The Rumour Thread

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, Tiberius501 said:

Okay now that I’ve gotten my major disappointment that they aren’t chilling on mortal wounds or shooting out of the way,

I suggest to wait and see for the whole edition to launch (that means to wait for all the rules, GHB2021, and the middle-year Errata/FAQs). We only know one charge reaction (Unleash Hell), but just remember that Ben Johnson talked about reaction in all phases of the game (yep, shooting phase too). People freak out because there is going to be one unit that will shoot out of phase (at -1 to hit), but there are some rumors that can change a bit our perspective about that:

• Cap of +1/-1 to wound and hit (or modifiers): That will stop some big blobs of handgunners to shoot at 2+. And remember that we have some way to add +1 to saves (that could be capped, but still, wait for the rules).
• Units will become smaller: we have a hint with the big blobs of zombies, going from 60 to 40 max. That means 33% less of models that could attack. 

And remember that there are a lot of things going on: Unit Coherency will stop some models to hit in melee (less dmg overall), a lof of +1 saves (and still we need to know terrain rules, remember "defensible terrain"!), a lot less rerolls (Generic CAs moving to flat +1 to hit) and the rumor of being capped seems to fit nicely with this edition. We could expect to see more units with a rockin 2+/ 3+saves (looking at Gravelords and Anihilators) and some  7 wound heroes (even magic-users!), the return of Ward Saves (we already had that, but now, it can be used as a generic rule!! hueeee), more healing (Rally and Heroic Actions) and Lifeswarm under control! And a lot of other things that I can't figure it out until I play the game.

Of course mortal wounds are still going to hurt (I'm a bit sad about them), but we have two samples of what we can expect: SCE have some conditionals mw output (charge and falling from sky) that can be played around (charge them and zone them). Btw, mortal wounds on a charge seems to fit nice to play around Unleash Hell (and coherency rules means a bit more dificult to set-up some chaff, look for a flank!). Krule Boyz are going to try to fish for that 5+/6+ hits  like Zombies and Sentinels (that have a lot more going like ignoring LoS, Rerolls and 19 ranged attacks for max-unit at 30"). From what we know about zombies, they have low volume of attacks and the whole Allegiance lost some easy mechanics to stack attacks. Let's hope to see exactly the same here...

I won't lie, I really don't like to play with mortal wounds when we already have Rend that counters 2+/3+saves, but I will wait to have some games under my belt before complaining.

Sorry for this big wall of text, but remember that battletomes can change too. We are going to play 3.0 with 2.0 battletomes (that are over the top with doble-taps, more mortal wounds, etc...), so take that in mind too.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Beliman

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, Tiberius501 said:

Okay now that I’ve gotten my major disappointment that they aren’t chilling on mortal wounds or shooting out of the way, I’m mad keen on getting these figures anyway. The game is fun enough how it is, and the models and fun with friends are still worth it.

My last concern has me pretty worried though. I have a bad feeling that they’ll use a new edition as an excuse to get rid of the cheap PDF’s and make the books more expensive, like they did with 40K 9th.

If they don’t do that, I’ll be fine. If they do do that, I may try to insight a riot. 

In what country are you? PDFs in Europe are about the same price as physical books, and can get more expensive.

Maybe they want to lock digital content behind Warhammer+

[KingBrodd]

5 hours ago, KriticalKhan said:

Anyone else thinking we might see more of the "uber-leaders" for factions come out in 3e?

Most armies have a structure where there's a smaller force that players can fluff out as "their's" that's beholden to a larger organization comprised of many of the smaller ones. I'm talking stuff like Stormcast Chambers to Stormhosts, Flesh Eater Kingdoms to Empires, BoC Beasterds to Greatfrays, etc.

In the case of the Flesh Eaters, we already have an example of this, with (get this) Ghoul Kings leading Kingdoms that are subservient to the Empires of Archregents. 

In the case of Ogres, we have Tyrants (who have a model) that lead armies that are under the wider command of Overtyrants (who don't). Stormcast have Lord-Celestants, Aquilors, etc. who lead Chambers that are parts of the wider Stormhosts, headed by Lord-Commanders, who have no table-top presence.

Given that we have examples of this with Archregents and plenty of god-level characters on the field already, I can't see a legitimate reason other armies don't have access to these leaders who exist in the lore, and the whole system seems like an easy way for GW to squeeze out a bit of extra dosh from players with armies that aren't likely to see real releases for a while. Great potential for alternate builds as named characters, too.

 

3 hours ago, Indecisive said:

That'd be nice.
Some people dislike named characters, but I do like factions having some sort of fieldable bigshot. Gives you something for you to really rally behind and follow their narrative threads. Without such a character you sort of feel like you are on the sidelines.

If your faction is all nameless, they tend to not do much in narrative.
Ogors need something. As do Beasts. FEC has their guy, the deadbeat just needs to turn up someday.

Mawtribes literally have the perfect 2 characters just waiting for models.

Globb Glittermaw, Overtyrant of the Meatfist tribe and Frost King Braggoth Vardruk of BCR.

Globb Glittermaw is described as being the size of a Gargant, I would assume a Mancrusher as a Mega Gargant sized Ogor would spell doom for any living thing within 100km of the Great Gutfort. Having jewels encrusted into his jaw he could make an awesome model, an intimidating non comical version of Gresus Goldtooth from WHFB.

And the Frost King, I cant even begin to imagine the type of beast they could mount him on, not much is described of him besides his charred black hand from when he shoved it into a Ironblaster.

But that's 2 characters already established in lore for both sides of the Mawtribes. Perfect. 

[Deakz28]

5 hours ago, KriticalKhan said:

Anyone else thinking we might see more of the "uber-leaders" for factions come out in 3e?

Most armies have a structure where there's a smaller force that players can fluff out as "their's" that's beholden to a larger organization comprised of many of the smaller ones. I'm talking stuff like Stormcast Chambers to Stormhosts, Flesh Eater Kingdoms to Empires, BoC Beasterds to Greatfrays, etc.

In the case of the Flesh Eaters, we already have an example of this, with (get this) Ghoul Kings leading Kingdoms that are subservient to the Empires of Archregents. 

In the case of Ogres, we have Tyrants (who have a model) that lead armies that are under the wider command of Overtyrants (who don't). Stormcast have Lord-Celestants, Aquilors, etc. who lead Chambers that are parts of the wider Stormhosts, headed by Lord-Commanders, who have no table-top presence.

Given that we have examples of this with Archregents and plenty of god-level characters on the field already, I can't see a legitimate reason other armies don't have access to these leaders who exist in the lore, and the whole system seems like an easy way for GW to squeeze out a bit of extra dosh from players with armies that aren't likely to see real releases for a while. Great potential for alternate builds as named characters, too.

I could see models like this get released alongside battletomes, much like what is happening with 40K with some armies getting lager updates similar to that of sisters of battle and Beast snagga orks, once we get stormcast and Kruelboys out (space marines and Necrons) I feel we will get a leader character for each book (much like skitarii marshal and lelith) and maybe a OBR wave 2 and possibly a new faction (or a new faction to combine) pissibly the rumoured dwarf soup, dark elf soup or lord know hahah! Regardless, good times are ahead for AOS, I can feel it, I feel we will get the last of the old factions this edition too so GW can make more progress to the AOS original sides of each faction are revitalise some older armies  

Edited June 9, 2021 by Deakz28

[JonnyTheKing]

On 6/8/2021 at 4:01 PM, chosen_of_khaine said:

Hot take: AoS doesn't have nearly as much power creep as people tend to claim. If you look at winrates, there is surprisingly little correlation between how new a book is and how effective it is - that said, there are obvous exceptions to this (Gloomspite, Nighthaunt, Stormcast, which at least have 40%+ winrates)

Another hot take: The game is better *with* mortal wounds than without them, and having MW represent "non-physical" damage (i.e. magic, poisons, etc) that isn't mitigated by armor is in fact very fluffy.

I knew this would be coming from a Lumineth player 😉

Edited June 9, 2021 by JonnyTheKing

[JonnyTheKing]

Honestly right now, I’m kinda down on AoS 3.0, the coherency rule makes no sense, people online immediately pointed it out as being stupid so how did the writers of the rules not realise it? And the game also doesn’t need reactions that involve shooting, why? AoS has kinda had me down since the first Slaanesh Battletome and right now with Lumineth being the unbearably boring army to face that they are right now due to their NPE this has kinda just been the final nail in the coffin for me right now 

hopefully it turns out ok!

[Ogregut]

25 minutes ago, JonnyTheKing said:

Honestly right now, I’m kinda down on AoS 3.0, the coherency rule makes no sense, people online immediately pointed it out as being stupid so how did the writers of the rules not realise it? And the game also doesn’t need reactions that involve shooting, why? AoS has kinda had me down since the first Slaanesh Battletome and right now with Lumineth being the unbearably boring army to face that they are right now due to their NPE this has kinda just been the final nail in the coffin for me right now 

hopefully it turns out ok!

I'm loving what I've seen so far. The game seems to be moving into a more dynamic and cinematic direction. 

A rampaging army of orruks are charging towards your lines, your commander gives the orders to form up, spears in front, missile in the back. 

The orruks are nearly here, the ground trembles at their charge. The order to fire is given. 

A few boyz fall but not enough to stop the charge, the wall of green hits and slaughter begins. 

In real terms, I doubt unleash hell will have a huge effect. It costs a CP which is a valuable resource, it's at  - 1 to hit which can be a big diffrence and unit sizes are going to be smaller as per the coherency rules. 

Also were seeing a few rules on their own, it's best to wait to see the whole picture and play some games to try them out. 

[SunStorm]

10 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

I'm loving what I've seen so far. The game seems to be moving into a more dynamic and cinematic direction. 

A rampaging army of orruks are charging towards your lines, your commander gives the orders to form up, spears in front, missile in the back. 

The orruks are nearly here, the ground trembles at their charge. The order to fire is given. 

A few boyz fall but not enough to stop the charge, the wall of green hits and slaughter begins. 

In real terms, I doubt unleash hell will have a huge effect. It costs a CP which is a valuable resource, it's at  - 1 to hit which can be a big diffrence and unit sizes are going to be smaller as per the coherency rules. 

Also were seeing a few rules on their own, it's best to wait to see the whole picture and play some games to try them out. 

Good take! 

I hope they do more teasing around the way they will advance the lore rather than drip feeding rules that taken without any context only stoke internet rage rather than get people excited. 

I'm also hoping they announce more about how Path to Glory will work and if it's closer to the 40k Crusade playset.

 

[Chikout]

I hope today's model preview isn't just the scenery. I'm rather on the fence about the box set. Some more info about what's coming next would really help me decide what to do. 

[silverstu]

15 hours ago, Jagged Red Lines said:

'Nature elf soup' sounds like wanderers are getting taken out of cities. 

So potentially dispossessed will go to 'dwarf soup'.

Which leaves the dark elves and high elves. Har kuron has some recent lore, so that's probably staying.

But I'm getting increasingly worried for my phoenix guard army. Maybe time to look at ebay while they're still worth anything

Not necessarily - I'm not sure they would simply port over dispossessed into a new Duardin Nations book, I think its more likely to be brand new dwarfs in a reclaimed kingdom or reclaiming kingdoms. Kurnothi and nature elves would be a new thing. They could still have different types of elves and duardin in Cities, it all depends on wether they see Cities as purely human forces in the future, which they could well or they could see it as a blend of mostly humans with others in smaller amounts. 

I'm pretty excited at the prospect of new dwarf models if Grungni rearms and reorganises the dwarfs to take back their lands with KO and Fyreslayers adding to the cause. 

16 hours ago, Indecisive said:

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/5527#comment-5409586744

Cheers! Not sure if they are discussing the rumours that are already doing the rounds or just adding their confirmation, probably the later. 

[Clan's Cynic]

10 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

Haha, to me she was the opposite with being their death sentence.

They could've easily made her a Wanderer (the Kurnothi short story even mentions animal mutations can occur in normal aelves) but instead they did everything to clarify she was Sylvaneth from keyword to giving her a stomach seed and being from a sub-realm only Sylvaneth are allowed in.

So though it can still be up to speculation that seems very intentional they're doing more and more to push them out of the lore ever since Lumineth took over the niche of nature aelves that heal the land and commune with animal realm spirits.

I think it could go either way. Between her and the Wild Hunt there's definitely going to be some kind of Not!WoodElf coming to the Sylvaneth, that's for sure, but it comes down to whether they'll be Lumineth-esq OCdonutsteal or recycle some/all of the surviving Wood Elf kits that're in CoS. I just found it interesting that her antlers could easily be taken as either a thing grown from her body or as a crown that's shaped to her head (but not at such an angle it would only 'fit' if they'd grown). 

Them specifying her being Sylvaneth doesn't mean they can't handwave the sudden inclusion of Wood Elf models again as, "well the enclaves that never fled were always there and supported by Alarielle, we just didn't see them on-screen yet." Plus if they do have Kharadrons and Fyreslayers being BFFs with Grungi again there's no reason to believe they wouldn't equally handwave away "uh sure Alarielle forgives them now or something, just up and go buy more models."

Edited June 9, 2021 by Clan's Cynic

[Tiberius501]

5 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

In what country are you? PDFs in Europe are about the same price as physical books, and can get more expensive.

Maybe they want to lock digital content behind Warhammer+

Are you talking about Warhammer PDF’s or PDF’s in general? Typically in Aus PDF’s are a lot cheaper than physical copies. And with Sigmar you can get really cheap PDF’s within their app currently. I’m worried they’ll get rid of that and go for the 40K rout of needing to get the physical book to get the PDF.

[Arzalyn]

A "leak" is circulating in our local AoS whatsapp group, I not sure how true it is but since we are in the rumor thread...

 

Spoiler

Hallo! Hier mal einige neue, massive Rules-Leaks, deren Quelle ich nicht angeben kann. Aber ich lege meine Hand dafür ins Feuer, dass sie legit sind. Hab sie alle für euch von Bildern abgetippt, bitteschön. 😘

- The players receive an extra command point if their General in on the table in the Hero Phase. Command Points not spent at the end of the Battle Round are lost.

- Redeploy: A reactive Command Ability that is used in the enemy movement phase, and that allows moving a unit D6".

- Run and Movement Phase Command Abilities: A Unit that has rolled a Run roll cannot then be Commanded to "At the double" (where the run roll counts as a 6) - the decision has to be made whether to roll the dice of At the Double. A Player can no longer roll the dice, get a poor result and the choose to spend the command point to make the roll count as 6 - it's either/or, not both.

- Charge Phase Command Abilites: Forward to Victory is a Command aBility that allows charging units to reroll the charge roll. Unleash Hell is a reactive Command Ability that allows a unit near to the charging enemy unit to shoot the charging unit.

- Pile In: Models no longer need to pile in towards the nearest enemy modely. "The new wording is: When you male a pile-in move with a model, it must finish the move no further from the nearest enemy unit than it was at the start of the move." As such you can move around the edge of a unit when piling in.

-Attack Sequence: Hit Roll and Wound Roll modifiers are capped at +1/-1

- Slain models: A minor change that has a large impact on some armies: slain models are now not removed until all wounds caused to its unit have been allocated and all attacks that inflicted damage on the unit have been resolved.

- Wards: Some abilities allow ward rolls. Wards offer protection against wounds and mortal wounds before being allocated to a model. A successful ward roll negates a wound or mortal wound, and that damage has no effect on the model.

- Contesting Objectives: Unless rules take precedence, Monsters count as 5 models, and non-monsters with a wound characteristic of 5 or more (heroes), count as 2 models when Contesting Objectives.

- Miscasts: Wizards who roll an unmodified cast roll of "2" miscast their spell. They suffer D3 mortal wounds and cannot attempt to cast any more Spells in that Hero Phase.

- Spells: Arcane Bolt and Mystic Shield are now both cast on a "5". The effects of both speels have also both changed slightly, although very similar, they have a shorter range but are both more powerful.

- Pitched battle Profiles and Unit Size: Unit Maximums have now been removed but Reinforced Units have been introduced, as well as a limit of Reinforced Units in Marched Play. "Single" has been introduced as a keyword for Pitched Battle Profiles. "Single" Units cannot be Reinforced.

 

[lare2]

3 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

A "leak" is circulating in our local AoS whatsapp group, I not sure how true it is but since we are in the rumor thread...

Always good to read more rumours 👍

[JackStreicher]

nothing new though.
For all non-germans: He says that he typed the rules down directly from the pictures. Also the source seems to be a reliable one.

Edited June 9, 2021 by JackStreicher

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

5 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

- Redeploy: A reactive Command Ability that is used in the enemy movement phase, and that allows moving a unit D6".

This one is interesting because it comes with a name attached. If we see the name "Redeploy" on warcom, these rumours are probably legit.

7 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

Pile In: Models no longer need to pile in towards the nearest enemy modely. "The new wording is: When you male a pile-in move with a model, it must finish the move no further from the nearest enemy unit than it was at the start of the move." As such you can move around the edge of a unit when piling in.

I was just speculating about this in the rules thread after we saw the new coherency rules. Maybe GW rules designers actually do play their own game after all? 🤔

8 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

Slain models: A minor change that has a large impact on some armies: slain models are now not removed until all wounds caused to its unit have been allocated and all attacks that inflicted damage on the unit have been resolved.

I don't understand the implications of this. Can anyone provide some insight?

[Boar]

8 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I don't understand the implications of this. Can anyone provide some insight?

I am not sure, is that really that different to what we have now? Will depend on exact wording but maybe units that lose f.ex. armor save below certain treshoold like some grots and rats will lose it later? Tough it's still kinda worked that way before hmm...

Unless it means all attacks from all enemy units, in such way it would impact everyone

So strange, need more data

[Ragest]

15 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

nothing new though.
For all non-germans: He says that he typed the rules down directly from the pictures. Also the source seems to be a reliable one.

If you validate this is enough for me

[Arzalyn]

12 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I don't understand the implications of this. Can anyone provide some insight?

Mortek coming back with the Harvest ability? If I'm not mistaken it would make them roll for all models simultaneously instead of one by one 

[PrimeElectrid]

> Pitched battle Profiles and Unit Size: Unit Maximums have now been removed but Reinforced Units have been introduced, as well as a limit of Reinforced Units in Marched Play. "Single" has been introduced as a keyword for Pitched Battle Profiles. "Single" Units cannot be Reinforced.

Woah if this is accurate and I understand correctly it is massive. So most units will be in minimum size with a small number that can go over (reinforced units)?

There’s almost a dynamic there between big units for scoring and big shooting units, but big shooting units > big scoring units so there’s that.

[zilberfrid]

31 minutes ago, Tiberius501 said:

Are you talking about Warhammer PDF’s or PDF’s in general? Typically in Aus PDF’s are a lot cheaper than physical copies. And with Sigmar you can get really cheap PDF’s within their app currently. I’m worried they’ll get rid of that and go for the 40K rout of needing to get the physical book to get the PDF.

I was talking about Warhammer PDF's. Can't talk in general, too many vendors (though often cheaper). There's a good chance that the PDF price you pay is also about the physical book price in Europe or the UK (if you count the retailer discount, which you won't get for digital sales). The rest is the Aus/NZ tax (and shipping).

I don't know about the Azyr app, I don't have it on my phone.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

12 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

Mortek coming back with the Harvest ability? If I'm not mistaken it would make them roll for all models simultaneously instead of one by one 

Is that meaningfully different, though? I guess because you have to put down returned models within 1" of models that were not returned previously it might be?

[Arzalyn]

1 minute ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Is that meaningfully different, though? I guess because you have to put down returned models within 1" of models that were not returned previously it might be?

Probably will force them to bubble wrap the harvest if they want to roll for all the models. Now you could keep some mortek near it and the reamining foward, keep allocating wounds to one model near the harvest and keep getting it back.

[KingBrodd]

2 hours ago, Chikout said:

I hope today's model preview isn't just the scenery. I'm rather on the fence about the box set. Some more info about what's coming next would really help me decide what to do. 

Me too. Phil Kelly on Twitter did point out the terrain yesterday, which makes me think it will be the terrain in detail.

[Ragest]

I'm the only one that when thinking about singles can’t stop watching salamander's face?