The Rumour Thread

[Sception]

It's frustrating, but at least it's mostly just a stormcast problem.  I don't think this is an issue we've had much trouble with in other factions, is it?  I mean, admittedly, I don't have much attention for non-undead factions, so maybe I'm forgetting something.  I guess the 'abhorrant archreagent' was just 'ghoul king 2'....

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, Sception said:

It's frustrating, but at least it's mostly just a stormcast problem.  I don't think this is an issue we've had much trouble with in other factions, is it?  I mean, admittedly, I don't have much attention for non-undead factions, so maybe I'm forgetting something.  I guess the 'abhorrant archreagent' was just 'ghoul king 2'....

I guess Chainrasps and Grimghasts did competitively invalidate Skeletons/Zombies and Graveguard for a while.

I think Stormcast are a special case. Their model range is getting to big and crowded, while other ranges are generally a bit small if anything.

[Gitzdee]

I do wonder whats happening with Nighthaunt models in Gravelords. Any news on that?

[PraetorDragoon]

Just now, Iksdee said:

I do wonder whats happening with Nighthaunt models in Gravelords. Any news on that?

They have their own fancy Battletome: Nighthaunt.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, Iksdee said:

I do wonder whats happening with Nighthaunt models in Gravelords. Any news on that?

That one 4chan leak says they are out in general, but we don't know yet if there will be a replacement for Legions of Grief or a suballegiance that brings them back in.

[Sception]

8 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I guess Chainrasps and Grimghasts did competitively invalidate Skeletons/Zombies and Graveguard for a while.

I think Stormcast are a special case. Their model range is getting to big and crowded, while other ranges are generally a bit small if anything.

yeah, but that was a case of very different units competitively invalidating each other, which happens, and being in the same faction to begin with was kind of an oddball fluke decision on GW's part.  grimghasts were better than grave guard, but in their core concept and aesthetic they weren't just 'grave guard 2, the newer better grave guard'.

But yeah, stormcast range is already too big, and it's definitely a problem.  I don't collect non-undead factions, but while most armies in the game are still at least a little tempting (Idoneth in particular are cool enough that I still might be tempted into starting an army of them if they ever fix their internal balance problems), I wouldn't touch Stormcast with a 10 foot pole.  Not because of the models, concept, or play style, just because I wouldn't know where to start, and I wouldn't feel confident that whatever I did start with would still be a functional army 5 years down the line.  And with my glacial hobby pace, that matters to me.  Heck, I'm just now getting ready to paint the von carstein family models I bought back in like 7th edition.

...

Re: mixing nighthaunt and gravelords - there are ally rules, and we know the SG book will include a Grand Alliance Death allegiance to represent old style mixed undead Legions of Nagash type armies.  Hopefully it's more than just a copy paste of the existing Grand Alliance Death rules.  If it maintains access to Gravesites and a necromantic spell lore, it might actually be a valid faction in its own right.  That's definitely a bit of a long shot, though.  The grand alliance allegiances haven't seen meaningful changes in a long time and are mostly intentionally minimal in order to provide a simple platform for demo games and to push people towards the more specific factions.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Sception

[dirkdragonslayer]

10 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

"Not usable" is a bit hyperbolic, though, don't you think? You can probably at least still expect warscroll updates and compatibility with the newest battletome. It's not like Liberators are getting moved to Legends, after all.

Also if these new spear Stormcast are truly the replacement for Liberators, they would have the option for hammers and maybe swords. Sigmar's entire deal is hammers, I would be very surprised if his basic line troops couldn't wield them anymore. If these fellas have hammers you could just proxy liberators as them.

I still don't think the Warrior Chamber is disappearing like everyone is doomsaying. If it was why would new models like Gardus be such a chunky boy.

[Gothmaug]

I haven't seen anyone mention it here yet, but in the Sunday preview, if you look at the image with the Soulblight Gravelord Warscroll Cards, the card on top is for Prince Duvalle, from the Crimson Court Warhammer Underwords set. Which is confirmation the CC set gets stats and is included in the gravelords book. To bad its sold out locally here. 

[Udalriki]

You Guys are really fast with posting so I had to catch up with all the new posts

First of all I like the new gritty Stormcasts and the mythological Ornaments on the Armors are the Cherry on the top for me so I might start with them or the new mysterious Destruction Army which got me even more hyped.

So I would like to start a little tinfoil hat speculation about the mysterious teaser.

the most people have described the particles in the teaser as eyes of some kind of creature but my first impression was that they float more freely like some kind of will o wisp you can see one in this shot.

In the last shot of the teaser, I got the impression that the red particles are not between the tress but rather float above them because you can see no trace of movement in the plants on the ground or in the crown of the trees which a moving creature on the ground would normally make.
( Okay maybe this was just a design choice for the animation but nonetheless I got this impression )
and now if you look at this teaser picture which you get through the newsletter we have a face with floating res eyes so I would say in conclusion that maybe the red particles in the Teaser are the floating eyes from the left shield.

An additional interesting point for me is that someone on Reddit pointed out that the monolog from the teaser is really similar to the Dialog from the tree witches of Macbeth.

 I think and hope the new Destruction Faction is a maybe a more mystical and Creepy approach on the Destruction thematic than we have seen before.

[zilberfrid]

43 minutes ago, Sception said:

I wish the new stormcast were resculpts.  I do not envy stormcast players who effectively see their existing unites sidelined to push an entirely separate range every edition.  My contrast the new vamp release is mostly resculpts that dramatically improve the look of several existing units, enough that I might eventually replace some of them, but in the mean time if I'm happy with my existing models I can keep using them in the game.  They haven't been functionally invalidated.

Give the old dudes a pokey stick instead of the oversized hammer, lank them up with a bit of greenstuff (if you want them to look better) and they'll look enough like the new dudes that noone should complain.

[RexHavoc]

15 minutes ago, cofaxest said:

I want to be straight. It will be much harder to sell armies if customers will know that after 5 years their collection will not be usable on the table. I know that it's not the end of the world, but still... 

They do this because so many believe this attitude is true and of course GW are going to cash in on it. If people kept playing with models they own, rules changes be damned, GW would eventually figure this out and have to start putting more effort into keeping both new and old players interested in the game.

I just don't understand the inability for people to say to their gaming group, hey I've got this old model I'm going to keep using it in place of the new kit instead. There are probably a few instance where old models are pushing it, especially within the tournament or PUG scene, but most of the time there is no real change to models other than some visual aspect.

Since the announcement of AoS3 at the weekend, I've heard a ridiculous amount of things where people are complaining about some aspect of the hobby which were all solvable by simply telling your opponent what you are intending to do is and it is astonishing to me! I'm not the most social of people, but if you are about to spend 2 hours of your life playing a game with someone, then what harm is there in telling them prior to starting that you are using an old model in place of a new one?

There has got to be a goldmines worth of psychological papers to be written on the weird habits of wargamers!
 

[Rachmani]

9 minutes ago, Sception said:

But yeah, stormcast range is already too big, and it's definitely a problem.  I don't collect non-undead factions, but while most armies in the game are still at least a little tempting (Idoneth in particular are cool enough that I still might be tempted into starting an army of them if they ever fix their internal balance problems), I wouldn't touch Stormcast with a 10 foot pole.  Not because of the models, concept, or play style, just because I wouldn't know where to start, and I wouldn't feel confident that whatever I did start with would still be a functional army 5 years down the line.  

I have the feeling GW understood just that & is about to give them a "soft reboot". Slightly different optics, a more condensed choice of _new_ miniatures. Then, either rework the old ones or let them fade out. 

The Primaris comparison may not be spot on, but it's not completely off either, I think.

[Whitefang]

13 minutes ago, dirkdragonslayer said:

Also if these new spear Stormcast are truly the replacement for Liberators, they would have the option for hammers and maybe swords. Sigmar's entire deal is hammers, I would be very surprised if his basic line troops couldn't wield them anymore. If these fellas have hammers you could just proxy liberators as them.

 

Not really

I mean, just look at his homeland the old empire, sigmar’ heirs had all sorts of military weapons such as spears & shields, swords, halberds etc.

[zilberfrid]

6 minutes ago, RexHavoc said:

They do this because so many believe this attitude is true and of course GW are going to cash in on it. If people kept playing with models they own, rules changes be damned, GW would eventually figure this out and have to start putting more effort into keeping both new and old players interested in the game.

I just don't understand the inability for people to say to their gaming group, hey I've got this old model I'm going to keep using it in place of the new kit instead. There are probably a few instance where old models are pushing it, especially within the tournament or PUG scene, but most of the time there is no real change to models other than some visual aspect.

Since the announcement of AoS3 at the weekend, I've heard a ridiculous amount of things where people are complaining about some aspect of the hobby which were all solvable by simply telling your opponent what you are intending to do is and it is astonishing to me! I'm not the most social of people, but if you are about to spend 2 hours of your life playing a game with someone, then what harm is there in telling them prior to starting that you are using an old model in place of a new one?

There has got to be a goldmines worth of psychological papers to be written on the weird habits of wargamers!
 

I made warscroll cards for the opponent to use with a picture of my dudes on them to avoid confusion (my pistoleers are an eclectic bunch, made from Bretonnian Knights, Empire Knights, Glade Riders and even Pistoleers).

Well, I made one, but planned to make more.

[Gitzdee]

27 minutes ago, Sception said:

yeah, but that was a case of very different units competitively invalidating each other, which happens, and being in the same faction to begin with was kind of an oddball fluke decision on GW's part.  grimghasts were better than grave guard, but in their core concept and aesthetic they weren't just 'grave guard 2, the newer better grave guard'.

But yeah, stormcast range is already too big, and it's definitely a problem.  I don't collect non-undead factions, but while most armies in the game are still at least a little tempting (Idoneth in particular are cool enough that I still might be tempted into starting an army of them if they ever fix their internal balance problems), I wouldn't touch Stormcast with a 10 foot pole.  Not because of the models, concept, or play style, just because I wouldn't know where to start, and I wouldn't feel confident that whatever I did start with would still be a functional army 5 years down the line.  And with my glacial hobby pace, that matters to me.  Heck, I'm just now getting ready to paint the von carstein family models I bought back in like 7th edition.

I can relate to this. I dont really care about replacing some older models with newer sculpts, but i dont like them invalidating older model by not updating their rules. I dont like powercreep. Imo people will always buy new sculpts because people like new shiny things. No need to remove old models from battletomes or dont update their rules to a new standard to keep older models relevant.

(Still got Isle of blood Skaven to build) 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Iksdee

[cofaxest]

7 minutes ago, RexHavoc said:

They do this because so many believe this attitude is true and of course GW are going to cash in on it. If people kept playing with models they own, rules changes be damned, GW would eventually figure this out and have to start putting more effort into keeping both new and old players interested in the game.

I just don't understand the inability for people to say to their gaming group, hey I've got this old model I'm going to keep using it in place of the new kit instead. There are probably a few instance where old models are pushing it, especially within the tournament or PUG scene, but most of the time there is no real change to models other than some visual aspect.

Since the announcement of AoS3 at the weekend, I've heard a ridiculous amount of things where people are complaining about some aspect of the hobby which were all solvable by simply telling your opponent what you are intending to do is and it is astonishing to me! I'm not the most social of people, but if you are about to spend 2 hours of your life playing a game with someone, then what harm is there in telling them prior to starting that you are using an old model in place of a new one?

There has got to be a goldmines worth of psychological papers to be written on the weird habits of wargamers!
 

We call it proxies and in my local meta, you can't use them in tournament games.

[Neverchosen]

20 hours ago, MitGas said:

Anyways, I didn't realize that there was a GK/TS teaser until like yesterday and frankly, I'm not entirely happy as this means the rumour engine is most likely for 40k. 😂 I LOVE Thousand Sons (and especially Rubric Marines) since the day I've first seen the now classic sculpt by Jes Goodwin (seriously, I still have 20 of them) but at the moment I'd rather get the IMO kinda missing mortal side of AoS Tzeentch - simply because the TS range has everything I've ever asked for (it took 20 years but I got every toy I ever fantasized about in 40k) while AoS Tzeentch could use a small wave of mortals to make the army "complete". However, this should not be taken as me complaining - more stuff for TS is always very welcome; I'm sure GW will get more of my money!

My friends plays Thousand Sons and Disciples of Tzeentch and I find that the hero models proxy into AOS so strangely well. I suppose when you are worshiping the god of change some techno flair doesn't look out of place in a fantasy setting. That same friend is trying desperately to sell me on grey knights but I don't think he understands that if I get into 40k I would much rather see the Imperium fall... 😈

Here are some of my hopes for chaos in 3.0
The Slaanesh release was fantastic and set a precedent for what I want for the other Chaos factions. I really want each faction to have their Sigvald equivalent of a returned champion! 
As for Tzeentch mortals it is invariably going to happen in 3.0. I think that they need to look at the variety presented in the Slaanesh line and go a step further for the mortal worshipers of the Lord of Change! I feel like mutation is the name of the game in terms of expanding the line. Take the Kariac acolyte as a base and then get weird with it... bulked out hulking mutants and skinny floating magical mutants... the sky is the limit with Tzeentch.
I think that Pestigors and Khornegors are all we need to really round out those lines. I really hope that pestigors fulfill the role of ungors as Nurgle needs some disease spreading chaff. I also think khornegors based around centigors would introduce some light cavalry to their line.
I have also argued a few times that I think that Chaos Dwarves could be an awesome subfaction for S2D... they will provide some shooting and bring back a beloved army and not pose a significant risk for GW in developing a wholly new faction... but I would be happy if they stood on their own but I want to at least be able to ally them together. Beasts of Chaos need a pretty massive overhaul and in Ghur I think they will find it! Skaven are great they just desperately need an update to their models.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Neverchosen

[Nagash42]

We haven't even seen the stats yet. Maybe these new guys can't ride the lightning like the others can?. Maybe libs will get a buff to their hammers? 

[RexHavoc]

16 minutes ago, cofaxest said:

We call it proxies and in my local meta, you can't use them in tournament games.

Yeah, see this is total madness to me. I don't understand this one bit.

All I can imagine is like 20 lads signing up to a tournament, each and everyone of them thinking to themselves how annoying it is they can't use models they own and cursing the new rules, before trudging along to the game with a brand new set of (expensive) models, but all saying nothing to each other because 'That's how the local meta is'. 🤷‍♂️

 

[Neverchosen]

5 minutes ago, Nagash42 said:

We haven't even seen the stats yet. Maybe these new guys can't ride the lightning like the others can?. Maybe libs will get a buff to their hammers? 

I actually think that is a really good possibility. 

[dirkdragonslayer]

29 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

Not really

I mean, just look at his homeland the old empire, sigmar’ heirs had all sorts of military weapons such as spears & shields, swords, halberds etc.

I mean, I rather look at Sigmar and his current children if we are going to be talking about aesthetics. Sigmar Heldenhammer likes himself some Hammers. They use other weapons, but the hammer is the most prominent. His favorite stormhost is the Hammers of Sigmar of Hammerhal, hammers are emblazoned on every shrine and statue, his soldiers wield hammers in his name, the holiest weapon around is Ghal Maraz the hammer, priests revere him as the hammer and lightning God, and there's a theme with reforging where the stormcast get traumatically hammered back into shape (like during malign portents). That boy loves him some hammers.

I bet this new chamber likes their spears, and the spears look really good, but I don't see it fully replacing the hammer wielding Liberators like some people think, unless the multipart plastic kit also has hammer options. It's kind of iconic to the stormcast, even if they look goofy.

[Clan's Cynic]

Bloodlines preview for Soulblight.

• Legion of Night - Mannfred and his friends get Fly High.
• Legion of Blood - Black Knights as Battleline.. 
• Kastelai Dynasty - Prince Vhordrai, improved Blood Knights.
• Avengorii Dynasty - Terrorgheists and Zombie Dragons as Battleline.
• Vyrkos Dynasty - All Heroes count as Generals(?), were 'Cursed' by a God-Beast, not Nagash.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Clan's Cynic

[zilberfrid]

14 minutes ago, cofaxest said:

We call it proxies and in my local meta, you can't use them in tournament games.

There are proxies and there are conversions.

If you give the libs a spear, they are clearly no linger liberators. Infantry Stormcast with spears are Vindicators.

[Jaskier]

A dynasty that makes all your heroes count as Generals?
A dynasty that gives you Battleline Black Knights!?
A dynasty that gives you Battleline Zombie Dragons and Terrorgheists!?!?
And the prices on the new stuff aren't that bad!?!?!?

 

[JackStreicher]

10 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Bloodlines preview for Soulblight.

Nice!

I am still not too keen on the gravesite mechanic which is now rather diminishing and just as easily countered.