Warhammer+ discussion

[Lowki]

Created this topic to offload the rumour thread, and continue the discussion about Pro's and Con's of the recently announced Warhammer+ subscription

 

My opinion:

 

Isn't it a bit early to jump into conclussions yet?

Based on what we know so far, I have mixed feelings myself. Not interested in the animations and most of the video stuff. At least not to the extend that I want to pay for it. With the exception of the painting masterclass maybe (if any good), but not enough for me to pay $6 a month for. Same for the exclusive mini's. 

So I guess everything stand or falls with the quality of the app. If it is any good, I am on board. If we take the 40k as an example...well I have no experience myself, but what I get from the reactions here, most people are not happy with it. it might be a big disapointment. Same for the likely removal of the digital publications. For now, I just have my fingers crossed for an improved version of the current AOS app (which I like), no reason to expect the worse right now.

We cannot be sure if the current app and i.e. warscroll builder will co-exist, but even if they do, support and updates will probably become even worse.

What I would really like is that we would have a monthly subscription for  rules and points. I would definately willing to pay for that. It would add so much more flexibility and possibilities for little adjustments for game ballancing, without the need of a reprint with any new model release. And there still would be room for hard copies with art and more background..no doubt there is still a big audiance for that. But I don't think there are any indications that GW is willing to take that path, unfortunately.

 

 

Edit...I added a little poll on top of this thread

Edited June 24, 2021 by Lowki

[Chikout]

Here's my thoughts.

The digital lore vault is great, and almost worth the price for me by itself. I hope they add the really old white dwarfs. 

The minis are great. I'm glad the are resculpts of existing minis. I hope they continue to do that. It gives an obvious perk but reduces Fomo.  I also hope they ship to Japan. 

The painting video could be great especially if they copy the style of Darren Latham's videos, but those were free so...

The battle report video could be great if they invest in the technology. Multiple cameras, good quality graphics, well edited to make it snappy etc. 

The lore videos sound  good and will probably give YouTubers more to work with not less. I hope Wade is well enough to continue. He's a good interviewer who asks appropriate questions and then let's the other person speak. I love Rob (most of the time) but I couldn't watch his interviews. He interrupted way too much. 

The app is a big concern. If they keep digital battletomes but give a good list building tool, I'll be relieved. Taking away digital battletomes would be a very very bad idea. 

The animation is fine but probably the least important part for me. 

The pricing is good, I just hope I can access it all from Japan. 

[King Under the Mountain]

Still trying to find something that justifies the cost for me personally.  I dont care about 40k at all, game wise and setting wise. So that's arguably 60% of the service that does nothing for me.  

 

Painting tutorials, lore videos and battle reports are all over YouTube.  They would need to do something fundamentally different with high production value to really sell those shows.

 

Finally the "no digital books" fiasco really rubs me the wrong way.  Honestly I'm a collector at heart so I usually buy the physical copies but I 100% understand the want (and need) for digital only.  Other companies have been doing this for years.

 

Honestly I remember years ago GW was so reluctant to do things digital, I was surprised when I came back and they had a great AoS app with eBooks and list building functionality.  Now I think they are seeing other content creators make money off of their IP (which is something they have always hated) and are now over correcting.

 

[Still-young]

It’s fairly easy for me. If I get a year subscription in one go, it’s £2 a year more than I pay for white dwarf. About half the price is covered by a model which although I probably wouldn’t buy either of, both are cool enough that I feel it’s worth it. And the other half is stuff that I think I will get more out of than I do White Dwarf. So I’ll probably cancel WD and do a year of this, and then see if it was worth it after the year before resubscribing. 
 

edit: it’s actually the same price as my WD sub, I pay £12.50 a quarter, I thought it was £12. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Still-young

[Perturbato]

you can sell the mini after a year to refund the sub

[Malakithe]

As someone that plays both systems I begrudgingly might look into it...the price is low enough that its tempting. At first I thought it was going to ty to be another Netflix but theres much more then that.

Heres to hoping the done f- over the current AoS app. They should have just copied the AoS app for the 40k one. And why oh why do they need to make another AoS companion app? The current one is great 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

The big question right now seems to be whether or not Warhammer+ will include digital battletomes. For me, the service stands or falls with this. I have mentioned previously that I would be willing to pay for a subscription service that just gives you access to all the rules content from all battletomes (not even the art and lore). If Warhammer+ will allow me to just have access to all rules, all the time without having to go to "summary" websites, I'm prepared to put my money where my mouth is.

In that case, Warhammer+ would be a very good deal for me. If I could get access to all rules, plus some other stuff that I am maybe tangentially interested in for 50$ a year, I'll take it. Otherwise, though...

• Warhammer animation: Don't really care, especially if it's all 40k.
• Hobby shows: There are already lots of good hobby shows I can watch for free on youtube. And they are probably better because they are not obligated to stick with Citadel painting products and GW models or the GW style of painting.
• Old publications and White Dwarf issues: Would be a fun little bonus, but not a reason to subscribe to a service for me.
• Premium apps: I currently don't even use Azyr that much, just Warscroll Builder and AoS reminders. So the apps would have some work to do to win me over.
• Premium access: Don't care and it's extremely doubtful that I will ever make use of this.
• Exclusive subscriber offers: A chance to buy more stuff? OH BOY!
• Miniatures: Don't really care about Ironjawz or anything 40k, so it's only a marginal value add.

 

[Enoby]

I'm on the fence; 40k animations do absolutely nothing for me, and the animations seem to be a big part of the service. Even AoS animations, on their own, may not be interesting to me if they don't involve a faction I'm interested in (but I'd be willing to give them a go). 

On the other things, I'm most curious about the vault and the app. Though much more nervous about the app - I've only heard bad things about 40k's app, and I'd dislike it if AoS went the same way. If the battle reports are varied and equally split between 40k and AoS, I'd appreciate that.

Definitely not a service I'll buy into straight away, but I'd be willing to look into it depending on the details and quality of the service once it's been tested a few times.

Also, like others, I hope digital battletomes remain - I much prefer a digital GHB as it's considerably easier to carry about. 

[Lowki]

59 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The big question right now seems to be whether or not Warhammer+ will include digital battletomes. For me, the service stands or falls with this. I have mentioned previously that I would be willing to pay for a subscription service that just gives you access to all the rules content from all battletomes (not even the art and lore). If Warhammer+ will allow me to just have access to all rules, all the time without having to go to "summary" websites, I'm prepared to put my money where my mouth is.

 

 

Yeah well, thats what I hope for as well, but for $6 a month...doubt it will be the case

[Aeryenn]

I'm going to try it.

The price is attractive (it might be even better if we get specific prices for other regions than UK/US). Good move with the free mini. I wouldn't buy any of these two alone since I don't collect wh40k or Ironjawz but as a freebie it's great.

White dwarf collection - great.

Painting tutorials... I'm already long enought in the hobby I probably won't watch it.

Battle reports. Maybe, just maybe. I don't have this much time for a mediocre content.

Loremaster - why not if it's interesting

And most important - animations. My biggest concern is that they will feature 2h worth of content at launch and slowly expand month by month. Which may take a while before the librabry is big enough to hold me for longer.
Overall I'm pleased with the offer.

[Chikout]

Here's what they should do. Starting with issue 1, they should add 1 issue of white dwarf a week. That's at least 11 years of content right there. I would subscribe just for that. I'm surprised they didn't add audiobooks. One audio book a week would also give them hundreds of weeks of content at no cost to them. They did deeply discounted audiobooks during lockdown so they could easily do it again without taking books off Audible. 

[mojojojo101]

Animations - probably the thing I'm most interested in because binge watching stuff I'm only half interested in is my other most time consuming hobby.

Battle Reports and Painting Guides - can't really see what they have to offer over what YouTube already provides, and since watching Season of War's videos, full, uncut battle reports are just a real slog to watch for me.

Loremaster, old White Dwarfs - cool, not worth subscribing for.

The special models - Neither are spectacular and as I don't play 40k or IJ, are largely useless to me. Also, that you have to stay sub'd for  whole year before they send them out is a ludicrously inelegant way to do this. Just offer different types of sub 1/3/6/12 months with discount for longer duration. If you get a 12 month sub, you get the model immediately. I don't know why anyone would wait 12 months for those models.

Hoping GW stays committed to warscrolls and Warscroll Builder being free. I don't see why we need a new app, the current one works fine.

 

Now for a HOT TAKE: Warhammer+ is too cheap.

At the price point they are offering, as far as I can tell, they are just not going to be able to offer the level of content I was looking for. Up the price and include new White Dwarf issues. Up it a little further and free access to battletomes and codexes starts looking like it might be an option. I just don't think, at this price point, they can put enough on the table for me to be really interested long term.

[Nos]

My opinion, in a nutshell:

In general, Independent streams arent going to be able to continue to profit without megacorps taking a bigger share. I dont just mean GW, I mean all monolothic capitalist entities will find a way, just as they did with social media, to take far greater control of the platforms which currently enable profit for individual creatives.

Initially it will start like this- companies will just use their greater resources to push out competitors, quite possibly at a loss, by offerings few unique things and cheap imitations of everything else that's popular.

But in 5 years time they will dictate the shape of how and where and why anybody delivers content about their product to an unprecedented degree.

I guarantee you in 5 more years that most of GW's online audience will be paying for WH+ and that engaging within the hobby without a subscription will be, by design, much harder

Not saying that WH+ itself is going to force independent channels and streamers to take a reduced role. It will take some time. 

But its inception is just 1 act of thousands that marks a further shift in capitalism away from individual autonomy on the net. It's not a cause of it, its evidence of something already happening. Its going to happen everywhere.

Obviously nobody can predict the future, but pretty much any other view than this is working on the assumption that the most powerful economic and technological  forces in the world are going to change direction suddenly, which is unlikely, or accept limitations, which is something that has literally never happened.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Nos

[Bayul]

1 hour ago, Perturbato said:

you can sell the mini after a year to refund the sub

I doubt it. Ebay will be flodded with those minis in September 2022. I can't imagine we'll break even and I'd choose the WH40K model for more "profit".

I am enthusiastic about Warhammer+ and don't mind to spend the yearly fee, but I am dreading the release of the new AOS app. Best case scenario is if it will be a broken mess for just a few weeks.

[Bayul]

Oh and prepare for the lazy Warhammer+ plus symbol to be EVERYWHERE from now on.

I want an exclusive + button to wear in my local Warhammer store though to demonstrate my financial superiority to non-subscribed rabble.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Bayul

[Greybeard86]

I would be extremely surprised if W+ offered digital rules. They charge far more for them on a book by book basis.

Thus, W+ is a hard pass for me. It seems that it will be advertisement we are supposed to pay for, which is what white dwarf has turned into anyway.

 

[MitGas]

I really like Louise's painting style (cool Tzeentch stuff, very different to my own painting style but well - that's where you can learn something new). Hope to see Darren on it as well and ideally we'd get some "behind the scenes" with the 3d modellers and showing us more about the process. A hobby of mine used to be texturing 3d models back when you actually had to paint skins as the models were low-poly stuff but I find the whole digital sculpting (and printing) scene absolutely fascinating. I really lament that I was a skinner, instead of a modeler back then. 😂 

Also a TV show by the Astartes guy sounds very cool, not gonna lie - I loved the dark tone of it. I don't think they'll have enough good content to make it worth it at first but I'll probably bite, simply because this whole thing could backfire and if they ever needed support, it's with this as a fiasco will have strong repercussions for the company. Kinda like starting selling your stuff in a new region and then they don't sell. Instantly reduces the worth of your company.

[Enoby]

So by the look of it, there will be a new AoS app that won't be ready on launch... 

I'm hoping it'll be good, but after the 40k app, I'm very hesitant. 

[ian0delond]

I am probably going to pay for one month at some point. Probably not a year.
The pricing is not as bad as I feared from GW. As a bundle the offer if regularly updated is probably good value. Kinda useless to speculate and whine about the app itself quality before it is released.

Including Aos and 40k subscription should have been announced day one. Actually going to be the feature why people subscribe without immediately resigning.

The free models are a nice touch. They are a good reason to get a subscription day one even so it is the time when there is going to the less content for your money. I don't care about assassins and Orruk, but maybe in a future year there is going to be a model that will make me want to subscribe yearly.

No need to talk about the animation.

I think the painting tutorials are a nice bonus honestly. Louise knows how to make a model pop. Games Workshop is already the standard for the painting tutorial format, they can make something much clearer than one guy with a fixed camera losing focus every 30 seconds. It was long due they make contents for not complete beginners. And there is not that much "advanced" tutorial without "and now take your airbrush". Never subscribed to Duncan Patreon, because I am not that interested in painting tutorials, but it is a nice part of a bundle.

The vault is also fun. No need to go digging in dubious websites to find a scanned pdf from an outdated edition.

The event part is kinda useless to me, I've never been to something bigger to a store anniversary to buy a model.

Loremaster is meh. Their podcasts about why you should buy a faction are never good. But that's probably the cheap and easy ad content to produce so they just do it.

[stratigo]

4 hours ago, Chikout said:

Here's my thoughts.

The digital lore vault is great, and almost worth the price for me by itself. I hope they add the really old white dwarfs. 

The minis are great. I'm glad the are resculpts of existing minis. I hope they continue to do that. It gives an obvious perk but reduces Fomo.  I also hope they ship to Japan. 

The painting video could be great especially if they copy the style of Darren Latham's videos, but those were free so...

The battle report video could be great if they invest in the technology. Multiple cameras, good quality graphics, well edited to make it snappy etc. 

The lore videos sound  good and will probably give YouTubers more to work with not less. I hope Wade is well enough to continue. He's a good interviewer who asks appropriate questions and then let's the other person speak. I love Rob (most of the time) but I couldn't watch his interviews. He interrupted way too much. 

The app is a big concern. If they keep digital battletomes but give a good list building tool, I'll be relieved. Taking away digital battletomes would be a very very bad idea. 

The animation is fine but probably the least important part for me. 

The pricing is good, I just hope I can access it all from Japan. 

what they're doing with codexes, and likely battletomes, is trying to double dip. They have the ability to be put into the app (Though it's super janky cause the 40k app is a mess), but you have to buy a physical copy and like input a code or some such utter nonsense. So to have a digital version of the book (that is currently, like, strictly worse than a pdf or even epub), you have to buy the physical copy and the app. Now they try to pretend paying for the app isn't required, but without that sub, the way the 40k app is structured, you get quite limited functionality with your purchase.

[stratigo]

2 hours ago, mojojojo101 said:

Animations - probably the thing I'm most interested in because binge watching stuff I'm only half interested in is my other most time consuming hobby.

Battle Reports and Painting Guides - can't really see what they have to offer over what YouTube already provides, and since watching Season of War's videos, full, uncut battle reports are just a real slog to watch for me.

Loremaster, old White Dwarfs - cool, not worth subscribing for.

The special models - Neither are spectacular and as I don't play 40k or IJ, are largely useless to me. Also, that you have to stay sub'd for  whole year before they send them out is a ludicrously inelegant way to do this. Just offer different types of sub 1/3/6/12 months with discount for longer duration. If you get a 12 month sub, you get the model immediately. I don't know why anyone would wait 12 months for those models.

Hoping GW stays committed to warscrolls and Warscroll Builder being free. I don't see why we need a new app, the current one works fine.

 

Now for a HOT TAKE: Warhammer+ is too cheap.

At the price point they are offering, as far as I can tell, they are just not going to be able to offer the level of content I was looking for. Up the price and include new White Dwarf issues. Up it a little further and free access to battletomes and codexes starts looking like it might be an option. I just don't think, at this price point, they can put enough on the table for me to be really interested long term.

You're just in too deep to realize that GW over charges for almost all of its services. 

 

Especially for its rules. GW hella overcharges for its rules

[Televiper11]

They announced the new app will be behind the WH+ paywall. That’s a disappointing development. I want to use the app but don’t want WH+.

[RuneBrush]

My own view here 😊

I was originally fairly on the fence about this.  I already have Netflix and Disney+, so yet another streaming service didn't really appeal initially, especially as the animations seem to be pretty short in duration.  That was combined with very little information on how it was being distributed, being completely honest I'm a grown up with my own house, I own a decent sized TV for watching shows.  I'm also not a fan of the plethora of subscription services that currently exist - especially ones where you lose access to content if you stop subscribing.

I've revised my opinion to "I'll probably give it a punt for a year".  I've put my feelings on each of the items in a bulleted list as I felt it was the easiest to digest:

• 👍 Content wise, there's actually quite a lot going on
• 👍 The Vault seems like quite a neat way to get access to things that I missed at the time such as the original Realm Wars books
• 🤷‍♂️ WD interests me less as I've got every issue from the early 90's onwards, however it could be a good way to extract certain articles out to make them easier to access
• 👍 Higher level painting does interest me, I think there's been a lack of "start to finish" miniature painting like we originally had with AoS 1 and for centrepiece models like Nagash & Archeon.  Louise is a great presenter for this type of thing too - a very precise painter who I know has had various painting sessions with the 'Eavy Metal guys
• 🤷‍♂️ Battle reports I'm going to reserve judgement on.  There have been so many different formats over the years and being harsh, watching people roll dice for 3 hours isn't much more exciting than watching a washing machine.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed we see a really smart professional format
• 🤞 Loremasters could be really good!  Having access to the GW archives and various staff will give a much more comprehensive background on things than a double page spread in a book.  I hoping that we may have Black Library authors contributing to these shows too
• 🤞 GW getting external people in to assist with the animation distribution - as I said above content like this needs to be accessible on smart TV.  I'm hoping that all video content will go through the same means too
• 🤷‍♂️ Automatic sub to the AoS & 40k apps.  This makes sense but I think a lot more development needs to be made long term (including a tablet mode)
• 👍 Exclusive miniatures - was expecting to have to buy any exclusive models.  Both have a resellability value, but the do also appeal to me as a painter.  Bit weird you have to wait a whole year if you pay for the sub up front
• 🤞 VIP bits at events.  This intrigues me and as somebody who attends OpenDays (or at least when the world was a safer place) I wonder what type of thing we could be looking at being included

The price point I actually think is pretty good - in fact it's really good.  If you take £20 (and that's being pessimistic) for the free model, you're only looking at £30 for a year - I've spent more than that on a box of models that's sat on the shelf gathering dust...

My view on the length of the animations hasn't changed - most Netflix & Disney+ animations are 25 ~ 30 minutes long and series tend to be 12~20 odd episodes.  10 ~ 15 minute episodes barely give you time to warm your seat.  That said, for me the animations currently aren't a major drive to subscribe to Warhammer+ - I'll likely still watch them (not going to cost me extra) but they no longer feel like the biggest benefit

One concern I do have is how much new content we're going to see being added each year going forward.  It's a huge commitment/gamble on GW's part.  I also think we're still missing some key pieces of information - exactly how do we gain access to this content, what funky stuff are we likely to get from our VIP status etc

Usual disclaimer - this is only my own feeling based on what we've seen so far.

[chord]

I'm on the fence about continuing with AOS or leaving.  I Want to stay I enjoy it.  But if the App is put behind the subscription that is a big minus to me

[Chikout]

11 minutes ago, stratigo said:

what they're doing with codexes, and likely battletomes, is trying to double dip. They have the ability to be put into the app (Though it's super janky cause the 40k app is a mess), but you have to buy a physical copy and like input a code or some such utter nonsense. So to have a digital version of the book (that is currently, like, strictly worse than a pdf or even epub), you have to buy the physical copy and the app. Now they try to pretend paying for the app isn't required, but without that sub, the way the 40k app is structured, you get quite limited functionality with your purchase.

The 40k situation is worse than that. Now if you buy the physical version you get a code which unlocks the rules in the app but only the rules and only in the rather ugly format that the app uses. There is absolutely no way to access the lore or the art digitally. I like to take my iPad with me and read the lore on my lunch break but if they copy the 40k app that won't be possible. That's the big worry.