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2 hours ago, Nos said:

Yes, exactly. They continue to make the best models. They dont fall out of the sky. They make that product, which is what people want, and pay increasing sums year on year for. 

It's less to do with the models, so much as it is sheer player numbers. Wargaming is a very expensive hobby, one which the vast majority of people get into via Warhammer - except for historicals which is a whole other beast - and once there, are very reluctant to try other games because they've already invested so much and know that GW's core games will always have a playerbase for this reason. Tabletop wargaming by its nature is a social hobby that requires other people. This creates a vicious cycle where people don't try, or don't stick with, alternative games because GW purchases are a 'safe bet'.

It's also why the whole "if you don't like the new edition none's taking away your rules!" argument doesn't really work, because most people don't want to be left behind no matter how much they prefer what came before, so inevitably buckle to the trend. The fanbase is so notoriously negative - less so here, but you know hat I mean - elsewhere because a large number of people would be much happier playing other, more balanced, better written, cheaper rulesets but know they play a GW game or don't play at all. This is where GW's sort-of-but-not-literally a monopoly comes from.

GW do arguably produce the highest quality models (in my opinion their designs are overdesigned tripe more often than not), but if GW were in a second or third position to another wargame in terms of popularity, chances are that the poorer models of another company would be selling better just by virtue of that game overall being more popular. It's a shame because competition IS healthy and GW have the resources to make good on improvements if they cared to, but why bother hiring proper editors for their notoriously error-ridden and Day 1 FAQ necessary books when people happily buy them, warts and all anyway?

Edited by Clan's Cynic
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I've been working on a spreadsheet for warscrolls, what kit makes them, and the material/age of the kit to try and figure out what armies need updating the most and heres a rough overview of what ive

Am I the only one mad the OBR are getting regular archers? GW had the opportunity to create a unit called Crossbonemen and they didn't take it.

hey don’t be sorry, it’s always helpful when people reveal exactly what kind of person they really are.

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1 minute ago, James101 said:

Does anybody know what the ETA is for the update for the post-Cities factions who weren’t expressly updated in GHB2020?

Nope. It's what we've been discussing the previous couple days, GW has said nothing about it.

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2 hours ago, hwd48 said:

Not sure is this is the right place to ask, but have the mercenary companies been dropped in GHB2020?

I can't seem to find them on the warscroll builder thingy...

** They have and I am furious about it.

 

Edit: ** apparently

Edited by JackStreicher
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21 hours ago, Gistradagis said:

People are saying it looks like Lelith Hesperax, but I wanna be naive and say Dark Elves are coming!

they say it but i agree too with you, that hook is planted into flesh in my opinion

AND

that genre of tail is the same of plenty new releases : ossiarch hero on steed with double tail, deepkin hero on big goldfish narvalo ecc, similar tail pose

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19 minutes ago, calcysimon said:

they say it but i agree too with you, that hook is planted into flesh in my opinion

AND

that genre of tail is the same of plenty new releases : ossiarch hero on steed with double tail, deepkin hero on big goldfish narvalo ecc, similar tail pose

The Tenabrael Shaed has remarkably similar hook hair

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6 hours ago, Chikout said:

The trouble is that we know from an original flyer that 40k is launching a month late. Since gw was closed for 2 months it means 40k jumped the queue by a month, It has probably pulled the marine and Necron releases along with it, so anything that was originally intended to arrive before 40k now has to wait until 9th edition, the new marines and the new necrons have come out. It means we are going to have a long wait for those AOS releases. 

It's a shame really but I understand seeing as itll be their biggest money maker this year and the UK is set for a second wave of Covid and if that means another lockdown you dont want your flagship product being delayed. Still I think there is room enough for the Sons, it's one new kit, one repackaged kit and a Battletome and Warscroll cards. A very small release.

6 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

Looking forward to them as well, at least to get 1 big guy for my StD army, they even show that in the new GHB on images, however no info on how they fit in as allies/mercs yet, I need to know! 

I can see a problem with people wanting to get into the army as a whole, unless GW pulls some kind of stunt, it looks like their stunted factories will have major issues with enough of the small gargant kits, they are already sold out as is everywhere.

We can only hope they make some kind of 3 gargant Sons kit and surprise everyone with that and a decent value, that would be sweet ;)

I'm still hoping for a King Brodd in a year or so, maybe with their 3.0 Battletome in a couple years with King Brodd coming out of hiding to rally the Sons.

Edited by KingBrodd
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14 hours ago, KingBrodd said:

Sons of Behemat!! What release date are we realistically looking at here? August or September? July is going to be dominated by 9th but will August be as well?

My money would be on early August. I know they want to get 40k stuff out the door but I imagine they'll give the players a week of breathing room after needing to buy all the new books and indomitus.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Sons of Behemat announcement on sunday, but it might be more likely that we get a specialist games release since some of those have been dragging for a while as well.

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5 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

It's also why the whole "if you don't like the new edition none's taking away your rules!" argument doesn't really work, because most people don't want to be left behind no matter how much they prefer what came before, so inevitably buckle to the trend. The fanbase is so notoriously negative - less so here, but you know hat I mean - elsewhere because a large number of people would be much happier playing other, more balanced, better written, cheaper rulesets but know they play a GW game or don't play at all. This is where GW's sort-of-but-not-literally a monopoly comes from.

Sorry, but I just figured I'd chime in here for a second. I did feel very similarly once and actually got so fed up with GW and their system that I departed for what I believed to be greener pastures. I totally abandoned GW tried out their main competitor for about 5 years and researched a number of other games and companies. The main thing I discovered? Everyone else is pretty much the same. Every company botches releases, every company makes mistakes, every company has their eyes focused on the bottom line one way or another. No matter how much you hear about other games being balanced, there are still balance issues present no matter where you go and the further you dig into a game the more evident it becomes. In the end I came back to GW because I realized that if every game is unbalanced, and every company is only out to make money in the end, then I might as well play a game that looked amazing and I enjoyed playing (for a variety of factors I won't bother going into). Just my humble opinion I guess.

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5 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

** They have and I am furious about it.

 

Edit: ** apparently

Yeah that's BS.  I didn't really mind that they simplified the realm rules (realmscape feature were too random, and the malign sorcery artifacts were too wild in their power levels), and I didn't really mind that they took away the new triumphs, but they really shouldn't take away rules that I actually had to buy models for, especially after only introducing them a year ago.  It seriously makes me doubt purchasing any models for the sake of a GHB rule in the future.  Blacksmoke Battery was so much fun in Greywater Fastness!

Also, does anyone know if the three new command abilities introduced in the GHB 2019 are still legal?  All-out Defence, All-out Attack, and Volley Fire?  Mine doesn't get here till tomorrow.  Did they also do away with the new terrain tokens from GHB 2019 (volcanic, entangled, commanding, healing, etc)?

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2 minutes ago, willange said:

Yeah that's BS.  I didn't really mind that they simplified the realm rules (realmscape feature were too random, and the malign sorcery artifacts were too wild in their power levels), and I didn't really mind that they took away the new triumphs, but they really shouldn't take away rules that I actually had to buy models for, especially after only introducing them a year ago.  It seriously makes me doubt purchasing any models for the sake of a GHB rule in the future.  Blacksmoke Battery was so much fun in Greywater Fastness!

Also, does anyone know if the three new command abilities introduced in the GHB 2019 are still legal?  All-out Defence, All-out Attack, and Volley Fire?  Mine doesn't get here till tomorrow.  Did they also do away with the new terrain tokens from GHB 2019 (volcanic, entangled, commanding, healing, etc)?

Command abilities and terrain is the same I think, but I didn`t look that hard at terrain rules so maybe there were some small changes.

Regarding mercenaries, they were from the start in narrative section, weren`t they? So never were legal for matched play IIRC?

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3 minutes ago, Boar said:

Regarding mercenaries, they were from the start in narrative section, weren`t they? So never were legal for matched play IIRC?

No they were actually one of the "major features" of matched play in both Forbidden Power and GHB 2019.  They were fully legal for matched in the azyr app and warscroll builder.

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3 minutes ago, willange said:

No they were actually one of the "major features" of matched play in both Forbidden Power and GHB 2019.  They were fully legal for matched in the azyr app and warscroll builder.

Theyre actually in the narrative play section of GHB2019, whilst they could be used in matched play they were introduced in the narrative play section

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Just now, Melcavuk said:

Theyre actually in the narrative play section of GHB2019, whilst they could be used in matched play they were introduced in the narrative play section

Ah makes sense.  I guess I was thinking of the preview articles for Forbidden Power then where it was billed as one of the major new systems.  Regardless, I'm still sort of mad at myself (and GW) that I went a bought an organ gun and cannon.  At least I didn't overpay for them.

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26 minutes ago, Boar said:

Regarding mercenaries, they were from the start in narrative section, weren`t they? So never were legal for matched play IIRC?

They were legal for matched play, even though they were introduced outside that section. They even had specific mentions for how you spent your points on them (which wouldn't matter if they were narrative only).

Edited by Grdaat
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45 minutes ago, willange said:

Yeah that's BS.  I didn't really mind that they simplified the realm rules (realmscape feature were too random, and the malign sorcery artifacts were too wild in their power levels), and I didn't really mind that they took away the new triumphs, but they really shouldn't take away rules that I actually had to buy models for, especially after only introducing them a year ago.  It seriously makes me doubt purchasing any models for the sake of a GHB rule in the future.  Blacksmoke Battery was so much fun in Greywater Fastness!

Also, does anyone know if the three new command abilities introduced in the GHB 2019 are still legal?  All-out Defence, All-out Attack, and Volley Fire?  Mine doesn't get here till tomorrow.  Did they also do away with the new terrain tokens from GHB 2019 (volcanic, entangled, commanding, healing, etc)?

the generic cmd abilities are still there. the realm ones has changed

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3 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

My money would be on early August. I know they want to get 40k stuff out the door but I imagine they'll give the players a week of breathing room after needing to buy all the new books and indomitus.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Sons of Behemat announcement on sunday, but it might be more likely that we get a specialist games release since some of those have been dragging for a while as well.

If they announced them on Sunday for early August release I would be over the moon!!

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Regarding Warscroll Builder. It's been updated with the information currently available to everyone. So WD battalions are still in and mercenaries are currently out, because the FAQ hasn't been released to confirm either one's existence yet. Current Lumineth points have been included because they have been published in the limited edition battletome. Once the FAQ is out, it will get updated again. 

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5 hours ago, Grimrock said:

Sorry, but I just figured I'd chime in here for a second. I did feel very similarly once and actually got so fed up with GW and their system that I departed for what I believed to be greener pastures. I totally abandoned GW tried out their main competitor for about 5 years and researched a number of other games and companies. The main thing I discovered? Everyone else is pretty much the same. Every company botches releases, every company makes mistakes, every company has their eyes focused on the bottom line one way or another. No matter how much you hear about other games being balanced, there are still balance issues present no matter where you go and the further you dig into a game the more evident it becomes. In the end I came back to GW because I realized that if every game is unbalanced, and every company is only out to make money in the end, then I might as well play a game that looked amazing and I enjoyed playing (for a variety of factors I won't bother going into). Just my humble opinion I guess.

Of course no game is perfect, the difference is that compared to the vast majority of other offerings out there GW's definitely take the mick. And I've also played many other systems and found most of them at least as an enjoyable and, more often than not, much more fun and better designed. Other games have their internal balance issues also, but rarely to the point where huge chunks of armies are outright useless when going up again entire armies as if often the case in 40k and AoS. Those other games can't afford to mess up or they'll swiftly be binned and forgotten. This rule isn't even restricted to non-GW games given how swiftly the scene for War Cry and Aeronica Imperialis tried up around here, not that it even took off (heh) at all really, arguably for the same reason other games don't.

I could forgive GW for that if they were two mates working out the back of their garage, but they're not. They're an extremely profitable company who know they don't need to invest in so much as editors and proper translations of their product because if there's one thing GW's fanbae is, it's very, very, very forgiving and GW knows it. If those other games keep making mistakes? They almost never get given a second chance. Look at Privateer Press' botched launch of MK3 - they never recovered from it despite them having now pretty widely regarded as having sorted the issues out. Games Workshop? They can cripple multiple editions, kill off flagship games and squat units/armies on a whim, but none bats an eyelid for more than a few weeks, it's as much fascinating as it is baffling.

Hell, even I'm guilty of it by virtue of having AoS models at all, even if most of that is holdovers from WHFB.

I don't want to sound like a negative nancy (although I'd not have chosen my username if I wasn't more than most people here). but it's a damn shame GW doesn't realise they could claw even more people back from elsewhere if they paid more attention to their quality control.

Edited by Clan's Cynic
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Do you guys think Scions of Flame will come out on his own or with the new “season” of Warcry? It is possible the next wave is a mixed one as we know only Daughters of Khaine so far for order...

Either way unless Season 4 of Warhammer Underworld is greatly delayed or cancelled (no reason to believe that), then the next wave of WU warbands should come out in august to give a bit of distance from season 4 late September or most likely moved to October. Reason it may not move too much is because seasonal releases like this are better kept fixed in time to avoid having a season longer or shorter than another.

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10 minutes ago, alghero81 said:

Do you guys think Scions of Flame will come out on his own or with the new “season” of Warcry? It is possible the next wave is a mixed one as we know only Daughters of Khaine so far for order...

Either way unless Season 4 of Warhammer Underworld is greatly delayed or cancelled (no reason to believe that), then the next wave of WU warbands should come out in august to give a bit of distance from season 4 late September or most likely moved to October. Reason it may not move too much is because seasonal releases like this are better kept fixed in time to avoid having a season longer or shorter than another.

Scions were shown off before the new DoK for Warcry right? My guess is they'll be sooner rather than later and serve as a filler week at some point after the launch of 9th and either the Space Marine/Necron 'dex (sorry Brodd).

At this point I'm not expecting the new Underworlds season until at least October as we haven't had the DoK/Ironjawz Warbands release yet and we've otherwise not heard a single peep about it. On the other hand Beastgrave and Nightvault were both mid-September release so it's entirely possible they try and keep to that trend.

Edited by Clan's Cynic
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42 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Of course no game is perfect, the difference is that compared to the vast majority of other offerings out there GW's absolutely take the mick. And I've also played many other systems and found most of them at least as an enjoyable and, more often than not, much more fun. Unfortunately the playerbases just aren't there when everybody comes crawling back to GW when the numbers dry up. This isn't even restricted to GW's own products - the life span of most of their non-core offerings tends to be finite, or else have a pretty scattered and small playerbase.

Well, fun is pretty relative but I don't disagree with you that it was fun to change it up. I had lots of fun playing different games and it seemed like a breath of fresh air every time the smaller company did something I knew the giant corporation never would. But like I said, the more I dug into it and the longer I spent playing the game the more obvious the similarities became. The game that was supposedly one of the most balanced games in the business had matchups where an entire faction simply had no answer. Background was ignored or botched entirely in the interest of improving sales. Models were invalidated with newer releases and the lower powered stuff was left to languish in obscurity. It certainly took a few years to come to the realization, but there wasn't any avoiding it when I did.  Also I'm sure you're not referencing me, but just to be clear I didn't have issues with playerbase. There was and still is a solid following for the other game in my area. 

Anyway, this isn't rumor talk so I'll stop there. I'm really hoping we see some AoS stuff this weekend, or at least the FAQs for the missing point changes. I've got a 500 point hole in a project that I'm working on that has a Mega Gargant's name written all over it. 

Edited by Grimrock
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8 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Scions were shown off before the new DoK for Warcry right? My guess is they'll be sooner rather than later and serve as a filler week at some point after the launch of 9th and either the Space Marine/Necron 'dex (sorry Brodd).

At this point I'm not expecting the new Underworlds season until at least October as we haven't had the DoK/Ironjawz Warbands release yet and we've otherwise not heard a single peep about it. On the other hand Beastgrave and Nightvault were both mid-September release so it's entirely possible they try and keep to that trend.

I'll take any AOS release for the fans*, especially the Scions of the Flame as I know many have waited for the Warband for a long time!!

And the Warbands are perfect filler weeks to keep us Mortal Realms lovers entertained whilst 9th has it's time in the sun. 

I am excited to see where the next Underworlds season takes place. Hysh?

* Of course I'd love for the Sons to drop you know me.

Edited by KingBrodd
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