Warhammer - The Old World

[Flippy]

2 hours ago, Tonhel said:

Edit: The magic changes will probably mean that movement affecting spells are cast in the movement phase. Fireball and etc in the shooting phase and etc... . Imo, much better.

How is that better? That basically said that magic is integral to the game so they decided to remove the magic phase in order to “liberate” spellcasting. This is corporate nonsense level. Magic is supposed to be different on mechanical level - otherwise you end with fireball treated as another shooting attack profile, which makes it bland.

[Hollow]

Having an entire magic mini-game within the actual game was always cumbersome. Much prefer the idea that a firebolt is fired in the shooting phase. Gives the spells character, the opposite of bland. Having everything done in a slow, bogged-down phase that only certain factions completely dominate is the definition of bland to me, and always was. Much better this way. 

[Tonhel]

There is no immersion breaking of blandness with a mage casting some kind of magic missile in the shooting phase instead of in a seperate magic phase. So *if they* do it like this it sounds great to me.

[Beliman]

8 hours ago, Flippy said:

How is that better? That basically said that magic is integral to the game so they decided to remove the magic phase in order to “liberate” spellcasting. This is corporate nonsense level. Magic is supposed to be different on mechanical level - otherwise you end with fireball treated as another shooting attack profile, which makes it bland.

TOW seems to follow Horus Heresy really close. Psychic weapons are profiles and magic-buffs/debuffs are automatic, but all of them have their own Psychic Checks instead of a Cast Roll.

If the magic weapons are diferent enough, I think that it could be a lot better than a Magic Phase for all type of spells.

[HorticulusTGA]

3 hours ago, Beliman said:

TOW seems to follow Horus Heresy really close

Yeah I was going to ask exactly that.

@Beliman do you play HH ? Can you or someone explain how Psychic Powers work in HH 2nd ed., please ?

[Skreech Verminking]

12 hours ago, Flippy said:

How is that better? That basically said that magic is integral to the game so they decided to remove the magic phase in order to “liberate” spellcasting. This is corporate nonsense level. Magic is supposed to be different on mechanical level - otherwise you end with fireball treated as another shooting attack profile, which makes it bland.

 

 

12 hours ago, Hollow said:

Having an entire magic mini-game within the actual game was always cumbersome. Much prefer the idea that a firebolt is fired in the shooting phase. Gives the spells character, the opposite of bland. Having everything done in a slow, bogged-down phase that only certain factions completely dominate is the definition of bland to me, and always was. Much better this way. 

While I don’t quite think that much will change in blandness, if a spell like the fireball gets cast in a mgical phase or the shooting phase, there are definitely some concerns I’m currently facing.

When the new edition of 40k came out (10th) they announced something very similar to this one, yet instead of making magic an interesting factor on it’s own it basically became like an all around ability existing all the time on the wizard, without me needing to succeed a casting roll or the opponent getting any chance to dispel.

while this procedure definitely took away one of the phases making the game in it’s own way a bit faster then last edition, magic or psychic abilities currently in my opinion are ver dull and boring in that current editions 40k.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, Skreech Verminking said:

 

While I don’t quite think that much will change in blandness, if a spell like the fireball gets cast in a mgical phase or the shooting phase, there are definitely some concerns I’m currently facing.

When the new edition of 40k came out (10th) they announced something very similar to this one, yet instead of making magic an interesting factor on it’s own it basically became like an all around ability existing all the time on the wizard, without me needing to succeed a casting roll or the opponent getting any chance to dispel.

while this procedure definitely took away one of the phases making the game in it’s own way a bit faster then last edition, magic or psychic abilities currently in my opinion are ver dull and boring in that current editions 40k.

Is there a connection you see between not having a dedicated magic phase and not needing to roll to cast/dispell? Because those two features seem separate to me, even though 40k introduced them at the same time.

[Beliman]

15 minutes ago, HorticulusTGA said:

Yeah I was going to ask exactly that.

@Beliman do you play HH ? Can you or someone explain how Psychic Powers work in HH 2nd ed., please ?

Not as much as I want. Disciplines (Lores, but take in mind that your magic users knows an entire Discipline) work as packs of 2 abilities.

If your Librarian knows Biomancy, he learns an ability called Biomantic Augmentation and a Psychic Weapon called Biomancer's Rage.

The first ability usually have a phase that you can cast (instead of makiong a shooting attack...) and buffs/debuffs friendly/enemy units.

1. If this abilities are powerful (no LOS, infinite range, etc...), the model needs to make a psychich check (bravery check that can't be ignored) and if it fails, your mage takes Perils of the Warp (aka, 1D3 mw).
2. If this abilities are basic buffs/debuffs (+1str for Biomantic Augmentation), they can be improved with a psychic test to make them a bit better (an extra +1str and +1 thougness), but that means that they can fail and take Peril of the Warp.

The second ability is always a Psychic Weapon. They have their own special profile with something really juicy or unique (AoE weapons, autowound Weapons, Rend -5, etc... you get the point), but all of them have an USR called Psychic Focus (or at least 90% of the psychic weapons). That USR means that the model using this profile must pass a psychic check to use the weapon, and if it fails, the model can still use the weapon but suffer Perils of the Warp if it's alive.

Take in mind that Librarians have 2 wounds and you usually have 3 or 4 slots for HQs (and you always want a Praetor as a general, so one of them is taken).

[Wraith]

I will have three armies for both ToW and AoS and one for AoS only*. Dark Elves/DoK will be ToW focused and will have mainly square bases with some AoS only models on round bases (eg: Melusai) . I am not decided how to handle the Skaven and Slaves to Darkness/Warriors of Chaos. Hedonites of Slaanesh are AoS only. Though I guess the daemons might overlap worlds.

 

Who else will have army collections that overlap both ToW of AoS?

 

*plus Daemons of Chaos as a fifth army for 40K. I don't actually play 40K, but including all my daemons in one list seems like a neat creative accountancy trick to pretend I have few armies than I actually do.

[sandlemad]

Separate to the rules discussion but none of the nostalgia was working for me until I saw the classic old studio dwarf hold terrain in this image. All the way back from 2000 and still looks gorgeous, just like I saw in WD as a kid.

The door is like a Book of Kells page and is represents an aspect of dwarf aesthetics that diminished after 7th ed.

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by sandlemad

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Is there a connection you see between not having a dedicated magic phase and not needing to roll to cast/dispell? Because those two features seem separate to me, even though 40k introduced them at the same time.

Well, gw mentioned something similar of magic becoming a phase thing with those ability.

it’s more of a fear then anything else.

14 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Skaven and Slaves to Darkness/Warriors of Chaos. Hedonites of Slaanesh are AoS only. Though I guess the daemons might overlap worlds.

You could easily use pretty much all of the units of those factions as well with blissbarb archer maybe being the exception

[Bosskelot]

The removal of the psychic phase in 40k has actually been really bad. It's made everything less interactive and given players and their opponents less agency in a lot of cases.

This doesn't have to mean TOW will be the same, but there's already an instance of it not working in another GW game system currently so I'd be a little worried.

Really not a fan of the whole wide frontages thing either. One of the things that killed old fantasy was the increasingly large rank bonus required to have functional units and how the actual regiment sets sold didn't give you useable units in that regard unless you bought 3 of them. Seems like it's just repeating the same mistakes and will have the same end results.

[Public Universal Duardin]

The only worry I have is that instead of the conga lines 40K had a few editions ago, TOW will get armies doing line dance. I mean, unless there's restrictions in place what prevents me from running a 100-man (well, Dwarf) wide unit of dwarfs with great axes lmao

[Wraith]

23 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

You could easily use pretty much all of the units of those factions as well with blissbarb archer maybe being the exception

My Hedonites of Slaanesh army is mainly mortals. I don't think any of those are ideal for ToW. I have plenty of more suitable minis, so don't really need to press them into service. That whole army is only around 1000 points at present. This one will stay AoS focused and will always remain a secondary army. I just really like the models in this range. Also, this list is a bit overpowering at present. OK in tournaments but not ideal in friendlies. Undercoated and waiting for painting.

 

The Dark Elves will definitely be ToW focused, square bases and all. This one is for old time's sake. I used to run a Dark Elf army back in the day. So this is a little nostalgia trip for me. I am thinking of doing the full Monty and building it around a narrative story. It will be something similar to the "Mengil Manhide" story, a corsair force cut off from the fleet and left to fend for themselves.

I bought some of the DoK box sets on big discounts. I have a few DoK overflow minis as a result. I will build a small 1000 point AoS DoK army. Though that will grow to 2000 points if I buy Morathi (the new one, I mean. I have the old one on pegasus). And who doesn't love a monster girl army? Building not yet started.

 

Slaves to Darkness is my main faction and I have accumulated a sizable collection. I can make a good start on a ToW WoC army just with my StD pile of shame. I might rebase the marauders, as I suspect their time in the Mortal Realms is coming to an end. That will still leave enough StD in the Mortal Realms to field three 2000 point chaos armies simultaneously. The Darkoath Ravagers is my favorite, but narrative only, as it sucks, competitively speaking.

I recall reading comments on youtube when the square bases were announced by people swearing they would not buy a bunch of new figures on square bases just to play ToW. And I was like: "Wait, you mean I have an excuse to build yet another new Chaos army?".

The StD/WoC collection is so big that I think I can get away with both round and square bases. And I still have some old ones on the traditional sized square bases, just for good measure. Chaos daemons and some other allies fit in here. Various stages from unbuilt to finished.

 

The Skaven are the faction I should have been playing all along. I am definitely a natural Skaven player. I take risks and enjoy throwing more cannon fodder into the meat grinder. I had planned to start building the army in June of this year. But I felt that I need news of ToW and the next AoS launch box to decide how best to go about this project. Square bases or round bases? ToW focused or AoS focused? I still haven't reached a decision. Building not yet started.

 

So I could end up with three ToW armies. Depends what I decide to do with the Skaven. 

 

 

 

[madmac]

On 7/24/2023 at 9:45 AM, KingKull said:

Not sure I like the "whole first rank fights always" thing, but the wizards thing seems promising, if vague.

There will be consequences, but the main benefit (IMO) is that it will make base size less of a hidden stat boost, and also mean things like conversion trays or just not having quite the right size bases will matter less. For making the game more accessible, that's not nothing.

[Tervindar]

19 minutes ago, madmac said:

There will be consequences, but the main benefit (IMO) is that it will make base size less of a hidden stat boost, and also mean things like conversion trays or just not having quite the right size bases will matter less. For making the game more accessible, that's not nothing.

Agreed, if it makes the game more accessible then I am all for it. Plenty of other RNF games already do that and works perfectly well.

[EccentricCircle]

I still have five whole WFB armies from back in the day: Lizardmen, Tomb Kings, Dwarfs, Vampire Counts and Chaos Dwarfs. So I should be good to play out of the gate. I was then dabbling with some elven factions when end times hit, which became CoS and DOK armies, but are still mostly on squares. I'm tempted to make my first old world project a full wood elf army, repaint everyone nicely and get that set up for old world. the humans i got for cos could then be a small empire force, though my cos was always more about dwarves and elves.

my Gloomspite are on round bases, but functionally should still be a perfectly playable night goblin force. Likewise my older sylvaneth can stay on rounds and slot right into wood elves. My Slaves to darkness are mainly warcry models, so might need some work to make them fit. 

 

the big question is skaven. I have them unbuilt from a couple of the vs boxes and the old spire of dawn models on squares, so could make that a full old world army too!

[Doko]

On 7/25/2023 at 1:16 PM, Wraith said:

Who else will have army collections that overlap both ToW of AoS?

i have city of sigmar that all overlap(mostly 3k points of dwarfs) and soulbligth that also are vampire counts.

i gonna keep them with ovals because wont have problem to use them as blocks of unit in tow with ovals

[Bosskelot]

On 7/26/2023 at 3:42 PM, madmac said:

There will be consequences, but the main benefit (IMO) is that it will make base size less of a hidden stat boost, and also mean things like conversion trays or just not having quite the right size bases will matter less. For making the game more accessible, that's not nothing.

 Yeah if the mechanic really is just everything can fight and there's no exact lining up corners to see who can/can't fight then I could legit see circular bases on movement trays being perfectly useable in the new system. That would actually be pretty massive.

[Twisted Firaun]

So, did anybody else read the Yuan Bo short story total war today? I won't lie if Cathay has half of the units shown in TWW when it finally becomes tabletop ready I'll be happy.

[HorticulusTGA]

On 7/29/2023 at 7:01 PM, Twisted Firaun said:

So, did anybody else read the Yuan Bo short story total war today? I won't lie if Cathay has half of the units shown in TWW when it finally becomes tabletop ready I'll be happy.

Yeah I did yesterday ! Apparently it's from David Guymer who did great things with Duardin in AOS. 

That made me re-read the WarCom articles about designing and mapping Cathay to get a sense of the land and the Dragon characters (and also the Watchtower assault fluff part from Tamurkhan : Throne Of Chaos ❤️).

Loved it. 

[Clan's Cynic]

Tzaangors being present is an interesting one, might foreshadow them having rules in TOW?

[Twisted Firaun]

11 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Tzaangors being present is an interesting one, might foreshadow them having rules in TOW?

Ah @Clan's Cynic, it also leads to an interesting question: are they gonna create a new Tzaangor kit to reflect their appearance in TWW? Or are they gonna let us use our current kit/army (Tzeentch players will understand) instead? Either way I can’t wait for TOW to drop!

[novakai]

24 minutes ago, Twisted Firaun said:

Ah @Clan's Cynic, it also leads to an interesting question: are they gonna create a new Tzaangor kit to reflect their appearance in TWW? Or are they gonna let us use our current kit/army (Tzeentch players will understand) instead? Either way I can’t wait for TOW to drop!

Since the army not in the TOw (not a core faction) to begin with am guessing there no plans to do anything with Tzaangors in ToW probably no rules either.

[cyrus]

New rumours from the new Valrak video
Of course as always shovel salt as needed

- Release in October already
- Instead of one starter box with both Tomb Kings and Bretonnians each will get their own box

 

From : Dakkadakka

Edited August 23, 2023 by cyrus