The Rumour Thread

[flying_dutchman]

39 minutes ago, El Syf said:

Apparently AoS fans didn’t exactly cover ourselves in glory  in Valraks stream of the reveals. I didn’t see it but apparently some AoS fans went rather nuclear!

What happened

[Chikout]

2 hours ago, El Syf said:

Apparently AoS fans didn’t exactly cover ourselves in glory  in Valraks stream of the reveals. I didn’t see it but apparently some AoS fans went rather nuclear!

I just went back and did a quick skim of the chat. There was one person who made a couple of negative comments about the old world. There were way more people slagging off AoS in the FEC segment. The user 'apologising' was one of the people attacking AoS. 

[shinros]

34 minutes ago, Chikout said:

I just went back and did a quick skim of the chat. There was one person who made a couple of negative comments about the old world. There were way more people slagging off AoS in the FEC segment. The user 'apologising' was one of the people attacking AoS. 

Ah yes, a troll who tries to spark up arguments to make a group look bad. But then in turn makes another group look even worse when found out. I know this startergy!

I swear some people have too much time on their hands.

Edited November 20, 2023 by shinros

[Mutton]

I've found that a majority of the people who make fun of AoS know nothing about it other than it has "sigmarines" and "has bad rules". Ignorance and blind hatred hide in every corner of humanity's interests. Best not to get too riled up by it and just enjoy life as best you can.

[MitGas]

30 minutes ago, Mutton said:

I've found that a majority of the people who make fun of AoS know nothing about it other than it has "sigmarines" and "has bad rules". Ignorance and blind hatred hide in every corner of humanity's interests. Best not to get too riled up by it and just enjoy life as best you can.

„Has bad rules“ is quite the statement to make when compared to 40k. 🤭

Might change with TOW now but I bet those same guys will come out and say TOW sucks because of this or that and it‘s just a rehash of WHFB or something equally dumb…
 

Although I‘ll be the first (or possibly like the 4567325th) to say one thing: there‘s a LOT of space for improvement when it comes to rules in both AoS AND 40k. I’m still miffed about the Kill Team rules, what a crock of overcomplicated poopoo they are. If GW wants to become even bigger, they need to make better rules fast as I read and hear one thing very often: „other TT games have waaay better rules“ (most often they praise star wars (never played it, might be objectively true or not…)).

 

 

[JackStreicher]

2 hours ago, MitGas said:

„Has bad rules“ is quite the statement to make when compared to 40k. 🤭

It’s a matter of perspective.

My brother doesn’t like AoS and prefers 40K due to the abundance of Mortal Wounds (and he has a point)

I prefer AoS because it’s less bland to me concerning the factions

Both Systems have great and horrible rules, while the differences are blurred since 10th lend a lot from AoS

AoS has bad rules for Battleshock and Battle Tactics, units struggle to play the way they should play according to their lore

40K missfired with their index rules by a lot

AoS runs quite smoothly and has the better Miniatures

40K units usually play how they should.

Edited November 20, 2023 by JackStreicher

[El Syf]

6 hours ago, flying_dutchman said:

What happened

Well I watched the stream after the reveal one and what he said in that was someone referred to the realms of ruin game as being for the worst game they’ve ever made and then people just started attacking tow fans. But that’s third hand from a stream the day after where Valrak hadn’t seemed to have slept much so the retelling could have been off.

[Luperci]

2 hours ago, MitGas said:

„Has bad rules“ is quite the statement to make when compared to 40k. 🤭

Might change with TOW now but I bet those same guys will come out and say TOW sucks because of this or that and it‘s just a rehash of WHFB or something equally dumb…
 

Although I‘ll be the first (or possibly like the 4567325th) to say one thing: there‘s a LOT of space for improvement when it comes to rules in both AoS AND 40k. I’m still miffed about the Kill Team rules, what a crock of overcomplicated poopoo they are. If GW wants to become even bigger, they need to make better rules fast as I read and hear one thing very often: „other TT games have waaay better rules“ (most often they praise star wars (never played it, might be objectively true or not…)).

 

 

Damn I've played kill team a couple times and found it pretty fun, miles better than the previous kill team edition that I played loads of. 

[cyrus]

11 hours ago, Nezzhil said:

Only one Dawnbringer box for another Death faction is the most plausible bet

Morghast hero here he comes !

 

And do not forget "death related" aelven goodness Morai-heg hinted from Whitefang 

[Ejecutor]

I know it is a bit of the "not releated yet but whising more" kind of conversation, but what else could FEC get? I've checked the current BT and there's not really more than one faction in terms of painting variations. It is all focused on FEC from different realms. Do we expect to have different lords apporting new units? And maybe the court being extended as well?

[Luperci]

Just now, Ejecutor said:

I know it is a bit of the "not releated yet but whising more" kind of conversation, but what else could FEC get? I've checked the current BT and there's not really more than one faction in terms of painting variations. It is all focused on FEC from different realms. Do we expect to have different lords apporting new units? And maybe the court being extended as well?

A new big monster would fit nicely I think, along with a jester character people have already mentioned 

[MotherGoose]

 

5 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

I know it is a bit of the "not releated yet but whising more" kind of conversation, but what else could FEC get? I've checked the current BT and there's not really more than one faction in terms of painting variations. It is all focused on FEC from different realms. Do we expect to have different lords apporting new units? And maybe the court being extended as well?

IMO they don't really have room for much else now that wouldn't be directly competing with units they already have. They've opened up the possibility for a mounted hero on a smaller style bat mount like the new cav, but to be honest they've got so many heroes now I'd rather just have new units. Fast skirmish unit to get into archers quick and disrupt charges etc. like dire wolves? Other than that I can't think of much that they 'need', but there's plenty of options for cool models still.

Edited November 20, 2023 by MotherGoose

[MitGas]

43 minutes ago, Luperci said:

Damn I've played kill team a couple times and found it pretty fun, miles better than the previous kill team edition that I played loads of. 

I dunno, my friends find it too complicated so I don‘t really get to play it… 😭 I hope next KT is becoming more similar to WarCry, which apparently has the best ruleset (haven‘t played it).

[Beliman]

2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

It’s a matter of perspective.

I agree.

But I still think that AoS has some design problems. I'm not talking about balance, or rules that just break the game because something has stat 8 instead of stat 6 or because terrain should obscure units behind it, I don't really care. But my main issue is the way AoS is designed. Just look at all layers of rules we have:

Spoiler

1. Core system (battle rounds, turns, etc...), with basic rolls to do stuff (magic, prayers, hit/wound/save/battleshock/charge) and a generic Keyword system to interact.
2. Generic economic system (Command Points).
3. Generic Monstruous Abilities outside of warscrolls (Monstruous Rampage) with diferent mechanic.
4. Generic Heroic Abilities outside Monstruous Rampage and Command Abilities (Heroic Actions).
5. Battleplans with their own objectives. (A way to win with Victory Points)
6. Generic missions: Grand Strategies (A way to win with Victory Points)
7. Generic Submissions: Battle Tactics  (A way to win with Victory Points)
8. Generic Battallions.
9. Unique Faction abilities:
   1. Unique abilities for their whole army (some with another economic system).
   2. Enhancement: Artifacts, Mount Traits, etc...
10. Unique Faction Batallions 
11. Unique Faction Missions: rand Strategies (A way to win with Victory Points)
12. Unique Faction Missions: Battle Tactics (A way to win with Victory Points)
13. Units and their own abilities: Warscrolls

Why we have 2 types of orders in the game? I mean, Cities of Sigmar Orders and Command Abilities are exactly the same, but completely diferent mechanic because yes. 

Why we have Monstruous Rampage? Kharibdyss has an ability that screams and then there is a Roar Monstruous Rampage that uses a completely diferent system to just... scream (?).

I can see a conversation within the development team:

Lead Writer: Hey, we are going to use some Water terrain sets next season. We need to write a new swimming mechanic.
Rules Writer 01: Fine, swimming is a move, so it should be done in the movement phase... what do you think if we cut in half the movement characteristic of all units that start the Movement Phase on Water Terrain?
Rules Writer 02: Nope, each army will generate 3 points at the third battleround, they should be used in the shooting phase to move 9" to all unit that are on water terrain. 
Lead Writer: Perfection

 

Edite: Btw, I love AoS. I just wanted to point out my only complain. Of course I want less mortal wounds and better balance, but that can be fixe'd with FAQs, erratas, battlescrolls or GHB, that's an ongoing job. Base game rules is something that needs to last for 3 years.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Beliman

[Greene]

29 minutes ago, MotherGoose said:

 

IMO they don't really have room for much else now that wouldn't be directly competing with units they already have. They've opened up the possibility for a mounted hero on a smaller style bat mount like the new cav, but to be honest they've got so many heroes now I'd rather just have new units. Fast skirmish unit to get into archers quick and disrupt charges etc. like dire wolves? Other than that I can't think of much that they 'need', but there's plenty of options for cool models still.

plus
1. wagon from art
2. squire from beastflayer (they are obviously large than new guard)
3. archregent riding on something

even 5 abhorrant elite bodyguard for archregent,
we already have big dragon for crush into enemy ? sure, wagon can be transport car or rally point for generate or restore little ghouls?

we have so many possibilities !

Edited November 20, 2023 by Greene

[Tonhel]

6 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I agree.

But I still think that AoS has some design problems. I'm not talking about balance, or rules that just break the game because something has stat 8 instead of stat 6 or because terrain should obscure units behind it, I don't really care. But my main issue is the way GW is designed. Just look at the layers of rules we have:

  Hide contents

1. Core system (battle rounds, turns, etc...), with basic rolls to do stuff (magic, prayers, hit/wound/save/battleshock/charge) and a generic Keyword system to interact.
2. Generic economic system (Command Points).
3. Generic Monstruous Abilities outside of warscrolls (Monstruous Rampage) with diferent mechanic.
4. Generic Heroic Abilities outside Monstruous Rampage and Command Abilities (Heroic Actions).
5. Battleplans with their own objectives. (A way to win with Victory Points)
6. Generic missions: Grand Strategies (A way to win with Victory Points)
7. Generic Submissions: Battle Tactics  (A way to win with Victory Points)
8. Generic Battallions.
9. Unique Faction abilities:
   1. Unique abilities for their whole army.
   2. Enhancement: Artifacts, Mount Traits, etc...
10. Unique Faction Batallions 
11. Unique Faction Missions: rand Strategies (A way to win with Victory Points)
12. Unique Faction Missions: Battle Tactics (A way to win with Victory Points)
13. Units and their won abilities: Warscrolls

Why we have 2 types of orders in the game? I mean, Cities of Sigmar Orders and Command Abilities are exactly the same, but completely diferent mechanic for thesake of it. 

Why we have Monstruous Rampage? Kharibdyss has an ability that screams and then there is a Roar Monstruous Rampage that uses a completely diferent system to just... scream (?).

I can see a conversation within the development team:

- Hey, next season we are going to use some Water terrain sets. We need to write a new swimming mechanic.
- Fine, swiming is a move, so it should be done in the movement phase... what do you think if we cut in half the movement characteristic of all units that start the phase on Water Terrain?
-Nope, each army will generate 3 points at the third battleround, they should be used in the shooting phase to move 9" to all unit that are on water terrain. 
-Perfection

 

Great post! But still I want to have more freedom with my characters, like it was possible in Warhammer. Infantry heroes all feel a bit the same. In warhammer there was a real and immersive difference of power between various heroes. I mean Vampire and Chaos heroes were scary. Lol, atleast that is how I remember it.

[Grungnisson]

10 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Great post! But still I want to have more freedom with my characters, like it was possible in Warhammer. Infantry heroes all feel a bit the same. In warhammer there was a real and immersive difference of power between various heroes. I mean Vampire and Chaos heroes were scary. Lol, atleast that is how I remember it.

Then we'd need fewer of them in the game. Can't have them all feeling impactful and significant, when some factions have more foot heores than troop units.

[Gitzdee]

24 minutes ago, Grungnisson said:

Then we'd need fewer of them in the game. Can't have them all feeling impactful and significant, when some factions have more foot heores than troop units.

I loved dumping a lot of points into my Scuttleboss general to make him feel like a boss and actually deal significant damage. It wasnt competitive but i still remember those fun games. I am still just a casual players like many others.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Gitzdee

[Souleater]

1 hour ago, Ejecutor said:

I know it is a bit of the "not releated yet but whising more" kind of conversation, but what else could FEC get? I've checked the current BT and there's not really more than one faction in terms of painting variations. It is all focused on FEC from different realms. Do we expect to have different lords apporting new units? And maybe the court being extended as well?

Someone earlier in the thread suggested a ‘Flay Enchantress’ which I think is both delightful and suitable. Court magician could definitely be a thing.

Plus I don’t think any of our heroes are female. Which is odd considering how many of the new troops seem to be.

And riding on some kind of dark Pegasus. 

[pnkdth]

58 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I agree.

But I still think that AoS has some design problems. I'm not talking about balance, or rules that just break the game because something has stat 8 instead of stat 6 or because terrain should obscure units behind it, I don't really care. But my main issue is the way AoS is designed. Just look at all layers of rules we have:

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Core system (battle rounds, turns, etc...), with basic rolls to do stuff (magic, prayers, hit/wound/save/battleshock/charge) and a generic Keyword system to interact.
2. Generic economic system (Command Points).
3. Generic Monstruous Abilities outside of warscrolls (Monstruous Rampage) with diferent mechanic.
4. Generic Heroic Abilities outside Monstruous Rampage and Command Abilities (Heroic Actions).
5. Battleplans with their own objectives. (A way to win with Victory Points)
6. Generic missions: Grand Strategies (A way to win with Victory Points)
7. Generic Submissions: Battle Tactics  (A way to win with Victory Points)
8. Generic Battallions.
9. Unique Faction abilities:
   1. Unique abilities for their whole army (some with another economic system).
   2. Enhancement: Artifacts, Mount Traits, etc...
10. Unique Faction Batallions 
11. Unique Faction Missions: rand Strategies (A way to win with Victory Points)
12. Unique Faction Missions: Battle Tactics (A way to win with Victory Points)
13. Units and their own abilities: Warscrolls

Why we have 2 types of orders in the game? I mean, Cities of Sigmar Orders and Command Abilities are exactly the same, but completely diferent mechanic because yes. 

Why we have Monstruous Rampage? Kharibdyss has an ability that screams and then there is a Roar Monstruous Rampage that uses a completely diferent system to just... scream (?).

I can see a conversation within the development team:

Lead Writer: Hey, we are going to use some Water terrain sets next season. We need to write a new swimming mechanic.
Rules Writer 01: Fine, swimming is a move, so it should be done in the movement phase... what do you think if we cut in half the movement characteristic of all units that start the Movement Phase on Water Terrain?
Rules Writer 02: Nope, each army will generate 3 points at the third battleround, they should be used in the shooting phase to move 9" to all unit that are on water terrain. 
Lead Writer: Perfection

Boom.

Recognising the jank is not the same disliking a game. If there is one thing that annoys me with AoS at the moment is all the bookkeeping with very little pay-off. For example, I would like it if the heroic/monster phase was the same and just call it "epic moment"-phase or something to denote this is when the heroes and monsters of the battle do their flexing. Second part, pointless 4+ rolls and extra steps such as extra CP or roar. Just have them do the action, done, and move on to the dice rolls we're all here for. 

[Jagged Red Lines]

AoS - in its current iteration - is the best GW game I've ever played, and I've been closely involved in the hobby since 1993.

AoS is fast, fun and full of cinematic moments. The miniatures are gorgeous and the armies are fairly well balanced. The community is warm and positive.

Some people still have strong feelings about AoS, based on the negativity surrounding the end times, coupled with the lack of rules structure in AoS 1.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think a lot of those people were around at the time. So perhaps their opinions are just inherited from the 'common wisdom' with very little critical thought involved. 

Regardless, how they see AoS doesn't impinge on my own enjoyment of the game. Honestly, it's not worth being drawn into arguments about it.

Let them miss out on a great experience because of their ignorance. 

[Tonhel]

1 hour ago, Grungnisson said:

Then we'd need fewer of them in the game. Can't have them all feeling impactful and significant, when some factions have more foot heores than troop units.

True, I also have no idea how to change / improve it. But my two armies are CoS and StD and comparing the combat prowness of the Marshall with envoy versus a Chaos lord. I can't really say that the Chaos lord is so much more terrifying. While background wise there is a huge difference between both.

[Goatforce]

4 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

True, I also have no idea how to change / improve it. But my two armies are CoS and StD and comparing the combat prowness of the Marshall with envoy versus a Chaos lord. I can't really say that the Chaos lord is so much more terrifying. While background wise there is a huge difference between both.

I think that is one of the issues that GW needs to resolve next edition, the standardisation of basic hero characters, who now basically share the same stat block more often than not really is strange. A Chaos Lord or Vampire Lord should be far more terrifying in combat than a human or a goblin.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

4 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

True, I also have no idea how to change / improve it. But my two armies are CoS and StD and comparing the combat prowness of the Marshall with envoy versus a Chaos lord. I can't really say that the Chaos lord is so much more terrifying. While background wise there is a huge difference between both.

It seems like a pretty tricky problem to solve. On the one hand, a Chaos Lord should be a more formidable fighter than a Freeguild Marshall. On the other hand, I think S2D players would not feel excited to pay 200 points for a slow melee beatstick as their basic hero option. Those types of heroes have historcially been pretty bad and have not been widely played.

Personally, I don't really want the old Fantasy level of character customization to return to AoS (if anything I think we should be removing complexity from the game). Maybe a rework of what characters do in AoS and how they interact with troops is necessary. There is a lot less reason to bring small heroes now that unit champions can use command abilities.

[EntMan]

Are we likely to get a New Model Monday reveal today?

I know we had an hour of reveals on Friday/Saturday but I'm greedy for more!