The Rumour Thread

[Clan's Cynic]

2 minutes ago, Hollow said:

Who? Who are these people you are talking for? If you didn't like it that is fine. But generating a narrative to support your own personal opinion is skewed. 

To be fair I also remember seeing this opinion A LOT as well. It definitely wasn't an uncommon sentiment even here on TGA. I say that as somebody who was fine with the narrower focus given over to a specific little chunk of the setting - something closer to AoS Necromunda than AoS Kill Team, but clearly they've moved away from that.

I also remember the reaction from influencers being very muted if not outright disliking it, mostly because of the simplicity and inherent randomness. 

[Jator]

5 minutes ago, novakai said:

People didn’t like that it was only chaos warbands being release, there are like 24 other armies in Sigmar and every warband was Slaves to darkness.

 

This is not aimed personally at you but -if you allow me some venting- I can't be on board with that attitude. Not every game in a setting should incluide every faction ever released on it. 

Neither Mordheim or Necromunda faced this back at their day. People understood that we were seeing a specific pocket within the setting with just the factions that made the most sense within it. 
 I'm sure the inclusion of the AoS armies factions helped Warcry's popularity, so maybe this is a moot point to make, but I think I'd have been more interesting to  see them expand the original bands and setting.

[Nezzhil]

3 hours ago, RyantheFett said:

The Honest Wargamer goes over the Cities article and give some interesting takes/insight/rumors. Some highlights:

• He is in the camp that Cities will end up as an all human army in a few years.
• Mentions the rumors of both dark elves and dwarfs getting their own factions at some point.
• Thinks the current dark elves and dwarf modles will be used as the starter of those new armies.
• Notes how big GW giving people the Ok to proxy is and how GW is scared this move may upset the fans.
• Thinks a lot of the mage stuff stayed since it would not go with the lore of the Old World.
• The bad spot GW is in for trying to take out all the old models from AoS despite them forming the core of several factions.

 

 

I closed the video at the moment he used the word Umbraneth. Oh please, when would that disinformation stop?

[madmac]

14 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

To be fair I also remember seeing this opinion A LOT as well. It definitely wasn't an uncommon sentiment even here on TGA. I say that as somebody who was fine with the narrower focus given over to a specific little chunk of the setting - something closer to AoS Necromunda than AoS Kill Team, but clearly they've moved away from that.

I also remember the reaction from influencers being very muted if not outright disliking it, mostly because of the simplicity and inherent randomness. 

I'd go so far as saying that it was the #1 complaint about the game, period, and to this day I feel quite confident in saying that the vast majority of Warcry Warbands played are actually the AoS factions and not the unique warbands themselves.

[Ferban]

3 minutes ago, madmac said:

I'd go so far as saying that it was the #1 complaint about the game, period, and to this day I feel quite confident in saying that the vast majority of Warcry Warbands played are actually the AoS factions and not the unique warbands themselves.

I think this was a common sentiment.  Even though the game was fairly well received and had a relatively strong player base, the fact that nearly every warband was for Chaos was generally considered a negative.  I remember when rumors first started swirling of non-chaos warbands that might be coming in the Gnarlwood season.  That was really well received.  And recently when they announced that most of the upcoming releases would be Destruction/Order/Death based, there was a lot of cheering.  

I think it's fair to say that having only chaos representation (and slaves to darkness only rather than the four chaos gods) was a frequent detraction.  To say that it was never considered a negative is, I think, a bit revisionist.  

[Dawi not Duardin]

1 hour ago, madmac said:

Yeah, I agree. Outside of one-off bits like Warcry or a random artillery dwarf I wouldn't ever expect to see mixed race units. It's more likely to me that if we ever see new "City Elf" or "City Dwarf" models they'll be their own auxillary units.  Something like a unit of aelven scouts or duardin engineers to flesh out the range someday after the human elements feel fully explored seems more reasonable to me. A little splash of multi-racial flavor like the Ogre warhulk without taking away from the overall focus on humans.

Counterpoint: the one non-human humanoid they have shown off for Cities, the ogor warhulk, is not just a multiracial unit but a multiracial model. Remember there is a human on top!

Though with that said, I honestly broadly agree. For logistical reasons it makes sense to have dwarfs, elves, etc, in separate units from humans. This is because they have different physiological properties: it makes no sense to have a unit of (say) heavy-armoured mixed infantry when the dwarfs are able to carry twice as heavy armour as the other unit members, or light skirmishers when the elves are twice as fast as the dwarf unit members. Because they have very well-defined and distinct bodies and abilities, specialization is likely to bring comparative advantages for the units. 

Granted, this doesn't rule out the odd mixed cannon crew or militia unit, but when it comes to more specialized units, it is harder to see combos. And the Steelhelms are already fully human.

EDIT: It struck me after posting that perhaps the physiological difference point also shows why the ogor/human combo might be the exception that proves the rule. It is because the ogor is so much bigger than the human that the warhulk idea works, so it is likely to be an exception to the rule.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Dawi not Duardin

[CDM]

Agree ignore he is just speculating like we all do! ( Except I saw the word  Umbraneth in an article on their site! after the hubbub it was removed swiftly, I didn't know about this for a while after the article but I definitely saw it!)

I'm disappointed the wanderes were removed they are amazing models and give a unique take on the force as well as the shadow warriors.

I feel there will be elf and dwarf release for citirs in the future and this removal frees up space for that.

[sandlemad]

45 minutes ago, Jator said:

This is not aimed personally at you but -if you allow me some venting- I can't be on board with that attitude. Not every game in a setting should incluide every faction ever released on it. 

Neither Mordheim or Necromunda faced this back at their day. People understood that we were seeing a specific pocket within the setting with just the factions that made the most sense within it. 
 I'm sure the inclusion of the AoS armies factions helped Warcry's popularity, so maybe this is a moot point to make, but I think I'd have been more interesting to  see them expand the original bands and setting.

I think this is the point. I agree with the sentiment and would have been completely cool with a Necromunda/Mordheim-style all or mostly random chaos goons approach. But a lot of people around the time of the launch disagreed strongly and wanted something more like contemporary Kill Team, where every faction was represented.

On the original point, I don’t think @novakai is ‘generating a narrative’ so much as recognising a perceived issue with early Warcry in the community. I observed folks having the same issue with the game, even if it wasn’t my feelings on the matter.

[CommissarRotke]

59 minutes ago, Hollow said:

Who? Who are these people you are talking for? If you didn't like it that is fine. But generating a narrative to support your own personal opinion is skewed. 

Even the people who loved everything about Warcry 1e said they wanted to see non-Chaos warbands; this was like a monumentally large opinion across the fanbase? Especially because the closest game analogue to Warcry is Kill Team, so yes, most people were questioning why Warcry was only Chaos and were asking when the other Alliances would get warbands.

We don't need to accuse each other of making up info. If you weren't here for Warcry's initial release that's fine; and if you were, I'm legitimately surprised if you didn't encounter this sentiment.

edit: Warcry needed to be a Kill Team analogue. I don't think AOS has the market space within GW itself to have a Chaos-version of Necromunda in it. It's fine if Necromunda is Imperium only, it is a very specialist game niche. A skirmish game like WC/KT should include as many factions as possible.

Edited July 14, 2023 by CommissarRotke

[Hollow]

I suppose my idea "Warcry was released, was well received and has had frequent updates, has followed the roadmaps they laid out and they are now getting around to the non-chaos warbands that they talked about potentially getting around to when the designer's notes were first released for the game."

Sure people would like to see other things. People even had suggestions about what they would like to see in the future. That doesn't say to me "People didn't like the game" which was the comment that was just narrative generating. Games don't get support and multiple editions if nobody likes them or they are not successful. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Hollow

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

Umbraneth may or may not be what is officially used when that faction releases, we don't know. But it is a useful shorthand for discussing "Malerion's yet-to-be-released Shadow Aelves" that is less of a mouthful and tends to be understood. So I don't hold it against anyone who uses it.

[Nezzhil]

29 minutes ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

Umbraneth may or may not be what is officially used when that faction releases, we don't know. But it is a useful shorthand for discussing "Malerion's yet-to-be-released Shadow Aelves" that is less of a mouthful and tends to be understood. So I don't hold it against anyone who uses it.

We know that Umbraneth is fake because the pic was a 4chan edit. The aura of Malerion is coming soon is based on a fake because without that name the Duardin book, the Chorfs, the darkoath book, have the same possibilities to be released instead the "Umbraneth"

[Goatforce]

38 minutes ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

Umbraneth may or may not be what is officially used when that faction releases, we don't know. But it is a useful shorthand for discussing "Malerion's yet-to-be-released Shadow Aelves" that is less of a mouthful and tends to be understood. So I don't hold it against anyone who uses it.

Yeah I think Umbraneth has just kinda become the placeholder name for them, someone calling them Umbraneth doesn't mean they believe the debunked rumour, it is just easier as a reference than constantly saying "Malarion's Elves" or something like that.

[Neverchosen]

I honestly hope they use the name Umbraneth... 😱

[CDM]

I saw Umbraneth on the Warhammer community website independently of whatever was mentioned after. I read the whole article and it was there. They then removed it, someone on 4chan then knocked one up apparently.  I only saw the claims of it being faked weeks after, I know what I saw! I went back to the article and it wasn't there.

The shadestalkers are the first Umbraneth (even their weapons have Umbra in the title!)  Just like Skaeths wild Hunt were the first Kurnothi (although these were officially named).

Whether they call them Umbraneth later is really irrelevant it works as a placeholder

[Clan's Cynic]

26 minutes ago, CDM said:

I saw Umbraneth on the Warhammer community website independently of whatever was mentioned after. I read the whole article and it was there. They then removed it, someone on 4chan then knocked one up apparently.  I only saw the claims of it being faked weeks after, I know what I saw! I went back to the article and it wasn't there.

The shadestalkers are the first Umbraneth (even their weapons have Umbra in the title!)  Just like Skaeths wild Hunt were the first Kurnothi (although these were officially named).

Whether they call them Umbraneth later is really irrelevant it works as a placeholder

I'm not crazy! I know James Workshop swapped that name. I knew it was Umbraneth. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just- I just couldn't prove it! They covered their tracks, they got an idiot on /tg/ to make a photoshop for them. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He's done worse. Those Dominion leaks! Are you telling me that some Youtuber just happens to leak the new edition like that? No! He orchestrated it! James! He told Grimdark Live we were getting Chaos Dwarfs! And I believed him! And I shouldn't have. I took them to believe we were getting Hobgrot Wolf Riders. What was I thinking? He'll never change. He'll never change! Ever since he went publicly-owned, always the same! Couldn't keep his hands off the potato-cam! But not our James! Couldn't be precious James! Leaking them blind! And HE gets to bring back Fantasy?! What a sick joke! I should've stopped him when I had the chance... And you, you have to stop him! You-

Edited July 14, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[novakai]

2 hours ago, Jator said:

This is not aimed personally at you but -if you allow me some venting- I can't be on board with that attitude. Not every game in a setting should incluide every faction ever released on it. 

Neither Mordheim or Necromunda faced this back at their day. People understood that we were seeing a specific pocket within the setting with just the factions that made the most sense within it. 
 I'm sure the inclusion of the AoS armies factions helped Warcry's popularity, so maybe this is a moot point to make, but I think I'd have been more interesting to  see them expand the original bands and setting.

It not venting really, I am just counter Chikiouts point of doing a warcry 1.0 release for CoS when GW themselves have pivot into the current Killteam style release for Warcry with different armies and not likely to return doing the same thing for clear reason. Perceiving it as negative is people opinions.

On the point of Mordheim, they did the opposite of what Warcry 1.0 did and actually varied the starters from Empire, Chaos, undead and skaven. So the complaint doesn’t work for the old game.

Necromunda is its own system with no direct tied to the 40K mainline game. They don’t advertise their models to be useable in 40K. It stands on its own. Could they have made Warcry into the AoS necromunda? yes but that was not the path they decided to take and in the end they went with the Killteam model.

[EntMan]

2 hours ago, Dawi not Duardin said:

Granted, this doesn't rule out the odd mixed cannon crew or militia unit, but when it comes to more specialized units, it is harder to see combos. And the Steelhelms are already fully human.

This is a really good point unfortunately, if there was going to be a mixed species unit of regular cities folk it'd surely have to be the basic infantry.

Still hoping for maybe a dwarf crew member for artillery. (And if GW don't comply I will add my own)

[CDM]

1 hour ago, novakai said:

It not venting really, I am just counter Chikiouts point of doing a warcry 1.0 release for CoS when GW themselves have pivot into the current Killteam style release for Warcry with different armies and not likely to return doing the same thing for clear reason. Perceiving it as negative is people opinions.

On the point of Mordheim, they did the opposite of what Warcry 1.0 did and actually varied the starters from Empire, Chaos, undead and skaven. So the complaint doesn’t work for the old game.

Necromunda is its own system with no direct tied to the 40K mainline game. They don’t advertise their models to be useable in 40K. It stands on its own. Could they have made Warcry into the AoS necromunda? yes but that was not the path they decided to take and in the end they went with the Killteam model.

When Warcry showed that it was positioned as more kill team adjacent than Necromunda it did revitalise some hope in me of a mordheim revival. 

I always thought Mordheim could work in the AoS setting being some wierd side realm.  I would of preferred Mordheim over tlTOW though to introduce the setting again ( although WHFB setting was mint!) and brought WHFB and it's rank and file battles back in an epic/warmaster size.

[LordSolarMach]

In regards to Mordheim being a more focussed game: while the half of the "rulebook" warbands were Empire (Reikland, Middenheim, and Marienburg Mercenaries, Witch Hunters, Sisters of Sigmar) they were alongside Chaos Cultists, Skaven, and Undead. A pretty good mix.

And Town Crier pretty quickly added plenty of other diverse sorts - Dwarf Treasure Hunters, Kislevites, Carnival of Chaos, Pit Fighters, etc. etc.

Edited July 14, 2023 by LordSolarMach

[Hollow]

I always have kinda seen Underworlds as AoS "Necromunda" type setting. 

[Ragest]

3 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

I honestly hope they use the name Umbraneth... 😱

Aos armies need a composed name. Umbraneth bucaneers, ulgurothi shadowkin, i'm so tired to wait for this armyneth, elves that make duardin players cry everyday…

[MitGas]

2 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I'm not crazy! I know James Workshop swapped that name. I knew it was Umbraneth. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just- I just couldn't prove it! They covered their tracks, they got an idiot on /tg/ to make a photoshop for them. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He's done worse. Those Dominion leaks! Are you telling me that some Youtuber just happens to leak the new edition like that? No! He orchestrated it! James! He told Grimdark Live we were getting Chaos Dwarfs! And I believed him! And I shouldn't have. I took them to believe we were getting Hobgrot Wolf Riders. What was I thinking? He'll never change. He'll never change! Ever since he went publicly-owned, always the same! Couldn't keep his hands off the potato-cam! But not our James! Couldn't be precious James! Leaking them blind! And HE gets to bring back Fantasy?! What a sick joke! I should've stopped him when I had the chance... And you, you have to stop him! You-

Posts like this add spice to our nerdy hobby. #chicanery4life ❤️

[Chikout]

Oops!  I was just making a poor Mordheim joke. I don't seriously expect GW to do another mono faction edition of the game.That said,  the narrow focus of warcry was an issue with some but I don't think it really became a problem until second edition also started with three chaos warbands. 

Mordheim did have 5 empire warbands so while it wasn't mono faction it was dominated by one. 

 

[Whitefang]

On 7/13/2023 at 9:19 PM, EntMan said:

Just going to go ahead and assume this is the specific bit @Whitefang is like-reacting 🤞

It's already out there