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218 Celestant-Prime

About angrycontra

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  • Birthday 08/30/1989

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  1. It sounds like translation error. That 4+ prayer feels to me that it was made like that by design (since it's best prayer in the book)
  2. Well unlike dispossessed, fyreslayers have fast units in magmadroths plus runesmiter deepstriking. Furthermore once per game +2 to move from allegiance power plus run and charge mechanics from vostarg lodge and/or prayers give them extra edge. They're still not that great with objectives but better than dispossessed for sure.
  3. It pretty much depends on tome but I can say for fyreslayers that any prayer they know, they can attempt to use. Normally this means their warscroll prayer and book prayer (as well as magmic invocations) but there are command traits that allow picking extra prayers. The wording on prayers goes something like "if a friendly fyreslayer priest knows this prayer he may attempt to use it in hero blaa blaa". Nothing in the book prevents using multiple prayers, only restrictions are that each (book) prayer may only be attempted once and no more than one magmic invocation can be attempted per priest
  4. Well for one, those are old points. After quick calculation you can have everything you have there except for battalion. Your army is exactly 1000p without battalion so if you really want that battalion you need to drop 140p of something from your list. Needless to say, you don't have any wiggle room in that list for magmic invocations or command points.
  5. I have no problem with measuring distance or the fact that you can attack from 2 ranks with 1" weapon when you have 25mm bases. I used to have problem with it but I've made my peace with the system. But... what I do have problem (as mentioned above) is that Gw is doing extremely poor job calculating point values based on base sizes. Now I'm not saying that unit with 25mm bases should cost twice more or anything crazy like that but I could see 10p increases to some unit (and 10-20p decreases to some units with 32mm bases). Best example is indeed gors vs ungors. Now gor warscroll is terrible even without this, but it's made far worse by their bigger base size. Large unit of ungor will outdamage large unit of gors simply thanks to their base size. But I can understand dilemma it creates for gw: why should this more elite muscular gor unit cost same as "weaker" ungors? This is why I actually want gw changing warscrolls more frequently as points alone are not good enough for proper balance changes.
  6. Well can't say there are too many. Vulkites are better in smaller units than they used to be, but I'm not really sure if they give any major value for dispossessed. Hg berz. need fyreslayer hero which limits their use as allies (you can basically only take 10 man unit, which with hero costs about 400p). Aurics are useful as allies. If you take 10 aurics, they cost 40p more than 10 irondrakes but you get double the wounds and double damage against monsters. Put hero like runesmiter there and they can be deepstriked and aurics will even protect runesmiter if you wish. Grimwraths are pretty solid allies (especially since they lack leader role, this means you could add 4 of them without ruining your army). Magmadroths are not that great as allies. Loss of artifacts, magma traits and any helpful save stacking makes them not so strong as allies.
  7. Even though I don't collect slaanesh, I am rather disappointed with the lack of mortals. Honestly all gw really needed to do was to release 1 mortal unit, maybe something akin to blight kings. It could've been dual kit even, giving slaanesh 2 mortal options. That wouldn't have made pure mortal armies work but it would allow people to make more mortal focused armies (mix of demons and mortals).
  8. First of all, all your examples have 1 wound (with phoenix guard being technically exception). Vulkites have literally double their survivability. Secondly, fyreslayers get easy access to save stacking so that can make vulkites even more durable. Thirdly, phoenix guard are pretty strong yes, but that is also the reason why phoenix temple based order lists have done well in tournaments. They're too good for their points. And even there... Even there the difference is only 20p and vulkites have ability to pile in after death (not to mention allegiance advantages) which should count for something. Also vulkites get full rerolls with axes. As for the dispossessed example, well getting 20 guys in melee is lot harder than getting 10 in melee (despite smaller bases) and once again, allegiance advantages for fyreslayers are the reason why they're better army than dispossessed (for now). But seriously, do you really have nothing else to contribute to this thread (or any other thread for that matter) than constant whining and crying? Every time I see overly negative comment in this forum, I don't even need to look at the name to know it's you. It's just a game. If vulkites are bit meh, they get point cuts in the future. Same with everything else. Besides, at this point it's too early to tell and each army has it's own strenghts and weaknesses, you can't always tell straight away whether unit x is better than y.
  9. Had my first fyreslayer game yesterday. 2000p against legions of nagash (not nighthaunt focused). Here's a quick version of my list: Hermdar lodge Runefather on magma (general) Runesmiter on magma Runemaster Battlesmith Knight incantor 3x10 vulkites 15 hg berzerkers (poleaxes) Molten infernoth Lords of the lodge ------------------------------- I did lose the game but it was very close one plus (literally something like 1-2 objective points difference) my slayers performed much better against death than they have in the past (fyreslayers have always struggled at wiping death units due to resurrect mechanics). Anyway here's some observations: 1. Knight incantor was worthless. Some could have seen it coming but I wanted some magic power in my army. This guy barely managed to unbind anything and completely failed at damage too. I would have probably won the game if I had replaced him with extra 10 vulkites (had 30p left over) because then I could've captured one of the objectives and outlived a unit of chainrasps. 2. Hg berzerkers are pretty amazing but I don't see multiple units of them being a good idea. These guys managed to kill stuff probably twice their points worth but... they were stuck in one place for the entire game. They're good at surviving and killing, but they're still too slow at killing stuff fast enough. Taking multiple units of these guys means less bodies on board which in turn means less ground to cover (not to mention their hero dependancy). Further more, they do have somewhat swingy damage, especially with poleaxes. Sometimes they do great, sometimes not so great. 3. Magmadroths were quite tanky but not too impressive on damage department. I'm actually thinking of running both of my magmies as one "unit", with runesmiter giving claw hit rerolls from that artifact and save rerolls from magmatrait (not to mention wound rerolls from prayers) while runefather takes the ignore 1 rend trait plus the lodge artifact plus lodge c. Trait (-1 to enemy wound rolls around 12"). I can see these two running around fast killing stuff. 4. Prayers were really cool and fun to use. Generally I really like most of the fyreslayer prayers and I have really tough time choosing what I want to give my priests (other than that 1 mandatory +1 to sv rolls prayer). Molten infernoth was pretty cool too, it did reasonably good job at softening multiple targets (and was very easy to resummon whenever it disappeared.) The only problem was that the rest of my army couldn't finish the job on that side of board (if only I had taken those 10 extra vulkites). All in all, it was a fun first game for fyreslayers and I still have plenty of lists to test. As a side note, not sure how many people have noticed this but all the reroll hits/wounds/etc. Do NOT have the word "failed" in them. This means that regardless of modifiers, you can reroll everything (even successful ones if you're crazy enough to do that) which is great.
  10. I really love the design of lodges in this army. I can see myself playing all of them. Even lodgeless army can work due to some really potent command traits. Every lodge has at least one or two extremely useful tools at their disposal and they really encourage different army builds. I'd argue that Lofnir is the worst but it is still the best option for magmadroth and auric hearthguard -heavy lists. My personal favorite lodge is Hermdar, that command ability that allows melee activation at the start of combat phase is just awesome plus that -1 to wound command trait is pretty insane too. All in all, this book feels pretty cool option-wise, I think gw really managed to at least encourage (even if they're not all viable) different army builds for fyreslayers. I still kinda feel that they missed real opportunity with molten infernoth. Had gw removed it from the magmic incant. Box, replaced it with some other decent looking spell, and then put it in its own box with 1 extra hand and couple extra head -options, it would've been fantastic new unit for the army ('cause the model looks great).
  11. Well how about this to replace turn roll: The player who wins initiative role gets to choose one (and only one) unit that can act in advance (minus command abilities). You can do everything with that unit from hero to charge phase before opponent gets to act. When combat phase starts you can choose to attack with that one unit before opponent selects any units to pile-in and attack with. If you chose to activate unit this way, you can't do it later in your own turn (so no double hero phase or anything). This way there is still that surprise element and extra tactics but other player doesn't have to wait billion years when opponent gets double turn.
  12. I voted against double turn. Originally I've been in favour of turn roll but recently it has been the source of biggest negative experiences for me in aos. Let me give some examples: 1st game. Me playing skryre against dok. My opponent got some really lucky long charges and caught me by surprise. I lost most of my army that turn. Almost threw a towel at that point. Anyway, it's time for turn roll. I win the roll, make comeback and win game through objectives. So what am I on here about? Well... if I had lost that roll, it would've been 100% defeat for me (double turn for dok). One roll literally dictated the entire course of the game. One roll. People often say that double turn makes games more exciting and allows miraculous comebacks but what it also does, is to allow people to steamroll and make double points from objectives. This skryre vs dok game was plenty exciting even without any double turns during the game (it was igougo entire game) but had that 1 roll failed, it would've been lame game, heh my opponent was even willing to give me the turn had I lost the roll, so how is that for a good game mechanic. 2nd game. Fyreslayers and gobbos vs boc and slaanesh. My fyreslayers and team mate's gobbos got double turn. During that double turn we killed all remaining slaanesh heroes and secured our objectives. This prevented slaanesh from summoning anything and boc from utilizing those summons to cap objectives. Needless to say, we won that match, but our victory didn't feel earned. Maybe this game was already in our favour, but once again, at least it would've been more fun match if it weren't for that double turn. I enjoy consistency. Can double turn make some matches really great? Sure but at the cost of ruining other games. No turn roll means that there won't be any real fun surprises but it also means that all negative surprises will be out as well and games will be overall consistently more enjoyable. Now some rule changes would be necessary for removal of turn roll (like endless spells) but it can be dealt with.
  13. 120p hearthguard feel bit low. I mean, it is small model count compared to vulkites but still, that's basically 20 wounds with 5 hearthguard berzerkers with better combat stats than vulkites. Vulkites do have better objective game but man 40p is rather big difference (also with no mass discount for vulkites, 30 vulkite units are pretty much dead, so gonna make some extra champions and musicians to reduce those unit sizes). Grimwrath and doomseeker as non-leaders is fantastic. Gonna buy couple extra grimwraths in the future for sure. Endless prayers seem reasonable in their pricing. Runemaster is too expensive (runesmiter just still feels better option) but at least it doesn't ruin your game anymore. Magmadroth seem reasonable, runesmiter magma big point increase is justified imo. All in all, fairly happy with points. But I really think they botched hearthguard berzerker and vulkite points. I think vulkites would be better at 150 (with mass discount) with hearthguard being 140 but we'll see how it goes. My biggest fear is that people are just gonna do hearthguard spam opposed to vulkite spam.
  14. I'm fairly happy with these warscrolls. Most units got some kind of buff and those that got nerfed (battlesmith and runesmiter) the nerfs were expected (wholly within ranges and prayer rolls and runesmiters can't be placed in reserve same time with the deepstrike unit based on wording of that ability) and they got other stuff to compensate for it (battlesmith has better melee and +1 to save is better than rerolls in some cases and there are probably artifact banners in book, while runesmiters get extra prayer from allegiance stuff plus endless prayers). I also like the crazy amount of save stacking these guys can get. I'm especially happy that gw didn't go too wild with these changes, my biggest fear would've been that fyreslayers ended up hitting like a truck while taking blows like iron fortress but they seem reasonably balanced (in aos 2 standards). With that said, points are still concern. Too cheap, and fyreslayers will be broken. Too expensive and fyreslayers will be useless. I'm especially concerned about magmadroths. Gw has a bad track record of buffing unit's stats only to increase their cost too much making the buff near worthless (looking at you beast of nurgle). Based on magmadroth buffs, their cost should remain more or less exactly what it is now (20 points more I could still live with). Lack of unbinds is unfortunate but maybe gw wanted to give fyreslayers this specific weakness (they have strong prayers themselves that can't be unbound after all). And on more positive note, my converted knight-incantor is still useful ally for the army.
  15. First of all, based on rumours, only vulkites lose their beard saves and considering that everyone and their mother were asking for better vulkites at min size units, 2 wounds should deliver that easily. This fact alone will not only save points for fyreslayers (as we will no longer need full units of 30) but it will also allow fyreslayers to spread out their forces more easily (since instead of having 3 big blobs, we can have 3-5 smaller groups, mixed with other fyreslayer units.) Which is good as objective game has always been one of the biggest weaknesses of this army. Secondly, aurics are getting massive buff. 2 wounds for them is quite literally 100% survivability buff for them and that is exactly what they need. Thirdly, how do you even know that we're losing hg berz battalion? Fec has flayers battalion that allows pile in and attack in hero phase, why wouldn't fyreslayers have one? Further more, having 2 attacks (at 2" range) immediately is so much better than having to survive into hero phase and then pile in and attack (plus that requires battalion and only one unit can benefit from it). Finally, if the rumours are true, hg berzerkers have both their slayer saves and their 2 wounds, which is huge boost for their overall survival. And let's not forget that the 2 prayers they have shown are already pretty damn powerful (pile in and attack with hero, +1 save) and god only knows what else is there. Magmadroth traits are interesting plus they haven't even shown hero changes (you know command abilities etc.). Now sure throwing axes got nerfed, whoop-de-doo, they never were that big part of fyreslayer damage to begin with (outside of maybe warrior kinband). I'm expectingvsome point increases too but considering that aurics got 100% survival boost (and most likely 100% dam boost against monsters) while hg berzerkers got 100% damage boost while possibly also getting 100% survival boost, some point increases are more than justified. So yes, based on everything I've seen, and based on other comments, you are probably the only one seeing doom and gloom here. Stop looking into it so negatively. The biggest issue with fyreslayers has always been that they were one trick pony, vulkite spam was the only competetive way to play. It's obvious from these previews alone that that will change.
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