The Rumour Thread

[EonChao]

27 minutes ago, Goatforce said:

To an extent they are probably the top moneymakers because they are pushed so hard (every starter, pretty much all promo material), recieve the best support and are the easiest way to get into the hobby. But yeah on the other hand there has to be something there that appeals to people to have started that vicious cycle of: They are popular therefore they get support, because they get support they become more popular....

 

33 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

As much as it keeps me wondering why space murines are the top money makers for GW i still have to accept that it is probably the reason why they could still make the xenos races and other less popular armies.

They've been around a long time with a fairly stable design but that's reasonably unique to 40k, so they've become quite iconic even beyond Warhammer fans. Outwardly to new players they seem like a human faction that looks very cool and striking. Their models tend to have lots of flat surfaces with minimal details like their leg and shoulder armour which makes them less intimidating to paint. They are pushed in marketing and starter sets but they have a lot that helps them appeal to new players to earn that spot.

Then once people get into them they have the lion's share of the lore that helps give people something get their teeth stuck into that's a bit more concrete than how some of the other factions are.

[Clan's Cynic]

Blood Bowl Monday.

Blooday? Monbowl? Yeah I got nothing.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[Chikout]

1 hour ago, Goatforce said:

To an extent they are probably the top moneymakers because they are pushed so hard (every starter, pretty much all promo material), recieve the best support and are the easiest way to get into the hobby. But yeah on the other hand there has to be something there that appeals to people to have started that vicious cycle of: They are popular therefore they get support, because they get support they become more popular....

They wouldn't push them so hard if they didn't sell in the first place. There are plenty of examples of companies making too many of something and suffering as a result. This even happened to gw with Gorkamorka. 

While the simplicity of painting is definitely a plus it's also the fact that you can literally paint them every colour of the rainbow. I think GW made a big mistake by painting the first Stormcast gold with the second most popular chamber in silver. Most people assumed the armour was metal and painted them that way. As a relatively blank canvas for creativity marines have managed to have enduring appeal. It's why I haven't got into painting Star wars or marvel there isn't the same scope for creativity that Warhammer and especially the Space Marines provide. 

In terms of the lore they have the hero, the anti hero and the villain angles all covered. 

[Nezzhil]

On 5/12/2023 at 6:31 PM, Neverchosen said:

This is why my initial thoughts about Chaos Dwarves was to include them as a subfaction in S2D as it would give GW a chance to really see how much support they would receive and also tie into existent models and ranges that are already receiving support. But if they want to throw us a completely new Chaos army I am 100 percent game for it!

Chaotic Dwarfs were not uncommon on Fantasy Lore, the Dreadfleet game have one of them. Chaos Dwarfs don't workship Chaos Gods, they rispect that but they are workshipers of Hashut on exclusive

[Ogregut]

I say release more space marines, sell more space marines so we get things like squats returning, weird and interesting races in kill team and warcry and if people want chaos dwarves back, they will do because space marines sell so well. 

GW will be able to release an army that is very niche and will take a long while to recoup their costs. 

I can also see why marines are popular. When broken down a marine is a series of geometric shapes painted in bold colours. Very simple but effective. I find marines very satisfying to paint, very easy to do and they look good once done. 

I'm also happy for a heavy 40k release schedule at the mo as we've got some amazing AoS releases coming up, gives my poor wallet a break! 

[Neverchosen]

8 hours ago, Black_Templar_Lad said:

That's it! I'm calling the Crusade!

No only messing, I completely understand people who just don't like them. I do wish GW gave that same level of treatment for every faction. In the feedback last year I stated I wanted to see more Xenos releases because well, in the vast galaxy, most of the playable factions are Imperium sub factions. Like, I obviously love them but we need others!

My favourite release over the last year was the Kroot. I absolutely loved seeing new actual aliens and I have loved GW pushing the boat more towards the more varied inhabitants of 40k, even to different human regiments and Chaos Cultists, Beastmen, it's just refreshing to see.

If they announced there would be no further Space Marine releases for the next entire year. I'd obviously be guttered because I personally do wanna see what's in store for the Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves, but I'd have to accept that there is a plethora of models to keep me happy in the mean time. A lot of Xenos fans don't even have plastic kits of their favourite units.

And that's the thing, the lore is so in-depth that it makes each different coloured space marine interesting. I just want that same level of treatment for everyone. I really really do. And I've loved seeing more of that this past year and hope it continues further. 

My exact thoughts on Stormcast imo also. Love them, so much lore, other factions deserve the same.

I think the unfortunate thing about the reliance and over saturation of iconic poster factions is that they need something to fight and when the poster faction gets the degree of focus that Space Marines and SCE get it upsets this balance. I think that keeping them central to the narrative is a good idea, and for marketing purposes I get it entirely. But with no cool xenos or chaos for 40k it becomes a bunch of Space Marine fights and is functionally Horus Heresy. I don't think that AOS has reached that level yet but as soon as each stormhost and chamber gets their own boxset and battletome we will see a similar situation. 

I think that there is an easy solution for this, which would be to alternate between the Space Marines/Storm Cast and a different 'heroic' faction each edition. That way the poster faction still retains the most focus and also doesn't oversaturate the game to the same degree they do now. 40k makes this so much easier having evil space marines as an option to keep that brand identity and visual in the public mind during interim editions, just with some more skulls and spikes.  But I feel like Sisters of Battle also share a similar aesthetic that keeps the iconography of bolters, power armour and the Imperium front and centre. Age of Sigmar is a little more difficult with Stormcast being somewhat unique in terms of aesthetics, but Kharadron really have that nice gold look and Lumineth really capture the noble spirit as possible options.

[CommissarRotke]

1 hour ago, Neverchosen said:

I don't think that AOS has reached that level yet but as soon as each stormhost and chamber gets their own boxset and battletome we will see a similar situation. 

GW doesn't seem to be interested in this, for better or worse. Honestly not so sure we will get more than expanded lore and non-Hammers characters. AOS has too many good ideas for them to focus on Stormhosts like Space Marine chapters. Hell even Hamilcar didn't get a model. Not to say the Stormhosts couldn't be expanded into fuller ideas, but that GW maybe understands their 40k dilemma on some level?

at least, personally, I think AOS should not follow 40k's footsteps both in terms of how COS/Order operates (multiracial, cooperative) and how Stormcast are presented (non-saturated intro faction). they have a chance to fill the Mortal Realms with plenty of stories that aren't beholden to a poster faction; unlike 40k where the Heresy means your metaplot revolves around good/bad Marines and maybe some humans. It also gives AOS its own identity instead of "40k but fantasy" or "fantasy Earth."

[EntMan]

48 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

"40k but fantasy"

Oh the irony! Everything is a circle...

[Jator]

4 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Blood Bowl Monday.

Blooday? Monbowl? Yeah I got nothing.

Grashnak Blackhoof was cool, but I'm not really feeling this guy, maybe with a different paintjob...then again FW is such a hit or miss when it comes to star players. At least they have kept his original helmet, I guess that's a nice detail.

[Gitzdee]

7 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Blood Bowl Monday.

Blooday? Monbowl? Yeah I got nothing.

I guess this one could easily be added to a Rockguts unit without having to change much. Too bad there arent any troggoth heroes it could proxy.

[Vasshpit]

He's a little too comical for me. Kruleboyz have spoiled me on trogg design, heh. 

[Souleater]

Xenos didn’t even get a Christmas Battleforce last year. They made a big thing about there being more Battleforces…then only did Imperial vs Chaos. 😕

 

Stormcast already feel bloated compared to my other armies. They are a great starting army for many of the same reasons as Marines, but I really hope GW put more resources into stuff like Destruction and revamping old armies (Skaven, Ogors, Chorfs) before adding to SCE.

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

35 minutes ago, Souleater said:

Xenos didn’t even get a Christmas Battleforce last year. They made a big thing about there being more Battleforces…then only did Imperial vs Chaos. 😕

 

Stormcast already feel bloated compared to my other armies. They are a great starting army for many of the same reasons as Marines, but I really hope GW put more resources into stuff like Destruction and revamping old armies (Skaven, Ogors, Chorfs) before adding to SCE.

Yeah, Stormcast definitely feel like they could do with a slowdown of the number of new units they get. There's still space to expand them, of course - I'm waiting on a 5-model squad of pegasi cavalry, myself - but warscroll bloat is a real thing and it can be a big obstacle for new players trying to wrap their head around the Battletome.

[Souleater]

See, you’re thinking in Space Marine terms. Cool idea for a model…shall we do FEC Pegasus Knights…nah…let’s make Stormcast bigger! 😜

Edited May 15, 2023 by Souleater
Bad spell!

[KingBrodd]

10 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Blood Bowl Monday.

Blooday? Monbowl? Yeah I got nothing.

I hope this wasnt the Troll/Troggoth @Whitefang was hinting at because unfortunately its doing nothing for me!!

[KriticalKhan]

I could understand new Stormcast stuff if GW was planning on phasing out the older models with Thunderstrike replacements, but the new battletome went out of its way in the fluff to say that the old armor style would be sticking around and they've established Thunderstrike stuff as separate units so you can't proxy old stuff in the same way an StD player can still use their old Chaos Warriors. So now GW is in a bind where they've essentially admitted that the old Stormcast designs aren't what people wanted, but they can't get rid of them, and they're still making Thunderstrike equivalents, and they have two other Chambers with units types that cover the same niches. Now, not only have they covered just about every conceivable unit type, they have two to three variants for all of them! The only way to add more is to remove what's left of their faction identity (remember when Stormcast didn't have wizards and were a "slow" army?).

If they end up in the 4e starter with more units, I'm expecting to see some kind of chaff unit (more of a horde than gryph hounds); a tanky, medium-sized monster (bound-spirit Storm Golems?); and maybe some more artillery---perhaps as part of the long-awaited Ruination Chamber.

Even if Stormcast aren't the Space Marines GW wanted, I don't think they can admit that. Stormcast, from day one, have been billed as the poster-boys of AoS, and in the eyes of the public (both players and people who only know about it) they are inextricably linked---they replaced their Space Marine statue at the front of their business with a 1e Stormcast. Backing down from including them in a starter or retiring plastic kits with complete redesigns at an unprecedented speed would be an admission of failure. It wouldn't tank the game, but in some combination of sunk-cost fallacy* and maybe a bit of corporate pride, GW is obligated to continue supporting them and keep them in the limelight. I think the only mystery for the next starter is whether or not it will have them facing off against Chaos again, or an Order faction for a complete circle.

And for the record, I'm saying this as someone with a Stormcast army. Gw. Please. We really don't need any more.

*I'm not calling them unsuccessful---just not as successful as GW obviously wanted. There are designer videos where they talked about how AoS is, at its core, the "story of the Stormcast Eternals" and that there were, at the time, plans for each Stormhost to get its own supplement in the style of Space Marine chapters.

 

[RyantheFett]

46 minutes ago, KriticalKhan said:

And for the record, I'm saying this as someone with a Stormcast army. Gw. Please. We really don't need any more.

*I'm not calling them unsuccessful---just not as successful as GW obviously wanted. There are designer videos where they talked about how AoS is, at its core, the "story of the Stormcast Eternals" and that there were, at the time, plans for each Stormhost to get its own supplement in the style of Space Marine chapters.

Same here. I like the fact that Stormcast did not dominate AoS as Space Marines have done with 40k. Feels like the other factions get a lot more love and the game feels a lot more diverse.

I jumped from Sigmar into a Xeno army for 40k and the difference is crazy. I really thought and the jokes, memes, and complaints were overblown, but nope its pretty bad lol.

[Ogregut]

1 hour ago, RyantheFett said:

Same here. I like the fact that Stormcast did not dominate AoS as Space Marines have done with 40k. Feels like the other factions get a lot more love and the game feels a lot more diverse.

I jumped from Sigmar into a Xeno army for 40k and the difference is crazy. I really thought and the jokes, memes, and complaints were overblown, but nope its pretty bad lol.

Is it that bad tho? 

In 9th edition 40k there has been large model updates for eldar, orks, necrons, genestealer cults (may have been before, can't quite remember), the return of thd squats plus a small update for tau with farsight and kill team. 

Tyranids are getting the necron treatment and having a whole line refresh. 

That leaves dark eldar and tau to have a major update. 

That's not to mention chaos has had a lot of love with World eaters and chaos marines plus non marine imperial armies have had major love given to  guard and sisters.

Orher than dark eldar who are most in need of a major release wave, as there are now gaps in the range due to finecast, it's the marine armies of blood angels, wolves, deathwatch and grey knights which need updating. 

 

[KingBrodd]

1 hour ago, Ogregut said:

Is it that bad tho? 

In 9th edition 40k there has been large model updates for eldar, orks, necrons, genestealer cults (may have been before, can't quite remember), the return of thd squats plus a small update for tau with farsight and kill team. 

Tyranids are getting the necron treatment and having a whole line refresh. 

That leaves dark eldar and tau to have a major update. 

That's not to mention chaos has had a lot of love with World eaters and chaos marines plus non marine imperial armies have had major love given to  guard and sisters.

Orher than dark eldar who are most in need of a major release wave, as there are now gaps in the range due to finecast, it's the marine armies of blood angels, wolves, deathwatch and grey knights which need updating. 

 

Its only since last Edition that those Armies did start getting updated though.

I love to see it and hope GW continues updating the Xeno Factions and in fact adding more of them, its always been bizzare to me to have an entire galaxy but very few Alien races.

[Beliman]

54 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

Its only since last Edition that those Armies did start getting updated though.

Take in mind that the Space Marines range refresh started in 2017. Every 3 years, there is a new wave in each starting edition set.

Appart from that, most 40k armies feel like full armies. Some of them are not that big, like Genestealers and Mechanicus. Only Harlequins and Votann feel "small", but in that department, AoS feels a lot worst. We have so many micro-armies: Kharadrons, Fyreslayers, Ironjawz, OBR, Idoneth, Kruleboyz,... and all of them in need of more miniatures. And other armies like Ogors, Skavens, Beastmen, etc... are in need of a range refresh too.

Maybe SCE are not Space Marines, but looking at the whole picture, we fall behind range refresh and second waves compared to 40k.

[EntMan]

1 hour ago, KingBrodd said:

its always been bizzare to me to have an entire galaxy but very few Alien races.

I absolutely agree that more aliens would be brilliant, and to me would make the setting more interesting.

However the lack is unfortunately lore consistent, didn't the Imps wipe out a whole load of aliens during the great crusade etc?

[KingBrodd]

1 hour ago, EntMan said:

I absolutely agree that more aliens would be brilliant, and to me would make the setting more interesting.

However the lack is unfortunately lore consistent, didn't the Imps wipe out a whole load of aliens during the great crusade etc?

I did not know this!! That makes much more sense and makes me...happier with the setting?*

*Note I am not condoning Alien Genocide.

[Gitzdee]

4 hours ago, Ogregut said:

it's the marine armies of blood angels, wolves, deathwatch and grey knights which need updating. 

 

This. I used to like marines a whole lot more before the whole primaris thing. Each chapter felt a whole lot more like their own thing. Each had their unique units and heroes. Now those unique units are still around but arent primaris, this results in me not wanting to buy into those anymore because eventually it will be replaced by primaris and to be fair it shocked me that GW didnt get rid of astartes marines last edition. 

So now we have old unique units that look horrible next to primaris and almost no chapter specific models. To me every primaris army looks like a reskin with a different primaris hero slapped on. Long story short i like the old formula a whole lot more.

I hope this was a result from wanting to update the Xenos races but imho they didnt do a great job at that. They gave Orks a Warclans style subfaction with no synergy with all the old units. They updated only half of what Eldar needed updating. I do think Necrons looked great though.

To me it just feels like they are just not giving us finished armies anymore. I like the whole army refreshes a whole lot more. To me AoS armies feel a lot more complete.

Sorry for these random thoughts.

 

[JerekKruger]

2 hours ago, EntMan said:

However the lack is unfortunately lore consistent, didn't the Imps wipe out a whole load of aliens during the great crusade etc?

Although the Galaxy is generally described as being large enough that there should be room for Tau sized alien races I'd say. Yes, the Imperium is located in basically all of the Galaxy, but it's not occupying it all and the idea of a cluster of stars that weren't ever colonised fits fine*.

*Or perhaps they were colonised, but the locals objected, and the Imperium being rather busy and bureaucratic just has a running counter on how much tithe the planets are overdue by. Eventually the number goes high enough that some no name Space Marine chapter is sent to collect, and they disappear too, but send a signal informing the Imperium of a previously unknown Xenos race with very high tech levels. Cue new faction introduction.

[Beliman]

48 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

Sorry for these random thoughts.

I'm exactly with you, but I understand why they are doing that.

There are a lot of holes in the basic Primaris line, like scouts, jump packs, a lot of weapons, etc... GW need to fix this ASAP.

I can understand some updates for the some Marine-like armies, like Deathwatch (done), Black templars (done) and I woudn't mind to see a new update for Grey Knights before basic Primaris or more Chapter-specific units.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Beliman