The Rumour Thread

[wargames101]

12 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

If I look at the Escher Necromunda sets (2017 and 2020), they are both dynamic and give lots of build options. I believe other sets also have that. So there is precedence for a best of both worlds.

I'd also point to the Putrid Blightkings as an exemplar. It's pretty easy to build a block of 20 PBKs in such a way that it's difficult to tell that they're based on five basic body types.

The Idoneth warrior sets have two strong builds each so that you can field 20 unique models, minimally. The poses are also wonderfully dynamic.

I think part of the reason the LRL line has felt underwhelming is that many of the models feel like copy/past jobs. Aside from the heads of the LRL archers, it's hard to see what's unique? They still look great, but definitely feel more like a throwback to mid-90s pewter design constraints than the modern plastics.

[Shearl]

While the Lumineth line doesn't have a lot of variation within units I think its definitely a conscience design angle for the range. Their forces are supposed to be comprised of highly trained, orderly soldiers who fight in formations. They represent a more professional army, all the pikemen are basically posed the same because their all in the same phalanx. 

Their lack of individuality is what separates them from other armies, where a unit of stormcast might represent a group of warriors fighting in tandem with each other or ogors as a group of individuals, each Lumineth soldier is simply a cog in a well oiled machine.  

That being said, it's definitely not going to appeal to everyone. 

[Thiagoma]

While the Rank and file is part of the Lumineth identity as skilled soldiers, it is also a bit of the reason the kits are so limited. There is little room to make the models more unique within the kits itself.

[LuminethMage]

1 hour ago, wargames101 said:

I'd also point to the Putrid Blightkings as an exemplar. It's pretty easy to build a block of 20 PBKs in such a way that it's difficult to tell that they're based on five basic body types.

The Idoneth warrior sets have two strong builds each so that you can field 20 unique models, minimally. The poses are also wonderfully dynamic.

I think part of the reason the LRL line has felt underwhelming is that many of the models feel like copy/past jobs. Aside from the heads of the LRL archers, it's hard to see what's unique? They still look great, but definitely feel more like a throwback to mid-90s pewter design constraints than the modern plastics.

I also like them both.

I love that the Lumineth look like proper regiments, where everyone is aiming in synchrony. If you look at their background lore - these are meant to be stoic, reflective, reactive aelves. 

There are a lot of smaller differences on the Lumineth models: Symbols, faces, small pose differences. They have pretty amazing details on them. Actual bow strings for example. I think it's unfair to say they a throwback to the mid 90s. Put them next to some high elf archers from that period and you'll clearly see the difference.

The Idoneth are meant to be an aggressive, active force of nature that crushes down on you like a big wave. The dynamic poses fit very well with that concept.

They are both well done and fit well with their lore. I think the rest is just personal preference, but there isn't a qualitative difference. 

____

And because that came up now twice, I also wonder if their kit is really that limited in comparison to other AoS kits. The army box, besides the shields, has extra heads (with helm and without helm), swords (drawn and sheeted from the Wardens, drawn from the Danwriders), spears (Warden and Dawnrider), scenery bits (stones and wheat), and wand(s). And that's just what I can remember right now. I made my small Mistveaver/Cathallar conversion exclusively using some of theses extra bits  from the army box set. 

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by LuminethMage

[wargames101]

For sure, at some point it comes down to "de gustibus non est disputandum."

My central issue is that at a certain point it would be cool to have a couple alt builds that introduce some variety, if desired. It's increasingly common among the Primaris line where similarly well-disciplined troops are modeled to display reloading, and it's not hard to imagine it in the LRL. E.g. One of the archers could have a loosed arrow still crossing the box, while another is being grabbed with Legolas-esqe speed. 

[Souleater]

(To the tune of Pump up the Jam)

 

Stomp up and down!

While ya feet are stompin' 

Give da gits a crumpin' 

Look at de oomans runnin' 

 

 

You get the idea.

[Sleboda]

9 hours ago, wargames101 said:

 

I think part of the reason the LRL line has felt underwhelming is that many of the models feel like copy/past jobs. Aside from the heads of the LRL archers, it's hard to see what's unique? They still look great, but definitely feel more like a throwback to mid-90s pewter design

FWIW, I truly miss the days of mono-pose toy soldiers in my battle games.

In skirmish games of a dozen or fewer models, sure, give me individuality. In a game where armies clash, give me disciplined, uniform soldiers who look like they are in a regiment.

[Mattrulesok]

I like some uniformity in the right unit, judicators are very uniform and I really like that look on them, they look like they are doing the whole 'ready, aim, loose' thing which fits the aesthetic of brainwashed zombie super soldiers. The namarti on the other hand fit the more aggressive chaotic, dynamic posing as they look like a raiding party fighting more as individuals within a group. 

[Nezzhil]

 

I think it is the worst of the three mercenaries.

[The Brotherhood of Necros]

Which Mega-Gargant variety does this leave for Destruction...? 

[JPjr]

@Nezzhil the ability or the model/character?

the ability is, I guess, ok, could be a nice horde clearer but the actual big lad doesn't really give you a death feel though

still kinda understandable I guess, you could make him look zombified or whatever but they wouldn't want to use a kitbashed/converted model as advert n official 'character', or paint him to look like the ghost of a gargant but then you get into well does he have ethereal and can fly and we're in a whole different world then.

really looking forward to seeing people convert these models though for their own armies, I think that's going to be my favourite thing about them. there's going to be some amazing ones done to fit each and every different faction out there.

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by JPjr

[Adamcbutton]

4 minutes ago, The Brotherhood of Necros said:

Which Mega-Gargant variety does this leave for Destruction...? 

Destruction can probably take all 3 of the named gargants that have already been revealed, seeing as GW confirmed that they can take Bundo Whalebiter as well as Order armies. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Adamcbutton
Typo

[Nezzhil]

3 minutes ago, The Brotherhood of Necros said:

Which Mega-Gargant variety does this leave for Destruction...? 

All of them are avaliable for Destruction.

 

3 minutes ago, JPjr said:

@Nezzhil the ability or the model/character?

the ability is, I guess, ok, could be a nice horde clearer but the actual big lad doesn't really give you a death feel though

still kinda understandable I guess, you could make him look zombified or whatever but they wouldn't want to use a kitbashed/converted model as advert n official 'character', or paint him to look like the ghost of a gargant but then you get into well does he have ethereal and can fly and we're in a whole different world then.

really looking forward to seeing people convert these models though for their own armies, I think that's going to be my favourite thing about them. there's going to be some amazing ones done to fit each and every different faction out there.

 

 

 

I'm a player of Gloomspite Gitz, for an antihorde skill is very poor. You will be very lucky if you roll more of ten dices, and the Gargant must survive the combat.

[sandlemad]

5 minutes ago, The Brotherhood of Necros said:

Which Mega-Gargant variety does this leave for Destruction...? 

Possibly Destruction armies have some sort of different rule about including SoB dudes in their forces. Something more akin to traditional allying with fewer restrictions rather than hiring a specific named mercenary giant as the other GAs do.

[Greasygeek]

1 hour ago, Nezzhil said:

 

I think it is the worst of the three mercenaries.

Maybe so but the pose of the model is very friendly to being zombified. 

[zilberfrid]

3 hours ago, JPjr said:

@Nezzhil the ability or the model/character?

the ability is, I guess, ok, could be a nice horde clearer but the actual big lad doesn't really give you a death feel though

still kinda understandable I guess, you could make him look zombified or whatever but they wouldn't want to use a kitbashed/converted model as advert n official 'character', or paint him to look like the ghost of a gargant but then you get into well does he have ethereal and can fly and we're in a whole different world then.

really looking forward to seeing people convert these models though for their own armies, I think that's going to be my favourite thing about them. there's going to be some amazing ones done to fit each and every different faction out there.

You could just put a blanket on him and cut out the eyes. That's a classic ghost, right?

[KingBrodd]

I am living for these named Megas and their alternate colour schemes!! Big Drogg Fort-Kicka is an awesome name, I should start doing some research into my own lads names. 

Really looking forward to all the conversions to come from the Megas and also looking forward to seeing the back of the Warstomper to see what exactly is strapped to his back, I think it's a Ghorgon head and also to see a different angle of the Gatebreakers flail.

[Kadeton]

12 hours ago, Nezzhil said:

For an antihorde skill is very poor. You will be very lucky if you roll more of ten dices, and the Gargant must survive the combat.

Yeah, "end of the combat phase" timing makes this ability really lackluster. If Big Drogg dies, you get nothing. If Big Drogg smashes up the enemy unit he's in combat with (as you'd hope!) then the opponent can remove the models closest to him, and the halitosis effect is diminished. And even when you manage to arrange things so that it works at full effect, needing sixes means you shouldn't expect to see more than one or two mortal wounds out of it.

Just at face value, it's pretty meh. When you compare it to "all enemy units within 6" of this massive base suffer -1 to hit on all attacks" it's god-awful. Unless there's something else that interacts with it, which we don't know about yet...

Edited September 29, 2020 by Kadeton

[Shearl]

I think it's also important to note that we don't know what the rules for the Warstomper or Gatebreaker even are yet. 

[Gutlord]

33 minutes ago, Shearl said:

I think it's also important to note that we don't know what the rules for the Warstomper or Gatebreaker even are yet. 

Good point......the warstompa is 10 points cheaper than the gatebreaker which must be a factor

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, Kadeton said:

Just at face value, it's pretty meh. When you compare it to "all enemy units within 6" of this massive base suffer -1 to hit on all attacks" it's god-awful. Unless there's something else that interacts with it, which we don't know about yet...

There isn’t. We‘re talking about rules from GW here

[Kramer]

1 minute ago, JackStreicher said:

There isn’t. We‘re talking about rules from GW here

When I read the designer notes I often have the feeling there is whole layer to the rules they haven’t mentioned. 

what I’m saying there is usually something we didn’t know about

[JackStreicher]

4 minutes ago, Kramer said:

When I read the designer notes I often have the feeling there is whole layer to the rules they haven’t mentioned. 

what I’m saying there is usually something we didn’t know about

After two decades of playing Warhammer games there rarely isn‘t in my opinion. 
Mostly it feels like they randomly write rules that sometimes, via accident create synergies and a good army while they often don‘t  That‘s at least what it feels like. ^^

[Kadeton]

29 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

After two decades of playing Warhammer games there rarely isn‘t in my opinion. 
Mostly it feels like they randomly write rules that sometimes, via accident create synergies and a good army while they often don‘t  That‘s at least what it feels like. ^^

There is definitely often a big disconnect between how the GW designers think an army should work, and the way that competitive players actually make it work in the meta. Often, that relies on unintended interactions.

In the case of the Community previews, though, the designers aren't even involved as such. It's more that the Community writers want to highlight something that they think players will find exciting, but they never think to provide the essential context in which those rules operate. This often leads to rule snippets being posted on WH Community and then being received by the players as either utterly worthless or hilariously overpowered, and everyone loses their minds... It's only when the full rules are released that we are able to look back and go "Oh, that makes sense now."

(Often the rules are still worthless or game-breaking even in context... I'm just saying that before the actual release, it's usually hard to tell whether that's genuinely the case or if there are missing pieces that Community just haven't bothered to tell us about.)

Just as a for-instance: If the Warstomper's Jump Up and Down attack has to be done instead of all their regular attacks, and it really sucks, then the mercenary's earth-shaking ability on JU&D isn't so great. If the Gatebreaker has an ability they can use to suck in units around them and force them to pile in close, then the Halitosis ability starts looking a whole lot better. I don't think either of those are likely, but hopefully it illustrates the problem of missing information!

[SleeperAgent]

It would've been WAY more thematic for the death gargant mercenary to take away 1 bravery for each 6 rolled. Imagine the possibilities.