The Rumour Thread

[Snorri Nelriksson]

@Chikoutthat's a good point.

If the "bin battletbattletomes" are consciously made because 3.0 will tone down "power levels" makes sense.

Still i'd say there's  still room to improvement maybe?

Edited May 28, 2021 by Snorri Nelriksson

[Hoseman]

One more day!!!!

I can't wait, and there's no potato camera pictures or something, this makes me more curious to see both new armys.

[RuneBrush]

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[GutrotSpume]

13 minutes ago, Chikout said:

All the talk of lazy and 'bin guy' is really quite frustrating. I'm really not sure what people want from their rules. 

There are a few things to think about.

First is that gw writes rules for narrative flavour first. That means that Kroak is still Kroak when he gets a new model. Alarielle is still Alarielle. I see the similar warscrolls as  consistent and not lazy. 

Kroak needed a nerf and he got one without fundamentally changing the way he plays. His death mechanic introduces a bit of randomness which I think is a good thing. AoS is a dice game. 

Alarielle got several buffs, a 2d6 heal, a better spell, a better living battering ram and a chance for an instant kill. Whether that's worth the points is another matter. 

Kragnos is a fun beatstick who can do a lot of damage but isn't unkillable. Again points may be an issue. 

Putting all the gloomspite rules in one place is a good decision but I can understand the frustration of people wanting more, especially players of the other destrucion armies. 

It is my opinion that the likes of Lumineth, Tzeentch, Seraphon and DoK are the problematic books. 

I believe that if every book came in at the level of the Soulblight or Mawtribes, the game would be in a better place. 

When I complain about lazy rules I’m not complaining about the power level of something. I dont want my armies to have broken rules I just want effort spent on the battletome. I was gonna start Gravelords then I saw things like the Vykros dynasty having a baffling re roll spells alliegence ability which makes no sense. Then there’s things like almost every hero on foot having 3’s 3’s -1 D3 damage as their attack profile and worst of all is the Wight Kings command ability being blatantly broken. Honestly took one read through of that to realise it doesn’t work. This to me is what I mean by lazyiness. If GW want my money they need to spend more time and effort on these Battletomes.

[Grotbag Scuttlers When]

***TINFOIL HAT ON***

I was wondering... what if they don't want people to play big centerpiece models?

• From a business perspective, it doesn't really change that much, right? Usually big models tend to have a convenient points/money ratio. And I guess a lot of people would buy them anyway, just because they look cool, like dioramas.
• From a lore perspective, it doesn't make much sense for gods to be in every skirmish, right? Maybe they care about stuff like this.
• From a game perspective, tied with the point above, it's much more fun if seeing a god on the battlefield is rare. Right now is: "Oh, I'm against Amidmunch Potatokings, I should prepare against Tuberous the pancreas destroyer." Instead it should be a surprise. "Oh wow, he took the big fella. What is he planning?"
• Big models are annoying to carry around. Again, they are much more Dioramas than toy soldiers. Maybe it's because they never wanted them to be a staple of the meta. Something that you buy for another reason and if you really really want you can use them in the game (like Cursed City villains)

***TINFOIL HAT OFF***

Yeah probably they just want to bump down the power level at the start of the edition so that they can later powercreep up with the various releases.

[Feii]

2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

And what happens if a rule kills him instantly? That case isn‘t covered by his rules

Water tight

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

13 minutes ago, Grotbag Scuttlers When said:

***TINFOIL HAT ON***

I was wondering... what if they don't want people to play big centerpiece models?

• From a business perspective, it doesn't really change that much, right? Usually big models tend to have a convenient points/money ratio. And I guess a lot of people would buy them anyway, just because they look cool, like dioramas.
• From a lore perspective, it doesn't make much sense for gods to be in every skirmish, right? Maybe they care about stuff like this.
• From a game perspective, tied with the point above, it's much more fun if seeing a god on the battlefield is rare. Right now is: "Oh, I'm against Amidmunch Potatokings, I should prepare against Tuberous the pancreas destroyer." Instead it should be a surprise. "Oh wow, he took the big fella. What is he planning?"
• Big models are annoying to carry around. Again, they are much more Dioramas than toy soldiers. Maybe it's because they never wanted them to be a staple of the meta. Something that you buy for another reason and if you really really want you can use them in the game (like Cursed City villains)

***TINFOIL HAT OFF***

Yeah probably they just want to bump down the power level at the start of the edition so that they can later powercreep up with the various releases.

I think it's fairly possible that they want the god models to be mostly played in the narrative games or 3000 point sphere.

But I think there is also a trend towards increased point costs in general, starting with Slaanesh. Soulblight has higher points across the board, especially for Nagash who is now at 975. I think if Kragnos, Allarielle and Kroak follow this pattern, then we might be looking at overall higher points/smaller lists in AoS 3.

[Jagged Red Lines]

Just now, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I think it's fairly possible that they want the god models to be mostly played in the narrative games or 3000 point sphere.

But I think there is also a trend towards increased point costs in general, starting with Slaanesh. Soulblight has higher points across the board, especially for Nagash who is now at 975. I think if Kragnos, Allarielle and Kroak follow this pattern, then we might be looking at overall higher points/smaller lists in AoS 3.

Definitely think they'll hike points significantly across all armies at the start of 3.0, especially if board sizes are reduced.

[Nezzhil]

The rumours say that all the Gloomspite content is a compilation of the WD articles.

[Boingrot Bouncer]

7 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I think it's fairly possible that they want the god models to be mostly played in the narrative games or 3000 point sphere.

But I think there is also a trend towards increased point costs in general, starting with Slaanesh. Soulblight has higher points across the board, especially for Nagash who is now at 975. I think if Kragnos, Allarielle and Kroak follow this pattern, then we might be looking at overall higher points/smaller lists in AoS 3.

Since Kragnos has been leaked to be 760, Kroak 430, and Allarielle 740 they seem to have given the gods a quite high point cost, the problem being that Teclis and Morathi is at 660 and 600 which seem low comapred to Nagash, Kragnos and perhaps Allarielle (I haven't seen her war scroll).

So while Morathi and Teclis (whos points could have been increased in the BR-books) is something you can build a really good list around, it feels like Kragnos and the new Nagash will almost never be seen in list unless you only play for a cool game with gods.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Boingrot Bouncer
forgot to add a thing.

[zilberfrid]

Having points numbers increased is a good thing!

I was worried a bit about the price of entry increasing bit by bit, because there has been quite a deflation of points in the last few adjustments.

With a crusade-like entry, maybe a revisit of Meeting Engagements and points increases across the board, at least AoS itself will be easier to get into.

[Enoby]

I think this uncertainty and disappointment could have been a lot better managed by GW if they'd have just given previews on the other warscrolls. At the moment, we're basing it off leaks and Twitter opinions and people are already unhyping themselves and preparing for the worst (with all Twitter opinions being "this book sucks"). Similar things happened with the Slaanesh book leaks and the Gravelords leak too. 

[Chikout]

32 minutes ago, GutrotSpume said:

When I complain about lazy rules I’m not complaining about the power level of something. I dont want my armies to have broken rules I just want effort spent on the battletome. I was gonna start Gravelords then I saw things like the Vykros dynasty having a baffling re roll spells alliegence ability which makes no sense. Then there’s things like almost every hero on foot having 3’s 3’s -1 D3 damage as their attack profile and worst of all is the Wight Kings command ability being blatantly broken. Honestly took one read through of that to realise it doesn’t work. This to me is what I mean by lazyiness. If GW want my money they need to spend more time and effort on these Battletomes.

I'm not saying rules that are lacking in thought don't exist. I'm saying that what I've seen so far for Kragnos doesn't fall into that category. I'd agree that the vampire lore is poor, but Kroaks death rule is interesting. 

[zilberfrid]

6 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I think this uncertainty and disappointment could have been a lot better managed by GW if they'd have just given previews on the other warscrolls. At the moment, we're basing it off leaks and Twitter opinions and people are already unhyping themselves and preparing for the worst (with all Twitter opinions being "this book sucks"). Similar things happened with the Slaanesh book leaks and the Gravelords leak too. 

I'm not sure.

Warscrolls without context and points can still be unclear. 

It's heresy in the rumours thread, but well, rumours can be a bit misleading.

And yes, I myself tend to jump on things quite a bit as well (see the supposed evisceration of Kharadron's identity by cramming them into a tome with Fyreslayers).

[Blitzd]

6 minutes ago, Chikout said:

Kroaks death rule is interesting. 

Kroaks death rule is the same as the old battle tome with just differnt numbers. It's the epitome of lazy.

[Enoby]

2 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

I'm not sure.

Warscrolls without context and points can still be unclear. 

It's heresy in the rumours thread, but well, rumours can be a bit misleading.

And yes, I myself tend to jump on things quite a bit as well (see the supposed evisceration of Kharadron's identity by cramming them into a tome with Fyreslayers).

They can be, but I think they're a controlled sort of unclear.

For example of controlled unclear:

"Here's Kragnos's Warscroll, he looks very strong. I wonder how much he will cost?"

Commence speculation on points costs.

And as for what we have now from Twitter:

"The melee twin is really bad, Alarialle isn't worth the increase, Kroak is boring, we don't even care about the Revenant it's that bad"

 And speculation starts with a negative twist. It's less "oooh that's an exciting rule, I wonder how much it will cost or if there are any more" and more the bitter taste or disappointment.

[Dankboss]

4 minutes ago, Blitzd said:

Kroaks death rule is the same as the old battle tome with just differnt numbers. It's the epitome of lazy.

Not as lazy as a 4+ ward save.

[Feii]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

All the talk of lazy and 'bin guy' is really quite frustrating. I'm really not sure what people want from their rules. 

There are a few things to think about.

First is that gw writes rules for narrative flavour first. That means that Kroak is still Kroak when he gets a new model. Alarielle is still Alarielle. I see the similar warscrolls as  consistent and not lazy. 

Kroak needed a nerf and he got one without fundamentally changing the way he plays. His death mechanic introduces a bit of randomness which I think is a good thing. AoS is a dice game. 

Alarielle got several buffs, a 2d6 heal, a better spell, a better living battering ram and a chance for an instant kill. Whether that's worth the points is another matter. 

Kragnos is a fun beatstick who can do a lot of damage but isn't unkillable. Again points may be an issue. 

Putting all the gloomspite rules in one place is a good decision but I can understand the frustration of people wanting more, especially players of the other destrucion armies. 

It is my opinion that the likes of Lumineth, Tzeentch, Seraphon and DoK are the problematic books. 

I believe that if every book came in at the level of the Soulblight or Mawtribes, the game would be in a better place. 

Still the power level of soulblight is good but some of the decisions are feel bad rules that have no place in modern game desing and anybody who wrote them should feel bad. 
 

Lauka Vai and avengori rules that they lose themselves in the battle seem like some nice fluffy rules but then you read the lore and understand that they missed the mark. Lauka Vai shouldnt have the rule, she is able to restrain herself and sooth minds of her brood psychicly over great distances. Another thing is that she doesnt get casting bonuses when in the lore she could melt mortals with her psychic gaze and can restrain multiple avengori lords. 
 

Fluffy guy in me is sad that she has inadequate rules lore wise and competitive guy in me tells you that not being able to choose and stripping of my agency for almost no payoff is one of the worst things a game designer can do his players. Sure give enraged avengorii lords random movement attack everybody around at random cannot cast spells or use CA but they should turn into megagargants and more power level wise in that turn or just let me choose. 
 

 

Have you seen the kastellai dynasty relics? One of the unique subfaction relics is worse than a realm artifact and locked behind once per battle. I firmly believe that if you did such a ****** job in any serious workplace your boss would be talking to you what is the problem with that kind of performance. 

[zilberfrid]

6 minutes ago, Enoby said:

They can be, but I think they're a controlled sort of unclear.

For example of controlled unclear:

"Here's Kragnos's Warscroll, he looks very strong. I wonder how much he will cost?"

Commence speculation on points costs.

And as for what we have now from Twitter:

"The melee twin is really bad, Alarialle isn't worth the increase, Kroak is boring, we don't even care about the Revenant it's that bad"

 And speculation starts with a negative twist. It's less "oooh that's an exciting rule, I wonder how much it will cost or if there are any more" and more the bitter taste or disappointment.

Mostly when I now see an exciting rule, my thoughts are more "Would they have thought about the consequences of this rule?" considering the answer too often seems "No".

Cases in point: Spell in a bottle, Petrifex, Scryhawk Lantern etc.

[Aeryenn]

Hope the points on Alarielle are wrong. The buffs she received make her finally playable. Going to 740 makes her bad again.

[Ragest]

Points confirmed

[Feii]

5 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Mostly when I now see an exciting rule, my thoughts are more "Would they have thought about the consequences of this rule?" considering the answer too often seems "No".

Cases in point: Spell in a bottle, Petrifex, Scryhawk Lantern etc.

I would much rather have exciting rules that sometimes break than boring rules. 
 

I think the new Blood Knight rule/kastellai rule is an amazing example of that. Same goes for megagargants rules. 
 

in an ideal world GW would just FaQ online rules.

[Boingrot Bouncer]

3 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

Hope the points on Alarielle are wrong. The buffs she received make her finally playable. Going to 740 makes her bad again.

Her points have been confirmed by an ittalian leak.

[Enoby]

Kragnos confirmed at 760 too

[Incineroar87]

Looks like bin writer strikes again from what I've seen and heard.

 

I don't understand how they can make Morathi and Teclis super powerful and cost effective but others are written in the opposite way, the inconsistency and inbalance is concerning because it instantly kills any viability or purpose.