The Rumour Thread

[PJetski]

An official online living document with all the points is a great idea.

[michu]

Little break in this point discussion - the bravest Gryph-Hound in the Mortal Realms is back!!!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/06/14/season-3-no-001-terror-tactics/

Edited June 14, 2019 by michu

[Qrow]

1 hour ago, Forrix said:

The ability to resurrect a summonable unit of any size for 1 cp (most notably grimghast reapers) combined with stacking deathly invocations along with a general that is largely unkillable (Nagash) means they have incredible board control as removing or reducing their model count is effectively impossible for some armies. Nagash's dispels also just shut down armies that depend on spell casting like Tzeentch.  

I was thinking they would do something like separate out the Nighthaunt units from LON (this was a major theory at the time) or adjust the Undying Legion command trait to only work on Zombies and Skeletons or limit the size of units it can bring back. Reducing the number of gravesites could also make zoning a more effective tactic and limit deathly invocations a bit. Lowering Nagash's dispel bonus would also make him less harsh against other magic factions.

Its worth noting that there has been some major power creep in recent months with Skaven and Flesh-Eater courts leading the way that are definitely making LON, DOK, and for that matter Sacrosanct Stormcast seem much more reasonable (Sacrosanct units were considered pretty overpowered for awhile). Though LON and especially DOK are both still doing extremely well on the tournament circuit.  

Ahhh thank you. I wonder if they are going to FAQ the LoN invigoration aura to be written how it is for LoG; rules as written state the LoG can choose 1 unit within 9" of A gravesite and bring back 1D3 models,  instead of 1 unit within 9" of EACH gravesite, effectively losing 3D3 models returned each hero phase.

I was surprised when LoN got access to all nighthaunt units, while it makes sense lorewise, it has created a weird situation where nighthaunt units are better outside of their own codex.

[Kurrilino]

2 hours ago, Forrix said:

The ability to resurrect a summonable unit of any size for 1 cp (most notably grimghast reapers) combined with stacking deathly invocations along with a general that is largely unkillable (Nagash) means they have incredible board control as removing or reducing their model count is effectively impossible for some armies. Nagash's dispels also just shut down armies that depend on spell casting like Tzeentch.  

I was thinking they would do something like separate out the Nighthaunt units from LON (this was a major theory at the time) or adjust the Undying Legion command trait to only work on Zombies and Skeletons or limit the size of units it can bring back. Reducing the number of gravesites could also make zoning a more effective tactic and limit deathly invocations a bit. Lowering Nagash's dispel bonus would also make him less harsh against other magic factions.

Its worth noting that there has been some major power creep in recent months with Skaven and Flesh-Eater courts leading the way that are definitely making LON, DOK, and for that matter Sacrosanct Stormcast seem much more reasonable (Sacrosanct units were considered pretty overpowered for awhile). Though LON and especially DOK are both still doing extremely well on the tournament circuit.  

May i offer you cheese with your whine ?

Are you by any chance the gut that wrote the Nurgle point changes after being spanked by Thricefold ?

It's always the same. People lose and run around asking for point changes and crippling effects on the armies they lose against.

Did it ever occur to you that Nagash is supposed to be played like that? A god like necromancer with super magic powers to raise and summon the dead. It's thematic, it's fun and exciting. It's a different way to play the game.  And no, i don't play a death army.

Your idea is now to take away his magic and raising dead abilities.  Bravo, well done sir.

May your tears touch the floor waterfall like

[frostfire]

I honestly think that Nagash is just right in his position, or even a bit overcosted comparing to FEC and Skaven or even Fyreslayer who obviously tipped the balance since they came out .....

Thanks to all the viable Deathlords and resurrecting ability, LoN become an interesting army with its own features. Simply demolishing the ability to bring back models and units may just demolish the fun to play them as well.

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

14 minutes ago, frostfire said:

I honestly think that Nagash is just right in his position, or even a bit overcosted comparing to FEC and Skaven or even Fyreslayer who obviously tipped the balance since they came out .....

Thanks to all the viable Deathlords and resurrecting ability, LoN become an interesting army with its own features. Simply demolishing the ability to bring back models and units may just demolish the fun to play them as well.

Demolishes their usefulness as well, otherwise builds would go to favour meatier units that couldn't revive anyways (not that there are many options for that), thus making them a death reskin of a generic army. besides, with the exception of reapers, any amount of rend will drop our most common units like flies and even spamming dice will make enough die considering our usually abysmal saves, The revive mechanic is how we justify having such flimsy units.

[Qrow]

Alleged spread of the GHB2019 has been shown on a german add, image is attached.

I hope it is real, because those are some nice point drops for nighthaunt (except the reapers, ouch... expected, but ouch)

[Ointagru]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/06/14/the-generals-handbook-2019-major-points-changesgw-homepage-post-2/

[Gecktron]

Witch Aelfs up to 120 and Hag Queens to 90. In line with most predictions. I hope the Blood Stalkers point drop helps to see them more often...

[PUFNSTUF]

Ouch for Daughters, gonna make it much harder to fit stuff in to lists. Other stuff seems interesting, Newer books get points adjustments in a FAQ so means book was done before those armies were updated I guess (ie FEC, SKaven, etc)

[Elmir]

Has anybody been able to make out the NH points then? The resolution of the pic you uploaded doesn't allow me to actually see what's there. 

 

[Qrow]

5 minutes ago, Elmir said:

Has anybody been able to make out the NH points then? The resolution of the pic you uploaded doesn't allow me to actually see what's there. 

 

From what we can make out:

Kurdoss at 200

Harridans 80/280

bladeghiest 90/320

Hexwriaths 140

Dreadblades 90

Knight of shrouds 100

Knight of shrouds on steed 120

Olynder 230?

Reiknor 170

Coach 240?

Chainghasts 70

Myrmourns 70 (no horde discount)

Shyish reaper and vault of souls 20

Edited June 14, 2019 by Qrow

[Qrow]

Forgot to add grimghast reapers 160/420

[tripchimeras]

As far as deepkin go this is extremely disappointing if it encompasses all of the changes.  A 10 pt cost increase to morrsarr means nothing in terms of army composition.  They will be taken in exactly the same quantities and formations 60pt increase for 18 is not even close to enough.  Oh no I'm going to miss out on that second unit of eternal guard allies!  20pts may have been enough to shift army composition at least some, but the power builds had about 140pts of non-essential stuff in them so I am not even sure that was enough. 

I know GW doesn't like to overreact, but a decent sized chunk of the poorly pointed units in the game are off by far more then 10-20pts especially in Deepkin.  Especially for units that cost over 300pts 10-20pt changes are basically a drop in the bucket.  If I wasn't taking a Leviadon at 380 I am not taking a Leviadon at 360 and I sure as well am not taking one at 370.  It wasn't getting left out of lists because we couldn't quite find that last 10 pts to fit it in.  It was getting left out of lists because it isn't efficient at its price point.   For Deepkin Thralls or reavers could maybe be fixed by a 10-20pt swing, but that's really about it.  I want to wait for the actual release before final judgement, but this saddens me.  The fact that Allopexes aren't even mentioned is extremely disheartening, I really hope they went down in points.  I really was convinced that at the very least the idolon would see reductions considering how criminally overcosted they are in comparison to the newer heroes of the same utility, but again 10pts wasn't going to cut it.  Ugh. 

I'm sure its the same across the board for the other armies too. Please don't mistake me, Deepkin are a near top tier army.  However, they are a boring as hell top tier army to play, with only 1 way to really play them successfully, but they are a book with some really cool rules and abilities and with point reductions there are some really cool combos that could be fun for both the player and their opponent.  I didn't want massive price reductions across the board for Deepkin, what I wanted was a competitive reason to play anything other then tideflip morrsarr spam and unfortunately that required some pretty hefty price drops elsewhere.  I was fine with eels getting shafted, But in order to properly shaft them a lot of the book needed help, much more help then you can do with 10pts.

 

Edit: I am sure this is far too early, but based on the "highlighted" point changes I find it hard to believe they have almost any large point changes to reveal.  To clarify what I was thinking in rant above: I think 130 for the numarti was all i was expecting and am happy with on second thought.  Would like to see a price increase on the caster, soulscryer, and volturnos.  A price decrease on soulrenders was in order.  Allopex need to be 120pts probably.  Leviadon needed to go down 40-60.  And finally the idolon each needed a 60-80pt reduction.  Ishlaen guard are more or less fine as is, Morrsarr should be ~180-200pts.

Edited June 14, 2019 by tripchimeras

[JackdawGin]

Glad to see the newer battletomes mentioned at the back as getting updates as well.

 

 

[HollowHills]

12 minutes ago, tripchimeras said:

As far as deepkin go this is extremely disappointing if it encompasses all of the changes.  A 10 pt cost increase to morrsarr means nothing in terms of army composition.  They will be taken in exactly the same quantities and formations 60pt increase for 18 is not even close to enough.  Oh no I'm going to miss out on that second unit of eternal guard allies!  20pts may have been enough to shift army composition at least some, but the power builds had about 140pts of non-essential stuff in them so I am not even sure that was enough. 

I know GW doesn't like to overreact, but a decent sized chunk of the poorly pointed units in the game are off by far more then 10-20pts especially in Deepkin.  Especially for units that cost over 300pts 10-20pt changes are basically a drop in the bucket.  If I wasn't taking a Leviadon at 380 I am not taking a Leviadon at 360 and I sure as well am not taking one at 370.  It wasn't getting left out of lists because we couldn't quite find that last 10 pts to fit it in.  It was getting left out of lists because it isn't efficient at its price point.   For Deepkin Thralls or reavers could maybe be fixed by a 10-20pt swing, but that's really about it.  I want to wait for the actual release before final judgement, but this saddens me.  The fact that Allopexes aren't even mentioned is extremely disheartening, but based on the trend in this article even if they do get a reduction its going to be 10pts, which is about a 1/3 of the way there to making them competitive.  I really was convinced that at the very least the idolon would see reductions considering how criminally overcosted they are in comparison to the newer heroes of the same utility, but again 10pts wasn't going to cut it.  Ugh. 

I'm sure its the same across the board for the other armies too. Please don't mistake me, Deepkin are a near top tier army.  However, they are a boring as hell top tier army to play, with only 1 way to really play them successfully, but they are a book with some really cool rules and abilities and with point reductions there are some really cool combos that could be fun for both the player and their opponent.  I didn't want massive price reductions across the board for Deepkin, what I wanted was a competitive reason to play anything other then tideflip morrsarr spam and unfortunately that required some pretty hefty price drops elsewhere.  I was fine with eels getting shafted, But in order to properly shaft them a lot of the book needed help, much more help then you can do with 10pts.

Basically agree. 10 points isn't enough to stop the eel meta and other units (levi / eidolon / shaerk) probably needed 40 to 60 point reductions. I was personally hoping we'd see morsarr at the 200 mark and those massive drops come elsewhere. 

Lotann should legitimately be about 50 points. 

Part of me wonders if they are just accepting the non-eel lists just don't work rules wise for idoneth and waiting for a new book. 

[tripchimeras]

5 minutes ago, HollowHills said:

Basically agree. 10 points isn't enough to stop the eel meta and other units (levi / eidolon / shaerk) probably needed 40 to 60 point reductions. I was personally hoping we'd see morsarr at the 200 mark and those massive drops come elsewhere. 

Lotann should legitimately be about 50 points. 

Part of me wonders if they are just accepting the non-eel lists just don't work rules wise for idoneth and waiting for a new book. 

I was just editing my original post with my price thoughts and was saying the same thing for morsarr and the levi, eidolon, and allopax.  I do disagree however that the list doesn't have viable rulesets combos other then eel spam.  If they had been willing to take somewhat more aggressive pricings they really do have some interesting things.  The caster eidolon actually has a really strong ruleset at 360-380pts I think it would be quite strong.  Allopex taken as units of 3-4 and not as solo creatures could pack quite the punch (especially if you consider combining them with a king and/or the leadership buffs aplenty in the book to avoid sharks dieing to leadership).  Most importantly I think thralls are far stronger then most give them credit for, but are overshadowed by eels in pt efficiency.  If adequate decreases occurred, with eels being properly nerfed I think there are quite a few competitive, but not OP, builds to be had.  But right now none of those combos are viable due to overpriced everything.

Edited June 14, 2019 by tripchimeras

[Belper]

 

1 hour ago, Gecktron said:

Witch Aelfs up to 120 and Hag Queens to 90. In line with most predictions. I hope the Blood Stalkers point drop helps to see them more often...

Keep hopin, cause it ain't happenin.

[HammerOfSigmar]

Blood stalker do get point decrease....down to 140....

[Skreech Verminking]

41 minutes ago, JackdawGin said:

Glad to see the newer battletomes mentioned at the back as getting updates as well.

 

 

That’s something I really am happy to hear. (Still hoping for a point decrease for the Stormvermins and a  points increase for a few other units like plague monks etc.)

Edited June 14, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Mutton]

1 hour ago, Gecktron said:

Witch Aelfs up to 120 and Hag Queens to 90. In line with most predictions. I hope the Blood Stalkers point drop helps to see them more often...

Blood Stalkers is a unit that mathematically does 1-2 wounds per shooting phase. I might take them at 100.

It stinks, I was really hoping for an excuse to buy them.

[prochuvi]

So a top army as idoneth get a nerf of 10 points to eels(a increase of around 6'5%) and buff across tye board to every unit.

A botton army as dispossesed get a nerf of 10 points to warriors( increase of 12% to the cost of the unit),a buff to the cost of heroes who are minor % of the points in lists and zero changes to the other units?

Makes sense.......

[Skreech Verminking]

Quote: “

Bonesplitterz and Gutbusters

No changes here – your Bonesplitterz and Gutbusters armies are just as deadly as they always were!”

either Gw really, really hates this armies or their battletome update is  nearer then thought 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[JackdawGin]

Battletome: Savy Orcs (Orruks) will likely be up soon.  They're making good progress on the updating.

 

Also, this Community post really drives home how many Aelf armies there are that are made up of only 6ish units.  Hopefully they get the Gloomspite treatment soon.

[5kaven5lave]

‘Just as deadly as they always were’

The art of saying nothing while saying something 🤣🤣🤣