Which faction needs the most TLC?

[Enoby]

There's been some great releases in AoS and pretty much all of them have created interesting factions, or made creative changes to an already existing faction. However, there are still many factions which are a bit, well, less than great - either they're too weak to play, lack fun/thematic rules, or have close to no variety.

What factions do you think need the most care, and how would you do it? 

(Note, while the actual answer is probably one of those one model factions, let's try keep it to factions that can be legally played in matched play) 

[blueshirtman]

Destruction for sure. Right now what at best destruction can pull of is situationally good, and most of the time destruction as a faction is full of not really working gimmiks.

[Skreech Verminking]

Destruction, Skaven, The old splitten Dark elves and High elves faction (free cities),  and Warherds.

those faction, with the exception worsening them, haven’t been touched at all in the past 3-4years.

it would be nice, to get for those faction some new reliable allegiance and artifacts and if possible mixed battletomes.

like for the Aelves maybe some kind of an free city Battletome, for skaven a mixed skaven one, just like Gw did for death, and for destruction it would be nice to have some updates for the Ironjaws, some good battletomes for other greenthing and ogor factions.

as for warherds, they always seemed to have been a part of brayherds, they also fit very well to that faction.

it would be great if they gave them the brayherd  keyword.

 

[Black Blade]

Kharadron Overlords. I see people mentioning Destruction which is a broad allegiance and I would tell those people that there are solid rumors of Destruction being the focus of 2019 so dont worry. 

But as I said its KO. They are a real cool and interesting faction with a lot of potential but are terribly under powered, they either need a rework from the ground up (keep the models but overhaul the rules and synergies) or they need an injection of 3ish or so more kits to really give the lineup diversity and viability. Maybe even lump in newer kit Duardin in heavy armor like they are a separate caste that are hired by the sky pirate dwarves?

[Caffran101]

Destruction as a whole.

But probably BCR in particular.

I'd say FEC need some help

[Overread]

It varies. 

For example Order has a lot of bits of Aelf and human factions cluttered around that need some cleaning up. Either dropping them (noo!); putting them into a single (or three - dark, high, human) Battletome as a collected series of mercenary forces (like free cities); or giving each a dedicated battletome (kind of nice idea and one or two might go this way but would lead to serious range bloat if done, in my view). 

Meanwhile I agree that Destruction as a whole needs some attention - Death has had a lot, Chaos is pretty well up to date barring Slaanesh (which is hinted very strongly at getting its update at some point in the next year or so) and whilst Order still has a lot of mess its at least got several big releases (Daughters, Deepkin, Stormcast)

[Gotrek]

Spiderfang. 

[Kamose]

Personally, I'd say Greenskinz or Grots of some flavor. Destruction generally needs some love now that Death is rolling in it (the love, that is (ew)).

My money's on Moonclan or Spider Riders but I love to see some kind of Greenskinz/Grots Legion book too.

I get the feeling that factions don't generally get overhauled unless GW can think of a way to fit them into the AoS setting in some unique way. Moonclan are a pretty sure thing but I'm not sure where that leaves Greenskinz.

P.S. I recently stumbled into the open sewer of Dakka Dakka and found a similar thread to this one floating along; not "TLC" but "'poop' codexes". Can I just say how nice it is that this thread is not a pointless, whiny, bitter hatefest but rather a pleasure to read? ?

[Kyriakin]

Considering miniatures only...

(1) Soulblight.

• Blood Knights look OK, but are resin and what my old ma might describe as "a bit dear".

• Both forms of bats are an embarrassment.

• Vargs look like they should be in FEC.

• Resin characters.

There is the potential for a great Lhamean-type army that builds off Neferata and the Coven Throne (maybe with male Blood Knights in their thrall), but the current model situation is horrendous.

(2) Clan Eshin

They have the Silver Tower doppelganger and the coolest Verminlord. Furthermore, you can make Gutter Runners with Blood Bowl minis (especially Forgeworld's), but...

• NIGHTRUNNERS!!!

(3) Dispossessed

Since the DoK release, Dispossessed are perhaps the most popular non-battletomed army:

• Like many holdover factions (e.g. Brayherd, Darkling Covens, Wanderers, Free peoples, etc.), they urgently need things that aren't just infantry dudes. For example, a new Anvil would be awesome.

• However, the aforementioned "infantry dudes" still mostly look great (well, some aren't particularly old anyway).

[Galdenistal]

I'd say Kharadron Overlords, they came out with a Battletome that seemed rushed amd quickly got patched. Then the army plays in a very 1 dimensional way leaving a bunch of great looking models with rubbish rules.

[JackStreicher]

2 hours ago, Overread said:

It varies. 

For example Order has a lot of bits of Aelf and human factions cluttered around that need some cleaning up. Either dropping them (noo!); putting them into a single (or three - dark, high, human) Battletome as a collected series of mercenary forces (like free cities); or giving each a dedicated battletome (kind of nice idea and one or two might go this way but would lead to serious range bloat if done, in my view). 

Meanwhile I agree that Destruction as a whole needs some attention - Death has had a lot, Chaos is pretty well up to date barring Slaanesh (which is hinted very strongly at getting its update at some point in the next year or so) and whilst Order still has a lot of mess its at least got several big releases (Daughters, Deepkin, Stormcast)

I am pretty sure Dark Elves will be added once Malerion enters the gaming table, the same goes for Tyrion and High Elves.

apart from that I‘d say:

Breyherds, Ironjaws, Ogres, KO, unaligned chaos, slaanesh, Tomb Kings (C‘mon there‘s already enough story layed out for them to rejoin the worlds in  the deserts of Shyish, or Nulahmia etc.), Knights of the fallen World (Bretonnia redone, darker theme, led by Abhorash which is a mix of human, vampire and sth. More since he drank that dragon blood. Located somewhere in Ulgu where they use the shadows to hide their existence)

[HollowHills]

Probably all of destruction in my view. Ironjawz are the only faction that has received any attention since AoS released and even then they are far from perfect. At the end of first Ed they weren't really viable at all and now are heavily reliant on one command ability combo. If you can get your army into combat and fire off two or three waggggh command abilities you will probably win. Otherwise they don't have much going for them. 

BCR just haven't been good since the stone skeleton was nerfed. I know a lot of people hate the snowball but at best that's six wounds. That's at best. Their battleline is just shockingly bad and they don't have the models to hold objectives.

Bonesplittaz just haven't been a thing since cunnin ruk was neutered. 

Thankfully it looks like moonclan will get a battletome and iron guts are actually in a position where something could be done with them in the future. 

[El Syf]

45 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Knights of the fallen World (Bretonnia redone, darker theme, led by Abhorash which is a mix of human, vampire and sth. More since he drank that dragon blood. Located somewhere in Ulgu where they use the shadows to hide their existence)

This would be beyond awesome!

[PensivePanther]

My poor gutbusters could really use a battallion...or an allegiance ability. 

[Lord_Skrolk]

3 hours ago, Gotrek said:

Spiderfang. 

Agreed, but rumour is they might get lumped in with the Moonclan Grots when they get their new battletome.

I have a Spiderfang army and would be 100% happy with that outcome as long as there is some way to still use Spider Riders as battleline, maybe making them "battleline if..." units that are battleline if you have Moonclan allegiance and a Spider Big Boss or Shaman on Arachnarok as your general

[kenshin620]

4 hours ago, Black Blade said:

Kharadron Overlords. I see people mentioning Destruction which is a broad allegiance and I would tell those people that there are solid rumors of Destruction being the focus of 2019 so dont worry.

Other than Moonclan/Grots, I don't think we have any other destruction rumors.

 

Also Beasts of Chaos/Beastmen/Brayherd+Warherd+Thunderscorn. Beastmen have literally be garbo tier since 2010/pre 2010 when warriors stole all the goodstuff. Buuuut supposedly brayherd may be getting lumped into Dark Oath? Who knows at this point. GW really needs to figure out how to make Markless Chaos good/interesting in AoS. If they can do it in 40k, why not fantasy!

 

[Mephisto]

What a fantastically loaded question. A wonderful excuse for some mental exercise... where to begin? Ah yes, like any great thought experiment, let's establish some parameters for the pure fun conjecture, "funjecture" if you will. 

First let's look to the last series of releases. I'm going to put the Nighthaunt and the new Stormcast Battletomes in a little bubble called "released for 2.0." and omit them from my projection. A new edition is a big deal and an outlier with extra stuff put in. That leaves in the last year Maggotkin (which ended up delayed), Daughters of Khaine, Idoneth Deepkin, and Legions of Nagash. I think a battletome per 3 months is a bit ambitious but doable so I'll make four bold, completely not based in any sort of reality predictions.  

Those last four battletomes were excellently written. They set a new standard really for what I expect from GW going forward. If we look at the KO tome for instance it is simply not up to par.  FEC and Beastclaw Raiders are similarly unimpressive and I expect AT SOME POINT for them to re-release them in some capacity. Whether they just take a hammer to those tomes as it exists and release new, updated thing or perform surgery via FAQs, Errata, and the GBH2019 next year. The latter  is unsatisfactory as the problems with these armies isn't just reserved to their point costs. 

So let's say my "first pick" of the arbitrary four I've given myself is a rerelaase of those three armies. The skeleton is already there with models and fluff and such so I don't think it would take a "full release." They could easily package and roll out those changes intermixed throughout the year between the other "big releases" I expect. Just do a "KO Revised" or "BCR 2.0" or "FEC Revitalized" battletome for each. I'm not sure how the players of those armies would feel about having to buy a second Battletome, I suspect fine if their beloved armies are actually good again. 

Now the hard part of the funjecture begins... "new" stuff.

The big one is Skaven. They need the Legions of Nagash treatment. One big book with all the goodies in one place with rules for running your clans like enclaves/legions/etc but then have a sort of "grand host" or "skaven united" thing. Add some new units. Some new models. Sprinkle in some battalions, artefacts, and maybe retool the bell or wheel as an endless spell and you've got a recipe for excellence. It is a travesty that one of the most unique ideas GW has ever had, an entire race of unique IP stuff doesn't have a proper battletome. That Skaven are heavily featured in the recently released Vermintide and Total Warhammer 2 video games and in malign portents / soul wars fluff makes them seem primed for a big release. You'll get the video game crowd into it and have perfect justification to your existing fans. Dude, I have NEW skaven ghost models now. No reason Skaven players themselves can't get some love too.

The popular prediction right now is Moonclan Grots or Spiderfang or Grot Something. Do it. Give the people what they want. I don't think destruction "needs" the help if BCR get the above treatment. IJ are in a very good spot with 2.0 changes. I have a separate entire rant about how I think Destruction needs a new race besides orcs and goblins but I'll table that for now.

The final one I foresee/expect/think needs a release is Slaanesh. Sure, this sort of doubles-up on Chaos releases for the calendar year but I don't count skaven based on my pure, you can't argue with it opinion for... reasons. So yeah, Slaanesh. Slaanesh's return has been HEAVILY teased/implied by the lore and even faction focuses. I think a Slaanesh return can also be your next big Malign Portents style yearly narrative thing. It also makes sure we finally have all of the Big Four so from there you can start specializing and dropping minor splat book sub-factions in later years. It would also IMPORTANTLY lead into the following year of releases *cough* the re-imagined High Elf/Dark Elf factions *cough*. Folks got two elf factions in one year, I feel like a one year cool down between two more elf releases would appease most fans.

There you have it. My Stone Cold Bold Predictions For the Year TM.

A re-release of KO/BCR/FEC. Points adjustments and errata aren't good enough.

Legions of Skavegash. An all-in-one tome for Skaven ala Legions of Nagash with a couple new models, artefacts, battalions, synergies, and an Endless Spell of uniquely skaven flare.

Moonclan Grots. Because... give the people what they want. Also Night Goblins Monster Riders are sweet.

Slaanesh Returns. Complete the Four. Do a narrative thing. Set yourself up for the next year of releases which should involve "Elf Stuff."

[ClockworkGeo91]

5 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Destruction, Skaven, The old splitten Dark elves and High elves faction (free cities),  and Warherds.

those faction, with the exception worsening them, haven’t been touched at all in the past 3-4years.

it would be nice, to get for those faction some new reliable allegiance and artifacts and if possible mixed battletomes.

like for the Aelves maybe some kind of an free city Battletome, for skaven a mixed skaven one, just like Gw did for death, and for destruction it would be nice to have some updates for the Ironjaws, some good battletomes for other greenthing and ogor factions.

as for warherds, they always seemed to have been a part of brayherds, they also fit very well to that faction.

it would be great if they gave them the brayherd  keyword.

 

Hear hear, as a warherd collector - we need some love!

[ClockworkGeo91]

36 minutes ago, PensivePanther said:

My poor gutbusters could really use a battallion...or an allegiance ability. 

Yup and my Warherds...even if they were allowed to share the Brayherd one.

[murphs]

The destruction grand alliance is in a shambolic state and needs urgent correction. That we've had 2 or 3 Stormcast battlestomes since the last destruction one makes me want to strangle somebody, although I completely understand why it's the case.

High Elves and Dark Elves are in a terrible state also. I can never understand why the shattering of those factions was done for reasons other than turning old players away from them.

[Skreech Verminking]

31 minutes ago, murphs said:

The destruction grand alliance is in a shambolic state and needs urgent correction. That we've had 2 or 3 Stormcast battlestomes since the last destruction one makes me want to strangle somebody, although I completely understand why it's the case.

High Elves and Dark Elves are in a terrible state also. I can never understand why the shattering of those factions was done for reasons other than turning old players away from them.

Yeah I understand you fully, I for myself don’t like the stormcast army at all, too.

what I’d like to see is some kind of renewing and updating noncompetitive Amy’s, (which aren’t stormcast) like skaven, green things, giant meat things (ogors), Aelvethings (high, dark and wood elves), warherd maybe beardthings (Ko, Disspossesd), manthings (free People, Brettonien)

and flesh eater courts.

but hey at least it seems like Gw is on a good start, and maybe (which is most likely (maybe not (not sure at all)))

there might or will be a Moonclan grot battletome coming out.

 

[Mephisto]

I'm sorry, @murphs, what did you find confusing about my post? Perhaps I can elucidate. I know I was a bit long winded but I thought I was quite explicit in what changes I would make to which factions moving forward for a calendar year of releases. 

[Kronos]

In terms of Alliance, its Destruction without a doubt as all they’ve really had in term sof new kits is Ironjawz, though they have had some pretty cool battletomes with Beastclaw Raiders and Bonespliterz. Beastmen are the faction I think needs the most attention, Lots of their heroes were taken and only really need Daughters of Khaine style update to be a really phenomal army, a big character, some supporting Characters and maybe even a new monster or unit, personally a new plastic chariot with tuskgor and razorgor would suffice. I’d also nominate Morghur (obviously) to be their central driven character.

[Infernalslayer]

Beasts of Chaos (Brayherds, Warherds, Thunderscorn), Chaos Undivided - Everchosen, Greenskinz to name a few.

[jaxom]

A lot of the more obvious ones have already been mentioned, so I'm going to to say the Grand Alliances. I think the initial release of AoS and the faction splitting was a massive knee-****** reaction and the Grand Alliances were the bandage; hence, no faction allegiance abilities or anything like that and factions of one model (cough Firebelly cough). I think Free Cities were an interesting experiment and could be improved on for Order and Destruction (specific cities for Order and specific hordes for Destruction).