Age of Sigmar Army Popularity Survey (Results)

[Vasshpit]

1 minute ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

I've seen a number of surveys like this where Fyreslayers score extremely poorly. This may be controversial but I think the best solution here is not to give them more models. You don't sink money into a loser. They should, at best, merge them into a combined Duardin book. It isn't just the number of options that causes them to score low. It is the visual design. There are other low kit armies that score much better in appeal and use.

I 99% promise you this, if they release new female models with equal amounts of Duardin flesh, peeps would purchase. ...

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

seen a number of surveys like this where Fyreslayers score extremely

Well I’d actually hate seeing another new fyreslayer unit that looks exactly the same as every other dwarf unit in the army, just with a different weapon option.

At this point, having a combined allegiacne between the fyreslayers and dispossesseds would be probably the best choice, considering that gw would be able to produce something else then only naked dwarfs that look alike.

It would also give the dwarf players in total a lot more variety, which could male both factions pretty popular.

Have the Dispossesseds be the anvil of the army, and the fyreslayers basically the monster tamer and damage dealers

Edited February 16, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[mojojojo101]

I think the best way would be to pull an Orruk Warclans with Duardin. Include Fyrselayers as the Grimnir allegiance (largely playable as they are now, for those that want to do that), A refresh of Dispossessed as Grungni allegiance with whatever new stuff entails and then a Brothers United allegiance where you can mix the two.

 

[Feii]

2 hours ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

I've seen a number of surveys like this where Fyreslayers score extremely poorly. This may be controversial but I think the best solution here is not to give them more models. You don't sink money into a loser. They should, at best, merge them into a combined Duardin book. It isn't just the number of options that causes them to score low. It is the visual design. There are other low kit armies that score much better in appeal and use.

I fully support this - and it can be done in a very loreful fluffy fashion when you can have 1 book of 2 armies one half for grugni the second half for grimnir. 


Grugni has been teased like 2-3 times recently. 

[Saxon]

4 hours ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

I've seen a number of surveys like this where Fyreslayers score extremely poorly. This may be controversial but I think the best solution here is not to give them more models. You don't sink money into a loser. They should, at best, merge them into a combined Duardin book. It isn't just the number of options that causes them to score low. It is the visual design. There are other low kit armies that score much better in appeal and use.

It is strange to have dwarves and dwarves. The magma themed Fyreslayers are cool and i love their models but theres just no variety. I planned to start them after my sylvaneth but just couldn't bring myself to do it. I'd be keen to have a go if their range was filled out a bit more.

[Duke Eligos]

4 hours ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

I've seen a number of surveys like this where Fyreslayers score extremely poorly. This may be controversial but I think the best solution here is not to give them more models. You don't sink money into a loser. They should, at best, merge them into a combined Duardin book. It isn't just the number of options that causes them to score low. It is the visual design. There are other low kit armies that score much better in appeal and use.

I don't like people talking about a combined Duardin book, mainly because it implies combining the Kharadron with other factions.

I know that most people mean Dispossessed + Fyreslayers when they talk about that possibility (even more plausible considering the unification teases all came from the Fyreslayer Bt and weren't included in the latest KO Bt), but it's always annoying to not take the time to mention it.

I'm not surprised at all by the placement of the Kharadron, they always seem to rank 4th or higher in popularity/favorite faction. What's impressive is that they managed to create such a considerable following without getting that much model support. The mere ingenuity of their concept and their top quality lore and models seem to be more than enough.

 

My biggest surprise is SoB, that army is still very recent so they should be way higher than that.

Hedonites, DoK and LRL do benefit from current hype to some extent. LRL is nonetheless a popular army, notably because they managed to grab High Elves fans.

Hedonites' placement seems very bad considering the huge model release and attention they are getting. 

I also think that the survey was too vague and it makes the data's insight limited. 

[Joseph Mackay]

Fyreslayers have a few points against them: only 2 non-hero kits that look very similar. High prices, at time of release they were more expensive than any other army and armies released after them got cheaper pricing, the Start Collecting box helped with the heroes but really nothing changed. Originally they were a horde army where you needed 90~ of them plus heroes, combined with the price factor I think it put a lot of people off, when they changed to no longer be as much of a horde I think it was too little too late and the damage was already done, the faction is tainted by what they used to be. The book + terrain + spells only release I think jaded a lot of people too, they needed new units but instead got one of the lazy book only releases of aos2, considering what the book was I think we should have gotten a combined Duardin book instead (including Kharadron).

Sons Of Behemat were 100% killed by the pricing. Here in nz they’re $380, Archaon is $330, if they’d even been at that price instead they’d have been more popular. Removing the single Gargant so you have to buy 2 now was a bit of a cash grab and a ****** move as well because if you wanted to run the 3+3 then you’ve paid for an extra Gargant you don’t necessarily want, plus it screws with the Gloomspite players who may want a Gargant 

[Doko]

As dispossessed player and fyreslayer player im 100% with the idea of a combined duardin book.

This would give me the chance of star to collecting kharadrons also.

A great idea that could save fyreslayers and dispossesed while is a 0 effort of gw because dont have to do new kits,only a book.

 

I would like that the book would have the back of umgrin together  a dual box of old dwarfs in clasic armor but being slayers(as umgrin a slayer but at the same time a full armor dwarf),so this could be the halfway of the two factions

[LuminethMage]

I'm just posting the results from Vince's Warhammer Weekly surveys one more time. Had around the same responses, but asked for armies played. The blue one is from mid-last year, when the LRL weren't fully released yet, and the other one is just from a few weeks ago. The blue one only allowed for responding with one faction, the green one allowed for multiple choices. 

There are quite some differences which could be fun to speculate about, although I don't think we have enough data yet. But there could be a big discrepancy for some armies that are well liked, but still not being played that much (pricing could be an issue, difficulty of painting them etc.). Or there could be none, because most people equate "like" with "play". 

[Bosskelot]

11 hours ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

I've seen a number of surveys like this where Fyreslayers score extremely poorly. This may be controversial but I think the best solution here is not to give them more models. You don't sink money into a loser. They should, at best, merge them into a combined Duardin book. It isn't just the number of options that causes them to score low. It is the visual design. There are other low kit armies that score much better in appeal and use.

As I've said before, Fyreslayers are one of the biggest bombs in terms of releases GW have ever made. If you could physically go into a GW store or LGS right now (thanks covid) you'd see boxes of them on the shelves from the original release that haven't moved.

GW doesn't like to sink resources into poorly selling ranges. Sometimes they misunderstand why this is the case, like with Sisters of Battle, and when they do provide support they're pleasantly surprised because there was a large potential audience waiting in the wings. However, more often than not, if a new model range doesn't meet expectations any further planned releases are shelved. Harlequins were going to have a 2nd wave, the first one didn't sell well enough. GSC sold just enough and had internal studio enthusiasm for a 2nd wave of models. Admech sold incredibly well and got their 2nd wave.

But that thing about potential audiences waiting in the wings? That doesn't exist for Fyreslayers. Not only is the core concept not strong enough to carry things on its own, but Dwarfs in general were never one of the most popular armies in old Fantasy. The people who like Dwarfs are very vocal about it, but unless you go really out-there and unique with the concept, like KO, trying to stretch an army of Slayers into its own faction just doesn't work. That's an issue with a lot of early AOS armies; trying to take one specific unit type from an old fantasy army and making an entire range from it. Turns out, it doesn't work too well as the poor performance of Fyreslayers and the combining of Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz or Ogors and Mournfang shows.

To get new Fyreslayer models, GW would have to do another customer/community survey again and the AOS players would have to be out in force loudly shouting for a Fyreslayers update. That's how Sisters of Battle got re-done. But I also do not see that happening for Fyreslayers either. Do you really expect all the Skaven players to think new Fyreslayer models should take precedent over their dated range? The Seraphon players? S2D still don't have an updated multipart Warriors kit and still have Marauders from 2002, no way they're going to be screaming for new naked ginger dwarfs.

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, Bosskelot said:

Not only is the core concept not strong enough to carry things on its own

I strongly disagree with that.
The concept is enough for me: Monk-like zealots with Kings/Queens riding and using all type of magma/lava-monsters (there are some fire-spiders and giants worms in soulbound appart from Magmadroths and Ancient Magmadroths) guided by priests using powered gold-runes in their own flesh that can even explote or transform you in to something worst than a crazy dwarf and all wrapped with an Spartan look? 

I mean, I'm the only one that see that and know that they can go wild in any direction following their own concept? Ogre-type units of deformed-dwarfs full of chains because something went wrong with their runes, chariots pulled by some type of magma-monsters, riding cavalry of mini-droths, a double kit of an altar of Grimnir that can be build as a suicide-warmachine carried by crazy dwarfs, valkyrian-like female dwarfs that don't follow Rune-Fathers, etc... 

The main problem for Fyreslayers was that an overcosted product of the same repeated unit for a whole army  coudn't carry the whole theme. 

[MitGas]

2 hours ago, Bosskelot said:

As I've said before, Fyreslayers are one of the biggest bombs in terms of releases GW have ever made. If you could physically go into a GW store or LGS right now (thanks covid) you'd see boxes of them on the shelves from the original release that haven't moved.

GW doesn't like to sink resources into poorly selling ranges. Sometimes they misunderstand why this is the case, like with Sisters of Battle, and when they do provide support they're pleasantly surprised because there was a large potential audience waiting in the wings. However, more often than not, if a new model range doesn't meet expectations any further planned releases are shelved. Harlequins were going to have a 2nd wave, the first one didn't sell well enough. GSC sold just enough and had internal studio enthusiasm for a 2nd wave of models. Admech sold incredibly well and got their 2nd wave.

But that thing about potential audiences waiting in the wings? That doesn't exist for Fyreslayers. Not only is the core concept not strong enough to carry things on its own, but Dwarfs in general were never one of the most popular armies in old Fantasy. The people who like Dwarfs are very vocal about it, but unless you go really out-there and unique with the concept, like KO, trying to stretch an army of Slayers into its own faction just doesn't work. That's an issue with a lot of early AOS armies; trying to take one specific unit type from an old fantasy army and making an entire range from it. Turns out, it doesn't work too well as the poor performance of Fyreslayers and the combining of Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz or Ogors and Mournfang shows.

To get new Fyreslayer models, GW would have to do another customer/community survey again and the AOS players would have to be out in force loudly shouting for a Fyreslayers update. That's how Sisters of Battle got re-done. But I also do not see that happening for Fyreslayers either. Do you really expect all the Skaven players to think new Fyreslayer models should take precedent over their dated range? The Seraphon players? S2D still don't have an updated multipart Warriors kit and still have Marauders from 2002, no way they're going to be screaming for new naked ginger dwarfs.

I don't think Ironjawz got combined with Bonesplitterz because they sold badly. They simply didn't produce enough IJ models to make it feel like a "proper" army (they could still use like 4 more kits to feel like you got more options than going 1 of 3 units) so they had to mash some totally unfitting kits in there.... Entirely GW's fault. People love Or(ru)ks.

[sandlemad]

9 hours ago, Duke Eligos said:

I don't like people talking about a combined Duardin book, mainly because it implies combining the Kharadron with other factions.

I know that most people mean Dispossessed + Fyreslayers when they talk about that possibility (even more plausible considering the unification teases all came from the Fyreslayer Bt and weren't included in the latest KO Bt), but it's always annoying to not take the time to mention it.

I'm not surprised at all by the placement of the Kharadron, they always seem to rank 4th or higher in popularity/favorite faction. What's impressive is that they managed to create such a considerable following without getting that much model support. The mere ingenuity of their concept and their top quality lore and models seem to be more than enough.

I get this, it's a sort of "don't drag me down with you" sentiment. Dispossessed are in an odd spot, Fyreslayers are increasingly obviously a huge dud in terms of concept/design/sculpts/playerbase popularity/sales/actually making an army, but Kharadron are great. They're popular, well fleshed-out, competitive, etc. 

It's sad for Fyreslayers, they have good potential even if that would entail a significant reboot. Merging them with Dispossessed could well be a step forward, though it wouldn't solve all their many problems as a faction and range. But either way that shouldn't come at the expense of a solid and well-designed faction like the Kharadon.

Edited February 17, 2021 by sandlemad

[Joseph Mackay]

2 hours ago, sandlemad said:

I get this, it's a sort of "don't drag me down with you" sentiment. Dispossessed are in an odd spot, Fyreslayers are increasingly obviously a huge dud in terms of concept/design/sculpts/playerbase popularity/sales/actually making an army, but Kharadron are great. They're popular, well fleshed-out, competitive, etc. 

It's sad for Fyreslayers, they have good potential even if that would entail a significant reboot. Merging them with Dispossessed could well be a step forward, though it wouldn't solve all their many problems as a faction and range. But either way that shouldn't come at the expense of a solid and well-designed faction like the Kharadon.

Combining Kharadron with the other Dwarf factions doesn’t have to be all doom-and-gloom. Orruk Warclans has separate allegiances for Ironjawz, Bonesplitterz and Orruk Warclans. There’s no reason why a Duardin book wouldn’t still have separate Fyreslayers, Dispossessed and Kharadron allegiances as well as the combined allegiance 

[Beliman]

28 minutes ago, Joseph Mackay said:

Combining Kharadron with the other Dwarf factions doesn’t have to be all doom-and-gloom. Orruk Warclans has separate allegiances for Ironjawz, Bonesplitterz and Orruk Warclans. There’s no reason why a Duardin book wouldn’t still have separate Fyreslayers, Dispossessed and Kharadron allegiances as well as the combined allegiance 

I hope not. I prefer a full battletome with kharadron's art, design, stories, descriptions, etc... But I could take the deal if GW mix all Aelves in one Battletome too 😜

[mojojojo101]

I'm not entirely sure why KO would need to be in a united Duardin book at all.

They are fine where they are.

I kind of think it would be cool and add to their story if other, more traditionalist Duardin, sort of looked down on them.

Edited February 17, 2021 by mojojojo101

[Overread]

The arguments to make a united Dwarf tome come from several sources

1) Those who like niche groups like the Fyreslayers who don't think that GW can or will release a big range of models for them to gain diversity. Thus thinking that they'll either always be the same models or even get removed. So being a small part of a bigger book makes them safer

2) Those who want to copy what Skaven did - having all armies in one book and rebuilding the original style of the army from the Old World. OF course KO are totally new, but it would roll them in with their more grounded cousins. The KO then being able to take as regular models in a combined dwarf army or having their own subarmy

3) Those who want to see fewer factions with the hope that it will leave GW room to add more diverse factions (new things) and also have time and resources to support all armies even if every sub-faction within a tome doesn't always get new things. 

In general I think 2.0 was the firebreak for most armies. Barring Cities of Sigmar and perhaps Legions of Nagash (since both of those were multi-armies combined into one and Cities was very much a "rescue" faction); I would not expect to see any forces make drastic changes or be removed now. At least into the mid-term; the long term is impossible to forecast. So  I think Fyreslayers are here to say as are the KO and all the rest. The question is if/when GW decides to turn to smaller forces like the Fyreslayers and give them the boost in models and diversity that I think will let them rise up.

Right now to me Fyreslayers are were Genestealer Cults were at launch - a nice idea, but an army that isn't diverse nor well rounded. Heck early GSC were mostly a few cult models and then majority Imperial Guard. Today they are a distinct force and the IG elements are more muted. It make them their own faction and its made them FAR more interesting and diverse a force to field. 

It's just a question of time and waiting it out - GW has a lot of armies in AoS that deserve/need attention and they can't do them all at once. For what its worth though 2021 is starting off really strong. Slaanesh and Lumineth are getting BIG additions this year. Daughters of Khaine got a smaller tune up; nothing world shattering, but a nice a selection of additions. We know Vampires are coming at some point and who knows what else might arise. 

[Beliman]

6 hours ago, mojojojo101 said:

I kind of think it would be cool and add to their story if other, more traditionalist Duardin, sort of looked down on them.

Maybe it's not what you are saying, but that's already happening with Barak-Thryng. They just vote against all "new" amendments and/or any new "invention". They don't even want any Charted Companies that don't follow the "old way" to do things (whatever that means...), and accept any Duardin in their Skyport and Skydocks.

And to to put more salt on the injury... they even have their own brew and they sell it like it's a Bugman's XXXXXX!!!!

Edited February 17, 2021 by Beliman

[silverstu]

4 hours ago, MitGas said:

I don't think Ironjawz got combined with Bonesplitterz because they sold badly. They simply didn't produce enough IJ models to make it feel like a "proper" army (they could still use like 4 more kits to feel like you got more options than going 1 of 3 units) so they had to mash some totally unfitting kits in there.... Entirely GW's fault. People love Or(ru)ks.

I think thats the problem with Fyreslayers as well- the early factions are designed to be small and maybe have less of an inbuilt way to expand them whereas later factions are are more setup to expand [especially like Lumineth with their temples and twin factions]. Orcs will probably get expanded in the next round if they continue with faction updates- wether that is adding to existing factions or adding more variety remains to be seen. 

KO look to me to be a successful separate faction they could continue to expand so I don't see them adding them with other dwarfs. I think its more likely we will see a new dwarf faction under Grungni which might take in other existing dwarf factions like the dispossessed. But they might well be independent and live them where they are [the way high elf forces stayed with Cities when the Lumineth arrived.] 

[Skreech Verminking]

Well I mean, Fyreslayers are basically slayers from the old worlds, who well somehow were able to tame monstrous fire lizards, and both worship the same God.

as for Ko, they certainly are different than what we consider normal for dwarfs, but considering that they are lacking in a few many units the additional prowess of their footslogging kin, would definitely be helpful for them as well.

It would also help selling dwarf a lot more, considering that a Dispossesseds player may get intimidated to add some slayers (fyreslayers) or a few gunships into their armies and it could be the same for the other Dawiplayers.

Armies would look much more interesting, no more only limited looking models that can not be differentiated by look.

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Doko]

I wish we get this tome joining everh dwarf army,but pretty for sure we wont get it.

I guess we gonna get with luck a har ganeth style city in one of those new books ,where we can play dispossesed,ironweld and 1 of 4 units be fyreslayers and that it is

[MitGas]

4 hours ago, silverstu said:

I think thats the problem with Fyreslayers as well- the early factions are designed to be small and maybe have less of an inbuilt way to expand them whereas later factions are are more setup to expand [especially like Lumineth with their temples and twin factions]. Orcs will probably get expanded in the next round if they continue with faction updates- wether that is adding to existing factions or adding more variety remains to be seen. 

KO look to me to be a successful separate faction they could continue to expand so I don't see them adding them with other dwarfs. I think its more likely we will see a new dwarf faction under Grungni which might take in other existing dwarf factions like the dispossessed. But they might well be independent and live them where they are [the way high elf forces stayed with Cities when the Lumineth arrived.] 

Absolutely, 101% agreed... all the "mini-factions" really suffer from it. Sylvaneth, FEC, DoK, IJ, KO, FS, IDK.... I really hope we'll get faction updates before we get more new factions personally. Just a kit or two could add some needed visual interest to some of those... And of course range updates for those that got little to nothing so far. Skaven, Seraphon, Cities....

 

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

I don't necessarily think Fyreslayers need to be merged with Kharadon Overlords.  However, I do think using Fyreslayers to form the foundation (model-wise) for a more comprehensive terrestrial Duardin faction could prove to be more popular.  Because as is Fyreslayers can be argued as limited in scope.  Even if the faction was to get more creature type units.  At its core, the faction is dwarven fire warriors.

Adding Fyreslayers to say an order of Duardin warrior lodges who seek the collection of Grimnir across the Mortal Realms with each lodge taking up the aspect of each realm (or any combination of Mortal Realm aspects) would greatly expand the scope of the faction.  This could be that the Fyreslayers are the most numerous as Grimnir's shards are largely found in Aqshy and as such they are still very common amongst all realms and Slayer lodges.  At the same time Duardin lodges in Shyish could be more grim and stoic with an air of death they were like a mantle typically painted in dark cool colors assocated with death.  Lodges from Ghur take on a more savage and primitive aspect that could add more of the monster hunting parts of old Slayers with a more primitive, almost Destruction like visage painted in more earthly tones.  Ulgu Slayers could be more stealth/assassin orientated painted in dark colors.  And so on and so on.

Point is, this would allow Fyreslayers (or what ever the new name would like, Duardin Slayerlords or something) to greatly expand both as a faction and a model range.  The beauty being that GW wouldn't even have to have a huge all at once release of models for it work.  They might be able to repurpose many of existing Fyreslayers as more of a core of any Mortal Realm lodge with later specific units more focused on particular realms or even realm upgrade sprues to personalize models toward the customer's preferred Realm(s).   Then GW could add model kits here and there for various Realm lodges of whatever their artist think would be cool for that group of Slayers to have in model form.

I think that idea largely maintains the overall niche of what Fyreslayers bring to Age of Sigmar, but it expands the faction to be something that provides larger lore, modeling and painting foundation to what I see as a rather narrow scope currently.  As mentioned it also greatly allows future models  beyond more fire-based dwarfs or more fire-based monsters and can even be done rather piecemeal as to not over commit if GW doesn't want to.

[Feii]

13 hours ago, Beliman said:

I strongly disagree with that.
The concept is enough for me: Monk-like zealots with Kings/Queens riding and using all type of magma/lava-monsters (there are some fire-spiders and giants worms in soulbound appart from Magmadroths and Ancient Magmadroths) guided by priests using powered gold-runes in their own flesh that can even explote or transform you in to something worst than a crazy dwarf and all wrapped with an Spartan look? 

I mean, I'm the only one that see that and know that they can go wild in any direction following their own concept? Ogre-type units of deformed-dwarfs full of chains because something went wrong with their runes, chariots pulled by some type of magma-monsters, riding cavalry of mini-droths, a double kit of an altar of Grimnir that can be build as a suicide-warmachine carried by crazy dwarfs, valkyrian-like female dwarfs that don't follow Rune-Fathers, etc... 

The main problem for Fyreslayers was that an overcosted product of the same repeated unit for a whole army  coudn't carry the whole theme. 

The thing is all those concepts would also work for human faction which would sell much better. Crazy zealots of fire that sometimes mutate and turn into hulki monsters and are used to move around warmachines, female who are independent and valkyries like being if they ascend by showing deeds in battles and embedding more runes into their bodies. Also they would have beast tamers for taming lava creatures and then riding them to the battle. 


The whole faction fantasy gets only weaker by making them dwarves and that makes it a weak concept. 

[novakai]

i feel like KO don't need to be merge with other Duradin in one battletome. i don't think 2 different separate Dwarf faction  is such a bother considering that there are 4 and maybe 5 in the future different Aelf faction that don't look like they are going to be merge together either. 

the best world would just keep the current two dwarf tomes seperate as is and just make an Ynnari rule set in CoS for the big united Duradin army.