expand Ironjawz in an interesting way, even if the models would be awesome, since Ironjawz already covers everything they need, sure a grunta boss would be cool, but it doesn't expand the army, its purely driven from a game perspective. Ironjawz is a very "complete" faction given its current lore, and expanding it doesn't seem like it would add anything to the army. This is why I think a new clan would be the way to go since I feel the same about bonesplitterz.

Yeah, I think realm clans would be the way to go like Orruks from Chamon on Metal beasts or a twisted light one from Hysh with spirits they wrangle from their moons as a challenge to the Grots. Da bad moon & darkness vs their light moon spirits.

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2 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

Ironjawz are basically strictly opposed to using ranged weapons in any major capacity, 

Where did you get this from?

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3 hours ago, JPjr said:

I think it's a bit like DnD, 5th edition has been around for ages now but why spook all those new fans and risk a tedious edition war. If/when DnD 6th comes (Q3/4 next year just before the DnD film drops would be my bedt guess) I imagine it'll just a new set of the 3 core books with some key but not game changing edits.

Just some of the best of the new Unearthed Arcana stuff that's been introduced added in and stuff that's clearly not worked subtly excised, my bet for a big change would be on something like alignments getting radically changed or ditched, TBH I doubt it would even be labelled as the 6th edition.

Likewise GW can look at AoS and 40K right now and say holy ****** we're going gangbusters, why mess with this. we just need to make little changes here and there, there's plenty of design space to change the game without messing with the basics of how it plays. Just changing things like how points are scored can dramatically change the nature of the game without anyone needing to learn a whole new set of rules or have their army instantly invalidated.

The comparison to D&D is interesting, but while the situations are similar, I don't think GW has quite as much to fear from a new edition of their respective games as WotC does.

Games workshop very much needs the game to keep evolving, because every few months they want to put out an army book with new rules, new minis and new stuff to draw people into the game. They want brand new factions, but they also want to update the older factions to keep happy the people who only play them. They don't expect players to buy every book, or every newly released model. Instead they have to balance their support for multiple little sub lines. They know that people will  complain bitterly even in the cases where they get it more or less right! When there is a big wait between updates, people are more likely to drift off.

As a result I don't think they want to release one definitive battletome which will work for a faction across multiple slight variations of the core rules. That would be less work, and introduce fewer complications. However if you only play skaven, you'll wait for the skaven book, rather than rushing out to buy the lumineth one. (I know a lot of people play more than one faction, but how many play more than four or five, how many play all of them? the answer is very few people, and the vast majority do not.)

So GW kind of have to have a fast codex cycle, so that it swings back around to each faction in due course, even if the support that faction gets is pretty cursory and didn't really warrant a new release. Updating stuff to a new edition, even if its just a minor update is the perfect excuse to drop a model or two and say "look you've had your update, now be quiet for a couple of years."

Now to digress into D&D for far too long, they have a very different model. For a start, while they sell minis, they are not a major part of their business model (despite WotC's best efforts). Most people won't buy more than one or two, and so the brand lives and dies on its book releases. That means that I suspect they have very different criteria for whether a book is successful than GW does. In the past they had a similar model, where they would release lots of splat books very rapidly, until the point where they had basically done everything for an edition, and the only way to get most of their player base to keep buying books was to burn everything down and start from scratch. However to say that they've been burnt by that model is an understatement. WotC still remembers losing the 4e-pathfinder edition war, and aren't going to want to make that mistake again. Furthermore they have a boom in popularity and a flourishing 3rd party industry again. A lot of the folks who have gotten into D&D within the last few years have yet to live through an edition war, and so might not be too keen when it does happen. The many, many people releasing 3rd party stuff through the DM's guild certainly won't be!

Unlike GW I think they no longer see starting a new cycle as an opportunity to get people to buy a load of new books. If you play a warhammer army, then you probably will buy the new codex pretty rapidly. However there isn't the same "must have" feeling for most of the stuff WotC puts out. They release big adventure paths faster than people can play them, so there is never any shortage of that sort of content. They have also massively dialled back on both their splat books and campaign setting resources. We are lucky to get one of each a year, which is a radical change from the days when there was something new every month.

The stuff they are putting out, while not edition neutral is also a lot more "edition resistant" big adventure paths will stay classics long after the rules change, with only minor updates needed, and it will be easy enough to update the content of the three or so sourcebooks that they have put out whenever 6e comes. I think they are much more likely to try to keep that material relevant when they do bring out a new set of books, rather than radically reinventing things.

GW is much more like the position TSR was in in the 90s, when they had balkanised their fan base across lots of different settings, so they had to release a new Dark Sun book every few months, because the Dark Sun players weren't going to be buying the Forgotten Realms books and vis versa. Nowadays D&D can put out one setting book per setting for an edition, confident that that will see their players through, since that is not the focus of their business model any more. But for GW, they are always going to need to support all the different armies, over and over again.

So that's all a long way to say that I think Warhammer editions will continue to be more radical, even if by rights they would be more stable if they weren't.

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WTB Ironjawz 'Blademongers' that are loaded up with extra weapons and have a ranged throwing attack, but if they use it too much it starts to lower their melee attacks because they run out of blades to throw!

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Posted (edited)

Gw I used to think did support multiple sub factions and otherrlines but in both aos and 40k its space marines sigmarines andthen all the rest. We havent had an order human army release in 8 years

Looking at the website destruction badly needs a new faction but it will come with a caveat of stormcast I think

Edited by Icegoat

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If a hypothetical new starter with SCE & Jawz came about it'd be nice to see the liberator and judicator kits updated instead of new unit x that is damn near the same as old unit y.

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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/16/warhammer-underworlds-the-2020-road-map/

I think the Underworld article is much more interesting for the article itself: it's a roadmap. An actual roadmap, not leaked but made by GW itself. They are telling us, willingly, 6 months in advance, exactly what will be released... with something close to a release date. What is happening??? Is this the beginning of a new era of... communication? Could the era of shady rumours and skulduggery be at an end?

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22 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

Where did you get this from?

From the battletome pg 5: "Though some Orruks can be quite ingenious when it comes to new ways of bashing, clubbing or impaling their victims, they see things like blackpowder weapons, well made castle walls, and duardin flying machines as 'cheatin'" (this statement is about all orruks, but just rules out anything more advanced than bows and maybe the crudest of artillery)

pg 8:"These Orruks epitomise the side of the greenskin psyche that is brutal rather than cunning. They favour raw strength and resilience over all that complicated brainy stuff they call 'finkin'"
"The weapons and armor of the ironjawz are crude but effective, much like the orruks that use them. Simple weapons of iron and steel are popular"
"Not all are simple bludgeons and axes, for the rough ingenuity of the orruk manifests in the creation of their most prized weapons - some have crude blade-breakers saw teeth or claws that can pull an enemys' guard wide open before the killer blow slams in"
"The ironjawz do not have smiths as such, nor do they trust grots to fashion their equipment for them - instead they batter and punch the metal into shape"


Its not directly stated they are opposed to using ranged weapons but if you read between the lines it paints a pretty clear picture that not only do they lack the desire to use ranged weapons, but also likely the ability to craft them, and even if they could it would only be the crudest and simplest possible, even bows would likely be out of the smithing ability of the ironjawz, since it would take a more delicate hand to craft one, let alone the ammunition.

 

The rules also reflect this mentality being that every allegiance ability either helps in combat, or helps get to combat. 

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Minis by Night said:

I think the Underworld article is much more interesting for the article itself: it's a roadmap. An actual roadmap, not leaked but made by GW itself. They are telling us, willingly, 6 months in advance, exactly what will be released... with something close to a release date. What is happening??? Is this the beginning of a new era of... communication? Could the era of shady rumours and skulduggery be at an end?

well I think it's probably more that Season 4 would/should, I assume, have been released around late August and if/when that rolled around with no sign of it there'd be an outpouring of "OMG GW are dropping Underworlds, it's a dead game, I'm burning my cards and smashing my minis"

though they did also do this with Necromunda (though c19 messed it all up) so it could be a new thing for the specialist games, it would make more sense with those rather than the big core systems.

54 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

So that's all a long way to say that I think Warhammer editions will continue to be more radical, even if by rights they would be more stable if they weren't.

Hmmm. whilst I certainly don't disagree with all your points this is the internet so I'm going to... or at least some.

See the way I look at it they've got the core rules pretty refined and defined now, sure a bit of a polish here, some new wording there and the like but personally I reckon (of course with absolutely nothing to go on but gut feeling and just looking at what they have done) they want to keep things down to 4 or so pages for the main ruleset and keep that free.

Then they shift all the complexity and janky stuff onto the battletomes.

You'll be able to dl the core rules for free and the core book will essentially be a lore book, a lovely looking big chonky boi to sit on the shelf and be 95% fluff with the core rules (perhaps expanded a bit but just to give clearer examples) and a few extra bits for narrative players and realm rules or whatever, so people with no interest in the fluff still want it.

But it's main function will be to set the scene for the next story arc and introduce the world to new players.

Then we get a new round of battletomes, which again are half if not more fluff anyway advancing the storyline and giving every faction that needs it a general boost, updating warscrolls, giving them some abilities than BTs released before them might have introduced and introducing their own janky new rules that make them different and powerful for a few weeks.

I reckon even with the core rules shifting slightly most people will still buy a new battletome every 3 years say, as it means their army gets a power boost and most probably a few new models.

Edited by JPjr
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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

From the battletome pg 5: "Though some Orruks can be quite ingenious when it comes to new ways of bashing, clubbing or impaling their victims, they see things like blackpowder weapons, well made castle walls, and duardin flying machines as 'cheatin'" (this statement is about all orruks, but just rules out anything more advanced than bows and maybe the crudest of artillery)

pg 8:"These Orruks epitomise the side of the greenskin psyche that is brutal rather than cunning. They favour raw strength and resilience over all that complicated brainy stuff they call 'finkin'"
"The weapons and armor of the ironjawz are crude but effective, much like the orruks that use them. Simple weapons of iron and steel are popular"
"Not all are simple bludgeons and axes, for the rough ingenuity of the orruk manifests in the creation of their most prized weapons - some have crude blade-breakers saw teeth or claws that can pull an enemys' guard wide open before the killer blow slams in"
"The ironjawz do not have smiths as such, nor do they trust grots to fashion their equipment for them - instead they batter and punch the metal into shape"


Its not directly stated they are opposed to using ranged weapons but if you read between the lines it paints a pretty clear picture that not only do they lack the desire to use ranged weapons, but also likely the ability to craft them, and even if they could it would only be the crudest and simplest possible, even bows would likely be out of the smithing ability of the ironjawz, since it would take a more delicate hand to craft one, let alone the ammunition.

 

The rules also reflect this mentality being that every allegiance ability either helps in combat, or helps get to combat. 

I think that a unit of Brutes/warmachines with chained spears could be awesome. What's better than running to a fight? Pull the fight to you. 

Edited by Beliman
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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

First and foremost I want to be clear that I agree with the underlying sentiment of your post -- that historically GW has grossly underinvested in game design to the detriment of their products....

In my opinion, each an every year has seen substantial improvements in the quality of AOS as a game. I'd definitely love to see things improve more quickly and consistently, but it is what it is and I'm hopeful for the future.

 

 

Just quoting parts of your post to not spam the thread. =}

 

I am fully aware that posting criticism in this Forum is neither wanted nor heard since most people come here for the fun an nothing serious and that’s fine.

back to your post: This AoS year (GHB to GHB) has arguably been the biggest low for AoS since I‘ve joined the game due to super game breaking rules and phase-denial shenanigans as well as absurd power-differences among armies (Slaanesh‘s last struggles, Immortal Ossiarchs on the rampage, Slaves to weakness, Orruk Dum-Dun-Clans, Tzeentch‘s pyromaniacs, Sera-DenyYourMagicPhase-Phon, „SoWhereAreMyReworkedWarscrolls“-Eternals and lately Lumineth Cheese-Lords).

I don‘t see how AoS is improving at all especially after the recent GHB release.

A general note:
In my opinion criticism and accepting criticism is of utmost importance: If people keep on defending/ignoring or not wanting to hear opinions that GW is failing to deliver a good product AoS is going to fall apart due to a lack of rules-quality. It will be those people’s fault if the game will, at one point be driven against a wall. 
How is G-Dubs supposed to know that they need to improve if all they read is praise and defense of their new products? Why would they want to improve, if everything is just fine? Making GW listen to any feedback at all seems to be way too hard already because let‘s face it: They could put out the worst product and enough people would still buy it for GW to make a nice profit.

 

Edited by JackStreicher
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