AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[angrywicket]

Hi, I'm running a mortal khorne army and am thinking about adding a brass despoiler batallion (warherd only). Anyone have suggestions for buffs/characters to add that can impact the beastmen?

So far I've got the bloodsecrator and slaughterpriest.

[Kazimer]

3 hours ago, angrywicket said:

Hi, I'm running a mortal khorne army and am thinking about adding a brass despoiler batallion (warherd only). Anyone have suggestions for buffs/characters to add that can impact the beastmen?

So far I've got the bloodsecrator and slaughterpriest.

The Blood Stoker also works as it just needs the Khorne keyword. Otherwise thats about all you get.

[Silchas_Ruin]

I been running a Gore Pilgrims, 30 Bloodletters and Wrath Bloodthirster and Bloodstoker to buff them. Changed the last points around a bit, couple of Khorgoraths, Skullreapers to get max out of Killing Frenzy if Bloodletters go down early.

I'm getting ready to go to my first turnament in the new year and Bloodletters can no longer do the job I build my list around. So trying to decide what to go for.

Lots of mentions of Council of Blood, I could do Wrath, Insensate Rage (with Ghyrstrike) and Skarbrand and Gore Pilgrims. 2 drops is nice, but not sure how you actually make it work against big units. Bloodthirster don't hit that hard and die easy.

I was wondering if this list could work:

Allegiance: Chaos
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Wrath Of Khorne Bloodthirster (320)
- General
- Trait: Immense Power 
- Artefact: Mark of the slayer 
Daemon Prince of Khorne (160)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 
Bloodsecrator (140)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives

Units
5 x Skullreapers (170)
- Daemonblades
5 x Wrathmongers (180)

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (200)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125
 

2x10 Blood Warrriors with Bronzed Flesh and backed up with Skullreapers and Wrathmongers against hordes. 

2 big and fast monsters with artifacts for those battleplans.

Wrathmongers and Deamon Prince with Sword of Judgement against monster list.

3 Slaughterpriest with rerolls for mortal wounds or pulling of objectives.

Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster maybe with Doppelganger Cloak instead so I can trow it forward, most games only really get a use out of it a couple of times anyway, so not sure nerf makes me drop it.

[TheHiddenWaffle]

On 12/16/2018 at 9:52 AM, Dan.Ford said:

As said above

 

Somewhere way back in this topic or even last edition I felt Bloodletters are what made Khorne competitively stick around, these  have been altered, which means the grip on t he competitive meta has been lost or is v ery  los e .

So as a pretty noob khorne player how do I cut down my best friends seraphon army now that I can't just buff a murder ball to ignore his 2+ re-rollable saves that ignore rend of 1?

Edited December 21, 2018 by TheHiddenWaffle

[TheHiddenWaffle]

And how much outcry would it take to get back the murder balls?

[Beulettor]

Someone knows if "Decapitating Blow" rule will change on other Bloodletters ? (Skull cannon, skullmaster, skulltaker, etc.)

New book edition makes sens, they should edit nearly all daemons...

[Killax]

On 12/20/2018 at 8:40 PM, andysonic1 said:

Let's look at some Khorne tournament lists:

1. Facehammer GT - Daniel Ford gets 4th with a Murderhost list with no Slaughterpriests - https://aosshorts.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/fhgt2018-top-10.pdf
2. Blackout 2018 - Daniel Ford came in 10th, same list
   1. Full Results: https://secure-hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/6/6/7/6674230219d60a55/BLACKOUT18_results.jpg?c_id=22511440&cs_id=22511440&expiration=1545333049&hwt=00a7f46a0e41c2427b50369d9e7bd260
   2. Lists - https://aosshorts.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/BLACKOUT_lists2018.pdf
3. Nova Open - David Fields came in 1st with Council of Blood - https://imgur.com/a/n3q67QS
4. Angelcore 2018 - Vincent Chan dead last at 22nd with zero points - Someone else's list is listed in the list page as well, no idea whats going on here - https://aosshorts.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Angelcore-Lists-2018.pdf
5. Sydney GT - No final results, but there are zero Khorne lists trying to maximize Bloodletter MW - https://aosshorts.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Master-List-Sydney-GT-18.pdf

There are many people who believe buffing Bloodletter's MW makes Khorne competitive, but tournament players appear to not agree. I could continue looking through tournament results and lists but I did right when 2.0 came out and came to the same conclusion: Bloodletter Bomb died with 2.0, not with Wrath and Rapture. Hell, tournament players are probably praising the change as it means your attack isn't dropped when you roll a 6 (I imagine Daniel Ford is grinning ear to ear).

In general: Khorne needs some minor tweaks, but the other, newer armies need nerfs more. Bringing those armies that are OP due to one reason or another down to the level of their predecessors will indirectly buff Khorne back to where it was pre-2.0. I'd rather they didn't knee-****** buff us and make us the new hated army of the year (which GW has been known to do in the past).

The fact is buffing Bloodletters MW makes Khorne competitive, understand they they buffed themselves up until Wrath and Rapture too. The lists you posted only show this aswell. It's objectively incorrect to state the Bloodletter Bomb died with 2.0. It died with Wrath and Rapture. To come back on your own lists:

1. Daniel.Ford ran 90 Bloodletters.
2. Daniel.Ford again show how great Bloodletters where.
3. The great David Fields certainly did something epic with Council of Blood, though keep in mind here that what gave him first place was the great painted and modeled army. If I recall correctly what won on points was Legions of Nagash.
4. I can't find Vincent Chain. Darren Watson actually went for the Blood Tithe approach, though didn't see any amazing results.
5. Daniel "Lord Doyle" actually runs 30 Bloodletters,.

Long story short, the consistent succesful Khorne lists have been running Bloodletters. They have done so with the buffs, be it their own 5+ MW or going to 4+ with Frenzy stacked.

In general: Games Workshop didn't need to do this. We don't need a 2008 WBF repeat where the newest army's are also the best. This is what killed Warhammer Fantasy Battles in the first place. Which is why I don't understand why Games Workshop chooses it to do this again.  

[Killax]

On 12/21/2018 at 12:07 PM, angrywicket said:

Hi, I'm running a mortal khorne army and am thinking about adding a brass despoiler batallion (warherd only). Anyone have suggestions for buffs/characters to add that can impact the beastmen?

So far I've got the bloodsecrator and slaughterpriest.

I wouldn't do it, feel free to paint them up as Khornate as you wish, but Brass Despoiler Battalion really thakes away a better Allegiance Ability and synergy with the whole army for no clear reason.

Bloodsecrator, Slaughterpriest and Bloodstoker are pretty much the only reasons left to perhaps consider Khorne. But you are really in a better position now with playing Beasts of Chaos and sticking to their allegiance and such, even with spells. 

20 hours ago, Silchas_Ruin said:

I .was wondering if this list could work:

2x10 Blood Warrriors with Bronzed Flesh and backed up with Skullreapers and Wrathmongers against hordes. 

2 big and fast monsters with artifacts for those battleplans.

Wrathmongers and Deamon Prince with Sword of Judgement against monster list.

3 Slaughterpriest with rerolls for mortal wounds or pulling of objectives.

Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster maybe with Doppelganger Cloak instead so I can trow it forward, most games only really get a use out of it a couple of times anyway, so not sure nerf makes me drop it.

Looks cool to me, it's just that in general facing any higher armoured army now is going to be a problem. Bronzed Flesh is fun but turtling up doesn't jam well with our army. The big monsters are still there but I'd also say they are the prime targets for your opponent. 

Give it a try, feel free to give some feedback on how you feel about it  

15 hours ago, TheHiddenWaffle said:

So as a pretty noob khorne player how do I cut down my best friends seraphon army now that I can't just buff a murder ball to ignore his 2+ re-rollable saves that ignore rend of 1?

Well you really don't at a competitive level, the consistency to rely on Bloodletters/Moral Wounds is gone, which was the last grip to be sort of Tier 1.5/2.

What you could consider is stacking up on Skullreapers and hope some make it to the enemy.

 

[Infernalslayer]

I am a very slow painter as i enjoy the models but not painting and still haven't painted a majority of khorne units from 2016. By the time i manage to paint a whole army to finally use it happily at the table, GW has hammered it to the ground or the newest shiny stuff just outclasses it.

 Games Workshop's approach has kept me from playing at any tournaments and i only play kitchen table games  at home now. 

If that was one of the reasons that WFB died, i can see why 

[Dickbill]

I have 70 bloodreavers, 20 blood warriors, and a MLOK to go for this list but they are all primed and ready for some paint, what do y'all think of this list? My MLOK is a Magore and Riptooth conversion, hence the name

 

[Uveron]

I just want to say this. 

There is more to AOS that comp play. 

And outside of Comp Play Blades of Khorne remain in my book one of the best armys for fun games. 

They are for better or worse, much like the Orks in 40k. (though with new codex for first time in long time thats not quite true, anyway)

[Killax]

Cool horde Dickbill! Go for it. I do think you might want to sneak in a Chaos Shrine in somehow.. Though I'd agree that Wrathmongers can do this too. 

An alternative would be to:
- Change Khorne Lord for Khorne Lord on Juggernaut 120/140
- Change 10 Blood Warriors for Chaos Warshrine 200/160

Just now, Uveron said:

They are for better or worse, much like the Orks in 40k. (though with new codex for first time in long time thats not quite true, anyway)

This is my issue with it, GW has shown they do understand how to design armies with similar power levels, Khorne was on that place.
Then for better or worse there are some within that design team who stop looking at army context and just throw out stuff.

My annoyance isn't that they now do it once, it's a constant repeat with Khorne. If people want to know the actual full list of 'GW doesn't know what they are doing with Khorne' I'm fully willing to elaborate that in a larger post.

Cheers,

Edited December 22, 2018 by Killax

[phizzco]

Yeah i think im going to stay away from competition .

[Dickbill]

9 hours ago, Killax said:

- Change 10 Blood Warriors for Chaos Warshrine 200/160

I agree 100% on the Warshrine and want one in a bad way, my problem is I got too much on my painting plate right now.

[Sigmarusvult]

AOS is a young  game and it still needs adjustment but gw are aware of this, we got a V2 afterall.

However, from my short game experience, I feel that for most armies it will always makes much more sense to take a few specific units over most of the range. For exemple, evocators will always be a better choice than any other type of paladin, but because of it most SC lists look similar. It is even more obvious with Khorne's bataillions and now it gets even more  limited with the recent changes. 

It seems to me that most lists are built around a few spammed units  and/or a limited list of  bataillons thus making games predictable and repetitive. Unfortunately, if you try sth out of the box,  you will get penalised in game.

Overall l have a growing impression that AOS is slowly turning into a clone list game, which is shame because  of the amazing range they possess. Nonetheless I find that the latest beast of chaos has managed to avoid that trap so far, maybe we can except the same for the future releases ? 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Sigmarusvult

[phizzco]

For now im just enjoying painting

[Praecautus]

Hey Khorne dogs. I need some advice - should I buy wrath and rapture?

I mainly run a mortal army based around gorepilgrims and summon in what I need. In terms of daemons for summoning I have the following 10 blood letters, 1 wrath of khorne thirster, skull cannon and heard on foot. Plus a prince, I know can't be summoned.

I don't play in tournaments but likewise want to give my opponents a good game with an army that doesn't fold instantly. The gore pilgrims lists I use tend to meet that requirement. I have noticed I tend to have more tithe than models to summon.

I was initially quite excited by wrath and rapture, but the rules and points changes are making me rethInk. It seems 20 letters would be a more worthwhile investment for now, then hounds when released singly.

[Retro]

6 hours ago, Praecautus said:

Hey Khorne dogs. I need some advice - should I buy wrath and rapture?

I mainly run a mortal army based around gorepilgrims and summon in what I need. In terms of daemons for summoning I have the following 10 blood letters, 1 wrath of khorne thirster, skull cannon and heard on foot. Plus a prince, I know can't be summoned.

I don't play in tournaments but likewise want to give my opponents a good game with an army that doesn't fold instantly. The gore pilgrims lists I use tend to meet that requirement. I have noticed I tend to have more tithe than models to summon.

I was initially quite excited by wrath and rapture, but the rules and points changes are making me rethInk. It seems 20 letters would be a more worthwhile investment for now, then hounds when released singly.

Personally, I'm buying 2 boxes. Some stuff might be overcosted points-wise but I'm planning to start a 40k daemons army anyway and ghb19 could completely change the internal balance.

For me it's more about getting a good deal on my plastic crack 😁

[phizzco]

14 hours ago, Praecautus said:

Hey Khorne dogs. I need some advice - should I buy wrath and rapture?

I mainly run a mortal army based around gorepilgrims and summon in what I need. In terms of daemons for summoning I have the following 10 blood letters, 1 wrath of khorne thirster, skull cannon and heard on foot. Plus a prince, I know can't be summoned.

I don't play in tournaments but likewise want to give my opponents a good game with an army that doesn't fold instantly. The gore pilgrims lists I use tend to meet that requirement. I have noticed I tend to have more tithe than models to summon.

I was initially quite excited by wrath and rapture, but the rules and points changes are making me rethInk. It seems 20 letters would be a more worthwhile investment for now, then hounds when released singly.

I just bought hounds and karanak on Ebay.  I spent 50 dollars

[Heroflegend21]

So it's been awhile since I've browsed this chat and I've had a few questions for the khorne community. First off are we not able to run Goreglaives in units if 5 man squads? And for tournaments be it 1k or 2k are people trying to abuse summoning or are we still looking at battalions? Thanks and happy holidays!

[Rick_AoS]

Anyone know the points cost of the new Khorne battalion from W&R? 

 

[Coyote]

Azur says the Boundless Hunt is ... 130 pts

[Revan123]

On 12/23/2018 at 2:15 AM, Sigmarusvult said:

AOS is a young  game and it still needs adjustment but gw are aware of this, we got a V2 afterall.

However, from my short game experience, I feel that for most armies it will always makes much more sense to take a few specific units over most of the range. For exemple, evocators will always be a better choice than any other type of paladin, but because of it most SC lists look similar. It is even more obvious with Khorne's bataillions and now it gets even more  limited with the recent changes. 

It seems to me that most lists are built around a few spammed units  and/or a limited list of  bataillons thus making games predictable and repetitive. Unfortunately, if you try sth out of the box,  you will get penalised in game.

Overall l have a growing impression that AOS is slowly turning into a clone list game, which is shame because  of the amazing range they possess. Nonetheless I find that the latest beast of chaos has managed to avoid that trap so far, maybe we can except the same for the future releases ? 

40к is not so young, but have the same problems. All Eldar and Guard are gods of war, while others struggle badly to be competative. And the problem is, that vanilla Eldar nad Guard codes allow you to go from one army building to another and still be competative. And access to soup list makes them even better. All that saving Chaos now in 40k is soup lists and that is it. And that is where they get repetative and spammy. 

Space marines don't have any choice aside from bringing Guilliman. For Tau 3 riptades is a must. Necron probably had two litst, now I think only one. And new Ork's codex, by the way, gives them a lot of variety. As well as tyranid's one, especially with genestealers. 

In AOS we can't get good soup armies, because we don't have the mechanic to take separate alligence.  And now we either don't have good units to support great alligience (tzeench) or struggle with bad alligence bonuses (khorne). Nurgle in the middle of things in everything, but that is why he still be competative at some level, solid mid tier, nothing more, but suffers badly from Death or Stormcast.

 

[Rick_AoS]

1 hour ago, Coyote said:

Azur says the Boundless Hunt is ... 130 pts

Thanks.

[Roark]

7 hours ago, Heroflegend21 said:

So it's been awhile since I've browsed this chat and I've had a few questions for the khorne community. First off are we not able to run Goreglaives in units if 5 man squads? And for tournaments be it 1k or 2k are people trying to abuse summoning or are we still looking at battalions? Thanks and happy holidays!

1. You only get a Goreglaive in units of 10 or more. 1 per 10 lads.

2. I don't tend to see any fully tooled summoning lists these days, but I've seen a Blood Sacrifice here and there on a Priest or Shrine or both (in Gore Pilgrims, ergo 4 Blessings). Lots of min unit Reavers though, and full complement of characters (as always). Skarr pops up a bit. I've noticed a few peeps saying they're pretty satisfied with the churn of Tithe and summoning just through normal play. I reckon I am.