The Rumour Thread

[FFJump]

54 minutes ago, Overread said:

GW central doesn't sell Chaos Dwarves. Their central books have never referenced Forgeworld models - heck they often don't even remember they exist for marketing when they do a big faction launch event. 

 

The books having no references is not correct when it comes to the Chaos Dwarves. In fact, using a recent example, Katakros' background in the Bonereapears battletome involves two campaigns against the "infernal duardin" of Chaos as some of his achievements he's known for. I have the physical copy of the battletome, so this is a direct transcript from the tome:

"The next to feel Katakros' wrath was the Molten Horde of Hagran Four-Eye, an alliance of Chaos-worshipping tribes and infernal duardin that had taken nearby Praetories."

"In Anadiria, the Chaos-worshipping duardin of the Strangler's Peaks met their match against the Mortisan adepts of the Null Myriad. ...
Their legion's innate resistance to magic meaning the conjured lava of the duardin washed off them as if it were no more than seawater. The duardin looked to their supporting artillery emplacements in the Stranger's Peaks, but those were already being attacked from above by freshly-created Necropolis Stalkers..."

The newest STD battletome calls the Legion of Azgorh by name with one of the rewards for the Path to Glory campaign. Numerous other battletomes have references here and there to Azgorh by name or the molten hordes of the "infernal duardin".  Always small blurbs, but "never" is inaccurate. Though, it is a little odd using the term "infernal duardin" in some instances,  when in obvious reference to LoA going by descriptions. It kind of sounds like a placeholder name.

Edited January 30, 2020 by FFJump

[DatHomieSilverSurfer]

27 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Yeah I’m not really a fan of it either, considering how the skaven really could use a sub faction or a battailon that is worth it’s points. 
Considering  that we are in the year of the Rat and well, that the skaven haven’t gotten any replacement for their old, very old models, we might get lucky with a similar campaign book that features the rise of the great horned rat, and some duardin foe’s who seek to Take back what ones was their’s

imagine a book that Age of Sigmar'ed the War for K8P. Gloomspite vs Skaven vs Kharadron Overlords 

[Thiagoma]

33 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Yeah I’m not really a fan of it either, considering how the skaven really could use a sub faction or a battailon that is worth it’s points. 
Considering  that we are in the year of the Rat and well, that the skaven haven’t gotten any replacement for their old, very old models, we might get lucky with a similar campaign book that features the rise of the great horned rat, and some duardin foe’s who seek to Take back what ones was their’s

Do you think Skaven should be in Destruction? They always feel left out of Chaos inside their GA.

[Overread]

@FFJump as you were talking about rules and such so was I. GW books have always had lore of things that aren't even produced by GW nor FW and have done so for years. Sometimes its things like "skaven skyship raiders" which is basically an in-world hint at conversions people could do (putting skaven on KO airships). Meanwhile other times you get stories about models, monsters and more that simply never come to be. Old World had quite expensive stories which involved places like Araby, Cathay and Nippon and yet they never came to be. 

When it comes to rules, whilst GW has in the past had rules for things they didn't make (typically upgrades and hero variations) they never outright had rules for armies they never made. This is even more so now that they basically have a "no models no rules" policy. This is true for the two main games; games like Necromunda and such are a bit different in that they are technically FW department games so they do make use of the content made and sold on the FW website within teh core books. 

 

Basically you won't get official chaos dwarf rules until such time as GW central is making them. 

[Public Universal Duardin]

I wonder, @FFJump, whether they are occasionally 'infernal duardin' due to the chaos duardin units being named 'infernal guards'? Or maybe GW is planning to revamp them and release as plastic...atleast, a duardin can hope...

8 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

Do you think Skaven should be in Destruction? They always feel left out of Chaos inside their GA.

Not a very popular suggestion, and the two main arguments against that is A) The Great Horned Rat is very specifically the fifth chaos god and B) Skaven don't really fit next to Orks and grots either.

However, I have been feeling a while that Skaven feels like an outsider in GA: Chaos. They, as far as I know, rarely join forces with other Chaos-aligned armies and are generally doing their own thing. In many ways, they feel more like a force of Destruction who are naturally at each others' throats.

 

[Overread]

Skaven have always been Chaos even way back in the Old World. They are just related to Chaos differently and don't fit with the core four gods system. It's not out of the question for them to be a bit "oddball" within a grand alliance. Flesheaters are not bound to Nagash and he mostly only tries to push them in the right direction and hope they cause damage. Meanwhile Order is full of factions that are not running along happy holding hands with stormcast and sigmar. Heck the Idoneth actively raid other races for souls.

[FFJump]

11 minutes ago, Overread said:

@FFJump as you were talking about rules and such so was I. GW books have always had lore of things that aren't even produced by GW nor FW and have done so for years. Sometimes its things like "skaven skyship raiders" which is basically an in-world hint at conversions people could do (putting skaven on KO airships). Meanwhile other times you get stories about models, monsters and more that simply never come to be. Old World had quite expensive stories which involved places like Araby, Cathay and Nippon and yet they never came to be. 

When it comes to rules, whilst GW has in the past had rules for things they didn't make (typically upgrades and hero variations) they never outright had rules for armies they never made. This is even more so now that they basically have a "no models no rules" policy. This is true for the two main games; games like Necromunda and such are a bit different in that they are technically FW department games so they do make use of the content made and sold on the FW website within teh core books. 

 

Basically you won't get official chaos dwarf rules until such time as GW central is making them. 

Aha, I thought you meant in general there was no references. No, you're absolutely right when it comes to rules. Though, the old Citadel Journal and Chapter Approved had rules for FW stuff, and there were White Dwarf armies like the Vampire Coast which you had to convert entirely yourself, but I get your point. However, that may soon change with the announcement at the last LVO that the main studio is handling the new books for FW units and armies that replace the FW indices. That is for 40K though, not AoS.

[Overread]

Main studio has been handling FW rules for AoS for a long time as well - its just not loudly shouted about. Also I wouldn't get your hopes too far up - FW had dropped a lot of models over the last few months for AoS and some of the chaos dwarf stuff (there's at least one vehicle dropped and one out of stock that "might" drop). 

[mojojojo101]

1 hour ago, Overread said:

Basically you won't get official chaos dwarf rules until such time as GW central is making them. 

This might be a stupid question by why is the ForgeWorld stuff kept so seperate? I sort of understand having Titans and the other very large models off in their own section just for the most dedicated hobbyists but the whole thing just seems needlessly complicated to me. Is there actually anything stopping GW just taking Chaos Dwarfs off FW, making them in plastic  and putting them on the normal store other than the costs associated with any other new faction?

 

[Overread]

44 minutes ago, mojojojo101 said:

This might be a stupid question by why is the ForgeWorld stuff kept so seperate? I sort of understand having Titans and the other very large models off in their own section just for the most dedicated hobbyists but the whole thing just seems needlessly complicated to me. Is there actually anything stopping GW just taking Chaos Dwarfs off FW, making them in plastic  and putting them on the normal store other than the costs associated with any other new faction?

 

Basically Forgeworld was the boutique wing of the GW company. They hived it off mostly to allow creatives to work on models without being bound to the production demands of the main studio. In addition working with resin allows them to achieve a higher level of detail than metals or plastics and an increased number of potential casting angles (basically the way resin is cast allows you to do more undercuts and things which in metal and certainly in plastic, would require a lot more parts or VERY creative parting - which basically GW didn't have the latter until 3D designing software came along). 

Forgeworld could also produce models bigger and more expensive than the regular GW market. Way back 20-30 years ago your most expensive model might be a £30-5 ish priced dragon or greater demon (remember those were the old ones about the size of a demon prince). Otherwise everything was lower in price more or less. Of course armies were also a lot smaller and many models were sold on tehir own or in small packs etc.. The shift to plastic started GW along the path to more models in each box and toward larger armies steadily over the years.

 

 

The differences in price are far less today with GW central now bold enough to have £80 and higher models on sale and their company size means that they can invest in very expensive bigger moulds for big models in plastic. So many of your old GW standard "bigger" things are now not all that much bigger. Titans stil are more or less and GW still uses to produce models for a specialist market. 

 

It's basically a separate creative team that gets to do some of their own things. Nothing stops GW doing chaos dwarves on their own (and in the past they DID do them); however GW has managers and such and will make choices on what they do and don't make. It's also really hard as a customer, to have an idea what sells really well and badly with Forgeworld. Considering they sliced off a good 10 or more models form the AoS range (including things like the magma dragon and warpfire dragon and wolfrats) it might be that its not actually selling all that well enough for GW central to think its worth making an army. But its hard to say and sometimes it might just be that the right creative person hasn't got a desire to make something so it doesn't get made. 

[Sleboda]

17 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

metal is a wholly different technique, and I have to build stuff as described,

Kids today!

Back when metal was the material for pretty much everything, we converted models just fine, and with regularity. A small saw, a good blade, clippers, and files got the job done.

As to paint sticking, all you had to do was prime the model, just as we do today, and it stuck.

Plastic and resin are definitely easier to cut up, but I still preferred metal for most things.

To me the biggest advantage of plastic is the size of the model you can make. We never would have had the current Nagash and Archaon models in metal.

[MitGas]

7 hours ago, BaylorCorvette said:

So I think we're going to need an FAQ for the  that Varanguard one, since they get the Hero keyword you can give them the Sword of Judgement and all of a sudden a unit of Varanguard have 18 attacks and 6's do D6 mortal wounds to Hero's or Monsters or give the riders weapons -3 rend, etc. I wonder if only one model in the unit can use the artefact?

That's also exactly my first thought - some artefacts would be hella broken on a Varanguard unit.

[Inquisitorsz]

16 minutes ago, MitGas said:

That's also exactly my first thought - some artefacts would be hella broken on a Varanguard unit.

I think you'll find most artifacts specify "model" not "unit" 
so even if you give the unit an item, it's effect will probably only work on 1 of the 3 Varanguard. 
And weapons say things like "pick one of the bearer's melee weapons", so again I think this would refer to a single model and a single weapon profile not the whole unit.

The text also implies that there's a special 'bespoke" artifact table, so maybe they'll only be allowed items from there, Which may be worded differently. 

[Double Misfire]

5 hours ago, Austin said:

I was definitely hoping the book would have more options for non-Archaon chaos warrior builds. 

It does.

In god allegiance armies. 😁😉

[Austin]

1 minute ago, Double Misfire said:

It does.

In god allegiance armies. 😁😉

Why you gotta be so cruel?!

[Double Misfire]

1 minute ago, Austin said:

Why you gotta be so cruel?!

You haven't felt real neglect if you've not got a squat avatar in 2020. 🤗

[123lac]

6 hours ago, mojojojo101 said:

This book was billed as something that ALL Chaos players would be excited by. I know that is just marketing hype but it doesn't feel great that a book for ALL Chaos players seems to have absolutely no mention of Skaven, Beasts of Chaos or, god forbid, Chaos Dwarfs.

Oh well.

Literally no one plays Chaos Dwarves.

Beasts of Chaos players are used to neglect. If anything they are probably still recovering from the surprise of getting their battle tome, herdstone and endless spells. That should tide them over for the next 5 years at least.

Skaven I think GW just forgot that they are part of Chaos when they wrote this campaign book. To be fair, it is easy to forget about the rat men.

[Lorax]

41 minutes ago, 123lac said:

Literally no one plays Chaos Dwarves.

There are literally dozens of us!!!

 

In all seriousness I think the LoA rules are actually in an OK place, we are just more afraid that we are going to be squatted. 

[Icarion]

2 hours ago, 123lac said:

Oh well.

Literally no one plays Chaos Dwarves.

Beasts of Chaos players are used to neglect. If anything they are probably still recovering from the surprise of getting their battle tome, herdstone and endless spells. That should tide them over for the next 5 years at least.

Skaven I think GW just forgot that they are part of Chaos when they wrote this campaign book. To be fair, it is easy to forget about the rat men.

There are dozens on this forum alone. And I know of at least two chaos Dwarf players in my local meta in middle of nowhere Midwest. 
 

And, as for Beasts of Chaos, I suppose all those beautiful/powerful Tzaangor models don’t count against model “neglect” ?

 

Skaven have one of the single largest ranges, we can argue about sculpt quality and unit utility, but at the end of the day Skaven players are spoiled for choices compared to almost anyone except Stormcast. Btw, they were one of the best supported factions during the End times, getting loads of great new sculpts. That plus their new hero/terrain/endless spells puts them in a great place.

[zilberfrid]

5 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Kids today!

Back when metal was the material for pretty much everything, we converted models just fine, and with regularity. A small saw, a good blade, clippers, and files got the job done.

As to paint sticking, all you had to do was prime the model, just as we do today, and it stuck.

Plastic and resin are definitely easier to cut up, but I still preferred metal for most things.

To me the biggest advantage of plastic is the size of the model you can make. We never would have had the current Nagash and Archaon models in metal.

I know it's technically possible, but even (current) finecast is a dream to work with compared to my limited experience with metal, and does not lose material each cut.

As for paint, metal wears much faster, and strips much faster as well.

Edited January 31, 2020 by zilberfrid

[Skreech Verminking]

8 hours ago, Thiagoma said:

Do you think Skaven should be in Destruction? They always feel left out of Chaos inside their GA.

Nah

the skaven were always one of those forces that never really fit in any of these GA’s.

Chaos is probably the only one that just barely can contain those rats

[ManlyMuppet88]

At the risk of deviating the thread further.... Personally, I feel like Skaven need a slight tweak in lore so that the Horned Rat replaces Malal - that utter, unpredictable, mess everyones plans up kinda Chaos. They have the back-stabby vibes already.

[Skreech Verminking]

39 minutes ago, ManlyMuppet88 said:

At the risk of deviating the thread further.... Personally, I feel like Skaven need a slight tweak in lore so that the Horned Rat replaces Malal - that utter, unpredictable, mess everyones plans up kinda Chaos. They have the back-stabby vibes already.

I didn’t know that malal made it into the aos universe.

always thought he was one of those 40k gods 

[RuneBrush]

Malal doesn't exist within the canon anymore and hasn't due to some time because of copyright reasons

[Xelotath]

I hope Legion of Azgorh stay around, I love the aesthetic and it would be great if GW picked them up and did them in plastic. 
I imagine if they were to be squatted it’s because they’re not selling, but they’re likely not selling that well because people like me don’t trust Forgeworld to keep them around if I started building an army of them. 
Hard to trust that your models will stay useable when they seem to strip things from the range at random.