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Where are the ogors, orcs and meat-people news? I hope we receive info in the next few days...:(

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20 minutes ago, michu said:

Yeah, @Sleboda IIRC @JReynolds said once that  when you start worshipping Nagash and using necromancy he imbue you with part of his power and it slowly replace you - it still thinks like you, it even thinks it's you, but you really  just became a mini-Nagash. 

Bear in mind that this doesn't preclude rebellion of some sort. Mannfred rebels all the time, often loudly and with explosions.  Arkhan rebels as well, albeit in more subtle ways. So does Neferata. 

Think of it like Doombots. Dr. Doom (bad guy from the Fantastic Four, if you're not familiar with comics) makes robot doubles of himself to undertake dangerous tasks, enact certain schemes or to do the stuff he doesn't want to bother with.  These doubles are so perfect that they assume that they're the real Doom, unless he's in the room with them - and even then, some of them maintain a strong suspicion that they're real and he's not. And since they think like Doom, they act like Doom.  So they plot and scheme against each other (and the the real Doom) because there can only be one Doom, and obviously it's them. 

Basically, Nagash has absolute control, except when he doesn't, because his servants are all to one degree or another shadows of him.  Which means that like him, some want to be on top and they'll knock over anyone they have to, to do it. Including him. If he's paying attention, he can swat them down without any real difficulty. But if he's not (say, because he's preoccupied waging war on Sigmar, Archaon et al), then there's a good chance they might get away with it for a while. 

So if you want your Death leader to be a rebel against Nagash, the established meta-narrative is flexible enough to fully support that. Same as if you want them to be an unwilling slave of Nagash, a contented servant, or an unwitting dupe. 

At least in my opinion. Your mileage, as they say, may vary. 

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39 minutes ago, JReynolds said:

Bear in mind that this doesn't preclude rebellion of some sort. Mannfred rebels all the time, often loudly and with explosions.  Arkhan rebels as well, albeit in more subtle ways. So does Neferata. 

Think of it like Doombots. Dr. Doom (bad guy from the Fantastic Four, if you're not familiar with comics) makes robot doubles of himself to undertake dangerous tasks, enact certain schemes or to do the stuff he doesn't want to bother with.  These doubles are so perfect that they assume that they're the real Doom, unless he's in the room with them - and even then, some of them maintain a strong suspicion that they're real and he's not. And since they think like Doom, they act like Doom.  So they plot and scheme against each other (and the the real Doom) because there can only be one Doom, and obviously it's them. 

Basically, Nagash has absolute control, except when he doesn't, because his servants are all to one degree or another shadows of him.  Which means that like him, some want to be on top and they'll knock over anyone they have to, to do it. Including him. If he's paying attention, he can swat them down without any real difficulty. But if he's not (say, because he's preoccupied waging war on Sigmar, Archaon et al), then there's a good chance they might get away with it for a while. 

So if you want your Death leader to be a rebel against Nagash, the established meta-narrative is flexible enough to fully support that. Same as if you want them to be an unwilling slave of Nagash, a contented servant, or an unwitting dupe. 

At least in my opinion. Your mileage, as they say, may vary. 

So in other words when the chips are down and they are in Nagash's presence it's pointless, but they can still do their own little side shows. This fits with LON, where it says Nagash doesn't require their loyalty. Since no matter how much they scheme when Nagash says jump, each Mortarch will say "How high?" and when they finished jumping they will turn around and begin plotting again until Nagash asks them to jump again. Am I on the right track? 

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1 minute ago, shinros said:

So in other words when the chips are down and they are in Nagash's presence it's pointless, but they can still do their own little side shows. This fits with LON, where it says Nagash doesn't require their loyalty. Since no matter how much they scheme when Nagash says jump, each Mortarch will say "How high?" and when they finished jumping they will turn around and begin plotting again until Nagash asks them to jump again. Am I on the right track? 

Yep, that's it exactly. 

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28 minutes ago, xking said:

Won't Nagash just read their minds and immediately know about the plot? 

Yeah but in most stories he doesn't care because he just unravels the plot in that very second, he does it to Mannfred during the Malign portents stories via actually going through his mind like a book. Let's not forget no matter how much they plan it won't work, hence why he doesn't really stop them. He can overcome them, change their thinking with just a word and they won't even realise it. He does it to Neferata, she thinks her plan is her own but it was Nagash manipulating her actions, mind and words.  

It's why Arkhan goes the subtle route(Which does not work all that much either since Nagash keeps going over the top which brings Arkhan's plans crashing down.), and let's not forget the Mortarch's plans overlap and counter one another. 

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Just now, shinros said:

Yeah but in most stories he doesn't care because he just unravels in that very second, he does it to Mannfred during the Malign portents stories via actually going through his mind like a book. Let's not forget no matter how much they plan it won't work, hence why he doesn't really stop them. He can overcome them, change their thinking with just a word and they won't even realise it. He does it to Neferata, she thinks her plan is her own but it was Nagash manipulating her actions, mind and words.  

It's why Arkhan goes the subtle route, and let's not forget the Mortarch's plans overlap and counter one another. 

Pretty much. It's not a question of Nagash knowing. It's a question of Nagash caring. 

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I found it interesting in Soul Wars that Arkhan seemed to avoid Nagash’s scrutiny by continually stating that since he is Nagash, anything he does is Nagash’s will, whether Nagash knows it or not. 

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Plus its likely some of the other gods (mostly Sigmar) might be working on a way to try and subvert Nagash's control. Don't forget Sigmar and Nagash are still waring over the souls of the dead. Sigmar has likely started to see the cracks in his Stormcast when they get reforged a few too many times, meanwhile after the Golden Army stormed into the world its clear that the forces of Chaos (and others) are learning how to fight and combat them. They are no longer a shock and awe invasion force that beat back decadent Chaos forces used to fighting themselves or weaker corrupted and poorer mortals. Plus as more time passes and they take more land their armies have to spread out all the more to hold that land. 

Sigmar likely feels the pinch on his forces since whilst in theory his army should never dwindle and should always grow (because of reforging ); in practice his reforging might reach a limit point and then he'll start losing; especially if the greatest souls of the world are already his stormcast fighting and pushing chaos back. Some interior regions of the Realms might well be getting safe enough to not even harbour the pure hate of chaos to make Sigmar think they are worth the forging process. I'm not sure how much time has officially past for the mortal realms since the Age of Sigmar started (have we got a date?) but its clear that a good few generations have happened - enough to rebuild cities and establish regions where chaos taint isn't present - so that's at least 2-300 years if not more. 

 

 

So if Sigmar can find a way to subvert Nagash's control over his undead then Sigmar can tap into that greater store of souls that Nagash has directly; even more so if those same souls dislike Nagash and want to serve a new God, or at least stop serving Nagash. Even though both of the Gods are clearly using their soul-peoples as near to Slaves. Stormcast are not totally free either it seems, though again Sigmar has to care about them to pay attention to each one, but in general they are still slaved to a Gods Will and desire (in their case the unrelenting hate of Chaos)

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27 minutes ago, JReynolds said:

Pretty much. It's not a question of Nagash knowing. It's a question of Nagash caring. 

exactly!

How says Nagash even cares about what his servants do when he doesn't look.

They don't harm his plans and they do what he wants them to do.

Skelli legions with katapults!!!! I'm sold!

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The lore I've written for my Tomb Kings army is that they were frequently neglected by Nagash, who being Insane/distracted/busy, didn't often exert direct control over them. He's not actually omniscient, so they were able to plot and scheme when he wasn't looking, and learn of a ritual to create a magical field around their kingdom where he can't exert influence over them (or any undead). They knew that the moment they tried to put this into practice, or openly moved against him it would be game over, so instead they sent an emissary to a free city of order. They proposed an alliance with the Free Peoples, and a mortal army led by a cabal of Amethyst Wizards were able to steal one of the books of Nagash and enact the ritual. Nagash saw what was going on, took over the Tomb Kings army, and had them try to fight off the Free Guild, but they were able to complete the ritual and there is now a little kingdom in the middle of the desert where the undead are free of Nagash, and have good relations with the Humans.

 

(Apologies this is totally off topic for this thread, I thought I was posting in the Tithe one where it would have been only mildly off topic!)

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3 hours ago, Sleboda said:

I suppose my point is that, within the lore, all Nagash would have to do to stop an undead uprising is say "stop."

They could even go down a route like in the Warcraft universe, where a group of undead  managed to break their mind free from the influence of the Lich King, in this case Nagash.

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I believe we get a mixed culture skeleton army. 

Because of the story...the guy going from city to city to collect bones and make probably new soldiers out of it.. so he maybe went over different cultural lands..

asian, european..probably also african/egyptian... i also can see new chariots but not the egypt one but eastern one (like chariots from khand (lord of the rings)).

my bet is a revival of Tomb Guard, Sphinx and Snake Kit for egyptian. Chariots , Catapults more like mongolian and elite Samurai skeletons Japanese style

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46 minutes ago, Kugane said:

They could even go down a route like in the Warcraft universe, where a group of undead  managed to break their mind free from the influence of the Lich King, in this case Nagash.

Just imagine an AoS version of Sylvanas Windrunner.... 😍

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44 minutes ago, Brother_Captain said:

Just imagine an AoS version of Sylvanas Windrunner.... 😍

Oh my, that would be quite amazing XD

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1 hour ago, Brother_Captain said:

Just imagine an AoS version of Sylvanas Windrunner.... 😍

Isabella coming back uniting the undead that nagash can t reach freeing one f the gods of the dead ,forming her faction,creating a force to fight back so she can free her hubby.Sounds like a good start.And why Isabella?

1)Motivation.

2)She has no reason to serve bone daddy.

3)We finally can get a true vampire army.

4)I want Vlad back because only he  is the one worthy to lead a full on vampire faction,cus I don t give a dam about mister daddy issue bald head mcgee,theres only one true Von Carstein,and that is Vlad.

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7 hours ago, skeen77 said:

Any guesses on what the new faction will be called?

I'm just gonna go with "The Tithe" for lolz. 

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7 hours ago, skeen77 said:

Any guesses on what the new faction will be called? 😄

Grand Alliance: Death & Taxes.

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Really, Tithe of Bones, The "compound or made up word" Tithe or even just the Tithe would all be neither bad nor out of place among AoS faction names.

 

Wether it's in the name or not, I really like that it is part of their lore. I'm a big fan of the idea of a spiritual beaurocrathy in general and feel it feels particularly fitting with Nagash. For one it really meshes well with his megalomanical sense of hierarchic order and getting his due, for another it all creates the sense that Nagash has become a fundamental part of not just death, but also life in the Mortal Realms and creates a sense of continuity for the Grand Alliance going back all the way to the Age of Myth*, which, in my opinnion, is something the faction needs.

 

*Whereas Legions represent continuity to the World-That-Was, Nighthaunt the stirrup following the Necroquake and thus as Nagashes ambition to reshape the Realms in the Age of Sigmar, and Flesheaters an almost rogue unintended result of the Age of Chaos.

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WAIT A SEC - The Realms Take place on flat land masses whch have a roughly circular shape - like a disk

 

This faction deals with payments and tithes - like some kind of super accountant. 

They are also undead and appear to not have much in the way of emotion 

 

Kind of like some kind of supernatural all powerful - AUDITORS! 

if you fail to get this reference go read Hogfather - if that confuses you go read all of Discworld ;)

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3 hours ago, Huanchi said:

I believe we get a mixed culture skeleton army. 

Because of the story...the guy going from city to city to collect bones and make probably new soldiers out of it.. so he maybe went over different cultural lands..

asian, european..probably also african/egyptian... i also can see new chariots but not the egypt one but eastern one (like chariots from khand (lord of the rings)).

my bet is a revival of Tomb Guard, Sphinx and Snake Kit for egyptian. Chariots , Catapults more like mongolian and elite Samurai skeletons Japanese style

Mongolian empire is basically fitting in every way of your description Imo. At is apogee Mongolian army had heavily armored sword footroop, cataphract like cavalerie, shielded pikemen.l, catapult and chariots... lookalike iconography and clothdesign than we can see in the trailer, hybrid est-west weapon and above all, very similar operation mode (raids, plundering, tribute (hey!"tithe").

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There is a small article about Nova on the community site. It shows a lot of logo’s from game systems (including warcry, AoS and underworlds) and it says there will be reveals for ALL of them😮

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Interesting that Warhammer Legends is on there along side actual "product lines". I don't recall them actually taking time to really announce new stuff moving to legends other than a Warhammer Community post around the time a new battletome that drops old units comes out. Probably going to have the Empire, Dwarfs, Wood Elves and High Elves going to legends, but maybe they'll finally give us a clean cut off of what's going to Legends and what should be safe to buy in the near future and fully do the rest of the legends armies, especially Ogres and Slaves to Darkness since they're the last factions that haven't gotten a full AoS treatment. I was finally going to buy some maneaters because I assumed that being in the GHB with the new mercenary rules made them safe(I'd stopped buying all non-battletome models, unless I plan to use them for other games) but the removal of Dwarf cannons kind of kills that theory. Points for Legends are probably too much to hope for, but battalions and spells lores and faction special rules would be neat, just something small the the GHB allegiance abilities would be neat.

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1 hour ago, elfhead said:

There is a small article about Nova on the community site. It shows a lot of logo’s from game systems (including warcry, AoS and underworlds) and it says there will be reveals for ALL of them😮

That realization when your YouTube channel could be one of the first to discuss Nova releases, because every other big AoS YouTuber is going to either be there or asleep.

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