The Rumour Thread

[Charles]

3 hours ago, Mutton said:

Rather than Endless Spells, KO should get emplacements, like a gigantic artillery piece, a minefield, etc.

I would enjoy a Kharadron homing torpedo’s & Sky Mines.

They could also have a scenery piece that is an Ather stream/Seam or a Cloud miner 

😍

 

Khorne could have a Black Rift or Viel of Blood that Deamons can break through that can be set up by heroes so you can still summon after hey are all dead, or provides bonus Blood Tithe. They could also have “endless spell” models for the Brass Meateor, Portal of Skulls 💀💀

Edited January 10, 2019 by Charles

[MeridarchGekkota]

2 hours ago, Aryann said:

I was really hyped to start a Gloomspite Gitz army and didn't pay much attention to Stubbas and Shootas until now. Why on earth GW makes all that shiny models of squigs, troggoths and mushrooms and then leaves most standard unit that will be the backbone of most armies looking like an old s**t? Really. A unit that will come somewhere between 40-100 models is made of boring clones, all in the same poses. It doesn't even come close to their today's standard of let's say Bloodreavers or Namarti Thralls. They are ugly. I'd rather they skipped snufflers or other second priority unit and remade the most common one. I don't get it. This might be the only reason I skip this release. Have to check later how playable are GG lists without a single unit of stabbas or shootas. 

Because they're plastic and look absolutely fine?

Feel free to convert them if you don't like the posing.

[The_Yellow_Sign]

2 hours ago, Aryann said:

I was really hyped to start a Gloomspite Gitz army and didn't pay much attention to Stubbas and Shootas until now. Why on earth GW makes all that shiny models of squigs, troggoths and mushrooms and then leaves most standard unit that will be the backbone of most armies looking like an old s**t? Really. A unit that will come somewhere between 40-100 models is made of boring clones, all in the same poses. It doesn't even come close to their today's standard of let's say Bloodreavers or Namarti Thralls. They are ugly. I'd rather they skipped snufflers or other second priority unit and remade the most common one. I don't get it. This might be the only reason I skip this release. Have to check later how playable are GG lists without a single unit of stabbas or shootas. 

Meanwhile, Beasts of Chaos got zero updated models, and zero new models. All we got were fewer endless spells, and a smaller terrain feature than Gloomspite.

[Nos]

4 hours ago, Mutton said:

Rather than Endless Spells, KO should get emplacements, like a gigantic artillery piece, a minefield, etc.

Only thing with that is most Endless Spells are not consistently “for” one player. The initial cast is but then after that majority are preadatory. 

Could have something like a Tornado or Thunderstorm or such that KO due to their navigational prowess can “predict” and stay away from initially while enemy gets caught in it.

[Sleboda]

3 hours ago, Aryann said:

most standard unit that will be the backbone of most armies looking like an old s**t? Really. A unit that will come somewhere between 40-100 models is made of boring clones, all in the same poses. They are ugly

I respect your opinion, but disagree with it entirely.

I believe those models hold up well, and further, I believe it to be a positive that they have very little pose variation.

It speeds assembly and painting, while lending a regimental feel to the units. It is also therapeutic to me to get in a process-based painting zone as often happens with models like these.

I am highly pleased with this situation.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Sleboda

[Gecktron]

1 hour ago, Nos said:

Only thing with that is most Endless Spells are not consistently “for” one player. The initial cast is but then after that majority are preadatory. 

Could have something like a Tornado or Thunderstorm or such that KO due to their navigational prowess can “predict” and stay away from initially while enemy gets caught in it.

I think people are clamoring for endless spells because they like models representing specific abilities. So they don't have to necessary work like all the other endless spells as long as players get some new models to play around with. 

Sky-mines and torpedos were good suggestions. How about linking these "spells" to the airships. People like ships and making them "casters" would be something fitting the Kharadrons. What Im imagining is, you have a set of upgrades you can buy your ships which enables them to place the "spell" models on the field. 

One of these abilities could be a salvo of torpedos (12" move, fly, D6 MW when moved within 1" of a enemy unit), a set of sky-mines or a automated turret that could be dropped from a ship. 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Gecktron

[stato]

24 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

I think people are clamoring for endless spells because they like models representing specific abilities. So don't have to necessary work like all the other endless spells as long as players get some new models to play around with. 

Sky-mines and torpedos were good suggestions. How about linking these "spells" to the airships. People like ships and making them "casters" would be something fitting the Kharadrons. What Im imagining is, you have a set of upgrades you can buy your ships which enables them to place the "spell" models on the field. 

One of these abilities could be a salvo of torpedos (12" move, fly, D6 MW when moved within 1" of a enemy unit), a set of sky-mines or a automated turret that could be dropped from a ship. 

But youve now moved away from spells (cos you dont want Dwarfs to have spells) into something totally different that cant use the spell mechanic because it would make no sense to dispel torpedos.  

[Gecktron]

3 minutes ago, stato said:

But youve now moved away from spells (cos you dont want Dwarfs to have spells) into something totally different that cant use the spell mechanic because it would make no sense to dispel torpedos.  

Yeah, thats what I said. People dont like Endless Spells because they are spells but because they give in-game abilities physical models. 

[Overread]

Another option would be to give armies like KO a bonus to taking allied mages. That way the KO retain their ability to be magic free, but gain an increased reason to take an allied mage to bolster up a clear gap in their armed forces. Just like many real armies would, if there's a gap they'd want to fix it.

Could be the KO have no magic, but have access to some ancient texts (or stole them) which allows them to train or empower (for a limited period) allied mages with a specific set of spells or endless spells etc... So they can take them; they might even get a points reduction on taking an allied mage or it might not count toward ally limits in their army etc... 

GW could even take this a step further and give KO a specific model that is an allied mage - such as a runecaster from another force. The Casters of the Order of the Brick joined the ranks of the KO upon being saved when their tower was falling down - pledging their name and giving the once magic free faction access to some limited spellcasting etc...

[Nos]

1 hour ago, Gecktron said:

I think people are clamoring for endless spells because they like models representing specific abilities. So they don't have to necessary work like all the other endless spells as long as players get some new models to play around with. 

Sky-mines and torpedos were good suggestions. How about linking these "spells" to the airships. People like ships and making them "casters" would be something fitting the Kharadrons. What Im imagining is, you have a set of upgrades you can buy your ships which enables them to place the "spell" models on the field. 

One of these abilities could be a salvo of torpedos (12" move, fly, D6 MW when moved within 1" of a enemy unit), a set of sky-mines or a automated turret that could be dropped from a ship. 

Well I mean of course everyone wants new models. That’s sort of a given in this hobby. But they have to be in keeping with how the game works.  Endless spells are a points investment which are also a gamble of sorts. They can potentially do tremendous damage or modify fights but the caveat is that most with that potential are not fully controllable. By the same token any similar addition to KO would need to have that aspect.

A flying 12 inch D6 MW “spell” has no setbacks what so ever. It’s basically a hero that auto hits, dosent need to charge, and can’t be hit back or stopped for, going off the existing Endless Spell points, 100 points max.  That’s ridiculous. 

You would need to add in the caveat that once fired it can go in a certain trajectory and then scatter, or roll for a misfire from the ship that fired it each turn to represent the strain of experimental weaponry or something to bring it more in keeping with an Endless Spell.

[Aeryenn]

2 hours ago, MeridarchGekkota said:

Because they're plastic and look absolutely fine?

Feel free to convert them if you don't like the posing.

Look absolutely fine? Compared to what? Surely not post End Times releases. They look old and static. That's obvious and it doesn't require further discussion.

And yeah, converting 100 outdated battleline models is exactly how I like to spend my free time.

It's just that compared to "new" grots these stabbas and shootas look like they've been taken from another, old game. I'm not a plastic mini designer but I wonder how much more effort would it take to bring whole Gloomspite Gitz to a new dimension, new AoS era without leaving one leg in WHFB era. It just feels like the work was half done. It's like they sell us brand new 4k HDR Smart TV with great stereo but it only plays in black & white. That's how I feel when I look at Gloomspite as a whole knowing that MOST models for a standard GG army are Stabbas and Shootas.

And I'm afraid that the same pattern will be used to update some other pre-AoS factions like Deathrattle. We will get amazing cavalery and elite skelleton units but the standard skelleton warriors will remain (which still look WAY better then Stabbas...)

2 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Meanwhile, Beasts of Chaos got zero updated models, and zero new models. All we got were fewer endless spells, and a smaller terrain feature than Gloomspite.

And sadly in my opinion it was one of the worst AoS releases so far. It was just lazy. Still better than nothing.

 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Aryann

[Nos]

32 minutes ago, Aryann said:

Look absolutely fine? Compared to what? Surely not post End Times releases. They look old and static. That's obvious and it doesn't require further discussion.

And yeah, converting 100 outdated battleline models is exactly how I like to spend my free time.

It's just that compared to "new" grots these stabbas and shootas look like they've been taken from another, old game. I'm not a plastic mini designer but I wonder how much more effort would it take to bring whole Gloomspite Gitz to a new dimension, new AoS era without leaving one leg in WHFB era. It just feels like the work was half done. It's like they sell us brand new 4k HDR Smart TV with great stereo but it only plays in black & white. That's how I feel when I look at Gloomspite as a whole knowing that MOST models for a standard GG army are Stabbas and Shootas.

And I'm afraid that the same pattern will be used to update some other pre-AoS factions like Deathrattle. We will get amazing cavalery and elite skelleton units but the standard skelleton warriors will remain (which still look WAY better then Stabbas...)

And sadly in my opinion it was one of the worst AoS releases so far. It was just lazy. Still better than nothing.

 

Feel free to use superior models from other ranges I guess. Or y’know just don’t collect them if you don’t like the models. Or collect the ones you do and make an army of them.

 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Nos

[Melcavuk]

Blood bowl Grots mesh well with spare arms from Stabbas/shootas if you want modern variants. But as with all modern variants you’ll end up paying significantly more for them. In that regard not getting updated kept the moonclan grots comparatively cost effective

[andysonic1]

8 hours ago, Charles said:

Khorne could have a Black Rift or Viel of Blood that Deamons can break through that can be set up by heroes so you can still summon after hey are all dead, or provides bonus Blood Tithe. They could also have “endless spell” models for the Brass Meateor, Portal of Skulls 💀💀

Wouldn't mind an overhaul of the book Blood Tithe table that gives it "Endless Prayers" instead of some of the options. Most of them are never used as is.

[Zamik]

8 hours ago, Charles said:

Khorne could have a Black Rift or Viel of Blood that Deamons can break through that can be set up by heroes so you can still summon after hey are all dead, or provides bonus Blood Tithe. They could also have “endless spell” models for the Brass Meateor, Portal of Skulls 💀💀

I love the idea of making the Portal of Skulls an endless "spell" model! Perhaps it can be like the Beasts of Chaos herdstone, where it's area of influence grows over the course of the battle. God, I want this to exist and I want to paint it and play with it!

[Walrustaco]

When they make Endless Spells for Ogors, one of them should be an ogor on a moped, who arrives from the table edge with the massive takeaway that the lads ordered from the turn before.

Not sure what it would do. Maybe heal them or inspire them somehow. Maybe they'd have to roll dice at the end of the combat phase to see if they get the sh*ts from the chicken madras.

[Klamm]

Since GW seem to be signalling a boxed game with some new models followed by book release (+terrain and spells), what I would most want from a KO thing (which I guess we could hope for by around 2020, realistically), is a special aerial battle game. You could release an all-flying KO force and an all-flying antagonistic faction (Grot Scuttler sky pirates perhaps, or a Skaven air navy), with some neutral natural air threats (loved the KO book asides about various beasts drawn to Aether-gold). 

So, instead of endless spells or terrain (not in keeping with the army, really), I'd rather see a cool battlebox to go along with a different air-themed faction.

I'd like to see yet another ship added to the roster (perhaps a specially designed monster hunting ship?) as well as some cool ariel beasties (some manticore pups and one crazy sky whale or Kraken monstrosity). The latter could solve the endless spell deficiency: what if the KO had some ability to lure (e.g. 'summon') hazardous sky beasts to the battlefield? It would be dangerous, but have some strategic value and make sense in the lore. So you could have a 'neutral' sky monster whose mechanics would be similar to that of a predatory spell, except you can't unbind it (though perhaps as well as simply killing it there's a battleshock mechanic to  'scare it off'. 

[cofaxest]

1 hour ago, Klamm said:

Since GW seem to be signalling a boxed game with some new models followed by book release (+terrain and spells), what I would most want from a KO thing (which I guess we could hope for by around 2020, realistically), is a special aerial battle game. You could release an all-flying KO force and an all-flying antagonistic faction (Grot Scuttler sky pirates perhaps, or a Skaven air navy), with some neutral natural air threats (loved the KO book asides about various beasts drawn to Aether-gold). 

So, instead of endless spells or terrain (not in keeping with the army, really), I'd rather see a cool battlebox to go along with a different air-themed faction.

I'd like to see yet another ship added to the roster (perhaps a specially designed monster hunting ship?) as well as some cool ariel beasties (some manticore pups and one crazy sky whale or Kraken monstrosity). The latter could solve the endless spell deficiency: what if the KO had some ability to lure (e.g. 'summon') hazardous sky beasts to the battlefield? It would be dangerous, but have some strategic value and make sense in the lore. So you could have a 'neutral' sky monster whose mechanics would be similar to that of a predatory spell, except you can't unbind it (though perhaps as well as simply killing it there's a battleshock mechanic to  'scare it off'. 

You know... I really like that idea, but more likely it could be KO vs Tzeench with some sort of flying monster (potentially for BoC?) with new hero and 1 new unit and close battletome release with terrain and ES. 

[sorokyl]

10 hours ago, Aryann said:

Look absolutely fine? Compared to what? Surely not post End Times releases. They look old and static. That's obvious and it doesn't require further discussion.

It's just that compared to "new" grots these stabbas and shootas look like they've been taken from another, old game. I'm not a plastic mini designer but I wonder how much more effort would it take to bring whole Gloomspite Gitz to a new dimension, new AoS era without leaving one leg in WHFB era. hing.

 

3

that's just like, your opinion, man.   Actually I think aesthetically they blend in with Zarbag's gitz quite well.  The pose is stiff I agree

I don't think it's a matter of effort, it's really the cost. If the current kit works, why spend hundreds of thousands of dollars revamping them (which is truly what I think it would cost, after factoring in design, machining new molds, recalling/destroying old product, all the other steps we don't know about). Also consider that pretty recently they have been production bottlenecked. Why tie up your machines making a bunch of basic ass infantry. 

Also, consider the cost.  It would be a $50 kit for 20 grots, for sure. Twice the price.  Would be a lot harder to put an army together. I got 100+ grots for about $1 each. that includes a couple of new boxes. I am thankful they left well enough alone. 
 

[MitGas]

While I don't think the basic grots units aged badly and need replacement ASAP, new toys are obviously always welcome. I liken this to the whole Chaos Warrior kit discussion - it's still a decent kit but looks pretty dated nonetheless next to newer minis. There's no denying that and it's a bit baffling that such an iconic unit didn't get remade instead of adding let's say Blood Warriors as the battle-line units are such a huge part of an army - with mortal chaos it's quite obvious though as if they replaced basic warriors, the awkward knights would've needed to be replaced as well. 

I do not think that creating molds is as expensive as people in the hobby think though. A friend of mine is designing custom car parts for a living and they get injection-molded as well - and if it cost him/the client "hundreds of thousand of dollars" it would never be viable for small runs. I think it's more in the 50k range AT THE VERY MOST including salary ( 3d character artist(s)/CAD guys, mold technicians). Material cost (plastic) is very low. 

[novakai]

I mean to begin with the Night goblin infantry models where probably the lowest priority of all the existing units to get a new kit considered that they replaced nearly all the Night goblin resin/metal units plus the Rockguts. Fanatic made sense in a way because the old one came with weird slotted bases and there unit size where smaller.  I don't think it fair or realistic to expect more considering how big this release has already been. the only thing that felt weird to me about the release was that they didn't have room to add the Scuttlings from Silver Tower in but that not a big deal.

 

[Skabnoze]

20 hours ago, Aryann said:

I was really hyped to start a Gloomspite Gitz army and didn't pay much attention to Stubbas and Shootas until now. Why on earth GW makes all that shiny models of squigs, troggoths and mushrooms and then leaves most standard unit that will be the backbone of most armies looking like an old s**t? Really. A unit that will come somewhere between 40-100 models is made of boring clones, all in the same poses. It doesn't even come close to their today's standard of let's say Bloodreavers or Namarti Thralls. They are ugly. I'd rather they skipped snufflers or other second priority unit and remade the most common one. I don't get it. This might be the only reason I skip this release. Have to check later how playable are GG lists without a single unit of stabbas or shootas. 

They are less than an inch tall each and wear robes head to toe - what do you expect the design team to do with that?

I thought the current sculpts were fine and I am not surprised to see them stay the same.

That said, you can easily build entire armies without the normal grots if you want.

[Skabnoze]

17 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

and a smaller terrain feature than Gloomspite.

Well, I am sure all of us grots are over-compensating for something...

[Skabnoze]

17 hours ago, Sleboda said:

I respect your opinion, but disagree with it entirely.

I believe those models hold up well, and further, I believe it to be a positive that they have very little pose variation.

It speeds assembly and painting, while lending a regimental feel to the units. It is also therapeutic to me to get in a process-based painting zone as often happens with models like these.

I am highly pleased with this situation.

I actually prefer the battle for skulls pass 1-piece version of these sculpts for that reason.  

[Skabnoze]

4 hours ago, sorokyl said:

that's just like, your opinion, man.   Actually I think aesthetically they blend in with Zarbag's gitz quite well.  The pose is stiff I agree

I enjoy all of the models in the Zarbag’s gitz set, but they don’t really stand out much from the normal Moonclan grots.  They have a few extra details, but if you mix them into a unit and stand back a few feet they get lost in the mix.

I think part of that is simply that the models are really tiny and the Night Goblin aesthetic does not overly lend itself to really dramatic poses or sculpts for the infantry.  But I think they look just fine.  What else would someone expect from a swarm of tiny little goblins?