The Rumour Thread

[Still-young]

6 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

That doesnt make any sense...whats the point of them even existing as a faction then?

I believe they were being sarcastic. 

[madmac]

4 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

That doesnt make any sense...whats the point of them even existing as a faction then?

It's sarcasm. I'm just pointing out that if we're doing cross-faction comparisons at all, Fyreslayers have less going on than almost any other army, so their warscrolls being strong enough to ride out that massive disadvantage is actually hugely important to them.

IDK is one of my other armies, compared to Fyreslayers for example they have, basically everything-powerful heroes, behemoths, super-fast elite flying melee units, incredibly powerful allegiance abilities, both wizards and priests, etc.

[Enoby]

On the bright side, loads of times the battle box rules are especially temporary - sometimes only lasting a month or so. No clue why they do it like this (maybe these are beta rules), but hopefully this isn't the final product for Fyreslayer warscrolls.

[Malakithe]

Ahh got it....my rage and complete disappoint has clouded my vision

[Malakithe]

Just now, Enoby said:

On the bright side, loads of times the battle box rules are especially temporary - sometimes only lasting a month or so. No clue why they do it like this (maybe these are beta rules), but hopefully this isn't the final product for Fyreslayer warscrolls.

Dont do that...dont give me hope...

[zilberfrid]

19 minutes ago, madmac said:

Fair enough. After all other armies have access to a wide range of supporting troops of all kinds, magic, powerful buffs, etc. Fyreslayers have the incredible power of their tiny roster and virtually no troop options backing up their vulkites, so they should definitely be less powerful baseline than basically every other army. For sure.

"I don't get it, we gave them nothing and still people won't buy Fyreslayers! Oh well, back to making Space Marines."

GW, probably.

[angrycontra]

I try to be positive on these forums. Heck I even called out people for not to complain before the rules are here. Well now the rules are here and here's my opinion: I'm depressed af. This honestly is the new low of gw rules writing. All they needed to do, was to make hgb less durable and more killy, thus making them dedicated hammer unit, vulkites cheaper and thus becoming better anvil (they didn't even need to change warscroll that much if they had just made them cheaper) and aurics with better shooting profile against all targets rather than just monsters... And what do they do...
Vulkites, same price as before but with literally half their attacks... Sure you can buff them to save 3+ now but eh. Better throwing axes are not gonna save this unit.
Aurics, same crappy 4+ hit but no more extra monster damage. The movement reduction ability is legit good, but it's not gonna save them from being pretty much useless now. And oh yeah, no more hero protection for army that runs many small heroes, great.
Hgb... Same as they were before. Which is good I guess but the writing was on the damn wall... Everyone spams hgb, Gw needed to make them less appealing to spam, not make them even more spam worthy, because they are horrible at writing competent rules for the rest of the army.
Hero, despite not being priest, is actually quite good for 80 points, I will say that much. But how useful he is now, when the #1 unit to sacrifice for better damage (vulkites) are not good enough to include in army.

Sure tome rules could still change something to benefit vulkites or give fyreslayers extra boosts, but outside of "vulkites in fyreslayer armies count as 2 models on objectives instead of 1" style rule writing, I can't see what they can do to fix this mess. Because if there's nothing there, then I have a dead army in my hands. I was fully prepared to be disappointed in seeing that most fyreslayer units in the box would have been unchanged, but to see them being made worse... And honestly, gw should delete their excel point calculator. Those points don't make a lick of sense.

Gw has made bad battletomes before, that much is true. 2 ed khorne, sylvaneth, slaanesh book 2 attest to that. But in none of those books, have there been blatant warscroll nerfs like in this fyreslayer release. Usually those books have been bad because of outdated rules or some weird bad allegiance ability changes.  Even bonesplitterz (bad as they are) at least retained most of their stats in the new orruk warclans book. I had such high hopes for this book, especially coming after excellent nurgle book, but now I'm just depressed...

[Beliman]

6 minutes ago, madmac said:

Fair enough. After all other armies have access to a wide range of supporting troops of all kinds, magic, powerful buffs, etc. Fyreslayers have the incredible power of their tiny roster and virtually no troop options backing up their vulkites, so they should definitely be less powerful baseline than basically every other army. For sure.

I play KOs. Did you know that we have only only 1 battleline that's not conditional. We play without magic, prayers, monsters and we have only an small roster of active buffs that are attached to "one use" artefacts... So yes, I know what are you talking about but I completely disagree with your argument. 

Wait until you have played a few games and understand what are their new pros and cons.

[madmac]

2 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I play KOs. Did you know that we have only only 1 battleline that's not conditional. We play without magic, prayers, monsters and we have only an small roster of active buffs that are attached to "one use" artefacts... So yes, I know what are you talking about but I completely disagree with your argument. 

Wait until you have played a few games and understand what are their new pros and cons.

I play both Fyreslayers and KO, (and Deepkin!) so I know very well how KO play, thank you very much. Better than Fyreslayers, for all sorts of reasons, if I'm being brief.

Not to say KO have no issues, rend-1 and no mortal wounds is tough in the new save stacking meta, and Skywardens are worse than ever but they are much better than Fyreslayers already in 3rd, and if they had an update like what we're seeing for Fyreslayers I wouldn't be happy with that either.

[Beliman]

11 hours ago, madmac said:

I play both Fyreslayers and KO, (and Deepkin!) so I know very well how KO play, thank you very much. Better than Fyreslayers, for all sorts of reasons, if I'm being brief.

Not to say KO have no issues, rend-1 and no mortal wounds is tough in the new save stacking meta, and Skywardens are worse than ever but they are much better than Fyreslayers already in 3rd, and if they had an update like what we're seeing for Fyreslayers I wouldn't be happy with that either.

Disagree, but I think that's more about a subjective matter that shouldn't be discussed here:

Spoiler

KOs are boring, even if they can have good results.

They usually move a big pizza-base (arkanaut-blobs or Ironclad) and pew-pew-pew with one big wombo-combo (AoA, Flare Pistol, WLV,...). And that's without talking about their main features like Fly High and ranged attacks with 4+hits and rend -1 (or our ships with really swingy attacks). Our most classic loadout to play a melee list is Thryng with lot's of balloon boyz or Zon with Skywardens (yep I've played a lot of games with Zon to play something a bit diferent even if it's a worst list).

Appart from that, just use allies to play something more interesting: bridge+cities or ol'HGB+smitter...

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by Beliman

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

6 minutes ago, angrycontra said:

Sure tome rules could still change something to benefit vulkites or give fyreslayers extra boosts, but outside of "vulkites in fyreslayer armies count as 2 models on objectives instead of 1" style rule writing, I can't see what they can do to fix this mess. Because if there's nothing there, then I have a dead army in my hands. I was fully prepared to be disappointed in seeing that most fyreslayer units in the box would have been unchanged, but to see them being made worse... And honestly, gw should delete their excel point calculator. Those points don't make a lick of sense.

Personally, I always try to stick to the principle of charitable reading for new rules. That is: Assume that author is competent and has good reasons for writing what they did, and then try to work backwards from that to figure out their thought process.

In this case, for Vulkites, this would be my attempt. Being 2 wound models, they can be treated like being 2 1 wound models with their attack profiles halved instead. If you look at them like this, that invites comparisons less with Grave Guard and other elites, and more with Skeletons and other "trash" units. From that point of view, they don't look so bad. 80 or 85 points per wound is a good rate, and the shield guys get a 4+ save. Disegard their attack profile, because that's not their role (even if the double hand axe warscroll makes it look like that). Instead, treat a block of 20 shield Vulkites as an objective holding unit that also gets to deal charge mortals. That, at least, looks like kinda appropriate points for their role.

I don't know how to read axe Vulkites as worthwhile, though. My only explanation for them would be that something in the allegiance abilities will have to make them worth using.

[Aztok]

Can't believe that the Vulkites aren't at LEAST 2 attacks base. Gutrippaz will beat them every single time and they cost 10 points more, and I still think Gutrippaz are mediocre. In what world is a 2 wound model only getting one attack base? That's real silly.

[pnkdth]

42 minutes ago, angrycontra said:

I try to be positive on these forums. Heck I even called out people for not to complain before the rules are here. Well now the rules are here and here's my opinion: I'm depressed af. This honestly is the new low of gw rules writing. All they needed to do, was to make hgb less durable and more killy, thus making them dedicated hammer unit, vulkites cheaper and thus becoming better anvil (they didn't even need to change warscroll that much if they had just made them cheaper) and aurics with better shooting profile against all targets rather than just monsters... And what do they do...
Vulkites, same price as before but with literally half their attacks... Sure you can buff them to save 3+ now but eh. Better throwing axes are not gonna save this unit.
Aurics, same crappy 4+ hit but no more extra monster damage. The movement reduction ability is legit good, but it's not gonna save them from being pretty much useless now. And oh yeah, no more hero protection for army that runs many small heroes, great.
Hgb... Same as they were before. Which is good I guess but the writing was on the damn wall... Everyone spams hgb, Gw needed to make them less appealing to spam, not make them even more spam worthy, because they are horrible at writing competent rules for the rest of the army.
Hero, despite not being priest, is actually quite good for 80 points, I will say that much. But how useful he is now, when the #1 unit to sacrifice for better damage (vulkites) are not good enough to include in army.

Sure tome rules could still change something to benefit vulkites or give fyreslayers extra boosts, but outside of "vulkites in fyreslayer armies count as 2 models on objectives instead of 1" style rule writing, I can't see what they can do to fix this mess. Because if there's nothing there, then I have a dead army in my hands. I was fully prepared to be disappointed in seeing that most fyreslayer units in the box would have been unchanged, but to see them being made worse... And honestly, gw should delete their excel point calculator. Those points don't make a lick of sense.

Gw has made bad battletomes before, that much is true. 2 ed khorne, sylvaneth, slaanesh book 2 attest to that. But in none of those books, have there been blatant warscroll nerfs like in this fyreslayer release. Usually those books have been bad because of outdated rules or some weird bad allegiance ability changes.  Even bonesplitterz (bad as they are) at least retained most of their stats in the new orruk warclans book. I had such high hopes for this book, especially coming after excellent nurgle book, but now I'm just depressed...

That is my sentiment as well.

The only light I can see at the end of the tunnel is if some of the abilities have been moved into allegiance abilities, sub-factions, or tied to FS hero warscrolls (which has happened in new tomes). However, with the new warscrolls I can't see how they'll help the overall lacklustre and bland as heck warscrolls we've seen. We still have to deal with the idiotic change "wholly within 9"" for H.Zerkers, Auric still won't kill anything, and everything is less than it used to be... But it is something to hope for, I suppose. Maybe.

What really would be icing on the cake is if they actually go with the lofnir magmadroth spam buff, complete with the fake enthusiasm I've come to expect from previews and warcomm articles about we should all be excited to field yet another braindead unit spam list cause just look how shiny those new cool rules are! Even if this kind of list would be interesting it would also somehow be worse since that would mean FS would be reduced into one trick pony monster spam army.

My track record in AoS is cursed. First HoS and now FS. 😆

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

5 minutes ago, pnkdth said:

My track record in AoS is cursed. First HoS and now FS. 😆

At times like this I wish there was a "Press F to pay respects" reaction on this forum.

[OkayestDM]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

On the bright side, loads of times the battle box rules are especially temporary - sometimes only lasting a month or so. No clue why they do it like this (maybe these are beta rules), but hopefully this isn't the final product for Fyreslayer warscrolls.

Something to reinforce this thought is the fact that the Allopex Alpha has a +1 bonus to hit rolls for (melee?) attacks, a design which has been replaced in all of the new books so far by the much more practical +1 to the attacks characteristic.

This certainly isn't definitive proof, nothing prevents GW from regressing to the more cumbersome rules if they prefer, but it does lend credence to the possibility that these are holdover rules until the battletomes are dropped.

Edited January 15, 2022 by OkayestDM

[zilberfrid]

50 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I play KOs. Did you know that we have only only 1 battleline that's not conditional. We play without magic, prayers, monsters and we have only an small roster of active buffs that are attached to "one use" artefacts... So yes, I know what are you talking about but I completely disagree with your argument. 

Wait until you have played a few games and understand what are their new pros and cons.

• Fyreslayers have 4 non-hero options (including chosen axes). They have one option (one of ther 12 heroes) to make another thing battleline.
• Kharadron have 8 non-hero options (including Thundrik's). They have 4 options to make something else battleline, with the option to have 4 different battleline options.

On the other side, Fyreslayers have 12 heroes and Kharadron 8. One of those is the new hero.

Maybe the new tome gives Fyreslayers the option to clump three heroes together as a unit and/or magmadroths as separate monsters, but extra unit choices would have been a lot better.

 

[Beliman]

@zilberfrid Completely agree.

Fyreslayers problem is their low quantity of non-hero models

Edited January 15, 2022 by Beliman

[Kaleb Daark]

Since we have Vulkite berserkers why not Kite berserkers, with wee winged contraptions on their backs like the skittaari skystalkers?  Thermal currents caused by furnace runes and all that, and different enough to not be floaty dwarf balloon dudes.

 

... or just give them the FW magma dragon in plastic and be done with it.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Kaleb Daark

[Gaz Taylor]

1 hour ago, Doko said:

Seems obvious dwarfs got the bin guy and idoneths the seraphons and lumineths guys.

+++ Mod Hat On +++
Just to make it very clear - no more bin and sin references to people working on the books. It’s not nice and I’m pretty sure if I started calling people the “bin guy” about work they do, you would get annoyed.

 

[madmac]

5 minutes ago, Beliman said:

@zilberfrid Completely agree.

Fyreslayers problem is their low quantity of non-hero models

It's one of their big problems, but it's only made worse by the rules they get.

Looking at these new warscrolls, Auric HG and twin-axe Vulkites are actually useless and will never see play. HGB is still the only good option, but worse than before which is not good for the army. Shield Vulkites are in a weird place where they might have a role now but 170 points is still a steep asking price for basically wounds and a 4+ save and no damage output.

Arguably their unit balance is worse than ever, leaning even harder on their nerfed HGB to have a gasp of a fighting chance.

[Doko]

Hearthguard berzerkers have got HUGE nerfs.

First they have lost the 6+++if no close to heroes.

Have gone of within 10 to wholy within 9" doing them 100% useless due to be melle and have 30 base,every army got changed of withing to wholy witin and got increased the range but us got nerfed the range also

And also a nerf of 10 points.

Seriously these changes are stupids and  make a mediocre army now the worst army of the game

[mojojojo101]

Was thinking of making a small Fyreslayer army at some point this year but definitely delaying that decision till we see a new book now.

Not sure how they could make the roster more boring but they managed it.

Obviously their small roster needs additions but even what they do have it feels like they could be doing much more.

 

[Ragest]

Maybe the bodyguard is an allegiance and every troop can do it?

 

is the only way i see that army working

Edited January 15, 2022 by Ragest

[Clan's Cynic]

Clearly all of the old stuff is being made worse because they're going to release a giant wave of new stuff that will be brokenly OP.

Right?

Right...?

[Doko]

I really reaaaally i am triying not vent all my rage here but i only gonna state my tougths and try not be negagive:

 

Fyreslayers a army with 3 units after 7 years got 0 new units

Fyreslayers that are middle\botton tier got destroyed and gonna the worst army now

Fyreslayers style of play have been destroyed also,a army reliying in 5 wounds heroes with bad save have lost the bodyguards to try save them and also we have units of 30base and only 1" range doing them umplayable with 3.0 coherency and now hearthguard changed of within 10" to wholy within 9" because every other army that was changed from within to wholy got a increase but......we are dwarfs so we get only a decrease.

Now lets see new scrolls:

 

Vulkites with dual axes: continue with 30 base and 1" range so they are umplayable in new coherency,also nerfed from reroll all misses to situational a +1 attack

Vulkites with shield and pick: nerfed HARD lossing a 50% of damage(from 2 attack to only1) and moreover a increase in points because......why only decrease a 50% the damage of a unit that never is played is we can nerf his cost too?

Hearthguard rangued: lost double damage to monsters,changed of halves the movement to only a -1 and also lost bodyguard,so was nerfed his stats and also lost its purpose...........a unit of 130 points with 3'8 damage.......but in same box we have reavers with 8'8 damage or 10 if 9" for 170

Hearthguards melle: a nerf in points and lost 6+++ without hero and changed his aura of within 10" to wholh withim 9" doing them very hard to play when they have 30 base 

I usually i am a very criticism people as for sure everyone know allready,but really someone can tell me some positive that i dont see? Because i ordered two of this box and im so down rigth now that i think i gonna cancell the order and only keep my fs army as was because its imposible get in the mood of build them when every unit is ****** .

I really dont get it,fyreslayers were even being very positive a middle tier army,how is posible that EVERY unit have been nerfed veeeeery hard? We arent speaking about seraphons or lumineths getting nerfed one or two units, we are speaking about a bad army getting every unit being nerfed into the ground.