Panzer Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 28 minutes ago, Sleboda said: *From what I understand, he's a perfectly nice person. It's just that he had zero understanding of Warhammer or the Tomb Kings when he was assigned their book and it showed massively. That book was the single worst Warhammer Armies book ever written, from a the rules perspective. Well ... the Tyranid Codex would like to disagree. Nerfed twice in a row when it was already on the weaker side just because he kept losing to a mates Imperial Guard. 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, Panzer said: Well ... the Tyranid Codex would like to disagree. Nerfed twice in a row when it was already on the weaker side just because he kept losing to a mates Imperial Guard. 😅 I had heard that the Tyranid Codex was also bad, but note that I was specific in saying Warhammer Armies books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexonian Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 they do look strong, but we don't know everything atm, and I still think slaanesh can kick their ****** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Krungharr Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) How are the Bonereapers getting a +1 save across the board? Edited October 25, 2019 by Lord Krungharr misspelled Bonereapers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrix Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Just now, Lord Krungharr said: How are the Bonereapers getting a +1 save across the board? One of their subfaction rules is +1 save to all units. Hard to judge it when we don't know the points efficiency of their wounds to start with but I can see why I rule like that is worrying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Krungharr Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I am guessing the Mortek and basic troops will be not super cheap, but reasonably costed and get a max unit size discount of note. But I bet the bigger guys will be pricy in points. Or at least in next year's GHB they'll be upped in points, as they'll have sold a bunch by then 😜 That new box set really is tempting. I like the sound and look of both armies in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth criminal Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I haven't been impressed by what has been shown in community previews. Okay, so they have good save and that's it. They aren't fast, they aren't killy (2 attacks per dude as opposed to 4 on witches), they will crumble to mortal wounds. Haven't seen any strike first or double strike abilities. They don't have LoN level recursion. Bonecast is a good nickname for them, they are basically weaker hammers of sigmar so far. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 We've gone from knee-jerking after the tome is released but before the army has been put through its paces to knee-jerking before we even have the tome. And beyond that, there's already recrimination about how the alleged overpoweredness is being done intentionally to push sales! How is this good for the community? To respond more substantively to your specific concerns: DoK was not overpowered because of re-rolls. Witch Aelf spam was overpowered because of re-rolls combined with a large volume of attacks combined with good speed combined with multiple other good offensive buffs combined with good defensive buffs and an incredibly strong re-rollable ward save and easy battleshock immunity in the setting of a relatively low points cost for both the unit and it's key buffers. And DoK isn't even overpowered now! They are a good army, yeah, but they are on par with like six other factions at least. Yes, the previewed subfaction abilities look pretty strong. Many other factions also have subfaction abilities that are really strong. Others have stronger universal battle traits. Often times these strong subfaction abilities are balanced out by a mandatory command trait or artefact that isn't very good. Generally speaking, it's the norm for armies to have very powerful abilities now. This isn't 2017 when your main battle traits might be a spell lore and a special terrain feature and that's it. Everything that I've read suggests that KO sold really well. I don't think that GW is looking to "avoid another KO". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Parker Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 29 minutes ago, Smooth criminal said: I haven't been impressed by what has been shown in community previews. Okay, so they have good save and that's it. They aren't fast, they aren't killy (2 attacks per dude as opposed to 4 on witches), they will crumble to mortal wounds. Haven't seen any strike first or double strike abilities. They don't have LoN level recursion. Bonecast is a good nickname for them, they are basically weaker hammers of sigmar so far. Stalkers using precision aspect are 5x 3+ 3+ -2 2 damage, which is amazing damage output from an ogre size model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 33 minutes ago, Reuben Parker said: Stalkers using precision aspect are 5x 3+ 3+ -2 2 damage, which is amazing damage output from an ogre size model Not really sure why the size is particularly relevant. We really need to know the points cost. Their melee profile is very similar to Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs, but they move 10" less and don't fly (well, they pseudo-fly at the cost of a command point, but still). Tzaangor Enlightened are a good unit, but they are hardly lighting the world on fire... and the 16" flying move is way more important than the extra point of rend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Parker Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, swarmofseals said: Not really sure why the size is particularly relevant. We really need to know the points cost. Their melee profile is very similar to Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs, but they move 10" less and don't fly (well, they pseudo-fly at the cost of a command point, but still). Tzaangor Enlightened are a good unit, but they are hardly lighting the world on fire... and the 16" flying move is way more important than the extra point of rend. Size is only mainly relevant in terms of damage potential compared to frontage so that same profile on a 25mm base would more scary. As you say and I said earlier in regards to this topic it’s all about the overall army composition and points. Will it be a good army...I would say yes as I think most of their recent books have been good. Will it be OP we will see and similar to Fyreslayers it maybe very battleplan dependant, hermdar lords of the lodge on a mission with just a couple of objectives is super good on spread out multi objective battle plans not so much. From what we have seen previewed my gut feeling is their weakness will be model count and speed to play objectives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aezeal Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 4 hours ago, Sleboda said: Powercreep is an illusion. Meta is a prefix for other words, not a word in its own right. And, for good measure, NMM is wrong. Lastly, my lawn is not to be walked upon. That all said, I would love it if this army is totally OP. After decades of suffering with the weakest army ever in Warhammer, the Tomb Kings (especially that last version that was burped up by the worst Warhammer designer ever to write a fantasy rule, Robin Cruddace*), I would really enjoy a nice stretch of time being "rewarded" for my suffering. 😁 *From what I understand, he's a perfectly nice person. It's just that he had zero understanding of Warhammer or the Tomb Kings when he was assigned their book and it showed massively. That book was the single worst Warhammer Armies book ever written, from a the rules perspective. Who are these tomb kings and what do they have to do with the bone reapers? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Aezeal said: Who are these tomb kings and what do they have to do with the bone reapers? Oh, I'm with ya. These are not Tomb Kings (though I certainly understand the comparisons). I'm just saying that I would rather enjoy having a great army after having such a horrible one (rules-wise) for so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Smooth criminal said: Bonecast is a good nickname for them, No. Really it's not. That insulting and belittling to the designers and the work they did on them. I really don't get why people feel this compulsion to change the names on things in this hobby. Edited October 26, 2019 by Sleboda 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrix Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Sleboda said: No. Really it's not. That insulting and belittling to the designers and the work they did on them. I really don't get why people feel this compulsion to change the names on things in this hobby. The proper term is Bone Daddies. 2 5 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satyrical Sophist Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 41 minutes ago, Forrix said: The proper term is Bone Daddies. Unless they were the Crematorium Bone Daddies, then it's the Splody Bone Daddies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbanks Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 3 hours ago, Sleboda said: No. Really it's not. That insulting and belittling to the designers and the work they did on them. I really don't get why people feel this compulsion to change the names on things in this hobby. Sigmar takes souls and "reforges" them into a new body with gold plated armor. Based on experience, this may be stripping their personality from them. Nagash takes souls and "reforges" them into a new body made of bone. Based on experience, this may be stripping their personality from them. I'm pretty sure the designers would step back from this and say "Yea, that's the irony of the Bonereapers." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigwarus Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 I understand that we have to wait for points but the statement that you cannot judge an army by realise is plain wrong. When I read the slaanesh rules I saw the problems instantly and the same goes for warclans ironjaw spam or FEC gristlegore. I dont understand why people still claims that you need to play them to say it. Any somewhat experienced player will draw the conclusions at eyesight from the tome alone. The sky aint falling but Im worried about power creep. Soon the we will reach the sky and the need for a total reboot will increase. The basic troops need to cost like 180 for 10 and i doubt they will cost more thank 140. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwabbele Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 6 hours ago, Sleboda said: No. Really it's not. That insulting and belittling to the designers and the work they did on them. I really don't get why people feel this compulsion to change the names on things in this hobby. Whoa calm down 😂 bone daddy’s surely won’t mind if we call em that right bone cast‘s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InSaint Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 The products must sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordrim Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 6 hours ago, Sleboda said: No. Really it's not. That insulting and belittling to the designers and the work they did on them. I really don't get why people feel this compulsion to change the names on things in this hobby. Insulting and belittling? God forbids anyone use humor with their fair criticism, its 2019 surely we are beyond criticism and humour by now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefury Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charleston Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) After watching the first Batrep on GMG I must say I am honestly underwhelmed by OBR. Edit: @Battlefury ninjad me with the perfect post Thanks mate! Edited October 26, 2019 by Charleston 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefury Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) Prediction: We gonna see that one enclave with +1 save thingy in combination with battleline and guardian spam. There will be that catapult a lot of times and those support heroes, like to one with the contract. Result: An army with almost everything a 3+ save, rerolling all save fot the battleline, bringing back models over and over agains. It will be an army where people will not be able to wipe units. The army itself is cool in itself, but bad balanced into the rest of the armies imo. Seeing a powercreep right there. BUT: In some cases the army lacks good artefacts, general abilites & those choosables. Just as I see within other books that are being released, there will be that one and only playstyle, that will grant a solid performance, wich buggs me for toher armies too. For me it seems a little like GW just wants to dish out those releases, without fleshing out those books for several different playstyles that much, wich is a bummer imo. Edited October 26, 2019 by Battlefury 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 What I can see is that many of the units come with a very high points cost. Even your basic cavalry and infantry are very costly. 14 Riders for 480 and 40 guard for 440. Those are big and significant costs. Even most of the elite warriors are in the 200 points for 2 or 3 slot. Though the trebuchet is nicely priced at 200. So yes they are hard to kill and can be brought back to life, but they are giong to have to be careful how they deploy to avoid getting hamstrung with too few models on the table. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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