The Rumour Thread

[Enoby]

I'd like TOW to do well, and I'm looking forward to see what's coming up, but I'm unsure FW will be making a full Fantasy remake off the bat. We don't really know what it'll be, but at the same time it's going to be really hard to meet the expectations of players. For example, will we get Brettonia remade, or will we get some conversion pieces for existing Empire models? I'd hope for an actual release for the army, but we don't know what we'll get and we could get massively disappointed if we hype ourselves too much. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

7 minutes ago, Greybeard86 said:

CoS being the most popular army (or among the top)

I hear people say this all the time, but have never seen a source for it. Does anybody know the data this is based on?

[Greybeard86]

Just now, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I hear people say this all the time, but have never seen a source for it. Does anybody know the data this is based on?

Last I checked, it was compilations of events data. But I do not have the reference at hand, sorry.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 minutes ago, Greybeard86 said:

Last I checked, it was compilations of events data. But I do not have the reference at hand, sorry.

That's what I though. No doubt that data is meaningful to a degree, but I wonder how well tournament representation translates to sales. I'd guess a lot of those armies are Warhammer Fantasy armies that were converted over, which would mean fewer sales of new models. Still, it's a large install base of people who might be interested in new Cities models.

[Greybeard86]

2 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

That's what I though. No doubt that data is meaningful to a degree, but I wonder how well tournament representation translates to sales. I'd guess a lot of those armies are Warhammer Fantasy armies that were converted over, which would mean fewer sales of new models. Still, it's a large install base of people who might be interested in new Cities models.

Part of the reason why I think they keep deleting old models, to make people switch. The other being that apparently they can't protect the IP for models they don't produce (read about this recently), but don't quote me on this.

In any case, I think that if they provided new models for "classic" ranges a lot of people would still buy them. IMHO, nothing cooler than combining old and new sculpts for an army that stands out. Though maybe not everyone feels the same! What can I say, I who got an isle of blood griffon and the old Karl Franz metal rider to combine them into a "griffon general".

Cross comaptibility will be crucial, IMO, to determine the success of the TOW. I wonder how many people are happy sitting on piles of expensive resin now that 30k has all but died as a widespread system.

[Souleater]

Man, when this turns out to be a mobile CCG people are going to be mad. (Joking, just for clarity)

I still think this is going to be more along the lines of Warmaster with groups of models being on square bases.

Unless by then FW are doing plastics rather than resin units. They* are getting some experience with stuff like Necromunda, Titanicus, etc

So by the time it drops, the FW arm of GW can churn out plastic armies at a fast enough rate not to stifle the game in it's infancy.

28mm in resin sounds worryingly expensive. Prohibitively so for many.

*I know GW and FW are two heads of the single serpent. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Souleater

[Doko]

54 minutes ago, Greybeard86 said:

Now, what do people want? Honestly, I think a lot of people want to revisit old themes and armies with a mixture of new and old sculpts. I think most want square bases and not a skirmish game. And, as long as there is enough people willing to pay for it, GW seems happy to provide.

I hope they allow for some cross-compatibility for the new and likely expensive units, though.

I hope be 100% plastic as necromunda or i wont buy nothing of resin.

Also i havent too much hopes,im happy with two plastic units of dwarfs,humans,high elf and wood elfs. Great to mix with my citys army

[Nezzhil]

The King of Bretonnia presented in the article was the king during the events that occurred in 2200... that means that Old World happens 300 years before the Fantasy classic game. That means that the Empire is at the Civil War, the events of Mordheim are in fact active in this years, the gunpowder weapons are strange in the Empire, the Magic College was founded 100 years after.

If someone wants to play their old armies would be a letdown with this premise.

[shinros]

5 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:

The King of Bretonnia presented in the article was the king during the events that occurred in 2200... that means that Old World happens 300 years before the Fantasy classic game. That means that the Empire is at the Civil War, the events of Mordheim are in fact active in this years, the gunpowder weapons are strange in the Empire, the Magic College was founded 100 years after.

If someone wants to play their old armies would be a letdown with this premise.

Yup, some people think it's going to be exactly like whfb. GW wants people to buy whole new armies. What will make or break the project iny my opinion is the scale and price of the models.

[Greybeard86]

6 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:

The King of Bretonnia presented in the article was the king during the events that occurred in 2200... that means that Old World happens 300 years before the Fantasy classic game. That means that the Empire is at the Civil War, the events of Mordheim are in fact active in this years, the gunpowder weapons are strange in the Empire, the Magic College was founded 100 years after.

If someone wants to play their old armies would be a letdown with this premise.

We'll see, it is not like they never retconned stuff before. I would be extremely surprised if part of the appear wasn't to use some old sculpts of iconic characters and units, even if it is as counts as.

If I were them, I'd switch between new sculpts and limited edition runs of old ones. They cannot flesh out the range that fast, otherwise you get AoS like armies with extremely limited choices.

The Bret and Kislev inclusion seems to indicate that they will pay homage to some good old niche armies that had cult following. Good for them!

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Mutton said:

I'm really curious how they plan to go about Old World. I'm not particularly interested in it as a game, but as a business model. Do they really plan to support three giant wargames in addition to their smaller skirmish games? Will it have as much or less focus than 40k or AoS? How much will it split the player base? How many new models are they going to push for it specifically? All questions we can't answer right now, but are all similarly important.

I also think Old World lovers are going to hype themselves into the grave when it doesn't live up to impossible expectations.

To the second part I fully expect the same. 

to the first we can only speculate. But what happened when they did the whole Horus heresy thing? 
Did I read it right that GW is ‘reclaiming’ forgeworld in some way? 
could it just be that, forgeworld models but with backing of GW. At least marketing wise. 

 

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, Charleston said:

I´m afraid that the project is already doomed to frustration by the community from day one. People currently hype it and create expectations. There is no way GW will satisfy everyone. The more GW heats the hype train, the more frustration we will see day one. All could be stopped/prevented with a simple design manifesto, telling us what the heck we are actually about to expect

It worked for the lady space marines I think? (Forgot the name sorry about that) 

[Charleston]

1 hour ago, Greybeard86 said:

CoS being the most popular army (or among the top) means, perhaps, that many of the current AoS players have their roots in the Old World. The IP is strong, being more relatable is a strong value, and I honestly think they thought that it wouldn't hold up so well unsupported.

Now, what do people want? Honestly, I think a lot of people want to revisit old themes and armies with a mixture of new and old sculpts. I think most want square bases and not a skirmish game. And, as long as there is enough people willing to pay for it, GW seems happy to provide.

I hope they allow for some cross-compatibility for the new and likely expensive units, though.

Thats what my post was about to point out: We do not know much about the game.

Will it be rank and file? Or a Skirmish? Will it be 28mm heroic scale? Will it be bigger, as AoS and 40k models tend toward in recent design? Or will it be a smaller scale like LotR, which improves the rank and file feeling due to smaller miniatures at cost of single model detail? Will it be square or round bases? Regiment bases? Will it be a new 4th main-system? Or a specialist game? Will heroes have a great role? Or a smaller one? How about magic? Will Skaven and Lizzardmen return? And what about Chaos? Will there be some sort of cross-compatibility of models? Or none at all? *

Currently there is a lot of room for desires to flourish. Some may be inspired by old WHFB and golden memories. Others may be inspired by the awesome feel of Total War:Warhammer 1+2. And it is great to have some room for wishes and desires, especially in such cursed times as the current. But from experience I would fear that many of thoose wishes will turn into frustration when not fulfilled by GW. That´s why I really hope that GW keeps us up to date with what to expect.

* Propably some of thoose questions were already answered by gw. If so, I am always eager to hear!

[Matrindur]

Did they ever actually say The Old World is going to be a normal 28mm game?  Could it turn out to be something like Epic was for 40k?

The smaller scale would both make it need less sculpting work as it would be hard for Forgeworld to make as many new kits as you would need for all those old armies and I can't see them using too many old models again as they would want you to buy new stuff.

It would also make it way less expensive to get together full armies, I wasn't in the hobby when Fantasy was still around but as far as I know a reason it died was that it had a pretty high hurdle of entry in cost and number of models which a smaller scale would help to alleviate. 

Maybe not as small as Epic was but still smaller than 28mm?

[Nezzhil]

 

I posted this in the SoB thread but I think it is important. The SoB article is not a Tome Celestial article so it implies the absence new rules for them.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Nezzhil

[Sance]

I remember warmaster miniature when i went to a GW shop when i was a kid.

8mm scale is awful to paint imho. I'm not touching this game if it's less than 28mm in scale (well maybe 15mm is okay ? Joan of Arc is 15mm, it's fine but it's less exciting than 28/32mm like AoS)

Edited December 28, 2020 by Sance

[GenericEdgyName]

I remember that before it was even announced, as a teaser GW posted on fb a picture of a square base with text saying: 'everything comes around. Even squares'. I used to think it means rank and file with square bases, though thinking about it now it seems like the opposite. Unfortunately I can't find that post and my memory is cloudy, so take it with a grain of salt.

Personally I'd obviously prefer  round bases allowing to use OW models in AoS and vice versa. Also, I hope so much they'll make new Tomb Kings. Would be an insta buy from me

[Benkei]

I would love an AoSified take for Bretonnia better than this OW thing, I bet it would look awesome

[Jefferson Skarsnik]

I think the amount of people that would just sigh and nope out straight away if it turned out to be Epic scale would be prohibitive. It also doesn't really suit GW's current marketing model if the new mini they have to hype is a plastic block of tiny infantry with little detail, unless I'm underestimating what they could do technically now

[Sance]

38 minutes ago, GenericEdgyName said:

I remember that before it was even announced, as a teaser GW posted on fb a picture of a square base with text saying: 'everything comes around. Even squares'. I used to think it means rank and file with square bases, though thinking about it now it seems like the opposite. Unfortunately I can't find that post and my memory is cloudy, so take it with a grain of salt.

Personally I'd obviously prefer  round bases allowing to use OW models in AoS and vice versa. Also, I hope so much they'll make new Tomb Kings. Would be an insta buy from me

I mean , they can sell square movement tray so you can take your miniatures for AoS or Old World.

I think that would be the smartest thing to do. They can sell more accessories, and people jumping from one game system to another (and buy twice the books).

Nostalgia is fine and everything, but i hate square base

[Beliman]

42 minutes ago, Benkei said:

I would love an AoSified take for Bretonnia better than this OW thing, I bet it would look awesome

Me too. I'm not a fun of their design but happy for the people that will enjoy our medieval dudes.

It could be worst... like elfs

[Morglum StormBasha]

To make The Old World Playable on release they probably need at least 4 factions at launch maybe more.

Existing model lines which I think would be ready for 2200 straight away

dark elves (just need special characters)

high elves (just need special characters)

lizardmen

wood elves

Vampire counts (just need a new Vlad model)

nightgoblins and savage orruks.

ogor kingdoms 

so that’s at least 7 factions 

but they’d have to redo Empire and Bretonnia completely and i expect the “new armies” needed to sell the game will be 

kislev

norsca

new brets 

new empire

new Orcs and Goblins

[Dreddships]

I dont know why, but I have a sneaking suspicion that, to try and offset the, ugh, complete financial failure that WFB 8th was and seeing the success of AOS, GW might call Old World to operate in an AOS Circle base format and not the WFB Rank-And-File format...

And that where as I for one like that, it'll cause an absolute scream from the Oldhammer crew who see Old World as GW bringing back WFB ?

[Clan's Cynic]

4 hours ago, Charleston said:

I´m afraid that the project is already doomed to frustration by the community from day one. People currently hype it and create expectations. There is no way GW will satisfy everyone. The more GW heats the hype train, the more frustration we will see day one. All could be stopped/prevented with a simple design manifesto, telling us what the heck we are actually about to expect

I don't think even GW know exactly what it's going to be yet.

16 minutes ago, Dreddships said:

I dont know why, but I have a sneaking suspicion that, to try and offset the, ugh, complete financial failure that WFB 8th was and seeing the success of AOS, GW might call Old World to operate in an AOS Circle base format and not the WFB Rank-And-File format...

And that where as I for one like that, it'll cause an absolute scream from the Oldhammer crew who see Old World as GW bringing back WFB ?

WHFB was still turning a profit for GW, it just wasn't the profit they wanted. Remember that everything - including 40k - was haemorrhaging them money around that time. My suspicion is that GW's very aggressive release schedule in the last few years was in a big way brought about at their surprise End Time releases were selling out within minutes - they realised too late that if you let armies languish for years and years without a release, they aren't going to get as much money from them.

Releasing WHFB on round bases (without square trays) is pretty much redundant, because they've already got a round-base skirmish fantasy game and it's called Age of Sigmar (which is using many of it's old kits).

I've said it before, but the timing of their announcement being right as Kings of War third edition was coming out, as well as their breaking their rule on "don't show anything off until it's almost out the door" by literal years, as well as the square base shown, makes it pretty apparent in my eyes that it won't be rounds.

1 hour ago, Benkei said:

I would love an AoSified take for Bretonnia better than this OW thing, I bet it would look awesome

A big part of Bretonnia's appeal is that it's as close to a generic knights-in-shining-armour medieval army as you can get. AoSfying them is sort of defeating the thematic point. It'd be like turning the Imperial Guard into Space Marines - people like them because of the normality. 

1 hour ago, GenericEdgyName said:

Personally I'd obviously prefer  round bases allowing to use OW models in AoS and vice versa. Also, I hope so much they'll make new Tomb Kings. Would be an insta buy from me

I think they'll be on round bases you slot into square trays ALA War of the Ring, A Song of Ice & Fire and Conquest. That way they might be mixable with AoS (although I feel by that point CoS stuff will have been updated to be very AoSified) and/or they can be used in a sort of Kill-Team-esq 'skirmish' (as in low model) style game. Rounds-into-slots also leaves more space between the individual models, allowing for a bit more dynamic designs than marching/standing on parade.

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Clan's Cynic

[Dreddships]

49 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I think they'll be on round bases you slot into square trays ALA War of the Ring, A Song of Ice & Fire and Conquest. That way they might be mixable with AoS (although I feel by that point CoS stuff will have been updated to be very AoSified) and/or they can be used in a sort of Kill-Team-esq 'skirmish' (as in low model) style game. Rounds-into-slots also leaves more space between the individual models, allowing for a bit more dynamic designs than marching/standing on parade.

A mild throwback but if anyone remembers War of the Ring, when they had rank and file gameplay for LOTR SBG, GW had those exact trays too, so it's not as if they would have to make a new product - just get back to it and make more of those.

--

With the Bretonnia AOS premise, I feel like unless they fit into a space between CoS and Stormcast, I don't know. We have our guys clad head to toe in armour and our 'normal' humans.

That being said -

Replace Horses with Unicorns - remove the Peasantry/Feudal dynamic and ham up the Arthurian 'Mortal Men doing Mythological things', throw in some lore about that separates an Order Human faction from CoS and boom. 

Keep the Pegasus Knights tho... Pegasus Knights were cool