The Rumour Thread

[sandlemad]

2 hours ago, WarbossKurgan said:

The distance between places matters less than access to a Realmgate. The Free Cities have been built around defending important Realmgates. Trade and logistics are considered in the novels.

And the core rulebook, which brings it up with a surprising "look, we can write about logistics and trade too!" level of eagerness, probably in reaction to exactly the kind of stuff Ironbreaker brings up. The image of the realmgates of Ghur acting as colossal cross-realm portals for the massive quantities of red meat from mammoth beasts shipped out to other realms in return for stuff like fine weapons or rock salt is one that sticks with me.

RE: how close things are to other things, a lot of it is mapped, just in the same fashion as 40k. Here are is Shyish: https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Realm_of_Shyish You can tell how close or how far things are to the Nadir and Nagashizzar, and that is meaningful in itself. It is largely going to apply to your homebrew areas (just like the Whatever Sector in 40k) but then if you want the detail, you look at the Prime Innerlands.

There you can

• compare the locations to the timeline to see where events occurred and what battles were fought where, e.g. these coasts came under attack by Nurgle's plague fleets at the dawn of the age of chaos, this archipelago is gradually becoming more saturated with death magic
• see what are the cultures (the people of Hallost are resentful of Sigmar and are just across the straits from the ancestrally loyal Sigmarite city of Glymmsforge, Ossia looks to be ruled by Katakranos and will be developed in the next Death battletome but is very close to some of the only realmgates in the area, Lethis was a fishing-village-turned-city founded only a century ago by Azyrite colonists and covered in more detail in the Forbidden Power book)
• see what  what personalities are associated with where (here is Neferata's stronghold, there is Mannfred's abandoned kingdom)
• draw inferences that spark inspiration (here is an industrial ocean-city of chaos dwarfs not that far from a prominent Fyreslayer lodge, what's that all about?)

Like, it's there. The detail is mapped but not to the exclusion of other areas. You can see the relations between places, you can see what's up with different territories. It's done with a light touch often enough and with an eye towards opening up possibilities. It's clearly meant to be inspiration and representative of a larger world rather than being there to say 'no, you can't do this' (same approach as with Forge World's horus heresy stuff, the most rigorously defined pseudo-military historical approach anywhere in GW) but it's there and it's being added to consistently.

Even the plot of the Gloomspite novel hinged on the city's upriver proximity to Hammerhal Aqshy and what that meant for anyone who encroached upon it; geography as a narrative driver. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by sandlemad

[Mandano]

25 minutes ago, Carnelian said:

I read the last two pages but couldn't see - so you know when this is being released? I'll be buying it just for the lore

I believe spring of next year

[WarbossKurgan]

Just now, Mandano said:

I believe spring of next year

That matches the info given here:

https://www.cubicle7games.com/age-of-sigmar-update/

[Carnelian]

13 minutes ago, Mandano said:

I believe spring of next year

Toooooo looong

[Overread]

Speaking of too long - where's our Bonereaper Leaker (or the official unofficial GW Leaks Department). I'm in dire need of some Ossiarch leaks! Still a whole week until October and then even longer before perhaps even seeing a hint of them appearing!

[Chikout]

1 hour ago, Overread said:

Speaking of too long - where's our Bonereaper Leaker (or the official unofficial GW Leaks Department). I'm in dire need of some Ossiarch leaks! Still a whole week until October and then even longer before perhaps even seeing a hint of them appearing!

You won't hear another word about bonereapers until the preorder announcement which will be on the 13th or 20th of October after more marines and phoenix rises.

Regarding the lore , I'm not sure why people are so obsessed with lore and trade in AOS when it didn't seem to matter in the old world. I l know more about how the realm of death functions as a society than I ever did about Khemri.

Can anyone of the top of their head day what the major export of Altdorf was? I know that Hammerhall Gyran exports water. 

I know that the gloomspite gits covet glass objects because they don't have the ability to make them themselves. Does anyone know anything similar about old world goblins? 

As someone who was around for the early days of Warhammer and 40k , I feel that AOS is in a better state  lorewise than either of those games was after 3 years.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Chikout

[Walrustaco]

1 hour ago, Overread said:

Speaking of too long - where's our Bonereaper Leaker (or the official unofficial GW Leaks Department). I'm in dire need of some Ossiarch leaks! Still a whole week until October and then even longer before perhaps even seeing a hint of them appearing!

Frig off skeletor, I want a leaked two-page spread from the mawtribes book with brand new art of ogor mating rituals.

Your calcium-coated behind can get in line. I know you've been sprouting frankly upsetting lies about how I won't get my book until 2021 and I'd like for you to stop.

[Overread]

4 minutes ago, Walrustaco said:

Frig off skeletor, I want a leaked two-page spread from the mawtribes book with brand new art of ogor mating rituals.

Your calcium-coated behind can get in line. I know you've been sprouting frankly upsetting lies about how I won't get my book until 2021 and I'd like for you to stop.

Hey wait a sec that's not me! 

 

I've been the one saying its not coming until 2023! Gah darn Ogres can't even tell one crazed Skeletor fan from another!

[Eldarain]

5 hours ago, trolemon said:

Makes ethereal amulet not an ideal artifact to use against these guys aswell

I don't think this new ability affects a model with the amulet. It ignores the ability Ethereal. Which despite having the word in it's name and bestowing the same effect it does not grant the model that ability.

[The lord of murder]

49 minutes ago, Walrustaco said:

Frig off skeletor, I want a leaked two-page spread from the mawtribes book with brand new art of ogor mating rituals.

Your calcium-coated behind can get in line. I know you've been sprouting frankly upsetting lies about how I won't get my book until 2021 and I'd like for you to stop.

Bahahah!!So the big bones of the realms are boned-out because they got the short end of the bone.I find it humerus.

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

Goblins don’t know how to make glass? 🤯

I expect that from beastmen who scavenge or a troll, and seraphon who don’t have the need for things. It’s one thing to know how to but doesn’t have a mass need for it and another to just not understand it. Weird bit of lore that really cuts into the intelligence of their race and goblin society lol

—— Id like some more Bonereapers info too, but green skins and cities need some time. The road ahead is certainly looking to be paved quite nicely and I’m very excited

[Zanzou]

2 hours ago, Chikout said:

.

Regarding the lore , I'm not sure why people are so obsessed with lore and trade in AOS when it didn't seem to matter in the old world.

 

 

Probably because the familiar fantasy level of the old world allowed for innate understanding on the basics of how the world would generally operate. For many of us, that’s why it was a simple feat to get immersed. 

It’s quite analogous to the quote: “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” The more outlandish and hand-wavy the factions and worlds of AoS are, the more details are required for us to find it to be believable.

 

 

[Platypus]

15 hours ago, Charlo said:

Looks almost similar to an up-gunned (read: more spikes) Fimir mace!

Oh please, let this be real!

[Overread]

5 hours ago, Zanzou said:

 

Probably because the familiar fantasy level of the old world allowed for innate understanding on the basics of how the world would generally operate. For many of us, that’s why it was a simple feat to get immersed. 

It’s quite analogous to the quote: “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” The more outlandish and hand-wavy the factions and worlds of AoS are, the more details are required for us to find it to be believable.

Exactly. Heck the way the Mortal Realms works it actually throws up huge problems in some very simple areas. For example consider trade. In the Old World it was easy to assume that most traded with minted coins and gold, gemstones etc.... A very simple analogy to our own world and many of the items would have held relative similar values. A Diamond the size of a fist would be darn valuable. 

In the Mortal Realms there's a whole realm made of metal. Gold, iron, steel, tin, bronze - in the Realm of Metal all those things are laying around on the surface; they even have rust storms not dust storms (how on earth anything survives breathing in a rust storm is a miracle - you'd think the lung cancer rates would be through the roof). So this one realm alone already throws up huge issues with basic trade. How can gold or even minted coins have value when the metal is as common as mud to that realm, which then trades with the others. Indeed how can the other realms trade back to the metal realm? Well the realm of beasts likely trades back a lot of food supplies to a metal realm. So now we have to deal with the concept of huge value swings. Meat might be pretty cheap in the Beast Realm - but super valuable in the metal and vis versa for base metals. 

However how to you organise trade so that one market doesn't flood the other. How do you organise trade disputes. Then lets throw on top that there are only specific points (Realmgates) where this trade can be conducted; how do you then have many vast kingdoms operating. Some must be trading only locally, not through the realm gates. So now how do you avoid supertraders? Why aren't the KO, who appear to have a tight monopoly on a lot of transporting, utterly rich beyond words. 

 

The Realms are fantastical, but at the same time so far removed that even a basic concept like trade has to be worked out a bit. Even if what gets worked out isn't "perfect" it needs structuring. There's already Realmstone, which appears to be far too valuable for regular trading; there's also UR-Gold which is in the same boat. Both good for trading at the kingdom to kingdom level, but rather impractical for your larger traders and citizens. 

[zilberfrid]

It may be best to take this discussion to "your preferred level of fantasy in the AoS setting", because the realism is quite the factor here. Gimme more juicy rumours!

I must say this is quite a big week for me. Having a book describing much of the rules in one place and CoS probably means I am actually going to play the game more than a few skirmishes soon!

[Myrdin]

1 hour ago, Overread said:

Exactly. Heck the way the Mortal Realms works it actually throws up huge problems in some very simple areas. For example consider trade. In the Old World it was easy to assume that most traded with minted coins and gold, gemstones etc.... A very simple analogy to our own world and many of the items would have held relative similar values. A Diamond the size of a fist would be darn valuable. 

In the Mortal Realms there's a whole realm made of metal. Gold, iron, steel, tin, bronze - in the Realm of Metal all those things are laying around on the surface; they even have rust storms not dust storms (how on earth anything survives breathing in a rust storm is a miracle - you'd think the lung cancer rates would be through the roof). So this one realm alone already throws up huge issues with basic trade. How can gold or even minted coins have value when the metal is as common as mud to that realm, which then trades with the others. Indeed how can the other realms trade back to the metal realm? Well the realm of beasts likely trades back a lot of food supplies to a metal realm. So now we have to deal with the concept of huge value swings. Meat might be pretty cheap in the Beast Realm - but super valuable in the metal and vis versa for base metals. 

However how to you organise trade so that one market doesn't flood the other. How do you organise trade disputes. Then lets throw on top that there are only specific points (Realmgates) where this trade can be conducted; how do you then have many vast kingdoms operating. Some must be trading only locally, not through the realm gates. So now how do you avoid supertraders? Why aren't the KO, who appear to have a tight monopoly on a lot of transporting, utterly rich beyond words. 

 

The Realms are fantastical, but at the same time so far removed that even a basic concept like trade has to be worked out a bit. Even if what gets worked out isn't "perfect" it needs structuring. There's already Realmstone, which appears to be far too valuable for regular trading; there's also UR-Gold which is in the same boat. Both good for trading at the kingdom to kingdom level, but rather impractical for your larger traders and citizens. 

Exchange market was a thing through out all of human history

Good example: Lets go to Western-ish Europe, in the year of around 650, where the kingdom of Frank merchant Samo existed, who lived during the Slav - Avar period where the Slavic tribes were constantly battling the aggressive Avar invaders.

They used metal spikes called "hrivna" that represented a certain set value and were first sparsely used as a supplemental currency to the usual goods trade, later taking full fledged role of a proper currency, before the minted coins were later introduced. 

The value of something is not set, the value of goods and services is altered depending on the market. Demand and supply. Thats how the first civilization used to barter. I value this, you dont. You however value something else, which I dont. I want your stuff, you want mine. We both know the other person values that particular item to a certain degree, though we dont know to what exact degree that is. Thus the business discussion opens, and we start haggling and bartering to both find out how much the other person values that thing, how much they value their own thing, and what would the ideal exchange rate of these things for me / you be, and trying to meet somewhere along that path.

Model scenario: You are a merchant caravan owner. You make a half year long trip from the City where you have your base, to few remote villages on the outskirts. You bring stuff like cloth, salt, soap, etc, mostly daily necessities... easy to get in a big city but that much more valuable in some developing remote region. You bring them to that village and exchange them for the local products... lets say, one village has abundance of honey > precious delicious liquid gold highly sought after in the city with all the nobles and rich merchants wanting to sweeten up their lives, or shops and bakeries wanting to buy it to make pastries.

In another village that is a mining village you might get cheap coal and metals, which again can be sold for high in the city.

Now I know I know... the instant realm gate teleport mumbo jumbo does throw a wrench in the whole "its precious because its hard to get and takes long to deliver", but then again, I doubt every person can use the gates at any given time, whenever and without any fee.

Put simply > normal people most likely dont get to use them that often, plus some of the realm gates are "out there" meaning you need to get to them first, so there still is some travel period.

But I am digressing. The point I wanted to address is that Value is not constant, it is not set. One mans junk is another mans treasure, and that holds true even more so in a barter goods exchange economy. As you eluded to: People from the Realm of Metal, might not care much for iron copper and gold, but they would climb over themselves to get some good quality lean meat, and grains from Realm of the beast. Meaning they would pay in what one realm might see as premium price, to them being worth no more then some pebbles on the road they can literally pick anywhere.

We are so used to everything having fixed values these days, living in modern society, we tend to forget that people used to haggle and barter for goods on daily basis, heck not even that long ago. Plus there are also countries where open street markets and haggling is a everyday occurrence. But unlike our world, in AoS instead with money they would pay with goods, and haggle with each other about the value of those goods, each trying to strike the best deal possible.

I think depiste the human/elf/dwarf Realms (most of them) being fairly advanced, they would more likely than not resort to this style of commerce rather than trying to form some sort of universal currency.... at least as long as we are not introduced to some. Like lets say "magic crystals" which are universally coveted by all realms, thus making a great basis for a currency as an example.  Or something like that  

But I believe this is really not the thread suited for a discussion on economics, realms and such  none of these are Rumours after all, though it is fairly enjoyable having and reading spontaneous discussion like these whenever they pop up ^__^

Edited September 25, 2019 by Myrdin

[michu]

1 hour ago, Overread said:

Exactly. Heck the way the Mortal Realms works it actually throws up huge problems in some very simple areas. For example consider trade. In the Old World it was easy to assume that most traded with minted coins and gold, gemstones etc.... A very simple analogy to our own world and many of the items would have held relative similar values. A Diamond the size of a fist would be darn valuable. 

In the Mortal Realms there's a whole realm made of metal. Gold, iron, steel, tin, bronze - in the Realm of Metal all those things are laying around on the surface; they even have rust storms not dust storms (how on earth anything survives breathing in a rust storm is a miracle - you'd think the lung cancer rates would be through the roof). So this one realm alone already throws up huge issues with basic trade. How can gold or even minted coins have value when the metal is as common as mud to that realm, which then trades with the others. Indeed how can the other realms trade back to the metal realm? Well the realm of beasts likely trades back a lot of food supplies to a metal realm. So now we have to deal with the concept of huge value swings. Meat might be pretty cheap in the Beast Realm - but super valuable in the metal and vis versa for base metals. 

However how to you organise trade so that one market doesn't flood the other. How do you organise trade disputes. Then lets throw on top that there are only specific points (Realmgates) where this trade can be conducted; how do you then have many vast kingdoms operating. Some must be trading only locally, not through the realm gates. So now how do you avoid supertraders? Why aren't the KO, who appear to have a tight monopoly on a lot of transporting, utterly rich beyond words. 

 

The Realms are fantastical, but at the same time so far removed that even a basic concept like trade has to be worked out a bit. Even if what gets worked out isn't "perfect" it needs structuring. There's already Realmstone, which appears to be far too valuable for regular trading; there's also UR-Gold which is in the same boat. Both good for trading at the kingdom to kingdom level, but rather impractical for your larger traders and citizens. 

GW already answered "the gold value" question - regular gold is worthless. But rarer metals like meteoric steel (Azyrheim  mints coins out of this) and Torope gold are still valuable. KO are not "rich beyond words" because of lost ships to Harkrakens, Grotbag scuttlers etc... Flying is not anymore safer than land transport. Here https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/08/mar-8-trade-and-currency-in-the-mortal-reamsgw-homepage-post-4/

Remember that most of the Realms are still ravaged by Chaos forces so many trade expeditions end badly. That prevents the market flooding.

The answers are already here you just have to look better.

Edited September 25, 2019 by michu

[RuneBrush]

+++ MOD HAT +++

Quite a bit of background lore discussion here that would be better in another thread folks please - firstly because it's nothing to do with rumours, but secondly it'll get lost in this mega-1000+ page topic!

[pseudonyme]

50 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

What he said

This

[zilberfrid]

As for rumours, has anyone seen the Luminarch somewhere in CoS art? It has not been rebased, and is not seen in the pictures I can find so far. I have a sneaking suspicion about it.

[mikethefish]

24 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

As for rumours, has anyone seen the Luminarch somewhere in CoS art? It has not been rebased, and is not seen in the pictures I can find so far. I have a sneaking suspicion about it.

It (or possibly the Hurricanum) was shown in the original model display a few months ago

[EccentricCircle]

37 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

+++ MOD HAT +++

Quite a bit of background lore discussion here that would be better in another thread folks please - firstly because it's nothing to do with rumours, but secondly it'll get lost in this mega-1000+ page topic!

Do you, or the other mods, have the capability to split off these posts into a new thread please? I'd really like to get involved in the discussion, but am conscious that its completely the wrong thread for it!

[zilberfrid]

9 minutes ago, mikethefish said:

It (or possibly the Hurricanum) was shown in the original model display a few months ago

Ah thanks, that's not a picture from Warhammer Community where I was searching, so I could not find it.

I would otherwise just have converted it into a Steam tank with a few mortar (for the compression tank) and empire cannon bits. Now I may still want to convert something into a steam tank with those bits, but I'll have to find another donor chassis.

[Tenshi]

On 9/23/2019 at 1:59 PM, Sleboda said:

Kislev.

Dogs of War.

Fimir.

Then there are the chunks within armies.

Wood Elf chariots and bolt throwers.

Skeletons with great weapons.

Zoats.

And so on.

 

Squats are indeed the biggest example, but GW does have a history of making your purchase and hobby time spent on those purchases wasted. 

Not bitter, just pointing out that the company is not averse to taking our toys away.

 

I started with HeroQuest, I always wated some Fimir for Warhammer. As an army, or as orc bosses.
Then I got into wargaming with 40K 2.Ed and I choose to play Squats.
In Fantasy, my first army were Bretonians. I was always buying single blisters from many armies, so when they released Dogs of War it was the perfect army for my. And I went big into it.
And when I came back to Fantasy, I went with Tomb Kings. And we got the End Times in a few months...

I don't know what I did, but GW is clearly after me. 😂

[Overread]

3 minutes ago, Tenshi said:

I started with HeroQuest, I always wated some Fimir for Warhammer. As an army, or as orc bosses.
Then I got into wargaming with 40K 2.Ed and I choose to play Squats.
In Fantasy, my first army were Bretonians. I was always buying single blisters from many armies, so when they released Dogs of War it was the perfect army for my. And I went big into it.
And when I came back to Fantasy, I went with Tomb Kings. And we got the End Times in a few months...

I don't know what I did, but GW is clearly after me. 😂

Based on your track record I think it best that you tell us what army you're collecting now.

And darn that is some terribly rough luck too!