The Rumour Thread

[JackStreicher]

3 hours ago, Overread said:

True but my overall impression is that in most areas AoS is doing better since 2.0 by a large margin. 

That was the case in southern Germany. Though most people fled to non-GW systems and they still avoid GW Priducts (our entire whf Club of 30 people broke apart and is now scattered across 6 TTs).

I went to ninth age for example until I gave AoS (after utter hatred for the system) a shot when they announced the DoK. (Miniwargaming got me interested enough to start the game)

[michu]

I think that some people don't realise that with AoS 2.0 you can still play AoS 1.0-ish game. You don't have to use every single rule, you can choose to use only GA abilities or GA + some realm rules or every single rule (Allegiances, Realms, Endless Spells...). You decide what you want to experience (and yes, I'm aware that this advice applies only to friendly games, because rule packs for tournaments are decided by TOs).

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by michu

[Malin]

I am totally surprised no-one discuss changed warscrolls for daemons of Khorne and Slaanesh shown on twitch today.

Letters got nerfed, fiends got boosted, flesh hounds got leader, there are rules for new herald floating around. Battalions from the box will get matched play points.

[RexHavoc]

3 hours ago, Kramer said:

@Skreech Verminking & @Overread, I'm with @chord on this one. It's too easy to say it went well or not. Of course it lost a lot of the WHFB fanbase. But it was a new concept. No points, etc. 

In my neck of the wood it was picked up small but great. The games were fun, the enthousiasme was bigger, less 'bad apples' in the crowd. The only thing it lacked was an tournament option. From that point on it went downhill here. A small peak, people realised AoS wasn't/isn't balanced enough, frustrations arose, chasing the meta and tournament practice became a thing. two years later. No more games in the shop. It tried to be something that it wasn't in my opinion & for a fact it didn't pick up in my area because of points. It might well have happened in your area. 

But to my mind, it's only because it tried to be the old game again that it lost it's uniquness. Still love it. But I would have loved it more if they tried the original direction for a bit longer. And judging numbers between the old WFHB and AoS is an invalid comparison in my mind. It's a game with 20 years of building time and a new system that followed up on the lore of the former. 

TLDR, You can't judge it as a continuation of the old system. They gave up on the no points thing too soon in my opinion. I truly believed it would have thrived it just needed to grow it's audience like WHFB originally did. 

 

@Baron Klatz Yes thank you! you are right! In my memory it wasn't tied to Melerion but it clearly is. 

Exactly this. A lot of people are still convinced that it was a total disaster when it launched, when it really wasn't. It brought a lot of people back into fantasy gaming, there was a very solid and friendly community that were really enjoying that the tournament/points side of the game was now gone and people were experimenting with all sorts of new things. Things like skirmish were born from those early months. It was a great time to be part of the game, and though it made good financial reasoning that GW reintroduced points, some of us would have been happier if they had left it.

I'd still be on AoSV1 right now, the only reason I brought into AoS2 is because of the fantastic hardback rulebook, extended fluff and things like Aerial battles in the new GHB. I had already skipped over buying the 2017 GHB, the original 4 page rule set and original GHB would still be in use now otherwise. I have no reasons to replace what I have now, this will probably be the very last version of any warhammer game I do actually buy (for more reasons than just what I've mentioned here)

I totally agree they could have continued growing AoS as it's own thing for a lot longer before reintroducing points. I dont begrudge anyone their hobby, but it was hellish when all those WFB 'fans' returned with their 'we beat GW and forced them to do what we want' attitudes. There were quite a number of us that were put out with that sort of attitude, as if it was wrong to enjoy narrative AoS and I think many people decided to return to keeping their hobby private. I certainly didn't post as much as I had been and there are a number of the community that stopped posting narrative AoS once the points crowd returned.

The hobby is big enough for every to have their own style, but narrative players have been forced out due to lack of numbers. Look at the complaints that the Soul wars starter box didn't have a tournament ready model selection. Even GW said that it was crammed full and based around having a narrative based starter set. Their was outrage and I saw people demand that it needs to be tournament ready as 'narrative players can make do with what ever is in the box'.

GW haven't helped with the current phase of retconning AoS lore and bringing back WFB characters. Very soon AoS will just be WFB again and will have lost all uniqueness.

I'm actually tempted to return to playing/setting my games in the old world, just so I can continue to do what I love with out internet complaints that I'm going against the 'official' rulings. GW no longer really have control of the old world now they are finished with it and now AoS is now the #1 hype, meaning I can post to my hearts content and the people in the mindset of needing to be spoonfed everything by GW will ignore my stuff as its old world/old news.

[PJetski]

Fiends seem pretty good. I'm guessing 240 for 4, their potential damage is nuts.

Edited December 12, 2018 by PJetski

[stato]

16 minutes ago, Malin said:

I am totally surprised no-one discuss changed warscrolls for daemons of Khorne and Slaanesh shown on twitch today.

Letters got nerfed, fiends got boosted, flesh hounds got leader, there are rules for new herald floating around. Battalions from the box will get matched play points.

What happened to the Bloodletters, they only seemed good when maxed out and with multiple buffs stacked on them.  Potentially tough but beatable with some tactics and good army composition.  As someone new to the game a few years back that approach was the template for almost everything else, until they went the way of crazy strong allegiance abilities instead.... wonder if a new Khorne tome is coming sooner rather than later, since the general discussion about Slannesh suggest it might not be coming quite so soon (based on how little its been hyped, compared to the other Great Powers in previous years).  hmmm.

[Sigmarusvult]

31 minutes ago, Malin said:

I am totally surprised no-one discuss changed warscrolls for daemons of Khorne and Slaanesh shown on twitch today.

Letters got nerfed, fiends got boosted, flesh hounds got leader, there are rules for new herald floating around. Battalions from the box will get matched play points.

Yep it's kind of depressing for khorne, especially because I have just finished  painting 30 bloodletters 😂. An unmodified hit roll of 6 was expected but we could have imagined they would have something new on their warscroll to compensate ... Skullreapers may be the way to  go now. Flesh Hounds are okey/meh-they still don't have rend- while the missile weapon from their leader make me wonder why  gw did bother giving them a leader. Slaanesh got some love which is really good news (the fiends are amazing.). 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Sigmarusvult

[VBS]

1 hour ago, michu said:

I think that some people don't realise that with AoS 2.0 you can still play AoS 1.0-ish game. You don't have to use every single rule, you can choose to use only GA abilities or GA + some realm rules or every single rule (Allegiances, Realms, Endless Spells...). You decide what you want to experience (and yes, I'm aware that this advice applies only to friendly games, because rule packs for tournaments are decided by TOs).

 

This is a very valid argument but it does miss a crucial point: the whole wargaming experience involves usually more than one person. It's great I can play older editions as my minis and books allow me to do so, but I need someone else who shares a similar gaming view to keep up with the old gaming traditions.

For AoS, the increasing snowball effect that started with GHB and exponentially grew with v2.0 means it's just not possible to stick to the "old" for many of us. Gotta throw in my own tale of woe, but around here, it's all about 2k games following "what the official books tell us to do". The creativity, not-so-serious attitude, smaller games that made AoS attractive to me evapored, and probably won't come back, which makes me a sad panda. I don't need AoS to become a new-age WFB as it already exists (and gotta admit, the thought is extremely ironic considering the brief history of AoS ).

On the contrary other dead/not-supported games are still going strong (like wfb 6th) which allows me to continue enjoying the game the way I like it, but only because there are quite a few like-minded people around. For AoS, unfortunately not the case.

Edited December 12, 2018 by VBS
I have no "rumours". Sorry ;)

[The_Yellow_Sign]

1 hour ago, Sigmarusvult said:

Yep it's kind of depressing for khorne, especially because I have just finished  painting 30 bloodletters 😂. An unmodified hit roll of 6 was expected but we could have imagined they would have something new on their warscroll to compensate ... Skullreapers may be the way to  go now. Flesh Hounds are okey/meh-they still don't have rend- while the missile weapon from their leader make me wonder why  gw did bother giving them a leader. Slaanesh got some love which is really good news (the fiends are amazing.). 

Bloodletters are also screwed against Daemonettes, who forces rerolls of 6 to hit. So you will only have a 1/36 chance of triggering the ability per attack. Looks like Slaanesh definitely got the better deal in this box set...

[Sigmarusvult]

12 minutes ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

 

And Daemonettes still have their smaller base meaning they will have a lot more models in combat. Considering their warscroll plus the new fiends warscroll I have difficulty seeing how this box will be balanced for khorne. 

[Enoby]

4 minutes ago, Sigmarusvult said:

And Daemonettes still have their smaller base meaning they will have a lot more models in combat. Considering their warscroll plus the new fiends warscroll I have difficulty seeing how this box will be balanced for khorne. 

I think most combats will be decided by 'who charged first?' as you need to choose priorities. Unfortunately, I feel that may be decided by the player with the incredibly fast army. It seems GW likes putting Khorne in boxsets they have difficulty winning

[Chikout]

Bloodletters get the mortal wound on six in addition to regular damage so that is a slight compensation.

Bloodcrushers trigger the murderous charge on a 2+ instead of a 4+ and their points will go down ten to 150.

Ben said on the livestream that the khorne side costs 500 points and the Slaanesh side costs 520. I guess that doesn't include battalion points. 

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, Chikout said:

Bloodletters get the mortal wound on six in addition to regular damage so that is a slight compensation.

Bloodcrushers trigger the murderous charge on a 2+ instead of a 4+ and their points will go down ten to 150.

Ben said on the livestream that the khorne side costs 500 points and the Slaanesh side costs 520. I guess that doesn't include battalion points. 

Oh god I think I’m starting to fall back in love with my bloodcrushers (only after skaven of course)

[Baron Klatz]

9 hours ago, RexHavoc said:

GW haven't helped with the current phase of retconning AoS lore and bringing back WFB characters. Very soon AoS will just be WFB again and will have lost all uniqueness.

Now that seems an overreaction.

Only fellows they brought back so far were Gotrek, Gelt and Gotrek's aelf friend and none remained the same but were altered to become apart of the new setting just as all the older races were. (Or did firebelly Ogors seek to devour the miniature suns in Aqshy as back in the Old World? 😛 )

This is the case with the Beasts of Chaos tome too. A certain undying fiend does return but has been upgraded from a mere fiend looking to corrupt a world to a lovecraftian nightmare seeking his own twisted Godhood and to bring about a rule of pure chaos beyond even the dark gods.

No, i've seen no retcons but GW continuing building the lore up more and more and expanding the unique setting with it's fantastical realms. I even noticed subtle callbacks to the beginning like how the first starter book said the chaos hordes initial invasion were stalled by the duardin Korsh's famous cannonade and where does the Corebook show Khul's invasion of Aqshy started? The Duardinia mountains.

They're doing an excellent job with making the setting unique while balancing the requests of getting a grounded feel of the setting.

We're getting more human views of the realms but they're still the wild magic realms we started with where we see floating continents with cities built upon them and God-beasts wrapped around it or entire fields of flesh that seek to devour the tiny creatures upon them in Ghur.

Anyway, on a somewhat separate note, my Christmas Order came today and with it the Deepkin battleforce and several of the new books!

(love the little Christmas cards they sent with it, merry Christmas to you too, GW!)

The Red Hours is such a good read.

As per AoS' racial diversity it's only 20 pages in that we see a party of a disgraced Freeguild commander (who notably had pistols made by the female duardin Thora Steelsong), a female Lion Ranger, a Dispossessed master smith, a Chamonian native with notable golden tattoos on his face, a female warrior priest of high birth from Azyr and a castellant who's actually an esteemed artist from a rich family but was exiled because the Order Azyr saw her latest work of a painting with Sigmar upon a mountain of skulls while his blindfolded followers marched beneath him.

We see new Chamon beasts of burden called Ibuqs(that'as  Q at the end) which are oxen sized lizards that use steel jaws to eat gravel.

Azyr artists like to use less-stylized features in their art.

Chamon natives use metal shavings from the ground and a alchemical brew to create campfires of green flame.

They have a special handsign for a old god in the belief of the Gilded-Web  that traps misfortune.

The Azyrites continue to look down on the natives as Reclaimed  and chaos tainted so quick them as auxiliaries instead of proper Freeguild where the witch hunters and Devoted of Sigmar can watch them for heresy.

The Lantic Empire created roadways from actual paved gold to their cities and forts in Chamon.

There's mountains of iron called glitterpeaks due to the rusted shards breaking from the top from stormy weather causing lightning and sparks but are highly dangerous because strong winds created shardstorms where the iron shavings fly off and can flay people in a few seconds.

The Freeguild front in Chamon is making big advances on the frontlines against Tzeentch.

Lionrangers from their dangerous work far behind enemy lines are both experienced in basic medicine and use a stimulant called Saavalas to keep the wounded moving.

The Freeguilds first forays against daemons when the Azyr gates opened and they retook provinces was met with both terrible loses and evil curses that had seemingly normal regiments return home only to murder their families.

And there's a really nice surprise from the Age of Myth but that's spoilers. 😛

And that's just from 3/4 of the book of which I left other stuff out.

Really loving the lore in these books, really balances out the lore on both the major magical stuff in the eldritch realms to the little nuances of how the people live and their cultures.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Baron Klatz

[calcysimon]

I am 100% sure we will see something of the keeper of secret on the last preview of wrath & repture on friday

 

We are on the 20 next week

[Barkanaut]

13 hours ago, RexHavoc said:

Exactly this. A lot of people are still convinced that it was a total disaster when it launched, when it really wasn't. It brought a lot of people back into fantasy gaming, there was a very solid and friendly community that were really enjoying that the tournament/points side of the game was now gone and people were experimenting with all sorts of new things. Things like skirmish were born from those early months. It was a great time to be part of the game, and though it made good financial reasoning that GW reintroduced points, some of us would have been happier if they had left it.

I'd still be on AoSV1 right now, the only reason I brought into AoS2 is because of the fantastic hardback rulebook, extended fluff and things like Aerial battles in the new GHB. I had already skipped over buying the 2017 GHB, the original 4 page rule set and original GHB would still be in use now otherwise. I have no reasons to replace what I have now, this will probably be the very last version of any warhammer game I do actually buy (for more reasons than just what I've mentioned here)

I totally agree they could have continued growing AoS as it's own thing for a lot longer before reintroducing points. I dont begrudge anyone their hobby, but it was hellish when all those WFB 'fans' returned with their 'we beat GW and forced them to do what we want' attitudes. There were quite a number of us that were put out with that sort of attitude, as if it was wrong to enjoy narrative AoS and I think many people decided to return to keeping their hobby private. I certainly didn't post as much as I had been and there are a number of the community that stopped posting narrative AoS once the points crowd returned.

The hobby is big enough for every to have their own style, but narrative players have been forced out due to lack of numbers. Look at the complaints that the Soul wars starter box didn't have a tournament ready model selection. Even GW said that it was crammed full and based around having a narrative based starter set. Their was outrage and I saw people demand that it needs to be tournament ready as 'narrative players can make do with what ever is in the box'.

GW haven't helped with the current phase of retconning AoS lore and bringing back WFB characters. Very soon AoS will just be WFB again and will have lost all uniqueness.

I'm actually tempted to return to playing/setting my games in the old world, just so I can continue to do what I love with out internet complaints that I'm going against the 'official' rulings. GW no longer really have control of the old world now they are finished with it and now AoS is now the #1 hype, meaning I can post to my hearts content and the people in the mindset of needing to be spoonfed everything by GW will ignore my stuff as its old world/old news.

I do like the addition of points but other than tt I agree with everything you said. It’s like surprise winky face another old character comes back. It’s so overdone I’m surprised they haven’t all come back. Meanwhile new and important characters for factions like Brok Grungson or Volturnos have no books on them yet so no important lore. 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Barkanaut

[JackStreicher]

I really don‘t get why people are upset about returning Characters.

it‘s nostalgia and they bring in quite some dynamic since they have to deal with realms instead of one world. I love it especially when these characters explain the old world to the citizens of the mortal realms.

they make AoS even more interesting. (I also loooved the Realmslayer Audio Drama)

I‘d love to see a Dialogue among Gotrek and Sigmar...

Edited December 13, 2018 by JackStreicher

[Overread]

I think the main issue with returning characters is that the AoS realms are supposed to be several thousand years old already. One issue with it finding its own identity is that GW did its discovery, age of grand building and then fall into Chaos and the Chaos age all in a handful of lore pages. For characters who once were living within quite a short timer period in the Old World they now have to have reasons to have survived and hidden for several thousand years - that's a huge span of time. A few have managed by becoming godlike or gods. Others might appear from trapped souls within Slaanesh. But the Gotrik trick can only be done a few times before it feel weak. 

That and I think that the new age hasn't got as many estabilshed heroes of its own yet. That should come with time though and I'd wager many of the old heroes might appear now then fall into the backgorund once more. 

[Baron Klatz]

Why are we acting like there's some huge flood of them? It's only been a handful with Gotrek and Drycha the only "I'm back!" ones. The others are all hidden and take someone pointing them out before it becomes common knowledge they've returned in a new form.

If it wasn't for their nostalgia value they'd be raindrops in a pond rather than the ripple causing pebbles with weight behind them.

Meanwhile the AoS novels have given us dozens of new heroes since the get-go, quite a few showing up numerous times if not getting spin-off stories, and continue to pump in new faces all the time with new outlooks on the realms.

 

[eciu]

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

t‘s nostalgia and they bring in quite some dynamic since they have to deal with realms instead of one world. I love it especially when these characters explain the old world to the citizens of the mortal realms.

It's actually oposite. Realms are so vast and "empty" that it really doesn't matter what happens and where because in "grand scheme of things" it has no impact on anything great.

On the other hand if someone said that Vladdy is in Altdorf or Belegar finally got Karak 8 Peaks clean it would had tremendues implications. 

[RexHavoc]

6 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

Now that seems an overreaction.

Only fellows they brought back so far were Gotrek, Gelt and Gotrek's aelf friend and none remained the same but were altered to become apart of the new setting just as all the older races were. (Or did firebelly Ogors seek to devour the miniature suns in Aqshy as back in the Old World? 😛 )

This is the case with the Beasts of Chaos tome too. A certain undying fiend does return but has been upgraded from a mere fiend looking to corrupt a world to a lovecraftian nightmare seeking his own twisted Godhood and to bring about a rule of pure chaos beyond even the dark gods.

No, i've seen no retcons but GW continuing building the lore up more and more and expanding the unique setting with it's fantastical realms. I even noticed subtle callbacks to the beginning like how the first starter book said the chaos hordes initial invasion were stalled by the duardin Korsh's famous cannonade and where does the Corebook show Khul's invasion of Aqshy started? The Duardinia mountains.

They're doing an excellent job with making the setting unique while balancing the requests of getting a grounded feel of the setting.

We're getting more human views of the realms but they're still the wild magic realms we started with where we see floating continents with cities built upon them and God-beasts wrapped around it or entire fields of flesh that seek to devour the tiny creatures upon them in Ghur.

Anyway, on a somewhat separate note, my Christmas Order came today and with it the Deepkin battleforce and several of the new books!

(love the little Christmas cards they sent with it, merry Christmas to you too, GW!)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The Red Hours is such a good read.

As per AoS' racial diversity it's only 20 pages in that we see a party of a disgraced Freeguild commander (who notably had pistols made by the female duardin Thora Steelsong), a female Lion Ranger, a Dispossessed master smith, a Chamonian native with notable golden tattoos on his face, a female warrior priest of high birth from Azyr and a castellant who's actually an esteemed artist from a rich family but was exiled because the Order Azyr saw her latest work of a painting with Sigmar upon a mountain of skulls while his blindfolded followers marched beneath him.

We see new Chamon beasts of burden called Ibuqs(that'as  Q at the end) which are oxen sized lizards that use steel jaws to eat gravel.

Azyr artists like to use less-stylized features in their art.

Chamon natives use metal shavings from the ground and a alchemical brew to create campfires of green flame.

They have a special handsign for a old god in the belief of the Gilded-Web  that traps misfortune.

The Azyrites continue to look down on the natives as Reclaimed  and chaos tainted so quick them as auxiliaries instead of proper Freeguild where the witch hunters and Devoted of Sigmar can watch them for heresy.

The Lantic Empire created roadways from actual paved gold to their cities and forts in Chamon.

There's mountains of iron called glitterpeaks due to the rusted shards breaking from the top from stormy weather causing lightning and sparks but are highly dangerous because strong winds created shardstorms where the iron shavings fly off and can flay people in a few seconds.

The Freeguild front in Chamon is making big advances on the frontlines against Tzeentch.

Lionrangers from their dangerous work far behind enemy lines are both experienced in basic medicine and use a stimulant called Saavalas to keep the wounded moving.

The Freeguilds first forays against daemons when the Azyr gates opened and they retook provinces was met with both terrible loses and evil curses that had seemingly normal regiments return home only to murder their families.

And there's a really nice surprise from the Age of Myth but that's spoilers. 😛

And that's just from 3/4 of the book of which I left other stuff out.

Really loving the lore in these books, really balances out the lore on both the major magical stuff in the eldritch realms to the little nuances of how the people live and their cultures.

 

 

Not really an overreaction. I'm not ditching AoS products, I just don't agree with the path they are taking and it might put me off buying future products. I know I'm not alone in this, as others have mentioned the same issues with AoS. A lot of people got into AoS, or made the move from WFB, as it was a fresh take on the fantasy genre and it's very quickly becoming as close to a clone of WFB as they can without just outright swapping back out for the old game. 

They have brought back more than the couple of characters you have mentioned. I won't list them all here, as at least one is a massive spoiler for a new book (though sadly GW spoiled this return for themselves when they put out on of their promo videos and announced it which took away the surprise) Yes, many of these characters are changed in ways to suit the realms, but many of these changes simply need to be to explain away the time difference between the old world and the realms.
Some of these returns have not had full books or are just from tid bits from rulebook fluff, but one of the largest returns is simply a couple of lines in a rulebook but could dramatically change the realms, if they so choose to follow this path. The return of the Von carsteins with Mannfred recreating a whole area of the world that was (though I kind of like the idea in theory, it could be used to interesting affect) but leaves it open for abuse as soon as the community start making demands again. There is already an obnoxious amount on comments on anything that GW post about getting them to place mordheim in the realms. Why I have no problem with things returning in principle, but AoS was meant to be a clean slate from the Euro-fantasy world that the old world was, both systems can and do already exist, why make one a carbon copy of the other (other than to make fat stacks of cash of people don't seem to realise that they could still play in the old world if they so choose)
If AoS was doing so badly to the point they need to bring back most of WFB, why not just can it and bring back WFB.

There is retconning from the original AoS fluff.  The biggest change was originally the realms were infinite in size. Huge amounts to people were complaining that it was one of the main reasons that they couldn't buy into AoS as it was too big. AoS2 remade the realms from infinite to just 'pretty big'. The original AoS community were, from at least the people I spoke to regularly, annoyed at this change as we all loved the insane size of the realms. It was a huge sandbox to play in. There was no way to step on the toes any of the official fluff (A problem I have encountered in the 40k community) and there was room for all sorts of weirdness. The change was nothing more than another decision 100% based on making money- mostly from people who were still busy burning their armies and complaining that the old world was destroyed by GW (as If the warhammer police were going to make the rounds and take away anyone still using their old rulebooks, v for vendetta style) Again, most of the decisions I completely understand, they are a company driven by greed like any other big company. But a fantasy world built around making money rather than creative decisions is always going to suffer, taking the money option over the narrative is going to leave it stale in a very short time. Which will bring us back the problems WFB had at the end of its life.

Not to mention GW hinting at the realms gates being designed to pull the realms together and returning it to be one world (which, yes, may or may not be true by their own admission, but it was an odd thing to make up if it's not been passed around the design studio)
 

1 hour ago, Barkanaut said:

I do like the addition of points but other than tt I agree with everything you said. It’s like surprise winky face another old character comes back. It’s so overdone I’m surprised they haven’t all come back. Meanwhile new and important characters for factions like Brok Grungson or Volturnos have no books on them yet so no important lore.  

Exactly! Where are the adventures of Brokk Grungsson! Seraphon were given a whole new lease of life with AoS and even the soft reboot that they got during Malign Portents was amazing, where is a series of novels about some new seraphon heroes!

 

 

38 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

I really don‘t get why people are upset about returning Characters.

it‘s nostalgia

Take Gotrek for example. He was an amazing character in the old world and had a complete run of books. They ended his story and he had a decent ending. Now bringing him back has the issue marvel and comic books have. His original stories and background mean nothing. You can't have a heroic death with emotion or a final ending have that emotional gut punch because, oh look, they came back again. The production values of realmslayer were amazing but I can't connect to story that I know has no meaning. There is no tension. Because no one is in danger any more. Anyone dead can now be brought back as if nothing happened. Who cares if Gotrek is about to face down the biggest enemy in the realms. He'll just be back next week to do the same thing over and over again.

Nostalgia is not a good thing for creativity. Rehashing old ideas all the time leads to it becoming stale. There is nothing wrong with nods to what has come before. But creating things based off nostalgia leads to poor tier products.

 

16 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

Why are we acting like there's some huge flood of them? It's only been a handful with Gotrek and Drycha the only "I'm back!" ones.

 

Except there is almost as many as new characters now. But each one that does return is one more noticeable than a dozen new characters. They stand out a lot more, often like a sore thumb due to the time differences between the old world and realms (again, ret-conned. From 'a huge amount of time' to only about a1000 years, a more believable amount of time for fantasy heroes to be missing and return). And for each one that does return leads to people demanding the next most popular one to be returned. Which means we will see more and more returned with new characters being sidelined or dropped completely.
Some make sense- Sigmar and Nagash are obvious ones that made the jump and it makes sense (in terms of the narrative anyway) but another year or two down this path and AoS3 will just be the old world again.
 

[Overread]

4 minutes ago, eciu said:

It's actually oposite. Realms are so vast and "empty" that it really doesn't matter what happens and where because in "grand scheme of things" it has no impact on anything great.

On the other hand if someone said that Vladdy is in Altdorf or Belegar finally got Karak 8 Peaks clean it would had tremendues implications. 

I think this is because we as a fans have yet to really establish a sense of what the realms are. 

Furthermore GW has been somewhat useless in giving us a proper timeline, dates and, importantly, detailed maps of every region. A lot of the lore we currently have is spread over quite span of time. We've got the Realmgate Wars where Sigmar is only just appearing; then we've got stories like Heart of Winter where there cities that have been recovered, rebuilt and been running for at least two or three generations along with extensive trade networks forming. To me that says at least several generations and 100 or more years since the Realmgate War. 

 

So I think that has the greater effect. It's not so much size its the lack of ability to place things in relativity to each other in time and space. I think that iwll only come to be once the Lore settles down and once GW gives us a proper time-line of events and slows the pace down so that we are dealing with a tangible span of time. Right now we are dealing with spans of time where most humans are going to be alive in one story and then grandfathers in the next and then dead and buried for generations in the next. The Old World dealt with a much smaller span of time which meant that places like Karak Eight Peaks could establish themselves with a history and we could appreciate the gravity of major events unfolding becauase we could see how they'd have knock on effects on other things.

 

Right now we've got huge cities that are essentially unknown. We can't tell if they are a major powerhouse; a blip; a central seat of power etc... So we can't appreciate the gravity of their loss or conquest or of the shifting political stances.

 

 

Part of it is that GW has shifted from a more mortal driven story to a more god driven one; where mortals feature but only in short adventures whilst the main story plays out to the gods - who transcend time. That Chaos, Sigmar and Death are the primary factions makes sense for this because they all have means to keep their "humanoid" heroes alive long beyond when a Free People hero would be dead and buried. 

[eciu]

29 minutes ago, Overread said:

Part of it is that GW has shifted from a more mortal driven story to a more god driven one; where mortals feature but only in short adventures whilst the main story plays out to the gods - who transcend time. That Chaos, Sigmar and Death are the primary factions makes sense for this because they all have means to keep their "humanoid" heroes alive long beyond when a Free People hero would be dead and buried. 

And imho that's boring stuff. Gods are eternal immortal etc. itd. so that their strife is mostly about who control "these turfs" (in this century), because "next century" previous god will strike back etc. 

So there are literally no stakes in this struggle (see old strife between chaos gods in the Old World). 

[chord]

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

I really don‘t get why people are upset about returning Characters.

it‘s nostalgia and they bring in quite some dynamic since they have to deal with realms instead of one world. I love it especially when these characters explain the old world to the citizens of the mortal realms.

they make AoS even more interesting. (I also loooved the Realmslayer Audio Drama)

I‘d love to see a Dialogue among Gotrek and Sigmar...

Well...its only nostalgia for those who read all the old world novels. For people new to AoS. the stories are just really odd when you're supposed to know references, etc.  

[Retro]

14 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Bloodletters are also screwed against Daemonettes, who forces rerolls of 6 to hit. So you will only have a 1/36 chance of triggering the ability per attack. Looks like Slaanesh definitely got the better deal in this box set...

But against the fiends they now still do mortal wounds. Before on a 6+ they would have -1 hit and never get any at all (same against some other units).

The fact that they get the mortal wounds in addition to the regular damage compensates a bit with small units becoming better than they were and large squads being less reliant on support from heroes/other buffs.