The Rumour Thread

[Flippy]

40 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

It's the first time this ability appears on an actually popular unit. The rule was bad before, slapping it onto more Units makes matters worse.

Are Windchargers more popular than Big Stabbas? But that's just one point - the other being that the rule is not bad as long as: (i) you pay for the ability; (ii) meaningful wards (5+ and better) are not prevalent. For now, the second condition is met and we'll see about the first one.

[Rachmani]

53 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

It's the first time this ability appears on an actually popular unit. The rule was bad before, slapping it onto more Units makes matters worse. - AoS has been copying way too many rules from 40K anyways. Yet 40K is a prime example of how one should not write rules.

 

 

I‘d disagree.

Not that 40k isn’t a bad example of how rules should not be written - it is!

But it could also be a perfect testing ground.

[Mattrulesok]

40 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

It's the first time this ability appears on an actually popular unit. The rule was bad before, slapping it onto more Units makes matters worse. - AoS has been copying way too many rules from 40K anyways. Yet 40K is a prime example of how one should not write rules.

 

 

What metric are you using to measure that Lumineth roo riders are more popular than dreadscythe harridans, Sigvald and the entirety of bonesplitters? 

 

And ultimately there is no problem with this rule as long as it is used correctly but this is on an expensive unit with a short range attack that has fairly soft defense so it seems pretty well balanced to me. In fact almost every book that has come out has been pretty well balanced with good rules so maybe it's not worth screaming into the void, especially when you're not playing the game anyway

[RyantheFett]

38 minutes ago, madmac said:

Bro, Windchargers are not a popular unit. Literally no one uses them ever. Now maybe they'll be better in the new tome, but as for all of LRL history up to this point, they've been the polar opposite of popular.

That what makes the LRL book so interesting. By the end, most LRL list were just archers, spearman, and a few heroes. 

Kangaoos being cruise missiles and cows being objective holders that don't want to move may give them some play time now. Hopefully the dawnriders, swordsmen, ballista, and bannerlord can also get some love!

[Voltek]

GW egging us on or?

[HollowHills]

34 minutes ago, Voltek said:

GW egging us on or?

It's a Hurakan behind a rock. There are no new LRL models coming or planned in the next few years.

[novakai]

Windcharger unfortunately were nerfed when battalions went away as the combo of that and the city made them ok and annoying at the same time. they were probably a bit overshadow by the Foxes that had movement shinnanigans for days that came in the second wave

[Overread]

I wonder, they are fighting against vampires in that diorama. Could that be sneaky new vampire model going to ambush them from behind!!

[novakai]

1 hour ago, OkayestDM said:

I like that the ability is close range and can only work against a hero who has actively attacked the Gaunt Summoner in some way. Yes, it can ruin somebody's day, but the opposing player can avoid it by just throwing units at the GS instead of heroes, or just killing them outright (they're a fairly fragile hero, as I recall.)

yeah, but the solution of killing a fragile backline hero is often a luxury of armies with actual range abilities, and that is why that solution is not always accessible if people know their screens and hero protections.

not complain the ability but Tzeentch always seems to produce feel bad in casual to mid setting

 

[Enoby]

To be honest, I see the Gaunt Summoner rule as more akin to the Mighty Lord of Khorne's axe rule - the one that auto slays on a 5+ should the hero be wounded. Realistically, it's very unlikely, but the use is more like a mind game. You see the Mighty Lord of Khorne out in the open and still you think twice about trying to kill them in combat with a hero, because on the off chance you get unlucky then your hero is totally gone, no matter how strong they were. 

With the Gaunt Summoner, it's unlikely to go off as they need to survive until the end of that phase to use it - and unless they really buff the summoner's defences, that's unlikely to happen. 

With the Khorne Lord, it's unlikely because 3/3/3/-1/D3, and then a 5+ isn't exactly an attack befitting of the title "mighty". 

It's less that it's a viable strategy to hope either goes off, but rather the pressing question to your opponent of "dare you try?". That fear of very bad luck is likely to keep heroes like those pretty safe from other heroes. 

[MitGas]

*happy bird noises* 

[Ogregut]

1 hour ago, novakai said:

yeah, but the solution of killing a fragile backline hero is often a luxury of armies with actual range abilities, and that is why that solution is not always accessible if people know their screens and hero protections.

not complain the ability but Tzeentch always seems to produce feel bad in casual to mid setting

 

I don't get the feel bad  NPE from rules or abilities. Ive played in quite a few tournaments and every opponent has always made me aware of any abilities out of the norm. 

It's then up to me to decide if I want go ahead with my plan. 

NPE I've found comes from playing againest cheaters, bad losers and rules whiners. 

I love the guant summoner rule, it's very characterful and makes gives the basis of great stories and gaming tales. 

Imagine the brave stormcast knight fighting past countless horrors, warp flame licking her armour, she swings her sword at the gaunt summoner looking to cut the head from the snake. 

The sword connects and the knight begins to give a victory cry when suddenly the figure in front of her shimmers and disappears revealing the real gaunt summoner behind its illusion. 

With a click of its fingers, the summoner transports the knight to its silver tower. 

The knight looks around, confused. Instead of standing on the battlefield she now finds herself in a giant hall of mirrors each reflection showing a different twisted version of the knight. 

Gritting her teeth and saying a prayer to sigmar the knight vows revenge on the summoner as she begins her search for a way out. 

 

[Rachmani]

30 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

I don't get the feel bad  NPE from rules or abilities. Ive played in quite a few tournaments and every opponent has always made me aware of any abilities out of the norm. 

It's then up to me to decide if I want go ahead with my plan. 

NPE I've found comes from playing againest cheaters, bad losers and rules whiners. 

I love the guant summoner rule, it's very characterful and makes gives the basis of great stories and gaming tales. 

Imagine the brave stormcast knight fighting past countless horrors, warp flame licking her armour, she swings her sword at the gaunt summoner looking to cut the head from the snake. 

The sword connects and the knight begins to give a victory cry when suddenly the figure in front of her shimmers and disappears revealing the real gaunt summoner behind its illusion. 

With a click of its fingers, the summoner transports the knight to its silver tower. 

The knight looks around, confused. Instead of standing on the battlefield she now finds herself in a giant hall of mirrors each reflection showing a different twisted version of the knight. 

Gritting her teeth and saying a prayer to sigmar the knight vows revenge on the summoner as she begins her search for a way out. 

 

This is the way.

In fact each time that happens you should have to play a game of „Warhammer Quest: The Silver Tower“ in between your tournament matches to determine if it’s still the same Knight Questor or if she remains trapped and you‘d have to rename her before playing the next match.

I‘m sold!

[JackStreicher]

3 hours ago, Mattrulesok said:

the entirety of bonesplitter

you really need a metric for that, really? 
I've never even once seen (live) a player play bonesplitters, ever.

[Ganigumo]

4 hours ago, Mattrulesok said:

Tomorrow's article is going to be interesting, if it's gargants we might see them all arrive same time?

 

Although I think more likely just tzeentch and Lumineth 

We can get 4 battletomes on one day, and then absolutely nothing until the STD box at the end of the year.

25 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

I don't get the feel bad  NPE from rules or abilities. Ive played in quite a few tournaments and every opponent has always made me aware of any abilities out of the norm. 

It's then up to me to decide if I want go ahead with my plan. 

NPE I've found comes from playing againest cheaters, bad losers and rules whiners. 

I love the guant summoner rule, it's very characterful and makes gives the basis of great stories and gaming tales. 

Imagine the brave stormcast knight fighting past countless horrors, warp flame licking her armour, she swings her sword at the gaunt summoner looking to cut the head from the snake. 

The sword connects and the knight begins to give a victory cry when suddenly the figure in front of her shimmers and disappears revealing the real gaunt summoner behind its illusion. 

With a click of its fingers, the summoner transports the knight to its silver tower. 

The knight looks around, confused. Instead of standing on the battlefield she now finds herself in a giant hall of mirrors each reflection showing a different twisted version of the knight. 

Gritting her teeth and saying a prayer to sigmar the knight vows revenge on the summoner as she begins her search for a way out. 

 

Negative Play Experience has a pretty subjective definition. Some people can have a blast getting smashed on the table, and other people are salty that their 70 point chaff unit dies when they ran it into a hammer.

When it comes to rules an abilities, NPE generally translates into "non-interactive" and/or "stops me from playing the game" (or as close to a shared definition as you can get). Some good examples are:

• Total Eclipse in Lumineth: mapwide area of effect, lumineth has some good wizards, and many armies don't have a lot of CP to work with. It can essentially prevent the other player from using command abilities without counterplay options. Ogors are a good example of an army this hurts badly. Poor CP generation and bad wizards.
• Sentinels: Shooting is often said to be NPE, as its non-interactive, but Sentinels definitely cross the line as they ignore almost every tool at a player's disposal to protect things from shooting. Mortals mean all out defense does nothing, long range makes positioning away from them a nightmare, and ignoring line of sight means you can't hide behind terrain.
• Wind spirits being unchargeable. If you don't have shooting you can't kill them.
• Khorne Daemon Prince: You can't stop a Command ability, and it shuts down aggression super hard. It can be shot but the armies that are hit hardest aren't using shooting in the first place.

The Gaunt summoner ability probably doesn't fall into NPE. Just because the gaunt summoner is a 5-6 wound hero on a 6+ save. If you're throwing something that can't kill it at it I think this ability is the least of your concerns. The ability is cool but really bad.

 

Just now, JackStreicher said:

you really need a metric for that, really? 
I've never even once seen (live) a player play bonesplitters, ever.

Yeah I'm even incredibly skeptical of the bonesplitterz stats in relation to their power level. I've got a feeling they're just being pushed around by a handful of super skilled players that are just abusing the pre-game move and armywide 4+ ward, but I haven't looked into it too deeply. The playrate for bonesplitterz is one of the lowest in the entire game.

[Rachmani]

1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

Negative Play Experience has a pretty subjective definition. Some people can have a blast getting smashed on the table, and other people are salty that their 70 point chaff unit dies when they ran it into a hammer.

I used to play Empire in WhFB back in the day, among other armies. And, being a big fan of Mortheim, I mean the game that shall not be named, I had two units that got the special treatment. Swordsmen & Irregulars (no idea how they‘re called in english) to be precise and I was very proud of them, back then.

But boy, was the NPE through the roof when some 30 of my beautifully painted & converted (by late 90s early 2000s standards) guys got killed or ran after getting charged by some nameless, storyless, soulless (often grey) goons on horseback (or anything else with a punch).

Edited September 15, 2022 by Rachmani

[Sahrial]

I have very rarely examined and analyzed a few sentences as much as I have these in the last week.

“Reworked for the current edition”

So… not an overhaul. That’s… good ish? I’ve said we need quality improvements rather than an overhaul for forever.

So these might just be quality of life upgrades. We know we got strategies and tactics and hey maybe a fun battalion. That’s all good!

 

Then that next line: “New battle traits”

How new? Reworked old ones or new/new?

”unlock army construction options”

Wait, so… we have options? We’re choosing things? It’s not just default stuff? Our army actually changes beyond choosing a subfaction?

”individual Mawtribes define your horde”

that sounds like subfaction battleline to me. No more flat GB vs BCR general? That would be really cool. Then unit buffs on top of that? Heck yes.

”Field ranks of extra powerful cannon-wielding Leadbelchers”

so leadbelchers will be dope? I love leadbelchers and I want to use them. The baseline is powerful and underguts is EXTRA powerful?

“imbue your Mournfang Packs with unnatural swiftness”

okay see Thunderbellies is my go-to list. My mournfangs are my babies. This is a passive swiftness? Something cool we get no matter what? Not locked behind a spell? Better than run and charge wholly within 12” of board edge? Will the warscroll be better? Will they be worth the points? Should I buy more than the 12 I have??

Finally: “spell lores and prayers for Butchers and Firebellies and Beastclaw Raider Priests, respectively.”

so confirmation the spell lores don’t get sacked/souped like some factions? They still have Butcher Spells and Firebelly Spells, not just Ogor Spells. Could priests be usable? Is that expanded? Will my Thundertusks be worth fielding?

 

i am very excited and very nervous and I want answers.

[Mutton]

Players generally don't like:

- Removing their cool models from the board before they had a chance to do anything (hyper damage or ranged projection)

- The loss of self-determination (non-interactable or "shutdown" mechanics)

NPE results from an overflow or cross-contamination of these instances.

[The World Tree]

That Gaunt Summoner ability is not an NPE. It is a cool (and very rare!) moment. It is a story maker. 

NPE crushes imagination. 

[Mattrulesok]

6 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

you really need a metric for that, really? 
I've never even once seen (live) a player play bonesplitters, ever.

And I've never seen the Roos in play before. I also just played a 40 person tournament with 2 Bonesplitters and 2 Big wagh lists so maybe local scene is not always representative of the global playerbase?

[Chikout]

That mountain complete with thing behind it is in the Teclis broken realms book. It isn't a new model. 

[JackStreicher]

3 hours ago, Mattrulesok said:

And I've never seen the Roos in play before. I also just played a 40 person tournament with 2 Bonesplitters and 2 Big wagh lists so maybe local scene is not always representative of the global playerbase?

Is this how argumentation works? Alright, let me try now!

yeah, I‘ve just played a 360 Person Tournament, and everyone was using Roos 🤦🏼‍♂️🤣

*facepalm*

 

Ganigumo showed you the statistics. 

[Mattrulesok]

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

Is this how argumentation works? Alright, let me try now!

yeah, I‘ve just played a 360 Person Tournament, and everyone was using Roos 🤦🏼‍♂️🤣

*facepalm*

 

Ganigumo showed you the statistics. 

"maybe local scene is not always representative of the global playerbase?"

 

Wow you really got me with my own point!

 

Either way we're moving away from what I originally pointed out. Ignoring wards has existed for 4 years, it's not worth getting up in arms over, especially when you've noted that you don't play anymore so you have 0% chance of running into anything with this rule.

[RuneBrush]

+++ MOD HAT +++

Could we move discussions about tournaments into another thread and keep this loosely rumour/release based please

[Nezzhil]

 

Time to resolve the riddle... It is a tree